Software Recommendations

8:17 PM

I think that is a very elitist approach, and will leave people helpless and disappointed. But the majority disagrees with me, even this early… — mirabilos 18 mins ago

Can I get some input from others on this so it's not perceived as just me vs him please?

Izzy

@kalina Oh. Did he also make a guess as to when that would be?

kalina

@Izzy nope, it will happen though, don't worry

Gilles

@Izzy a few (less than 6–8) weeks into public beta

Angelo Neuschitzer

How long is public beta?

kalina

"as long as it lasts"

Izzy

8:21 PM

@Gilles Yuck. I hope we're not getting lost until then (follow back the train of replies: talking about the tag synonyms here: we cleaned one up, hoped for synonym, got none, tag got populated again)

In that case, it makes no sense cleaning up tag synonyms now.

Gilles

@Izzy that early, we don't need many synonyms

Angelo Neuschitzer

@kalina Okay...

Gilles

It's ambiguous tags that we need to watch for, because you can only handle these by a mass retagging

Izzy

@Gilles If you leave them separate tags, both will be used in parallel.

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy yeah but in public beta new users can't create new tags iirc.

Gilles

8:22 PM

@Izzy but that's easy to fix at any time

Izzy

If you clean one up and hope the "synonym-to-be" dies: dream on...

kalina

@Izzy it's ok, the post isn't going anywhere, we just need to keep track of them

Gilles

@AngeloNeuschitzer yup, 150 rep to create tags in public beta

kalina

we're talking a handful of clicks to merge tags

it's not a huge deal

Izzy

@Gilles Didn't speak about difficulties (a mod always can "merge+synonym" in one step). All I said was: Makes no sense to "re-tag" things we want to be synonyms later :)

@kalina I know. I just hate unfinished work #D

2

kalina

8:24 PM

work is always unfinished

which is why I can create a yearly tag cleanup post on Arqade

Angelo Neuschitzer

@kalina You mean the site will always need mods? Maan there goes my anarchist dreams of a hierarchy-free SE site...

(jk)

Izzy

8:56 PM

LOL

Warning: this site is currently in private beta for at least a few more days.

A few more days. Good to know. I thought we'd go public today?

Gilles

so did I

where did you see this message?

Izzy

Looks like we were wrong...

@Gilles picking any question link here, and pasting it into a different browser (where I was not logged-in with).

Gilles

Oh, that's a generic message

it doesn't count down or anything

Izzy

And the "at least a few more days" makes me skeptical for a "coming-out" today or tomorrow...

Gilles

it doesn't mean anything. The message won't change until the site goes public.

kalina

9:46 PM

maybe SR just went public?

yes it did

Nick Wilde

I just got a badge

a shiny silver one

Prepare for the onslaught

man the walls

load the cannons

we'll probably have to shoot them politely a few times

Undo

I arrive.

How much public beta drama did I miss?

Gilles

None yet. The site's been public for minutes, and nothing's happening!

Undo

Uhmm... ok....

Odd

Izzy

@kalina Indeed! Uh-oh... Where's the poo-storm?

OMG...

kalina

9:58 PM

we're not in Google's index yet

give it a day or so

and then... EXPLOSIONS

Izzy

@Gilles Yeah, quite disappointing #D

Undo

@kalina this

kalina

this... is the calm before the storm

Undo

I lost edit privs ;(

kalina

savour this moment

Undo

9:59 PM

We need to get our mods before the storm hits.

kalina

@Undo me too

Gilles

@kalina but we are on SO/SU's radar. There were already flags to migrate to SR last week

kalina

true enough @Gilles

Undo

How did Will describe mods? Sh*t umbrellas?

We need some of those

kalina

calm... before... the storm

*deep breaths*

Izzy

10:01 PM

To the weapons! Ready the lasers! Sith coming... sooon...

Oh...

And spelling errors.

OK, again:

@Seth coming... #D

Ooops...

Undo

I'm trying to decide if we should go around promoting the site.

Seth

I was summoned?

kalina

@Undo I think you were right in the meta post we made on promoting the site

We should just leave it be and see how it plays out for the time being

Undo

yeah

kalina

the moment we get indexed my flappy bird question will pull in the crowds

^_^

Undo

10:04 PM

If anything, we need to go around to SU/SO chatrooms telling people not to migrate crap to us.

Seth

I'm not sure that yeah was for me...

Izzy

@Seth Sorry, forgot to remove the "@" after auto-complete... But as you're here: We're manning all gates, public beta has started!

Seth

I can't edit questions anymore D:

kalina

@Undo we made a post on that already too, I think it just needs to be stuck to

Undo

kk

Seth

10:05 PM

@Izzy AH right. I noticed that because I got the beta badge lol.

Izzy

@Seth Required rep doubled, I suppose...

Seth

@Izzy yeah it did.

Undo

This means I can suggest edits again!

Izzy

@Seth Uh? Checking...

Undo

looks for things to suggest

Izzy

10:06 PM

@Seth Right! Me too :)

Guess we all did :)

Seth

Yep.

Nick Wilde

all my edits are only suggested again <sob> back to being treated like an infant :p

Caleb

0

A: Is it okay to ask for alternatives?

No. This is not a good platform for just browsing for alternative software. Recommending a piece of software for a certain task is inherently different that suggesting alternatives to a known piece of software. I suggest that this site will work reasonably well for the former but very poorly for...

This is going to go down hard.^^^

Obviously I'm late to the party, but I think if this isn't set as a ground rule this is going to be choas.

Undo

agreed

Caleb

The world of "alternatives" is not something I think we can cope with in QnA format, esp not when you factor in the mobile app world. We'd get past Photoshop and iTunes and MS Office soon enough, but it's an eternal shifting landscape.

kalina

10:12 PM

Are you classifying this as "asking for an alternative", even though it clearly specifies requirements?

Braiam

lets do this: if as long as I remove the "alternatives" is still a good question, yes

3ventic

I think directly asking for an alternative is bad, but using an existing software many people know to give a better idea about your feature requirements can be very good.

Caleb

@kalina If the answer you are looking for is what would populate the list on alternativeto.net, yes I am suggesting that.

kalina

Regardless of the word "alternative", my question contains a list of requirements that would make it on topic

3ventic

If you removed mentions to flappy bird and alternatives, it would be a valid question, though it would be poorer in my opinion

But flappy bird would actually be an answer

Undo

10:16 PM

Requirement: Must not be flappy bird.

Simple

kalina

well it can't be flappy bird, flappy bird was removed from the market

3ventic

Google Play is barely the only place to get apps for android..

It's very easy to find flappy bird from other sites

Izzy

@3ventic Ack.

3ventic

iOS isn't as lucky though

Caleb

@kalina Your list of requirements is "works kinda like and has a similar experience to X". That isn't criteria that narrows it down to anything that wouldn't make a flat list such as the database at alternativeto.net.

Izzy

10:18 PM

@kalina And somebody already went for the brand, the replacement app ready. Was on the news today, so that Flappy might turn up again soon...

Gilles

@Caleb hmm, I think you're going too far in the other direction

As usual we have at least two threads on the same topic

mine is here:

4

Q: How to ask for an alternative to some software

I have software X and I like it. However, I want an extra feature that X doesn't provide. Or I want to run X on a different platform. How can I ask for an alternative to X?

@Caleb What do you think of this ^^^^? It's strongly inspired by the “alternative to Windows software X” questions we often get on U&L

kalina

@Gilles It's a good question but it doesn't deal with the fact that the first ever question asked on meta has a +20ish answer saying alternatives are acceptable

In the event Caleb's answer becomes the top answer, that question is irrelevant

Gilles

@kalina the thing is, I think “is it ok” is the wrong question, the right question is “when is it ok”

kalina

hmmm

So you are in favour of them being on topic in principle provided they meet a specific quality requirement?

3ventic

If the question is "is X ok?", the answer usually is "Yes, but only when done like this, this or this"

kalina

10:23 PM

We have a lot of specific quality requirements to define and fine tune in the next month

Caleb

> You need to say which features of X matter.

My contention is that if the list of features that you list as "these matter" is just the main features the original software is best known for, you haven't made it any more specific than a basic lookup function, for which a cross referenced database has an advantage over a sea of separate questions. Those are the questions I'm picking on here.

Gilles

@kalina I think that alternatives questions should meet the same quality requirements as others

kalina

@Gilles Do you think it's worth erm

you know our question quality question

Gilles

but there's some specific advice to be given, to achieve this quality

kalina

8

Q: What is required for a question to contain "enough information"?

This is the question edition of What is required for an answer to be high quality? One of the key problems that I see Software Recommendations having, is people asking extremely vague and simple questions that ultimately boil down to one of the two close reasons we see on the rest of the network...

discussion question-quality questions faq-proposed

Braiam

10:24 PM

as long as they put a list of requirements I say that is ok, if the only requirement is that it should be an alternative, then no

kalina

Do you think it's worth having multiple answers on that

saying things like

"Question type: <whatever>" "Requires: <whatever>"

more comprehensive, of course

Braiam

also when you ask for alternatives you also are giving the potential answerers information to compare with their recommendation

kalina

but in this instance, an answer saying "This is how you ask for alternatives"

Gilles

@kalina I think it's better to have separate threads

kalina

rather than scattering all our policies all over the place?

ok

Gilles

10:25 PM

we have two starting points: one on writing a good question, one on writing a good answer

3ventic

That's why we have faq, no?

kalina

To keep all of this under control

Gilles

if there are other important threads on specific kinds of questions/answers, they should be linked

kalina

@3ventic we don't yet

3ventic

The tag exists

Gilles

10:26 PM

@3ventic faq-proposed so far

3ventic

Whether it's used or not is another issue

kalina

To keep all of this under control, anything important that we feel is going to form the basis of FAQs should get tagged faq-proposed

3ventic

looks at Arqade mods

kalina

and any future instances of people asking identical questions should get closed

we're starting to get to the point where we're getting duplicates on meta

and I feel we should focus our discussions on the existing questions rather than reprovoking the discussions with duplicates

if you know what I mean

Braiam

wait, what is the current drama? didn't we discussed the alternatives already?

kalina

10:28 PM

eh? There is no drama

Braiam

oh, ok

Gilles

@Caleb but that can be ok. Hmmm, something that's missing in my answer (because I didn't even consider it) is that if you're looking for alternatives to X, then X shouldn't be a valid answer!

@Braiam we're discussing alternatives to alternatives

kalina

@Gilles yeah for sure

Izzy

Whoa! 25+ and I can "suggest synonyms", and can vote on such suggestions...

kalina

@Gilles unless there is a new version or something like that (perhaps a plugin) for the original application that the asker overlooked, perhaps?

Braiam

10:30 PM

do we have trusted users?

Izzy

And yuck: Due to going public, there's nobody left to approve tag wiki edits... (requires 2k rep)

@Braiam No

4k rep required for that.

Undo

@Izzy Well, we have our beloved CMs

Izzy

Olli is ranking highest at ~1.3k, I'm closing up to 1.2k ranking 2nd.

Braiam

btw, what I do with this? is freemiun

Gilles

Caleb

10:31 PM

@Braiam I missed the first round and disagree with the outcome, so I'm hashing it over again.

Izzy

@Undo I hope they'll care for that. Long way to 2k, at least another week...

And I cannot approve my own edits, obviously ;)

@Gilles LOL

Caleb

This is pretty good advice but I think it fails in not addressing the (normative) case for this sort of question where the list of desired features/criteria just happens to be basically the exact set of features that the original software is known for. This is a very common case and I have argued under another meta question that these are better served by a cross referenced alternative database. In the (less common) event that the list of features that matter to you is a small subset of the original or unusual, then this advice applies. — Caleb 2 mins ago

Braiam

nooooooooooo, I lost close privileges!

ok, I better answer my questionary

kalina

@Izzy suggested edits queue is only 1k, btw

Izzy

@kalina Yeah, at least for a while this would be a good idea.

Btw: Someone's approving the wiki edits already: committed one, and no 5 min later it was approved :)

Gilles

10:44 PM

@kalina but it's 1500 to review suggested edits to tag wikis

@Izzy 1.5k actually

We have our first public beta post!

0

A: OS X PostgreSQL client with a GUI?

At work I am using DB Visualizer. This is a database manipulation tool that supports a large number of database systems, including PostgreSQL. It is written in Java, which means it is cross-platform compatible. I have experience with the free Linux version of it, but the website states it support...

Wow, if they're all like this then our concerns about quality were totally unwarranted

ok, but the guy has been in the private beta

Izzy

@Gilles When I looked 5 min ago, it said 2k. Or did I mess something up?

Oh yes, looks like I did

2k is mod-tools. Wow. That is usually 10k on a "mature" SE site...

kalina

@Izzy welcome to beta sites

Izzy

@kalina LOL Just killed a tag #D "file-converter" is much too broad. The only Q wanted to convert audio/video only, so → "media-converter" :)

Now the latter tag has 2 Qs :)

kalina

11:00 PM

\o/

Izzy

Second kill: "file-size". Wow, almost WoW the kill-rate :)

As the specialist is here: @kalina Looking for First Person, Physics based, Puzzle games has a tag "first-person" (sounds like "ego-shooter"). Do we need that, or shall I remove it?

kalina

I don't know, I don't like feature tags to begin with

the community disagrees with me

Izzy

Me neither, but gaming is not my speciality (all but, to be true)

Angelo Neuschitzer

I'm seriously unsure on how I should tag my question: softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/1340/…

Gilles

Ah, this is the true first post of the public beta:

0

A: Close Quarters Realistic FPS

I haven't come across anything that matches the complexity that is ArmA in a CQC shooter, but TAKEDOWN: Red Sabre seems like it might fit your first lot of criteria to a degree. It was released and marketed as a thinking-man's shooter, and an answer for all the hardcore tactical FPS fans out ther...

kalina

11:03 PM

first-person would be no different to... finds example

why do we have a app-store ?

Izzy

OK, I'll keep my fingers off gaming stuff.

@kalina Makes sense.

kalina

@Izzy for... what?

Izzy

At least on Android. There are plenty of "alternative stores" to Google play.

Undo

@kalina IMO nuke it

kalina

the equivalent would be bricks-and-mortar-store

Izzy

11:03 PM

And specific apps to them.

kalina

for "going to a shop"

both tagged questions are for apple devices

Izzy

And apps to maintain them (if you run your own, e.g. for a company, or specific department, or group, or...)

kalina

its current use offers nothing

Angelo Neuschitzer

I thought I voted to remove "app-store" already.

kalina

I'm going to remove it nowo

Izzy

11:05 PM

@kalina Uh. Not my area. I usually eat apples, or make juice of them...

Angelo Neuschitzer

@kalina Go for it

Izzy

Humm... And I thought the mobile stuff was my proficience...

So that would be my turn!

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Hurry!

Izzy

OK?

OK. go for it #D

We can re-create it when needed. Those apps are rarely asked for.

kalina

anyway first-person would be like ergonomic or offline

which are also both bad tags that need to die

Izzy

11:07 PM

At least on Android, the majority sticks with GooglePlay, or uses Amazon. Cannot speak for Apple & Co, of course.

kalina

@Izzy yes but, the location you download from should be stated as a requirement in the question, or in the answer as text

not as a tag

and is pretty much irrelevant for Apple devices

Izzy

YUCK! Well, good kill. In that context, "app-store" makes no sense (meta: "must be in the... App-Store")

kalina

I personally think first-person is a bad tag

since it's a genre tag

Izzy

@kalina Exactly. Hence: Meta-Tag, and kill. I'm just approving your edit.

kalina

the sort of tags I'd expect to see on a game-rec would be:

Izzy

11:09 PM

Same for "ergonomic".

kalina

game os-tag gratis (possibly)

everything else should be stated in requirements on the question

Izzy

YUCK! Thank you for reviewing 20 suggested edits today; come back in 50 minutes to continue reviewing.

Sorry, @kalina – cannot approve the other two...

kalina

you'll have 20 to do in 50 minutes, don't worry

Izzy

No. In 50min I'm in bed.

Undo

;(

kalina

11:11 PM

well they can wait, there's nothing urgent

Izzy

Luckily I didn't make this the rule: "Whenever out of votes, go sleep".

kalina

do we tag "I want an icon editor" questions with icon and graphics ?

Izzy

@kalina wait. didn't we have something more specific?

kalina

I don't remember

I'll leave those for now then

Izzy

graphic-design and image-editor do exist.

Angelo Neuschitzer

11:12 PM

(My question has 3 upvotes with 4 views. Cool I should keep that up)

Izzy

You mean: the votes should keep up with the views :)

Angelo Neuschitzer

@Izzy Yes. And for all things I post :)

kalina

@Izzy and then icon becomes a feature tag

but icon editors are an actual thing

Izzy

@kalina Meta again, yes.

kalina

so does it fall under image/graphics editors at all?

Izzy

11:14 PM

What is an icon? Isn't it a "tiny image"?

too specific for a separate tag IMHO.

kalina

sure enough it is just a tiny image

but since we allow application-type tags

Izzy

so: image-editor should be fine :)

kalina

and icon-editor is an application-type

Izzy

OK, gotta go now. Good night, or the next kill is me (by my wife)

kalina

lol

nn :P

Gilles

11:39 PM

@kalina Are you removing the mobility tag?

kalina

There is no need for it on a question tagged with maps gps etc

Gilles

I wasn't sure about this one. It is an application domain, but not an application type.

kalina

I could be wrong - what do you mean?

like, applications used on the move?

Gilles

yes

kalina

yeah, I really think we should stick to application-types

Gilles

11:41 PM

since I've traveled with a smartphone, I've discovered that this is indeed a thing

Braiam

what do you carry that needs to move?

kalina

both questions that have mobility also have maps and gps

seems to me like three tags for basically the same thing

Braiam

depending of the gadget you carry it may need an specific tag

Gilles

gps is anecdotic on my question

kalina

and I'm still not sure whether we need navigation instead of all of those

Gilles

11:42 PM

mobility has to do with location, but there's a lot more to it than maps

kalina

I'm just removing the obvious ones in the first pass while writing up a list of everything else

Gilles

e.g. train schedules are mobility but not maps

kalina

train schedules... hmmm

Braiam

mm... wait, as far it goes, you only need windows phone and android tags there. android is already know for being a OS for the run same with WP

kalina

wouldn't be navigation either

Braiam

11:43 PM

navigation might be right

kalina

nah navigation wouldn't cover train schedules

@Gilles Is there anything else that mobility covers that the other tags don't?

Gilles

@Braiam not on softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/82/… or softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/143/… , they aren't about navigation

kalina

if not, train schedules could be treated as a requirement

Braiam

I think that either way is overly specific/general (as it fits a specific situation, but there could be several similar but not related) and we could not decide exactly how should be used

kalina

for example, @Gilles, I have just removed first-person puzzle multiplayer etc from game questions

because stuff like that should be in the question body rather than a tag

Braiam

11:48 PM

ok, if we need to write a tag except which would be the body?

kalina

@Braiam hm?

question body is the box you type your question into

question title > question body > question tags > answer bodies

Braiam

@kalina what would be the content of the tag excerpt?

kalina

@Braiam for which tag?

Braiam

whatever we are creating... (or removing for what matters)

kalina

I'm creating tags in the format of "Use this tag when seeking recommendations for <criteria>"

since that's what Robert Cartaino wanted

if the tag is obscure, I'm also putting a short explanation of what the tag means after that sentence

and then putting a description in the main tag wiki

with #Related tags <list of tags> at the end if required

that way, when you hover over a tag it pops up and says "use this tag for... stuff"

danijelc

11:55 PM

yes that looks good kalina

kalina

0

Q: Program to auto crop images into headshots

I currently have to take an image provided to me and crop it down to be considered a headshot. The problem is that this could be a few hundred photos a week. Does anyone know how to do this automatically, or even make it quicker? Surly my company is not the only company that does this on an enter...

image-editor image-processing productivity

This seems to me like it's missing a list of actual requirements

danijelc

just writting commnet there

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