@voretaq7 Ours was a little too new for that. I switched my senior year and became 25% of the first graduating class. :)

@voretaq7 At UMass it's an engineering school program. At La Salle it's part of the Math department

(though that means like 4 24-credit semesters. Those are some hardcore legal motherfuckers!)

@MDMarra it depends on how the school wants to look at CS

@voretaq7 Now here (at OU) CS is in the Engineering college and shares a department with Electrical Engineering.

CS/E programs tend to have more practical stuff in them, CS/M programs tend to focus on complexity theory and algorithm analysis

Yuppers.

Hofstra had no clue what they wanted to do, so the school of computer science shares courses with both Math and Engineering

it seems really fucked up, but it's actually a good balance IMHO

Additionally, some universities have different general education requirements depending on which college your major is in. So moving a program from one college to another can be beneficial.

How would you guys weigh-in on choosing a school, based on it's degree program? I'm looking at "Computer Science and Information Technology" vs. "Computer Information Systems" vs. "Computer Information Technology", all bachelors

@ScottPack at hofstra your GenEd/Breadth courses depend more on if you're BS/MS or BA/MA

@voretaq7 Sounds like it, given the CW that a math graduate makes a better programmer than a CS graduate.

@David look at the course content more than the words they put on the sheepskin

@voretaq7 That makes sense to me. For good or for ill we have the College of Arts and Sciences (which has both BSes and BAs) and the College of Engineering (which only has BSes). So the requirements go with the college.

@David Honestly, unless you're at a really great school or a really bad one, it doesn't matter much. Pick the one that you feel you'll be the best fit at.

@David Do as @voretaq7 says. Generally speaking, you want something that includes as much hard technical content as possible. CS usually is worth more than CIS, IT, MIS, etc.

@MDMarra they're all California State Universities

so i doubt they're either great, or terrible

Not sure of the differences between them

Hofstra offers two degrees for example, "Computer Science" (Department of Computer Science, School of Engineering), and "Business Computer Information Systems" (School of Business)

@MilesErickson It depends. If you want to work in an IT field then you probably want a CS program that has a lot of practical stuff.

@voretaq7 Oh yes, the CIS kids.

I've been considering going back and getting a degree.

Trying to decide between computer science and economics.

At this point, it doesn't really matter :P

@MilesErickson the CS looks like TONS of math and programming, neither of which i'm a huge fan of...whereas the CSI/CIT ones dont have as much math (and slightly less programming)

@ScottPack True. However, I'd argue that a CS degree can be had only from a university, whereas practical skills/experience can be obtained in one's bedroom.

@David A "real CS" degree is going to be Math, cleverly masquerading as computer science

@MilesErickson There's an advantage to having both

@voretaq7 I really would like an IT degree, but the school with the CS and IT degree is my favorite school of the 3

@David Another data point. Ohio University has "Computer Science" (School of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, College of Engineering) and "Information Technology Systems" (School of Telecommunications, College of Communications).

CSIT @ Monterey, dont remember which is which for CIS vs CIT

If you're looking at a school that does a ton of research (think Carnegie Mellon) and you want to get in on some of that for the brags, factor that in. If you're looking at an Ivy league, factor that in. Otherwise, just visit them and go where you think you'll succeed. Getting a 3.8 at somewhere that you fit, but is ranked 15th in the region will be more valuable than getting a 3.0 in somewhere ranked 10th but that wasnt as good a fit for you.

@David If you're looking for a program that's heavy on practical skills and light on math, you might also look at WGU's BSIT programs. They are unique in that they use actual industry certifications as final exams. You will graduate with a raft of certifications from Microsoft, Cisco, etc.

@MilesErickson WGU?

@David Click the link.

@MilesErickson Why don't they have that in Canada? Stupid education system...

oh i see a link now

I took two Database Design courses in college - one CSC (Principles of Database Architecture) where we learned about query planners, GeQO, optimal cost planning, clustering, page structure and caching, out-of-band-storage, different index types) and one BCIS (where we wrote a simple program using Access, and I successfully lobbied the prof into letting me use the Oracle cluster the CS department had access to and write my front-end in PHP)

meh, i need to go to a real college, ive lived @ home and gone to community college forever...need to experience life!

the CIS and CIT are Northridge and Chico, not sure which is which though

@MDMarra If you want to get in on research for the brags look for big name schools. If you want to get into it for the fun of it look at the professors at smaller schools.

@Basil WGU accepts international students. Tuition is $3000 per 6-month term, and they do not limit the number of credits you can complete in a term. They are regionally accredited, so it is a real degree.

@MilesErickson Both is much better. So my undergrad CS was from a Math department. I would say something approaching 5% of it is actually relevant to my work. My MS was from Engineering, where I ended up having to retake the grad version of the same core classes I took as an undergrad. As well as more hands on stuff. Relevance to work? Closer to 70%.

I used to hang out in my advisor's office and bullshit about algorithms for solving (or at least approximating) infinite series

@ScottPack I believe you.

@ScottPack Plus it's fun when you take something like a networking class in a mixed-schools university

@MilesErickson that's more expensive than Mcgill...

@Basil Shut up you goddamn canadian

Education is expensive down here.

we learned about the math (just a bit), the EE aspects of signaling/CSMA-CD, and then we did absolutely ABUSIVE things to a little lab of Linux machines.

@MilesErickson I suppose what I'm trying to say, though, is that the traditional CS part of my education has been almost meaningless. However, the ones where we wrote software emulators for networking equipment, or wrote filesystem drivers? Those were hella useful.

Enjoy your Tim Horton's Coffee you Communist.

@Basil Whereas in the USA, it is the absolute cheapest 4-year university. Canada still invests in higher education. All we do here in the USA is put the full faith and bad credit of the U.S. Treasury behind student loans issued by private banks.

@Goatmale I have a Tim Horton's about 40 minutes from here.

@MDMarra I was thinking of specifically going for economics because it's a study that does not in any way increase my earnings or productivity

@ScottPack The traditional CS part of my education is more useful combined with the engineering part of my education

What other country in the world invests in learning hobbies for adults?

but that's because my current job occasionally involves writing firmware or delving into deep magic DSP algorithms and Fourier transforms

which I wouldn't have any clue about without all the math

my limited research thus far (all i've done is apply to them):

@Goatmale Funny you mention it- I'm drinking one right now

@voretaq7 Meh, I couldn't care less about computational complexity or Turing machines. Because, quite frankly, they aren't relevant to anything I do nor were they relevant to me learning the stuff that was.

@ScottPack Brilliant. My initial point, which I may have stated inarticulately, is that a lot of CIS/MIS programs produce graduates who wouldn't dream of writing a login script, let alone a driver.

@ScottPack Turing machines are COOL!

@David Visit them

@MilesErickson Oh, the CIS/MIS part. Oh sure, I would totally agree there. I don't really see them as being useful.

@MDMarra I will, in April

@voretaq7 Who's got two thumbs and doesn't care?

especially LEGO turing machines!

@David also, ask if you can sit in on a class or two at each

@ScottPack YOU HATE LEGOS! TERRORIST!

You'll get a feel for the content and will get to interact with current students

@MDMarra luckily Chico and Monterey are driveable, but Northridge will require a flight...

I thought I was the youngest breed of neckbeard round these parts but Davis is pretty young, too.

You can listen to faculty blab about nonsense forever and still not get a feel for the programs, but 5 minutes with a student from each and you'll know whether its for you or not

@MilesErickson WGU is more expensive than my 4 year undergrad. FYI. :)

@ScottPack Seriously?

@David definitely visit them, audit a class if you can

@MilesErickson moreheadstate.edu/tuition

but the first one looks reasonable

@voretaq7 the problem w/ that one is theres so much math/programming, and i'm WAY behind on that

@MilesErickson Shit, I screwed up the time conversions. Nevermind. Pretty close, though.

@ScottPack I see $3642, which is >3000.

their transfer schedule assumes you've taken like 4 programming classes and 4 math classes, none of which ive takne

@David that's what the first semester is for

the network security portion of the degree (if it isn't fluff) will pay for itself.

i'd be looking at AT LEAST 2 years 1 semester

I raged destroyed my WDS server.

with heavy math/programming EVERY semester

Network Security is so 2011.

@ScottPack Now it's called "Cloud Security"

@ScottPack . . . and thats why we have this:

@Goatmale Now it's called Cyber Cloud MSSP

@voretaq7 That's exactly my point. That's user training and awareness, not network security.

@voretaq7 If we didn't have users we wouldn't have insecurity!

@voretaq7 catalog.csumb.edu/undergrad-education/majors/…

Maybe they don't read the "ask question" help text after all.

@MDMarra I thought AD handled the creation of the folder automagically

You just set the parent folder with decently permissive ACLs and it did the rest

@ScottPack I've long mantained that if we just remove the users all the problems go away.

@MilesErickson nobody reads anything any more - it's easier to ask the internet

@voretaq7 That twitter acc. owns

@gparent If you're using folder redirection, yes.

Or, if you use the Home Folder attribute from the GUI

Not if you script a value into the home folder attribute

Right, that's what I thought. Cool.

@voretaq7 Nice! I'm tempted to post my cancelled card from when I was part of Kristin Paget's wireless CC skimming demo.

@voretaq7 Troof.

oh wait, I didn't say that in my answer, did I

I have a card provided by Cisco

Prepaid.

I used to sign "Jesus Christ" and "Barrack Obama" everywhere.

I want a website that tells me the electrical resistance of common household items, such as a penny or a coat hanger or a sewing needle, etc.

@gparent Well, as long as you sign the back of your card that way...

@RyanRies just use your ohmmeter

That prepaid had no signature.

@gparent pwns

@RyanRies Or a nipple.

I was still required to sign, though.

@MilesErickson So there is an example of a question that got down votes. The question is clear, and well asked. Just off-topic.

@gparent Brilliant!

@David that's an.... interesting... selection of courses

@voretaq7 Yes but imagine I am Macguyver and I am stuck in a south american prison

You know... I have never said I'm in love with a piece of software

Yeah, I guess if they compare with the lack of signature field they'd find out that anyone who signed was clearly a thief!

but NetBrain consultant edition is fucking beautiful

@RyanRies then you should know US coins are low resistance (hundreds of ohms or less) unless heavily oxidized.

@voretaq7 I guess it does "pwn", considering how all of these people posted their CCs without getting hacked.

@gparent ...yet

it's like db_autopwn except it feeds from stupid

@Zoredache The hover text on the downvote icon lists "is not useful" as a reason to downvote. Off-topic stuff is not useful be definition. Also, if things have a negative score, low views, and are closed, they are automatically deleted once a month

So downvoting off-topic content helps keep things tidy, since there are so few delete voters around

Why is it so hard to find manuals for SANS online

@NickM. call the manufacturer :)

@NickM. What model?

they dont pick up

wow, that's confidence inspiring :O

I never had a problem finding ones for VNX, CX3, or HP P4500s

I've been looking to order a spare part from them but NOTHING

@NickM. Uhhhh, get a new vendor

@MDMarra stuff gets an automatic -1 if it's closed off topic

its like they disappeared

@NickM. Who is the manufacturer?

@Iain Does it get set to -1, or does it just get a -1 vote?

Because it only takes one person to +1 something, which will negate that -1

@MDMarra the latter

@MilesErickson Enhance-Tech

@MDMarra automatic (free) -1 vote

So are we not supposed to downvote off-topic stuff now?

@voretaq7 what do you mean?

I'm starting to get really confused about when we should and shouldn't vote on things.

@MDMarra really we never were (unless it's crap for other reasons, and even then why bother if it's not going to be our problem?)

I always have

I always assumed that off-topic fell into the "not useful" category described in the hover text

I don't usually downvote if I'm voting to close anyway. It would have to be REALLY bad for that, i.e. spam.

@David seems more like a programming school than a CS course. Where's the OS design, programming languages.... or did I miss it?

@MichaelHampton I almost always downvote if I VTC

@MDMarra @MichaelHampton I suppose it's not useful true, but why waste your vote?

when it's closed you don't get the vote back to use on something better

@voretaq7 Because I never vote 40 times in a day

@MichaelHampton flag spam don't waste votes on em

@MDMarra VOTE MOAR!

@MichaelHampton spam really should be flagged. Enough flags and it automatically goes away

I didn't even know there was a vote cap.

I always flag spam.

@voretaq7 Maybe I will once I figure out what the fuck I'm supposed to actually vote on.

@voretaq7 probably in the freshmen course pathway, not sure though. coming from community college, they're going to have to make a custom plan for me

as ive taken all kinds of diff classes, some of which cover courses there, some of which don't (even though they should)

@MDMarra Posts

Some people say "Comments", but they are wrong

Ahaha.

@MDMarra why are they mutually exclusive ?

@MDMarra you make things so complicated. ;)

@Iain I'm just saying that there are all of these expectations of voting etiquette that have come out of nowhere recently. Like if something is posted in chat and it's bad don't pile on? Why's it matter if it was posted in chat? If it's bad, it should get a downvote whether it's -1 or -10

Questions generally needs more votes

@MDMarra upvoate good stuff. Downvote answers that that provide wrong information. downvote questions that have no hope of being improved, or being useful if migrated to another site.

146K posts on SF with a score of 0 right now. Plenty of opportunity to make your vote count.

@pauska Unless they're downvotes, apparently

@Shog9 This is a continuation of a conversation that's been going on and off all day :)

Screw that, down vote if you want

@MDMarra I think you are being deliberately dumb

We just need to up vote more

@Iain Dude, I'm really not.

@MDMarra People put too much thought into voting.

Does anyone go to DEF CON? @ScottPack I'm looking at you

And I admit I SUCK at up voting

@JoelESalas No, he doesn't. I do.

Look at that answer that was -11 that got deleted. You were saying that we shouldn't have piled on. It was trash. I don't care if it was -1 or -50, I'm going to add another -1. I don't care at all how it was brought to my attention that it was trash (chat or otherwise) it was a bad answer.

@Iain No he's not, I've been following this convo all day and it's utterly confusing.

@JeffFerland IRC channel for DEF CON?

@MDMarra - my last comment was based on this question: serverfault.com/questions/454008/…

@Iain I don't even know what you want people to do anymore. Honest. No offense meant.

@JoelESalas I've never been. It's a cost thing. It's a few thousand miles from here and it would be out of my pocket.

@JoelESalas Nope.

@gparent Upvote good content whether it's a question or answer, and don't be a douche.

@Shog9 That's what I'm saying

If it's bad, downvote it. If it's good, upvote it. Right?

Pretty simple stuff, I thought.

@ScottPack Yes, I wish it was like that so we didn't need hours long discussions on it.

It's how I try to vote, apparently it's not good enough.

@gparent It's really very simple - don't use this room to beat up on people. Don't pile on, don't leave shitty comments.

@Iain I think that's wrong. Definitely don't pile on with comments, but if something bad gets linked to in here, why the hell shouldn't we pile on downvotes?

@MDMarra I know you do but that doesn't make it right

@MDMarra Is that why it's being linked here?

So basically I should vote differently based on whether someone posted a question on here or not. This is where it gets silly.

And where the "Where's the flowchart for this?" questions come from I think.

@Shog9 There are things that get posted for being very wrong/dangerous/bad, yes

@NickM. Hey Nick, did you know that Enhance Technology actually replies to IMs sent to support.enhance on Skype?

and there are things that get posted in here so the pack can beat up on them too

@ScottPack That's unfortunate, I always come away with something good

And there are times that it quickly picks up a -5 or more, which, personally, I think is a good thing. It protects the community and askers from bad answers that could be harmful or dangerous

Because I'll often link bad questions here, -genuinely- interested in the actual content so that I can maybe fix it.

But it would be considered piling unless I write a disclaimer.

@gparent Well, no, actually. Haven't seen as much of it on SF, but on SO there's rather a large problem in some areas with vote skew from folks who sit around up-voting each other's posts / down-voting competitors.

Or ganging, whatever.

@MilesErickson I finally got through to them on the phone! and no I had no idea that they had skype but i see it on their website now that you mention it! thanks bud

@Shog9 Eh, maybe, I don't hang on SO.

@gparent please

@Shog9 There's nothing like that here. It's more like "Oh my god, look at this horrible thing that this user is proposing"

If you have no interest in a particular question/answer, then you probably shouldn't be voting at all - tossing one on the pile 'cause your friends ask you to is kinda dirty.

@voretaq7 look better now? catalog.csumb.edu/undergrad-education/majors/…

@Shog9 If we're not supposed to use chat as a place to point out exceptionally bad (or good in some cases) content, why does it onebox?

Seems like that is encouraging linking to content on both ends of the spectrum

@Shog9 Switched jobs from programming to networking, so the rep I have now is most likely all I'll have :D

No one is going to link to something mediocre and be like "look at this ho-hum thing"

@MDMarra Difference between "here's a particularly bad/good post" and "hey everyone vote on this please"

@Shog9 I don't think I have ever seen anyone say "downvote this"

It's been a very rare event that someone posts a Q and says to vote on it, up or down.

I only do if it's advertising.

And then it's not votes, but flags.

I can only ever think of one time, when someone hid a forkbomb in a bash script

@MDMarra the culture in here is sufficiently toxic that that;'s notnecessary

and @voretaq7 wasn't a mod yet but caught it and posted about it

And that was clearly a malicious thing the user did

Honestly people who get downvotes tend to freak out no matter if it's -2 to -20.

@Iain Was there a followup to that please? I'm sorry if I missed something.

Mostly it's just a onebox link with a line like "look at this terrible idea" or "what an idiot"

Not "downvote this guy, please"

Haven't seen anyone in here ask people to vote yet. Just draw attention to crap

@MDMarra as you know well you don't need to say it because it's well understood

It's usually not critical that those people stick around SF; however, it's important that they don't feel inspired to speak poorly of SF (and the rest of SE)

@Iain So then you're saying that we shouldn't post links to bad content. That's what this is boiling down to, correct?

We also get a fair number of the "look at this poor SoB" which tends to results in questions getting attention from people who could answer them. It's not all negative attention when something gets posted in here.

@Shog9 It's not so much competitors with SF as it is we've got a bunch of smart people who are viscerally offended by gross incompetence.

Which is where we have a fundamental disagreement.

This would be my litmus test: if you get two questions asked, of roughly the same quality, and the one that gets linked here gets 20 votes and the one that doesn't gets 1/2/0... Then there's sort of a problem. Either folks aren't voting enough in general, or there's a (potentially implicit) expectation that things posted here are posted to be voted on.

@Shog9 I would say that by that test we have a problem

@Shog9 Isn't the point of chat oneboxing things to draw attention to them (which implies skewing votes vs non-posted questions)

@Shog9 Well, that's kind of what comes along with the post getting attention - it gets more votes. Featured questions/bounties come to mind.

@MDMarra Yep. Basically even if we're pointing out a question just to talk about why a setup is bad, we're implicitly asking the entire chat to downvote and call the user funny names.

@Shog9 More typically, the one that gets linked here might get 5-8 votes, and the one that doesn't might get 0-3.

If anything, I say that the problem lies more with non-chat people not voting enough, rather than people in chat voting too much on things that get posted here

@Shog9 1. SF has issues with people not voting enough in the first place, particularly higher quality posts get ignored. 2. Post in here doesn't get more than 10 votes as there just aren't that many people around. Getting tweeted gets more votes....

@MDMarra I agree. We talk about things in here because we're the ones paying attention.

I mean, christ, there's only like 15 of us in here at a time. If 15 people can cause a disproportionate skew in voting on things posted in here, then the rest of the site isn't voting enough

@ChrisS that's the big thing for me - your first trip to SF, you ask a good question phrased really badly, and you're -10 on your first post

I don't think that's a reason for us to stop

even if you read the comments and fix it you're never getting out of that hole

@MDMarra And that may be the real problem here. Nevertheless, if you're blindly voting as a group here, that's gonna be hard to beat organically.

@DennisKaarsemaker A search for the word downvote on this channel does seem to turn up lots of examples to the contrary where someone posted a question like and it was followed up by someone else saying downvote to oblivion or something similar.

@voretaq7 Sure, but can you dig up even one example of a genuinely good question, worded poorly, that got to -10, or even -5??

@Shog9 @MDMarra that's definitely part of the issue - there's nowhere near enough voting, and the most active site users (the ones who actually vote) are here

Not found any examples of people suggesting upvotes though.

If someone posts a good question here, and it's just worded poorly, I will jump in, edit it, and answer it.

@ChrisS let me rummage....

@Shog9 Oh, I agree. I don't vote on things posted here as "bad" unless I understand what I'm voting on. I can only speak for myself here, but that's the consensus that I get.

@MilesErickson Good

@Shog9 And honestly, this whole drama is making me think, "why bother voting at all, if this is what comes of it?" ... Which is probably not going to help matters. I used to make a point to vote cap as often as possible, but with all this drama, a heavy day's 10 votes now.

@Zoredache I definitely have in the past

@MDMarra I would say then, make sure you're communicating this philosophy - which I agree with wholeheartedly - to others as well when you post a link

Granted, way less frequently than bad examples

Just to be clear; I don't think voting is a problem in this chat one way or another - Comments are a different story, there's a sticky-star comment covering that one already.

@Zoredache @voretaq7 did it not so long ago on the question about that guy's server being flooded with water, someone else did it on the canonical "why is cron failing" question, and that's just recently...

@Shog9 I think the problem is that so much trash (or good content) only ever gets -2/+2, so with something gets -7 people freak, but it's really not a big deal.

@ChrisS @Iain made a big deal about piling on with downvotes earlier

This convo has been on and off for the last 8 hours

I completely agree that only 1 "you're doing it wrong" comment is needed, but theres absolutely no reason to not downvote something just because it already has a negative score

@HopelessN00b Ok, but I am sure we can agree the people advocating to downvote is far, far more common then a few cases of pointing out questions to upvote.

@Zoredache I don't think so. Usually it's "VTC this."

We still beating this horse?

@Zoredache Does that imply that the people here will thoughtlessly vote as they're told?

@Adrian Whell Shog9 and Chriss are here now, so yeah.

Question: when you set the queue depth on a storage host (for example, Linux), are you setting it per path, or per LUN?

If so, I've got a few posts that everyone should upvote =]

serverfault.com/questions/451651/when-not-to-use-virtualisation/… (not an ideal example, but currently +7/-5 ; serverfault.com/questions/447345/… (only -1, but this was a rare good migration from SO that got kicked back and had to be resurrected), serverfault.com/questions/437399/… (n00b)

Pretty sure it's per path

none of those are down in the teens, but all have what I feel are skewed downvotes

unfortunately I don't have any really good "reversals" other than the first one there

@voretaq7 The worst one there was a -2...

^ rare, but it happens :)

@ChrisS look at the vote tallies

that first one has 5 downvotes sitting on what is IMHO not a really bad question

@Shog9 How about a vote subscription notification? I definitely want to know if someone's come back and fixed a real stinker of a question.

I see that... But it's not a landslide... It's not like it got a -1 or -2 and people piled on until it was -10.

@voretaq7 It's pretty subjective...

Honestly, I don't this problem is fixable until there's notifications of edits after voting.

@ChrisS no, people piled on until it was a -5 and a meta post got created to workshop it into something not sucky

@MDMarra If folks are down-voting 'cause they think it's a crap post, great. If folks like Miles are editing when they see a post that can be salvaged, great. If y'all are creating some "SF Mafia" which dictates whether a post will live or die, that's not so great. Like it or not, that's a real danger, that folks will stop talking and thinking and just fall into mob behavior. You gotta kinda keep your eyes open for that, 'cause it doesn't really help anyone.

The first one I think is a good example of people downvoting where they should be VTC...

@HopelessN00b "What are some metrics to look at when considering virtualization" seems like "good subjective" to me

@ChrisS yeah - I think that's the crux of it

downvotes are being used to bludgeon because close votes aren't "immediate" enough

@Shog9 I volunteer to be the Godfather. It's a burden I'm willing to accept.

@Shog9 Totally agree. Now keeping that principle in mind, do you see a problem with people posting bad content in chat so that it can quickly have more eyes on it than it normally would in cases where the content is very bad?

@voretaq7 Agreed, virtualization is cloud of a few years ago. You don't want to stampede into it without knowing what you want to achieve

@Adrian I think there's some potential there (it's been suggested a couple of times, AFAIK). For myself, I'll periodically revisit my profile's votes tab and check on stuff I've down-voted.

@ChrisS First you have to do @Shog9 a favor... :)

@MDMarra to what end?

@voretaq7 Granted, and I neither VTCed or voted on that question, but when looking at "why did this get downvotes" the fact that it's subjective is a more likely cause than some mob mentality.

@voretaq7 I'm still not sure I see an implicit problem in that. Though I also don't see the use in Question "scores" going past -1 to being with.

@Shog9 The polled approach works only for someone who lives and breathes the site. It really should be interrupt-driven.

@Shog9 Not sure I follow

@voretaq7 Oh, is this one of those "You keep what you kill" deals?

@ChrisS isn't that how we got our diamonds? :)

@voretaq7 No, I played fair. That's why I came in 3rd place.

If chat isn't partially for drawing attention from chatters to very bad or very good content, why do questions onebox? Oneboxing is effectively "EVERYONE CLICK ON ME NOW"

@ChrisS I do see some value in scores going below -1 (see waaaay above where I talk about bad suggestions offered in good faith, like "make your mail server an open relay so you can send mail from your hotel")