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00:41
@Cerberus, I've already downloaded 18%!
@OtavioMacedo Woohoo!
I'll leave it on for the night.
OK. Thanks!
It's uploading at 25 k.
Not sure why it isn't higher.
I have to go to bed...good luck!
Good night!
Auf wiedersehen!
 
4 hours later…
04:47
0
Q: Where is Welsh on the analytic/synthetic spectrum?

JulieI believe it's traditionally been held to be more on the synthetic side of the spectrum, but why? Are there any quantitative analyses to back this up? Best, Julie

05:11
Good morning.
@Cerberus: Did you remove the files?
 
6 hours later…
10:42
@Gigili Hi!
No I didn't?
Perhaps the browser (Opera) automatically disconnects after a period of time?
In any case I reloaded the tab, let me know whether it works again.
Now it works, thank you.
I'll finish it today, sorry.
Don't worry, take your time.
Otavio is downloading too.
11:23
1
Q: Patterns of accent changes by non-native English speakers

Derek JonesI am looking for a list of 'accent changes', or pronunciation inaccuracies, non-native English speakers commonly make when speaking English words. It would be great of the information had the form of phoneme to phoneme mapping. A tool I wrote attempts to generate words (actually letter sequence...

11:42
@Cerberus I have more than 50% already
Yay!
I see it.
@Gigili It's interesting to see how everyone has his nemesis on SE. But better not fuel the fire.
I like both Rob and David.
What?
I just didn't except him to find that.
Umm, okay.
Yeah, but better just ignore the whole thing.
I am tempted to respond to it too.
But I try not to.
Don't worry, it probably doesn't make any difference.
I suppose nobody wants to tell me what Gigili's deleted comment was? I didn't see it.
12:03
Nothing of consequence.
If he had actually found an instance of me backstabbing him, I would understand his ire. But just mentioning the possibility ... hmmm.
Better just drop it.
from your mouth to the ear of God.
I advised Gigi that it was best not to give any attention to feuds, not even short, polite messages.
Then she headed for the hills. Kind of a hit and run.
12:05
I tend to forget about my enemy when nobody reminds me.
Even though he is horrible, horrible.
Who is your enemy? I promise not to tell anyone.
Aaronut.
Sounds like a biscuit.
@DavidWallace I didn't flee, heh. I never flee.
Thanks.
Or a nut.
He is found in Cooking.
12:09
Kind of arrowroot-gingernut.
Heh.
Or just nut.
FYI, I didn't say anything against you or Robusto.
Anyway, I don't hate Robusto. But that remark just now over in ELU.chat surprised me a little.
I don't he care much about this little feud either, but he was reminded of it.
It'll wear off anyway with time.
@Cerberus Not very nice to talk behind someone's back. Even your enemy.
12:11
@Gigili Well, I would say the exact same things and more to his face.
I don't care if he reads this.
I am allowed to talk about him at all, am I? And I'm not going to lie.
Hey out of the three of us, every pair of us has mentioned the third at some point.
Here?
No, Gigili and I discuss you on random street corners in Tehran.
Oh cool.
@Cerberus Since we're normal friends and I respect your idea, it makes me feel bad about someone I've never talked to. That's what I meant.
12:14
@DavidWallace But I don't understand: of course we mention each other hear: that naturally occurs in conversation?
@Gigili Right, that's true.
That's why it's best to just not discuss enemies. But David asked for his name.
Which I can understand.
I also asked after your nemesis.
Oh, just so I know whom I have to be careful around. Like that guy Kanappan, or however you spell it.
Whose name I forgot, by the way.
He who shall not be named.
Heh.
The best thing is to just always walk away before things get out of hand, even if—especially if—the other guy is crazy.
But it's hard, very hard.
Haha, see I'm not enormously worried about upsetting people here, if they deserve it.
I will probably NEVER meet anyone from the SE community in real life. So what difference can it possibly make to me?
12:18
Well, you're here now.
(although I did encounter one man here quite recently who lives in Wellington, works somewhere that I used to work, and knows a lot of the same people as I)
And it is more pleasant for everybody if there are no fights.
@DavidWallace Ouch! See? There you go.
Fortunately I don't move in circles like SE at all, so I really won't meet anyone.
Move in circles...is that right?
@Cerberus That's OK, he seemed like a nice man.
Yes, "move in circles" is perfect.
Ah OK.
As in "hang out in groups".
It is also used in Dutch and in Latin, a bit.
Makes it confusing.
Kind of. I guess it means the same, but it feels different.
12:21
Right.
Feels kind of classier - a bit more BBC, if you see what I mean.
But it could mean moving in a loop.
@DavidWallace Hehe, yay!
That's how it was intended.
No, that would be "running in circles".
Hmm yeah.
Sometimes my intuition crumbles when the exact same expression is used in Dutch. Then I think, "uhh this similarity is too much, it must be wrong".
@Cerberus that's what I like best about SE
12:23
@OtavioMacedo What exactly?
Here I can find intelligent and interesting people from all over the world
True.
Something I normally don't find in "real life"
hehe
Although they are sometimes a bit too computer oriented for me, hehe...
@OtavioMacedo Ah I don't believe that.
And some of them have too many heads, and are altogther too dog-like.
12:25
See?
I don't know anyone who speaks Latin and Ancient Greek, for example
@DavidWallace I mean, I like computer people, but I also like a bit of a mix.
@OtavioMacedo Hmm well, then I'm at your service!
@Cerberus Too late now to backpedal!
But it's true!
Hmm, like the time you said that people my age need to get their grandchildren to turn their computers on for them?
12:28
@DavidWallace of your age?
How old are you?
I like how cumputery people treat things like discrete systems and value results. On the other hand, they don't always understand the importance of language, or fuzzy knowledge/processes.
@DavidWallace Huh, wha?
in English Language and Usage, Feb 16 at 10:49, by Cerberus
After 40, you're required to ask your grandson to turn on the computer.
Hahaha
40 years is like an eternity for a dog
Right, a thousand ages in thy site and all that.
@DavidWallace Oh, that. Yes.
woof!
12:31
(Psalm 90:4)
@OtavioMacedo Here you can find the most stupid people from all over the world as well.
As in people who are really sick.
Which more likely that what you said.
Now, now, I thought we weren't going to talk about such people here.
I already did it.
feels better now
I think most people on SE that I meet are pretty cool.
Possibly "like minded" is the phrase you seek.
Svaka ptica svome jatu leti.
12:40
Like minded and cool, then?
And what odd language is that?
Umm, cool. A highly subjective word. You could say "nice", "trustworthy", "helpful".
Amazonian.
And interesting.
Amazonian?
Virtual chocolate fish to the first person to post an equivalent to my last comment, in their own first language.
I'd try if it was real.
It's real. I would never ask any of you good people to do the impossible.
12:43
I have lots of virtual chocolate fishes, so I'd give Cerb and Otavio the chance of doing it.
If I knew your address, I'd post you a real one.
Stalker.
> Soort zoekt soort.
@DavidWallace Do I win?
However, as I don't know Gigili's address, I think she's safe from any possible barrage of Antipodean piscine chocolate treats.
@Cerberus Yes, that sounds right.
Yay!
Well done. Just let me find that fish.
12:45
waiting
Oh, crap!
Hmm.
Don't you have a prettier fish?
Huh, told you so. Virtual fishes are worse than expected.
99.9999...9% of the time.
If I understand it right, the Portuguese version would be "cada qual com seu igual"
12:48
@DavidWallace Ah, better. I like it.
@OtavioMacedo Yeah, I think that's probably about right.
دوست داشتن دوست داشتن میاره.
Umm, no.
Whatever.
What does that mean?
I only recently realised that a chocolate fish is a New Zealand concept.
The chocolate fish is a confectionery from New Zealand. These candies are fish-shaped, are 6 to 8 inches in length, and are made of pink or white marshmallow covered in a thin layer of milk chocolate. Several companies make the fish but the most well recognised is Cadbury, which makes foiled and unfoiled variants of the fish with a pink marshmallow centre. Smaller, or "fun-sized" variants of the chocolate fish are colloquially referred to as Sprats, the same name given to shoreline shoals of small fish. For a short period, in the late 1990s - early 2000, there was a Tip Top brand chocolate...
Umm, @Gigili, I don't think that's quite right.
Okay, I won't see the chocolate fish link.
Hello, people.
12:52
@Gigili Does that mean "and they lived happily ever after"?
I think what you posted means something like "you need love to be able to express love"; am I right?
'Ello Ale.
@Alenanno Hey!
Rise before Zod.
Now, kneel before Zod.
:P
No, it means if you like someone they surely will like you or something like that.
12:53
Alenanno, would you like to join the game?
Does anyone of you know the lines I just wrote?
@DavidWallace What game?
No, but I think of Hod, who is the Norse god of cold things.
Hate causes hate - Like causes like.
@DavidWallace Nope... :D Retry!
BRB.
12:54
You get a virtual chocolate fish if you can translate "svaka ptica svome jatu leti" into Italian.
The trick is that I don't tell you what language the original is in.
Ohh marshmellow!
Oh...
@DavidWallace You know how easy it is to translate it...
By the way, while I do that. The lines are taken from a Superman movie (with Christopher Reeve)
Sorry, I mean, give an Italian equivalent. I don't want a translation.
12:55
Ok, I'll try that. :P
No, I take it all back. Hod (or Höðr) is indeed a Norse god; but not of cold things apparently.
Wait, didn't @Cerberus already guess it?
@Alenanno I gave a Dutch translation.
I.e. the equivalent saying in Dutch.
You won then, no?
Right. It was an equivalent, not a translation; which was what I wanted.
Yes, Cerby is the winner, but I have given Alenanno a chance to play too, just for the fun of the game.
13:00
According to WP, the Latin version is "Pares cum paribus facillime congregantur"
Is that right, @Cerberus?
Wikipedia, sorry
@OtavioMacedo Yes, that looks perfect.
Oops, I have to go. That's be BLB.
Bye.
@Gigili See you. :)
13:02
Good night, @Gigili.
@OtavioMacedo That sounds good! Though I have no idea whether it's a fixed expression.
Ah, it's Cicero.
> ognuno con grande facilità frequenta i suoi simili
@Cerberus You translated that by yourself?
@Cerberus It is a recognised proverb, if that's what you mean.
@Alenanno Nope from Wiki.
@DavidWallace Yes, I read that it is.
13:06
@Cerberus LIAR!
@Alenanno Ehh I'll take that as a compliment!
OK, literal translation into English - "every bird flies with its own flock". English equivalent - "birds of a feather flock together". It intrigues me that so many languages have a saying something like this.
Yeah, well, I think you will find a thousand expressions that exist in many languages...
Too bad we don't use the bird metaphor.
Yeah, the Dutch version seemed kind of bare bones to me.
It is nice because of the semi-alliteration.
13:11
I mean, I might say "like seeks like" in English too, but it doesn't sound as feathery.
And the succinct phrasing. And the symmetry.
@Cerberus and the RHYME! Rhemember the RHYME!
@DavidWallace But if that had been a fixed expression, it would have been nice as well.
@DavidWallace Right, that's nice too.
I didn't mean to disparage your little language.
It's kinda cute.
My little language? Now I don't know whether you mean English or Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian.
S-H?
Ah.
English.
13:13
S-H = srpsko-hrvatski, which is what the language used to be called in itself.
Go on, try saying it out loud.
Ah, Serbo-Croatic?
We call it Servo-Kroatisch.
Hmm, H instead of K
Yes, but it's now considered politically incorrect to call it anything that might suggest that Serbians and Croatians speak the same language.
The same thing that happened to the Germanic family
Is this a regular sound correspondence?
Or just a coincidence?
Yeah, H is much heavier in Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian than it is in English - kind of like a Spanish J.
13:16
@DavidWallace Oh, puhlease...
@OtavioMacedo Hmm how do you mean?
PIE k turned into h in Germanic?
@Cerberus Yup
cor > heart
Hey, the official language of Serbia is Serbian; the official language of Croatia is Croatian; Bosnia has three official languages (Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian); but the whole lot are the same freaking language.
@OtavioMacedo Hmm interesting...
cornu = hoorn
@Cerberus there are dozens like this.
Anyway, I think "kro" is the closest Germanic equivalent to the Slavic "hrv".
@DavidWallace Yeah, well, these terms were formed long ago: no telling what their reasons were.
13:20
Hey, they're hedging their bets with that word "diasystem" aren't they!
Hehe.
and "Montenegrin" usually means an obscure dialect that died in the mid-19th century.
The little green patch in Montenegro must represent poorly-educated people.
Aww.
Anyway, those maps are all wrong. They don't show my house.
But the point is, people don't change their language overnight. Serbo-Croat didn't spontaneously change from one language when the first map was drawn into five languages when the second map was drawn. That second map is a political statement, not a linguistic one.
@DavidWallace The first map depicts the actual language (Serbo-Croatian), the second the names people use for their language.
13:29
I gotta go now, guys. Talk later. :)
Bye!
Anyway, as they say in most of Serbia, most of Bosnia, and parts of Croatia and Montenegro - Ja idem da spavam; laku noć.
What is idem?
13:49
@Cerberus it must be a cognate of "ire"
Oh yeah?
"I'm going to sleep; good night"
According to Google Translate.
Ah I see.
I suppose that makes sense.
14:14
@Cerberus did you use the tramway in Paris?
@OtavioMacedo Ehh I don't remember. Probably?
Why do you ask?
The underground is usually better.
Yeah, but I'm going to meet a friend at another hotel
The easiest way is by tram
Oh are you in Paris now?
@OtavioMacedo Oh, then you should take it.
No, but I'll be, tomorrow!
Ahh cool!
By the way, do you have a routing programme (like Tomtom) on your phone that works off line?
Unlike Google Maps.
14:17
Actually, I'll be there on Saturday
And I'm gonna meet that Dutch friend I've talked to you about
@OtavioMacedo I actually don't know: I have only used Tomtom on Windows Mobile. I heard something about Tomtom not having full functionality yet on Android, so maybe test it first.
There are no doubt other (free) programmes.
@OtavioMacedo Oh, wait, who was that again?
A psychologist from Utrecht
She got married recently and has a baby girl
Make sure you get a map of Paris for whatever programme you use. It may be automatically included or it may not. To be 100 % sure, test it with internet connection off.
@OtavioMacedo Oh nice!
Oh, yes, we got a paper backup map, as well
Ask her why it is Nóbelstraat, not Nobèlstraat.
14:21
Noted!
@OtavioMacedo But a digital map is so much more convenient.
Are they pronounced the same?
@OtavioMacedo I know she answer by the way, hehe. I've lived in Utrecht as well.
@OtavioMacedo No: the accent is meant to express stress.
And the unaccented e is /ə/, whereas the accented e is /ɛ/ or something.
If she has lived in Utrecht for a long time, I expect her to say Nóbelstraat.
14:23
Is it the kind of thing that only locals know?
@OtavioMacedo Yes, sort of. But not all locals may know.
Oh, that's nice!
Nóbel = noble; Nobèl = from the Nobel Prize.
The street is named after the "noble" houses/people that used to be there.
@Cerberus She answer?
I've deleted someone from my mind but he's still in my computer.
@Gigili Oops "the answer".
14:25
Let's cry.
cries
Hih.
How long will you stay in Paris?
14:29
Don't forget to bring our souvenir with you.
Oh nice.
Have you decided on a programme yet?
Or will you just do what you feel like doing on a given day?
Isn't it program?
That's American.
Aha.
Oh, the basics: Louvre, Monmartre, Saint-Chapelle, Notre-Dame
Maybe Orsay or Rodin
14:32
Cool.
I wasn't terribly impressed with Montmartre.
And lots of walking through the city
The view from the Sacré Coeur is nice.
And don't forget drinking and eating at terraces!
And buying a small bottle of water for € 6!
@Cerberus I have been told that wine is cheaper than water in Paris hahah
@Gigili what do you want? ;)
@OtavioMacedo Everything from you would be nice.
May I wink @Cerberus? I really needed to. Pah.
But it's nice to not do them.
@OtavioMacedo Haha that may actually be true!
@Gigili You want to wink at me? Sure!
15:41
0
Q: Is there an IPA character for the sympathetic sucking in sound?

KazarkIs there an IPA symbol for the sound you might make when you burn yourself or someone tells you a story about an injury they have—when you suck your breath quickly through your teeth with your tongue pressed forward and to the roof of your mouth? What is the name of this phoneme?

@Cerberus And what exactly do I mean by that wink?
Ask yourself that.
I have no idea, you suggested it.
No, you did.
I did not.
Seems you changed your mind.
15:58
1 hour ago, by Gigili
May I wink @Cerberus? I really needed to. Pah.
That's like : "@Cerberus: May I wink? Because you said to not use emoticons."
I needed it for my previous message.
Oh, then you should have used a comma.
I read that as "may I wink at Cerberus?".
I should not.
What you meant was, "may I wink, Cerberus?".
You should be more careful.
16:00
NOU
No, I meant what I said.
Then comma!
winks at you
You just want me to wink at you, so you interpret everything as you like it to be.
Comma!
Never!
16:06
,
 
3 hours later…
19:06
Umm, Mr.Cerb?
The file sharing is down again
@Gigili Hmm it works when I try it.
Can you refresh the page and try again?
Umm, I did.
Let me try again then.
Okay, solved.
Thank you.
19:22
The word "risk" may have Persian origins: languagehat.com/archives/004578.php
2
19:44
Oh that's pretty cool.
@OtavioMacedo By the way, the Woordenboek der Nederlandsche Taal already had this in 1916.
De oorsprong van deze woorden is niet zeker: gewoonlijk houdt men de in het Spaansch en Portugeesch voorkomende beteekenis: klip voor oorspronkelijk en leidt het woord af van lat. resecare: afsnijden (in 't ital. resecare, risecare, risegare; ital. risico staat dan voor *riseco); de eigenlijke beteekenis zou dan zijn: een als 't ware afgesneden, steile klip, die als zoodanig een gevaar voor de zeevaart vormt, en vandaar bij overdracht: gevaar. Volgens een andere meening zouden de genoemde woorden ontleend zijn aan arab. rizq: noodlot. Zie KORTING n°. 7995. Bij ons komt het woord het eerst v
So either from Arabic rizq or Latin resecare.
But that modern guy probably has good arguments.

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