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00:01
Aww... yay for crashing a DC right at 4:00.
I hate doing svn update. I cross my fingers and say "please don't conflict... please don't conflict... please don't conflict...". Nothing like relief to see a bunch of green "merged" entries
Today though, not my day
"Conflicted! Conflicted! Conflicted!"
Graaahhhhhhh
@MarkHenderson outch that sucks
@MarkHenderson svn resolve --recursive --accept theirs-full .?
@MarkHenderson git!
Shamefully, we're still using CVS
00:12
Woo
2.6.32-358.0.1.el6.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Feb 27
06:06:45 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
No problems
@Tanner that's no big deal
demote, format, reinstall, promote
:)
@MDMarra Do you mean "demote, home, beers, sleep, work, coffee, format, reinstall, promote"?
no, beer then demote
in honor of your fallen DC
@MDMarra Sold. On my way home now. :P
00:33
This is so bad... How do you guys handle routine patching?
@freiheit And lose all my changes? Nah I will go through and resolve the conflicts by hand
@MichaelHampton We have 16,000 revisions in SVN, so not really interested in changing tbh
@MarkHenderson Um, that's irrelevant?
@MichaelHampton It is if I don't want to have to fuck around to go back through different revisions
I don't see why you can't keep 16,000 revisions in git?
Can you get them from SVN and into git?
00:43
@ewwhite Hey man. You get to a certain age and start to realize that wood is wood.
335
Q: How to migrate SVN with history to a new Git repository?

Milan BabuškovI read git manual, FAQ, Git - SVN crash course, etc. and they all explain this and that, but nowhere can you find a simple instruction like: SVN repository in: svn://myserver/path/to/svn/repos Git repository in: git://myserver/path/to/git/repos git-do-the-magic-svn-import-with-history svn://my...

Anyway pointless discussion, of the 10,000 things I'm meant to do changing version controls is not one of them
@MarkHenderson It's pretty stinking trivial, really.
@MarkHenderson Heh, well then. When you decide you want merges that actually work, reconsider it.
Or be able to commit more than 1KB worth of changes without your repository shitting itself mid-transaction.
00:45
Indeed. The more I use git, the more I hate svn.
@MichaelHampton Can you convince git to do "git commit" and "git push" all at once all the time, so that the "primary" repo (that actually gets backed up) always has everything? because requiring developers/users to run two things where they can barely be convinced to do one now is a disaster waiting to happen...
It's also one more thing to learn and train everyone else in
@MichaelHampton I've never used either with more than 3 users (and only 3 months worth back in 2005 was more than 1 user). So the vast majority of advantages are lost on me. Still much nicer.
And, believe it ornot, we have one piece of software that uses SCC version control, and there's an SVN SCC plugin, but I don't know about a git one
I really like being able to bundle up my commits and do one big push.
00:48
Hrm, apparently there is
@freiheit If you really need that, then I suppose you could do it. But you probably don't need that.
By the same people that do our SVN SCC plugin
@MichaelHampton I can barely convince certain people to run a commit at all right now. On unbackedup (or, well, barely backed up) dev boxes
@freiheit Ah, so the issue is backups?
As for developers who don't want to actually develop, there's a good word for them. "Fired".
@MichaelHampton Backups, training complexity, etc...
@MichaelHampton that's a lovely fantasy world
00:51
@freiheit Yeah, I know. If all the shit developers actually got fired... oh, what a lovely world that would be.
No more VBScript?
@ScottPack We'll have no more COBOL many years before no more VBscript.
True that.
"My grandfather wrote this code... when he was your age."
I'm about this close to doing up a "How does DNS work" canonical question.
01:14
Wasn't there some tool that did this?
0
Q: Cloning and deploying existing Linux builds via Chef, Puppet, etc

dynodanoIs Chef, Puppet, etc able to be pointed at an existing Linux server and suck down 100% of the 'stuff' that would be required to build the server OS/package-versions/custom-files/etc including the build order? (Guessing not, but believe I was lead to believe this from a talk I heard last year.)

Name is completely slipping my mind, and googling anything with "configuration" is just a mess of puppet/chef/sccm
Blueprint?
That's the one.
I'll let you drop the answer on that since you actually remembered it, heh
Oh, I suspect it'll be a zero score accepted answer...
@MichaelHampton Too late, I upvoted it.
Damn, how am I ever going to get that Unsung Hero badge?
01:19
@MichaelHampton No chance. I think it's really only doable when you're at like 50 answers
@JoelESalas maintainece windows
this scared the shit out of me
@MDMarra Do you develop rollback plans, etc?
02:02
@MichaelHampton After kernel upgrade
Module compiled with module API=20100525
PHP compiled with module API=20090626
These options need to match
Seriously?! How the heck do you publish a mod_* port without listing Apache as a dependency?!
I think you mean PHP? Then again mod_php is in Apache...
mod_php isn't part of Apache in FreeBSD
It's an option of the lang/php5 port
Oh, this is FreeBSD? Why did I get pinged then?
I didn't ping you.
I think @Mossy has a completely different issue. =]
02:04
@mossy Clearly more than the kernel was upgraded.
02:22
@MichaelHampton hiss... Blueprint
@ewwhite It didn't work well for you?
@MichaelHampton it's so-so...
like all auto-generated things
arf
@ChrisS why do people use Apache from ports?
goddamn headache that is right there
@voretaq7 I DO!
I need that -O3 flag to squeeze the last 0.06% performance gain out of my server.
Where's that link to the Gentoo ricers?
02:35
@ScottPack There's nothing fun about unrolling loops :(
I'm compiling because the package for 9.0 is still on 2.2.21 and I'd like to get on 22 or newer (2.2.24 is in the ports)
and I can -O3 my hand-compiled artisanal Apache
^Oh Yeah! That's my server right there baby!
busted headlight and all
@voretaq7 It is easier to eat fruit rollups when they're not unrolled.
@ScottPack this is true
but you really can't eat fruit by the foot unless you unroll it
I mean it's just not fun....
also now I want fruit-flavored foodlike sheet product
02:40
> "What is it about Gentoo that people value in a Web server? It may seem crude to ask that question, because by itself Gentoo Linux is one of the most advanced GNU/Linux distributions available."
even though I know it won't taste anything like I remember from when I was a kid, and my soul and childhood will suffer yet another crushing blow
Funny. You've a hankerin for fruit-flavored foodlike sheet product. I'm hankerin for an Old Fashion.
That sounds good too... Just finished my cran-whiskey though
Cran-whiskey?! What is this sorcery?
2
Nice
> "Gentoo does help stop programmers from being lazy, so they write completely airtight code. That can only be a good thing, whichever way you look at it."
02:43
@ScottPack gentoo makes the baby jesus burn down the manger.
(it was a poorly optimized birthing environment! START AGAIN!)
@voretaq7 Gentoo makes the barn burn itself down with baby Jesus in the manger.
@jscott 2 parts Honey Jack - 1 part Cranberry cocktail
@ScottPack I have a vague recollection of similar compiling-it-makes-it-better trollings on alt.os.linux.slackware about 15ish years ago.
So would that make Jesus' birth a stage2 install?
@ChrisS This, this is what I must try. Thanks for the suggestion.
02:45
@ScottPack Gabriel was the boostrap
@jscott Oh Slackware. The only distro ballsy enough to pass "tar -zxf" off as a package manager.
2
ding-dong Express train to Hell - this train is going express, this train will not stop at limbo or purgatory. Once again, this is the express train to Hell. Next stop, Hell.
@ScottPack SlackOff Linux?
The only *nix operating system I couldn't install
@ScottPack Yup. Surprisingly, of all the distros in the CheapBytes Mega Linux pack (or whatever it was called) I bought lo' those many years ago, Slack was the first I was able to cobble into a "usable" X state.
Slackware was the first thing I tried. Wow that was a painful face into a brick wall experience.
@jscott Slackware was the first thing I tried. It trashed my boot sector and overwrote about a third of my Windows partition (in the middle, somehow).
Compared to that the 2.1 FreeBSD install process was sex with a supermodel
(so I guess that makes Slackware's installer sex with a garbage disposal)
02:48
@voretaq7 Oh yeah, of course. I seem to remember something like 27[?] floppies required to reinstall Win95.
@voretaq7 That sounds uncomfortable, but after long enough anything start to look attractive.
@ScottPack Standards: I have them
(this is why I don't get laid)
@jscott I thought it was more like a dozen...
@ChrisS I have to be honest, I don't remember. I just remember the pain of getting to somewhere deep in the stack and then being asked to re-insert disk 2.
Oh yeah... It would go 1, 2, 3, 4 ,5 ,6 2, 3, 2, 7, 2, 8, 3, 9, 2, 2, 10, 11, 12, 2
They were some weird format too, more than 1.44MB disks.
@ChrisS 1.45 I think
13! I was off by less than 10%
@ScottPack They could have notched the other side!
02:52
@jscott I slipped that one into a presentation I gave on Data Disposal.
@voretaq7 I'm pretty sure it was noticeably more, like 1.75MB or something
@ChrisS i know it wasnt 2.88
@ScottPack Did it garner laughs or jeers (for Win8) ?
@voretaq7 No, they used some custom floppy driver to squeeze extra tracts onto a normal floppy...
1.63MB per Floppy, found it.
02:54
@jscott That slide was examples of magnetic media, so it also had a hard drive, reel-to-reel, zip, etc. After about a minute a couple of people chuckled.
>512 Bytes * 18 (sectors) * 80 (tracks) * 2 (sides) = 1.474.560 Bytes = 1.40 MB
>512 Bytes * 21 (sectors) * 82 (tracks) * 2 (sides) = 1.763.328 Bytes = 1.68 MB
@JoelESalas for security patches? No
EPEL is gross; it is nice to see this getting baked into sensible production OSes like RedHat and Debian. — Suparious 14 mins ago
EPEL is gross? Anybody know what this guy is smoking?
Patches get rolled out to dev and test. Then a few days later they hit prod during a window
What's an EPEL?
03:06
@MDMarra Is it automated from end to end?
@ChrisS Extra Packages for Enterprise Linux
"Extra"?
@JoelESalas where I am now? No. Where I set it up before? Yes
@MDMarra one more: how did you detect issues with the patches?
Monitoring
Lots and lots of nagios
In a mostly Windows environment, SCCM can automate patching as well
@ChrisS Stuff not in the main RHEL or CentOS repos.
03:11
@ShaneMadden I sorta get that... But, why isn't it in the repos?
@ChrisS The repos represent the main distribution. EPEL is more like ubantos universe or multiverse
@ChrisS Because RHEL only includes what RHEL builds, and CentOS mimics. It's fairly common to be setting up some software and run into a dependency that needs to be installed from EPEL.
Ok... So these are the red-headed stepchildren who don't get to eat in the fancy dining room... But why?
So, RedHat knows about these packages... Lists them in some sort of DB branded as EPEL.. But doesn't build the software, and doesn't distribute it?? Or something like that??
And this software is commonly required for various tasks/other software?
@ChrisS Not exactly, you can install Apache, MySQL, etc etc without needing anything from EPEL
@ChrisS I don't think CentOS even lists EPEL in the yum config. You need to add the repo manually -- at least I did a while back.
03:18
EPEL is maintained by the Fedora project, so it's community-driven (possibly funded by Red Hat)
But you run into EPEL requirements enough to know how to manually add a repo without looking at the man page
@ChrisS EPEL is a separate entity, community supported (but still a part of the Fedora project). You can get your package added to EPEL if it's stable and popular. You cannot get it added to the RHEL repos, they only include what they include.
Need mercurial instead of git? Off to EPEL for you! Need some php library that was included in RHEL5 but not in RHEL6 anymore? Off to EPEL with you!
@ChrisS There's all kinds of repos you need, not just EPEL. We maintain our own internal repo, and we use Puppet Labs' puppet repo, IUS has newer LAMP packages, and so forth
Doesn't RHEL decide what to includes based on popularity?
@ChrisS It's a shadowy cabal of hooded figures locked up in a forbidding tower
03:20
@JoelESalas You're familiar with whomever runs Fedora?
@ChrisS Red Hat sponsors it
I'm really not trying to be difficult... I haven't done the Linux thing in ~15 years.
You know the relationship between fedora and RHEL right?
This all just sounds confusing as hell...
thats step 1
03:22
@MDMarra I've picked up that Fedora is a community run project with some economic assistance from RHEL.
Fedora is upstream to RHEL
I ran RH back before they did the EL thing
Generally fedora releases fast and furious. At some point, RHEL freezes a fedora branch and forks it to make it the next RHEL. Fedora keeps ticking during this time
So fedora packages are usually much newer than RHEL because of the testing/packaging/etc that RHEL does
Ok, that sorta makes sense.
so EPEL is a sort of compromise. You get some of the newer Fedora stuff but its not official rhel
Wow chat on an iPad is awful
03:24
I can at least compare that to FreeBSD's -current, -stable, and -release branches.
I had "sources" get autocorrected to "fjords" today.
Found it
PDO_sqlite
@MDMarra It's the iPad =]
its the ajax
What's a PDO_sqlite?
03:25
not sure whose fault :)
@MDMarra Yes, but EPEL won't provide newer versions of a package that's in RHEL, just additional packages.
right, didn't mean to imply otherwise
server stuff
Just caught a mouse.
My cat did, actually, but I trapped it under a cup and brought it outside
@Basil My wife once woke me up screaming at 3am terrified, white as a sheet "I SAW A MOUSE I SAW A MOUSE I SAW A MOUSE"
I had to take every single piece of furniture out of the bedroom, all the clothes, everything to try and find a mouse that I wasn't even sure existed
03:37
@MarkHenderson If I'd been asleep, my wife's screaming and running around would have woken me up :P
Took me about an hour, but eventually I found the fucker hiding and I crushed him with my foot. I must not have stomped hard enough because he spent 5 minutes going "Eeeeep! Eeeep! Eeeep! Eeeep!" and now my wife is scarred by the sound of the mouse suffocating on its own blood
Good news if I ever need to lay a guilt trip on her I just make that noise and she throws something at me, which means I win
haha
I don't think I'm country enough to crush something with my foot. But I took the cup out to the train station and put him in the garbage there- he'll freeze, hopefully that's more humane.
@Basil I once slept through our newborn crying bloody murder about 50cm away from my head - my wife shook me awake and goes "Its your turn this time!". Me thinking she was overreacting goes "Shit, he's only just started, let him go for a few minutes at least" "HE HAS BEEN CRYING AND SCREAMING FOR 30 MINUTES YOU FUCKING SHITHEAD"
@Basil I was wearing shoes, but my father in law goes after them bare foot
@MarkHenderson heh, I've had that experience- new father ears.
@Basil I'm just a really really deep sleeper who is really good at clearing out background noise and whining
03:42
@MarkHenderson I went fishing once and had trouble killing a fish. I decided to try and man up and went hunting with a friend of mine- of course, the first thing I shoot I manage to badly injure but not kill, so I ended up frantically searching reeds by a river for it to put it out of its misery
In the end, my much more experienced friend found it first and wrung its neck for me
We live in a strange time and place- we're apex predators who aren't used to killing things to be eaten
@Basil Never been hunting. I don't think going out with the express interest of killing things is my thing
@MarkHenderson It's not mine either, but if I wasn't willing to kill something I wanted to eat, I felt logically inconsistent.
I once dazzled a family of kittens in the middle of the road at 3am with my high beams and squished the entire family. That's about the most murderous thing I've ever done
3
@MarkHenderson ;_;
:(
03:45
Why is it OK for me to buy a steak when the animal it is made from was essentially tortured to death? I figured that hunting would give me an internal moral high ground
And it wasn't on purpose, but I wasn't going to slam on the breaks on a dirt country road at almost 100kph jsut to save a kitten. Probably would have ended up in a ditch
@MarkHenderson Man, you tell weird stories.
@Basil That'll teach you to be a better shot quick
@Basil Possibly. My niece went to the family farm my uncle runs, and then that night refused to eat lamb once she found out what lambs really are. Then my sister said "Well, that means that that lamb died for nothing then" and guilted her into eating it anwyay
@ChrisS I'm an amazing shot with a rifle, but we were using a bird shot-gun
03:47
Weirdest thing is shooting fowl, like pheasant. It takes off, you shoot it, it drops. Dog brings it in, you snap the neck to be sure it's dead...
Problem is, when you snap it's neck the body goes wild for about 15 seconds... Flapping and kicking all over. So you hold on for dear life
Bird hunting is a lot more accessible than game hunting where I am
@ChrisS yeah, that's the experience I had- totally weirded me out.
And I wasn't even the one to wring its neck
Also, in case anyone didn't know, chickens don't need a head. Their bodies have enough reflexes that they can walk around headless. It's very common for them to do so after a farmer has chopped off the head. Usually they bleed to death quickly enough... but not always.
@ChrisS Good ol' Mike.
I know intellectually that it's truly dead and this is just some weird neural circuitry probably evolved into birds to alert the neighbours when there's something killing them in their sleep, but it sure looks like it's in pain
Anyway, I decided that bird hunting isn't for me. I'll probably go deer or moose hunting next time, but that's a whole other set of issues. You don't have to do as many things that make city folk squeamish, but the one or two you do do per season are really big jobs
Funny thing about game hunting in my part of Canada- you can start the season earlier if you use a bow instead of a rifle. A bow or... a blunderbuss. That's right, a muzzle loaded blunderbuss. Weird fucking rules.
@ChrisS Chickens are pretty fucking dumb
No great surprise there's not much in their heads
Not as dumb as sheep though
03:53
These animals are only "dumb" in the sense that we've selectively bred them to be docile and rely on people to survive as part of their domestication. Wild fowl and wild sheep aren't anywhere near as dumb
@MDMarra Yes, but EPEL packages are usually also version locked, with backported patches.
@Basil Is there such a thing as a wild sheep these days?
@MichaelHampton Right, I didn't mean newer like Apache 2.4 or whatever
I meant like, new things that have come out and are cool since the last major version forking
Yeah, it's just stuff that isn't already in RHEL.
@MarkHenderson Rams and goats for sure
I don't think sheep the way they exist now ever existed in the wild- just like before cultivation, corn was only baby corn, I'll bet sheep were totally different before domestication.
04:00
@Basil Yeah I was just reading wikipedia on it. We basically bred domestic sheep to suit ourselves and they were never found int hew ild
04:10
I'm out for the night :)
05:10
@MichaelHampton So, it looks like the SMTP connection was trying to use IPv6 and I've been face desking for 3 hours.
and cPanel is shitting on IPv6
working now :|
@mossy Do I even need to say it?
no
Do you actually have IPv6?
No, after the upgrade it was set to use on boot
I'm still figuring out what the FUCK happened
but this is going to have to wait, because it's working right now. It's 12:14am and I want a milkshake
I'm getting a trickle of incoming mail on IPv6 now...
05:17
Do you have nmap handy?
Yep
Looks like mostly from Gmail and one stray message from Wikimedia...
@mossy Thoguht cpanel's ipv6 support was still emerging?
cpanel's ipv6 support is dicks
@mossy Did you want something scanned?
How hard can that really be to implement?
05:27
@ShaneMadden Developers.
It's not like they're writing the network stack. It's a management interface..
@ShaneMadden Too many char(15) or unsigned int fields for IP addresses
Oh, look, let's store IP addresses in the database in a 15 character text field..
@MichaelHampton How else would you store them? int? Still going to have trouble
@MichaelHampton I think I'm going to worry about it tomorrow, i need to get some sleep. but thank you!
05:28
15 characters is 2001:4830:1600: ...and that only gets you to /48.
Software that pre-dates IPv6 adoption is always going to have trouble retrofitting
I was going to rewrite my rules, but I'm fallin asleep
Even if it's just the input validation to check for valid Ip addresses, or the fact that the IP fields are width:150px
@MarkHenderson I had to quick hack something by extending its text field to 39 characters.
night guys
05:29
As someone who has been involved in retrofitting an Ipv4 only interface to suit IPv6, it's a buttload of work
05:42
@mossy Damnit, you got me all worked up for nothing!
06:13
So many of enterprise Hadoop vendor, so little of time.
06:34
rough day
@ewwhite Sounds like it, from what I hear of your airplane adventure
@JoelESalas well, worse is that I just checked in to my hotel... The JW Marriott downtown... and the LA KINGS game just let out.
@ewwhite I'm not sure if Kings fans or Lakers fans are worse
first, that's an ugly uniform... but worse is that it was a crowd of rough hockey fans...
I can deal with lakers fans... more mellow
the LA KINGS fans in their oooogly jerseys look like the Insane Clown Posse....
and were rowdy as hell
so I need to find food... (not happening) and get started on the next 8 hours of work :(
@ewwhite If you're hunkered down in DTLA you should hit up Cole's
06:46
what is Cole's?
unless you're an herbivore
I usually go to the Soleto pizza bar.
Delicious french dip sandwich, I like it better than Philippe's
but the fuckers closed as I walked in...
Downtown more like ghost town, I seriously don't know what else is even open right now
except for bars
06:47
Well, the WEBSITE says open until 11pm...
oh ooops... not anymore.
Room service it is!
Oh dude! Are you feeling modestly adventurous?
@JoelESalas Hmm, my adventures in LA can't be spoken about...
why?
@ewwhite There's a glorious taco truck, let me find the intersection
@JoelESalas there's one across the street.
long lines
06:55
-1
A: Fighting Spam - What can I do as an: Email Administrator, Domain Owner, or User?

NiwasServer Fault Server Fault Server Fault Server Fault

Very Low Quality, or Spam Spam Spam?
@MichaelHampton Not a real answer?
Can we spam SF with itself?
@JoelESalas I already hit delete, but it needs 2 more users...
@JoelESalas hmm, I'm two blocks away
but I just ordered the meatloaf
@ewwhite On the way back then
heh, another time.
06:57
Woah, I just got to handle some flags. Did all the moderators disappear?
seems it
I have 6
had
07:19
@MichaelHampton I just had 5
07:35
@Iain We lowly users don't even get notified of flags until they get up to 6 unhandled flags.
@MichaelHampton I didn't know that - I'm sure that when I was >10k and ! mod I would see the occasional 1 or 2
@Iain Nope, we never see them until it hits 6
'they' must have changes thins then
I'm sure there's a complaint on mSO about it, but I'm too busy to go look for it :)
07:50
probably - there is for most things
@MichaelHampton pastebin appears borked
Eh? I tried again, it loaded fine?
5 goes and I got it
I finally got around to parsing my postfix logs to see what spam got blocked for what reason. And, just as I suspected, that guy was smoking something...
Your own spam statistics are also your own. Here, the check for the lack of a PTR record blocks fully 99.1% of incoming spam (and that's after filtering out duplicates). So it varies widely... — Michael Hampton 4 mins ago
Hire a system administrator to run a mail server for you, or subscribe to a third party email service. Those are some options. — Michael Hampton 25 secs ago
Now to make a nice graph...
08:57
Why did this question get bumped? there's no edit or community acitvity on any of the answers and it's got an accepted answer...serverfault.com/questions/8633/…
@tombull89 There was a spam answer that was deleted.
And... I can't create a simple pie chart in Excel. WTF?
@MichaelHampton ah right
derp
OK, I can create a pie chart in Excel, but only after (1) causing Excel to crash, and (2) complaining about it.
jesus what's with all the email questions
Dan
Dan
09:23
@Iain I love the use of ! - there's not many places on the internet where that works in a sentence
09:40
Morning all.
Damn, I've edited that fighting spam post enough that it went CW
Dan
Dan
CW?
community wiki
Dan
Dan
Ooh, I see
OK, here's the mail server stats with successful deliveries. This is ~ 18,000 unique messages (was 31,000 before filtering out duplicate delivery attempts).
@ewwhite And that's why I reject when there's no reverse DNS.
Dan
Dan
09:48
@MichaelHampton Someone is now using my domain to send spam which is a bummer as I like using Catch-Alls
@Dan I like catch-alls in theory, but the backscatter makes it unworkable for me.
My domain is also almost 10 years old, and so I have to put up with a LOT of spam...
Dan
Dan
@MichaelHampton I'll be fair, Google Apps is doing a great job of keeping spam away. And, to be honest, I rarely use e-mail for person to person communication so I'm normally looking out for something (Invoice, order notification etc)
I get email from clients, but at a different address not in that domain.
Dan
Dan
Not too bad then
I'm kind of tempted to move away from Google Apps, though - just for a change as much as anything

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