The Comms Room

Chris S

00:00

True, different orders of magnitude

HopelessN00b

@MarkHenderson No, but it did involve one of the execs, and that's a situation I frequently imagine him in.

@Zoredache Oh, figured out why I can't call TAC on that router with the 15 iOS upgrades. EoS. :(

Zoredache

@HopelessN00b Ah, that is unsurprising. I don't get why Cisco seems to think you should be replacing routers every 5 years or so... IMO they seem to have a pretty sure 'lifetime' for their equipment.

HopelessN00b

@Zoredache They wanna make money like everyone else. Don't blame them for that. The shitty "must buy support for iOS upgrades" thing, OTOH...

And this model's so old one of the iOS versions includes 3DES. shudder IP/FW/IDS PLUS IPSEC 3DES BASIC

Oh, fuck. And that's the only k9 iOS for it. How the hell old is this thing?

Mark Henderson

@HopelessN00b Heh, do you still have to ring up and get 3DES activated manually?

When I was at cisco TAC the devices shipped with DES by default and you had to ask for 3DES

HopelessN00b

@MarkHenderson Dunno, but I get the impression I'll be finding out shortly. We have two of these things. Cisco 2610. Let's consult the Google to see how old it is...

Hmm. Feb 2001, maybe older. Loverly.

And, pathetisadly, those routers are running way out of date iOS versions too.

So definitely pre-2001.

@MarkHenderson Oh, you worked at TAC? What's the difference between iOS and IOS ROMMON?

Mark Henderson

00:15

@HopelessN00b This was nearly 10 years ago and I got out of TAC in < 3 months and got into entitlement

HopelessN00b

Read Only Memory Module... Overtly... Nadified?

Mark Henderson

I was the guy that would answer "Welcome to Cisco TAC, can I have your CCO Username please?"

HopelessN00b

Ah, well, I shall consult teh g00glez, then.

Mark Henderson

And then I'd plug in your serial number and put your call in the queue and advise you someone will call you back in < 1 hour

Adrian

@HopelessN00b Well, there's always relocation, right?

@HopelessN00b I've got a 2600 in my closet that I need to break out and mess with.

HopelessN00b

00:19

@Adrian Yeah, but I'm still going to have to see this project through for the massive +$$$ career considerations. :(

@Adrian Well, if you need the latest k9 iOS for it (August 2005, lol), you know someone who can provide it.

Adrian

@HopelessN00b Seriously though, there's quite a bit of unfilled Linux positions in this town, it seems. I'm still getting calls from recruiters 2-3/week.

And that's even with a marked preference for full-time noted on my profile.

HopelessN00b

@Adrian Yeah, my Linuxes are too rusty, having been in MS shops for the past 3 jobs. :(

Unless any of them are looking for a highly paid someone to screw up their shit while getting back into the swing of Linux. I'd be perfect for one of those.

Hennes

I have coasted in ms jobs for 10 years. And Friday is the big interview in a which might (well used to 10 years ago) run Linux.

Adrian

@HopelessN00b Pfft. If you can remember a fair bit of entry-level Linux and some Perl scripting, you'd probably be perfect for Amazon.

Zoredache

@Adrian Why does it have to be perl...

Adrian

00:33

Grab a copy of an RedHat cert book from Amazon and study the RHCSA chapters and brush up on your Perl, and you'd be a shoe-in for an Amazon slot.

@Zoredache Amazon is a Perl shop. Almost entirely.

Michael Hampton

@Adrian Perl? The rest of us gave that up years ago. Jeebus.

MikeyB

Oooohhh! A sealed copy of Red Hat Linux 7.2!

Michael Hampton

Yes, they shipped that.

Adrian

@HopelessN00b You got any Java chops?

@MichaelHampton Dang. I remember installing that a VERY long time ago.

HopelessN00b

@Adrian Already got a meat-grinder-type job. Now, if I could telecommute, mbe, but even so, I'm not exactly hot on the idea of humping another crappy job for valuable experience. The plan is to get this invaluable experience to increase my pay and decrease the shittyness-factor of my future jobs.

@Adrian Nope. I hate it like the fucking plague.

Adrian

00:39

@HopelessN00b Well, hey, if you're good enough for Google, they're hiring in Seattle too.

Goog's suckage is probably less than most places.

HopelessN00b

@MichaelHampton Heh, I'm old-schoolier than you. I PERL. :p

@Adrian Yeah, if only they hired Windows admins, I'd be a shoe-in. I'd throw an application in "just to see," except for the whole 3-days-of-interviewing thing they do.

Adrian

@Zoredache As expected, the boss relented slightly to allow the hacky routing solution to be tried out tomorrow morning. Unless the improvement is significant, he wants to revert Firefox. eyeroll

Zoredache

@Adrian I am not sure your hacking route solution is going to work right though....

HopelessN00b

@Adrian Sounds like your old place will soon be hiring a new guy to eff up all the things. I could do that for them. Telecommute, after my current day job? =D

Michael Hampton

@HopelessN00b Oh, I could write enough perl to bring down a server, but...

HopelessN00b

00:44

@MichaelHampton ... you prefer to bring down servers by installing RHEL 7.2 on them?

Michael Hampton

@HopelessN00b Actually if I want to bring down a server, I install Windows on it.

Adrian

@Zoredache Entirely possible. It worked in a pair of VMs under VMWare, so it's possible that VMWare was doing some secret squirrel stuff to make it work that won't be happening on a bare Cat 6 inter-connect.

Nothing's coming to mind though that would make it not work.

Zoredache

Well the routes will get added, I am just not seeing why it would choose the one adapter over the other. But your anonymization of what you posted may be confusing me.

It probably won't hurt to try it though. Assuming the interfaces are already installed it should only take a few minutes to prove that things are working.

Adrian

01:01

@Zoredache Yeah, and I sometimes forget how stupid it is to anonymize RFC1918 addresses.

Woot. Exactly 100 close votes away from Steward badge.

Adrian

01:19

@Zoredache Sure enough. Bonding looks like it worked pretty well but wouldn't work until I'd rebooted.

Our network config doesn't seem to work too happily with Ubuntu's rc.d scripts, but that might also be because we ripped out network-manager

MikeyB

@Adrian alt.network.manager.die.die.die

Zoredache

@MikeyB What is the alternative application that for letting noob-users be able to manage their wifi/network config?

MikeyB

@Zoredache Oh, users? I was thinking server. :0

Adrian

@MikeyB Nice. Yeah, it's a steaming pile of shit, that's for sure.

Zoredache

@MikeyB Right, network manager isn't installed unless you install the stupid GUI. The tricky part is for terminal servers, which have a GUI, but end users aren't supposed to make system-wide changes.

MikeyB

01:30

@Zoredache Key word there is server :) Oh and yes, there's a CLI client for network manager - cnetworkmanager or some such. Handy thing.

HopelessN00b

Alright, well I'm outta here. A short stop by the old network admin's place to kick him in the nuts, then it's home for me!

Peace all.

Hennes

Peace to all except the old network admin?

Zoredache

@MikeyB I know. But people building the packages tend to package all the vast majority of the GUI stuff as if it was intended for a single-user system.

@HopelessN00b Is it really his fault the organization/business didn't want to properly maintain their equipment?

MikeyB

@Zoredache Yeah, agreed. I think there's a fairly simple way of disabling it - possibly restricting groups or setting 'NETWORKMANAGER=no' in the cfg file or something

Adrian

@Zoredache And the Mozilla stuff is really getting to be a PITA for single-user design on multi-user system. The greediness around contiguous memory space for memory that it ends up not using is fscking ridiculous.

@MikeyB Tried that. Still had problems. Worked better after we ran 'apt-get remove network-manager'

2

Journeyman Geek

01:35

@MikeyB or just do things the old fashioned way. Use /etc/networks, and if you need wireless, oldskill wpa_supplicant

used to have a system set up that way. network manager is redundant in a lot of cases

MikeyB

@Adrian Really, what the hell is the benefit of contig memory anyways? You still need lookups anyhow.

Adrian

@MikeyB easier to do programming if you assume they're all contiguous, I guess?

Linux does all that mapping with virtual memory addresses anyway, if I understand that correctly.

A Dev, I am not.

MikeyB

@Adrian Your memory space is your own (and humongous). Who cares what real memory is behind it? (except NUMA, etc) Use it however you like.

Hennes

Except if you use java (script?)

Ariane broken her browser on OpenBSD when se redesigned the memory handling so it explicitly handed out non linear pieces. (Same ID as process ID randomisation).

Which worked.

But java assumed all allocated memory was within a 32bit pointer range.

Which was no longer true on 64 bit systems

Adrian

Ah well. Time to go see the pretty lady and make a salad for dinner.

TheCleaner

01:57

Came here for two seconds just to gripe. Stupid DevOps. Restored their precious server, apps aren't working the same as before the crash. I tell them to fix it, they say it must be something with Windows. I call BS and tell them their apps are crap running scheduled tasks that require the user logged on. The entire time they refuse to get on the server and debug the app. ....le sigh...

Journeyman Geek

beat them until (your) morale improves!

TheCleaner

I'm considering changing their switch ports to 10/half.

HopelessN00b

@Zoredache No, and I am about the only one here who's not bashing him as a complete fuck up, but when I have to go through and do simple shit like enable SSH and https (and block telnet/http) for half the network devices, I get pissy, and find myself in a nut-kicking mood.

WesleyDavid

02:22

@Adrian beats network-manager with Mark Shuttleworth

Adrian

Yes, that would be quite nice.

Phone screen went well today.

WesleyDavid

@Adrian For classmates?

Michael Hampton

I've been reading through my old answers. I can't believe I actually answered some of these questions...

HopelessN00b

@MichaelHampton Boredom makes a porcupine do strange things, huh?

Michael Hampton

Apparently so.

@HopelessN00b Then I find gems like this...

And so begins the downfall of a once great Linux admin... :p — HopelessN00b Sep 7 at 18:41

HopelessN00b

02:43

Starred for truth. =D

SpacemanSpiff

I dearly hope that guy is not from the USA

"exposing the internet to the internet"... sigh

as I add both iptables and dd-wrt to my "ignore" tags

Mark Henderson

Microsoft Downloads working for anyone else?

SpacemanSpiff

from which site

technet?

Mark Henderson

microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=13456&bldi=0

I'm getting bright-red XML errors

SpacemanSpiff

same here

Mark Henderson

02:47

Cunts

Michael Hampton

@MarkHenderson I see Chrome's HTTP 500 page.

SpacemanSpiff

I really, and mean really hate DD-WRT

Hennes

@SpacemanSpiff If he was from the USA it would have been "Exposing the intartubes to the intartube" :)

Mark Henderson

It looks like CNET have illegally mirrored what I want

Thank goodness

WesleyDavid

@MarkHenderson I haven't been sure if C|Net is legit or spammers since 2001.

I remember the fun days of download.com in 1996, looking for Doom II.

Mark Henderson

02:54

Well the good news is that SOAP Tooklit 3.0 is actually SOAP Toolkit 2.0 once downloaded

Which isn't compatible with 2k8r2

Michael Hampton

@SpacemanSpiff Join the club.

Mark Henderson

Yay Microsoft downloads are back

SpacemanSpiff

Markdown when the original information is unclear just rubs me the wrong way.... I'd rather just delete my answer and let someone else post a just as wrong one.

:)

Hennes

I need to get some sleep. My first reaction to this post was a one word answer ("yes")

0

Q: Create new partition on live production CentOS server

I have a production server that is running on CentOS. I'd like to create a partition on the server without having to reinstall everything. I have CLI and VNC access to the remote server. Is there anyway that I can create a partition safely? Thanks.

WesleyDavid

@SpacemanSpiff Downvoted because you said "markdown"

SpacemanSpiff

02:57

k

Hennes

He did not even ask if he could safely create and use without rebooting that partition :)

WesleyDavid

My initial response was a one word answer:
"No. You are doomed. Die with honor."

Then I realized it wasn't a one word answer.

sips coffee

Hennes

Too much coffee if I am still awake at 4 AM

Waves. Back in a few hours

SpacemanSpiff

heh

HopelessN00b

@Hennes I must be st00pid, because I can't figure out why the answer isn't "yes."

SpacemanSpiff

03:00

The fun argument of the day was a "so-called CCIE" insisting to me that you can't do trunking without VTP

It ended with me asking for his CCIE number so I can try and call Cisco and have his certification revoked for being a fucking moron

If only that was possible.

HopelessN00b

@SpacemanSpiff Was he actually a CCIE?

SpacemanSpiff

No, I think he just told the people he was working for that he was.

HopelessN00b

Or just a CCIE who had too cram so much useless knowledge in to pass the test, that he doesn't know anything useful?

SpacemanSpiff

It was blatantly obvious he was not.

HopelessN00b

@SpacemanSpiff Ah. All the real CCIEs I know fall into that last category, which is why I always find myself asking.

SpacemanSpiff

03:02

the silence in the room when I said "oh really, so how do servers and non Cisco hardware do it then since its a proprietary protocol"

HopelessN00b

@SpacemanSpiff Sounds like a bad bullshitter too. I could BS my way out of something like that in my sleep.

voretaq7

03:23

serverfault.com/badges/62/populist?userid=32986

awesomesauce.

My consolation prize for "You're never going to get Legendary" place :P

@SpacemanSpiff . . . why did I parse that as "you can't be too drunk for VTP"

((which strikes me as axiomatic))

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 The inherent truth of drunkenness helping one's understanding of VTP, I'd guess.

Michael Hampton

0

Q: Reflection on system memory

When running VMWare and allocating i.e. 300MB of random data on the guest system I see the "free memory" indicator in the task manager on the host system decrease by 300MB - but the VMWare process memory usage almost remains the same. Is there any way I can get a handle on that memory (of the wh...

c++ memory

What in hell is this?

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b I suggest a Server Fault meetup wherein we play this game:

Only instead of saying nice things about each other we say nice things about our OS vendors.

Michael Hampton

@voretaq7 That would be a VERY QUIET evening...

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 Sounds good. I'll bring the OS vendors and the booze. You bring the soon-to-be-drunk women.

voretaq7

03:28

@MichaelHampton "Microsoft... has... uh... been in the industry a long time"

@HopelessN00b Um... I think the only women at a SF meetup would be aarthi, rchern, and ethabelle

(and aarthi and rchern would just be showing up to watch us get drunk and curse about our OS vendors in real life, which is probably vastly more entertaining than watching it in here)

Joel E Salas

@voretaq7 And more frightening!

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton "Ubuntu...um... uh... is.... purple?"

HopelessN00b

@voretaq7 Damn shortage of women in IT. :(

voretaq7

@HopelessN00b I blame the men.

(because it's always their fault)

Joel E Salas

@voretaq7 I also blame the men, thanks to fourth-wave feminism

Michael Hampton

03:38

Or we could say nice things about our vendors' marketing reps...

freiheit

@MichaelHampton "Always sure to reach out and call me on a regular basis."

(every frickin' week? really?)

HopelessN00b

@freiheit I'm confused. We talking about women or vendors now?

MikeyB

frakkin' POS vmware CLI… doesn't handle machine names with spaces in the names…

freiheit

@HopelessN00b your mom

Ryan Ries

@MikeyB What are you doing with machines that have spaces in their names?

freiheit

03:46

@MikeyB Try escaping or double-escaping?

(I had something several months back that involved 6 backslashes...)

MikeyB

@RyanRies "V-RHEL 01" … "V-RHEL 32". Load testing.

freiheit

blahblah "machine name" ; blahblah "machine\ name" ; blahblah "machine\\ name" ; blahblah "machine\\\ name" ; ...

@MikeyB or, you know, rename them to V-RHEL-01 ... V-RHEL-32

voretaq7

@JoelESalas are those the psycho feminazis?

MikeyB

@freiheit Just finished doing that. Now bloody moving them over to NFS and back... ARGH.

Ryan Ries

Or comply with RFC 952 from 1985

voretaq7

03:49

one of the "waves" of feminism is essentially a front for "kill all the men"

I can't remember which.

That's hostnames. Has nothing to do with VMWare's internal VM naming convention.

(Of course if comply with the RFC and then name your machines in VMWare so they match the hostnames (like you do with the labels on physical machines) you don't have this problem either...)

Ryan Ries

Oh sorry, I thought he meant hostnames

my bad

voretaq7

@RyanRies Also hostnames are RFC 1123 now

but it's essentially the same as 952 for all practical purposes :)

Ryan Ries

Duly noted :)

freiheit

@voretaq7 I think that was part of the second wave...

voretaq7

(in fact I'd prefer if people stuck to RFC 952 because SOME PEOPLE mishandle 1123 hostnames that begin with a number)

@freiheit Why can't we put all the feminazis and misogynists on an island together?

Journeyman Geek

03:56

hand them weapons and put it on TV?

freiheit

@voretaq7 No island is big enough ...

voretaq7

@freiheit They can have Fire Island. It's been washed clean.

Chris S

@voretaq7 They'd probably get along... or even team up and take over the world

voretaq7

@ChrisS nah, I think there would just be lots of violent sex.

freiheit

@voretaq7 Given how ingrained misogyny is in many religions and cultures, you're gonna need a much bigger island than that...

Chris S

03:59

@voretaq7 You use the pf firewall, right? Do any traffic shaping ever?

voretaq7

@freiheit fine, all the feminazis and misogynists that will fit. As they die off or kill each other we'll ship more over.

@ChrisS how do you think I stay under my bandwidth cap during backups? :-)

Chris S

Well, simple throttling can do that... I guess I'm wondering just how complicated pf's algorithms are. I assume there's more than one, I really haven't looked into it... trying to find a concise reference now

WesleyDavid

@ChrisS I left when @voretaq7 was discussing violent sex, and I come back to you talking about throttling his appliance. Do I need to leave you two alone for a bit?

^ added some artistic license for lulz

Chris S

It made me smile...

Mark Henderson

@WesleyDavid Man Mary was old when she died

And she got to live for almost 20 years without her husband, I bet that was nice for her too

Chris S

04:07

Most old women seem to miss their husbands from my experience

WesleyDavid

Nice that the buzz around the Mayan Superdeath of the uniworlds has really stopped.

I just realized we're a few weeks away and I've heard zilch.

Mark Henderson

@ChrisS Well i guess if you've beenw ith them for that long you'd be attached

WesleyDavid

People beat that one to death early on.

Chris S

@MarkHenderson And lonely without anyone to talk to

Mark Henderson

@ChrisS OK, fine, make me feel bad

Chris S

04:09

Don't mess with Grandma, she'll always win

Mark Henderson

Cos I just realised my Grandma probably has 20 years left, maybe more, without her husband as he died earlier this year

WesleyDavid

I'm dizzy, I only have one shoe on, I haven't shaved in five weeks, and my ear is bleeding. I think I've hit a low point in life.

Mark Henderson

She's in her early 60's, so with todays life expectancies...

@WesleyDavid We're here for you man

Here, have a flask of Whiskey

voretaq7

@ChrisS ::digs like a momma honey badger::

Chris S

Today's youth (in the US) are expected to have a shorter lifespan than their parents for the first time in modern history.

WesleyDavid

04:10

@ChrisS Well aren't you mister candy rainbows tonight.

freiheit

@MarkHenderson There's flasks of whiskey to be had? How do the rest of us get in on that?

Mark Henderson

@freiheit Come visit me

voretaq7

@ChrisS openbsd.org/faq/pf/queueing.html

WesleyDavid

Step 1) Be a loser on par with me.
Step 2) Liquor.
Step 3) ...

Mark Henderson

@ChrisS And our (well, my) generation is expected to be the first generation that are going to be poorer than our parents

WesleyDavid

04:11

Actually, I never drank at any point in my life. Twasn't mah thing.

Plenty of other vices growing up though.

Mark Henderson

I'll go through a 6-pack in about a week

voretaq7

Basically CBQ or PriQ for the underlying determination of who gets their packets dropped, and everybody uses RED+ECN. From there it's your TCP stack's problem (and you can use all the pluggable congestion algorithms you want)

Mark Henderson

(bottles mind you, not cans. I don't think I've ever drunk beer from a can)

WesleyDavid

@MarkHenderson That's interesting. I see so many people my age that are constantly looking for the quick way to make a few hundred Gs. Flipping homes, flipping businesses, penny stocks, day trading... kinda sickening.

voretaq7

it would be nice if we had some tweakability in the packet-dropping portion of the queues though

@ChrisS because today's youth eat like SHIT?

Chris S

04:13

@voretaq7 Hrm, seems somewhat similar to ipfw... Where's the Weighted Fair Queuing?

Mark Henderson

@WesleyDavid And it's that sort of artificial buildup that means we're all fucked in the long term

WesleyDavid

@voretaq7 eats deep fried squirrel head

voretaq7

@freiheit I have flagons of meade

Chris S

@voretaq7 You got it. That and of course lack of exercise

Mark Henderson

I'm trying to keep as much of my retirement in non-volatile markets as I can

I've got about a 50/50 split at the moment between high and low risk

What I should have done is invested 10k in apple 10 years ago

(not that I had 10k 10 years ago, but whatever)

10 years ago Apple were a joke

voretaq7

04:14

@ChrisS I don't believe pf has WFQ - with RED I've never really had the need for it though

Michael Hampton

The time to get into Apple was when they rehired Steve Jobs. The time to get out of Apple is.. well, now.

voretaq7

but remember I also don't operate at effective link saturation (I'm only limiting a few classes of traffic, the uplink itself isn't saturated)

@MichaelHampton mmh, nah

Chris S

I'm not familiar with RED, so I'll have to dive into that. CBQ and PRIQ are essentially the same..

Mark Henderson

@MichaelHampton Yep, i can't see them going too much higher

Michael Hampton

@voretaq7 OK, but don't say I didn't warn you.

voretaq7

04:15

I sold at 700, bought back in with most of that on Friday in the low 5s.

I figure we've got another 6-12 months of relative "up" in the price before I have to jump ship.

Mark Henderson

@voretaq7 Well given that the iPhone 5 seemed to be, frankly, dissapointing and yet everyone still lapped it up, maybe you're right

I am yet to see an iPhone 5 in the wild though

voretaq7

@MarkHenderson I didn't expect the iPhone 5 to be uber-revolutionary

I've seen a few and I'm honestly underwhelmed

I like the fit, the finish is crap (go back to polished aluminum, fuck the anodized shit)

Mark Henderson

I want NFC. Cos once the iPhone has NFC then all the major card companies/banks will actually develop NFC payment apps

Chris S

Ugh... too much thinking. Time to kill some people.

voretaq7

I would like NFC (and it MAKES FUCKING SENSE with Passbook - retards!)

Mark Henderson

04:18

@voretaq7 Yeah except I have a nasty feeling that Apple will push Passbook as their NFC alternative, ignoring the fact that it only works at places where you can scan physical objects

Passbook combined with NFC, now that would be a killer

voretaq7

@MarkHenderson ...which is most retail stores, but still I'd rather have both.

Also NFC means you can start thinking about iPhones as security devices

Corporate-Issued iPhone opens the doors to the datacenter.

Phone gets stolen? Remote wipe it from Exchange and tell the door system to deny it access.

Mark Henderson

I'm looking forward to the day when I don't have to go inside to pay for petrol. They used to have pay at the pump but one day it almost disappeared overnight

freiheit

@voretaq7 I've been thinking of trying to make some mead...

WesleyDavid

@MarkHenderson That's weird, it's more odd in the places I've lived to have to go inside to pay.

voretaq7

yeah, we have pay at the pump here.
It costs you an extra $0.10-$0.30 PER GALLON

WesleyDavid

04:21

@voretaq7 Megalopolis thugs.

voretaq7

@WesleyDavid such behavior was illegal in New York until last year

WesleyDavid

Oh, and allow me.
***Beats markdown with John Gruber.***

voretaq7

the cold femtosectond that law expired we went back to "bend over and take it up the ass if you want to use plastic"

Chris S

WTF Comcast! Why are my ping times in the 200ms+ range?

F-ing F-ers

Michael Hampton

@ChrisS It's Comcrap, what were you expecting?

Chris S

04:22

@MichaelHampton My normal 30-40ms times.

WesleyDavid

@ChrisS sub 100ms ping times are an enterprise feature. Along with a static IP, synchronous throughput and not blocking port 80 at the head end.

Chris S

I don't know what they've been doing lately, but latency has been bouncing all over the place like that.

@WesleyDavid I've had the same IP for almost 3 years now, they don't block any ports here (though I think they should), and normally latency is very acceptable.

Ping is down around 120ms now....

This only happens at night; but that's when I kill people darn it!

Mark Henderson

@voretaq7 They charge you extra for a more cheaper, more convenient payment method? Sounds about right.

MikeyB

@WesleyDavid Hell, hitting a work server over my he.net tunnelled IPv6 connection is only 35ms

Michael Hampton

@MarkHenderson Cheaper for whom? Plastic costs the merchants quite a bit.

Mark Henderson

04:25

@WesleyDavid Yeah, remember our country is just as backwards as America in some things :P

@MichaelHampton But.. who the fuck pays with cash?

MikeyB

@voretaq7 Seriously? They fucking charge you more for paying at the pump? They probably charge a convenience fee while they're at it.

Mark Henderson

@MikeyB Its probably to compensate for the fact that by not going inside you're not tempted to buy 500 chocolates

voretaq7

@MarkHenderson not cheaper for them - 3-5% taken in fees.

Michael Hampton

I pay with cash for various things all the time.

Mark Henderson

@MichaelHampton I don't pay for anything > $10 in value in cash

Mainly cos I never carry more than about $10 in cash

voretaq7

04:27

not for paying at the pump, for using plastic.
If you want full service that costs more too.

@MarkHenderson I buy lunch with cash usually, and gas.

Mark Henderson

@voretaq7 I hate being behind people who pay with cash

voretaq7

Otherwise it's all plastic for me because my credit card has a 1% cash back thing

WesleyDavid

@MarkHenderson You are a Nazi.

Mark Henderson

I went to the supermarket at midnight last night and there was only one checkout open, and the woman infront of me was paying $122 in cash

Michael Hampton

My main complaint is that ATMs only give out $20's and that's just too small a denomination.

Mark Henderson

04:28

I could have throttled her, picking through her notes and her coins

voretaq7

@MarkHenderson 6 20s, and 2 1s. Or 6 20s and a 5, or 6 20s and a 10, or 7 20s.

Mark Henderson

I always feel like a boss when I go through the checkout. Card at the ready, tap it against the receiver, wait for the green tick, and then fuck off

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton Ours give out 50s from Nov.1 through mid January (holiday shopping season)

@MarkHenderson very few places here have RF payment systems

Mark Henderson

@MichaelHampton Interesting. OUrs give 20's and 50's which is enough to make most combinations

WesleyDavid

@MarkHenderson NaziNaziNazi

voretaq7

04:29

@MarkHenderson Most ATMs in the US only give out 20s because a lot of places won't accept bills larger than $20

Michael Hampton

And that's because they think they'll get robbed if they do.

Mark Henderson

@voretaq7 There's been a huge uptick in it here lately. 5 years ago I got yelled at by a lady for using the chip in my credit card, and then all of a sudden NFC showed up everywhere

voretaq7

Remember our money is relatively easy to counterfeit (because our retail slaves make minimum wage or just above it)

WesleyDavid

@voretaq7 I always feel weird when you pay with something larger and the cashier swipes it with those counterfeit pens and looks at it for a second or two.

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton it's more the counterfeit thing. It's really easy to have a drop safe at the tills for large bills

WesleyDavid

04:30

"Hehh hehh -- yeah, don't worry. I let the ink dry for a full week."

Michael Hampton

Eh, I own one of those counterfeit pens.

voretaq7

@WesleyDavid I always roll my eyes, because those pens DO NOT FUCKING WORK!

WesleyDavid

@voretaq7 Shhhh... it's to our advantage. Just... shhhh.

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton Why?

Michael Hampton

Color laser printers apparently have tracking codes they embed onto printed pages. So buy the printer you intend to counterfeit with, with cash.

voretaq7

04:32

@MichaelHampton color laser printers are trivial to distinguish from proper intaglio press notes.

Michael Hampton

@voretaq7 I've forgotten. I think I bought them on a lark years ago.

OK, so how DO you counterfeit money?

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton If I were going to do it?

Michael Hampton

This is a completely hypothetical discussion, is it not? :)

voretaq7

Get a bunch of currency remains (you can get it in pillows)

recycle it into decent, printable paper

Michael Hampton

Oh, you mean the bags of shredded bills?

voretaq7

04:34

and get someone with a good hand (or a laser) to engrave proper plates.

@MichaelHampton yup

then print (press) your bills, and hope to god nobody checks the watermark.

or thread

or about 10 other REALLY QUICK ways to tell a bill is fake :)

honestly you're better off photocopying a $1 bill and buying stuff from vending machines :P

Michael Hampton

That still works?

WesleyDavid

One place I worked for used to print a newsletter and they had big Xerox Fiery blah blah blah printers that they leased. One lady wanted to have a picture of money in the newsletter, so she went to the big scanner and tried to scan it.

Interestingly, the scan merely had a big black rectangle where the note was. The scanner refused to scan it because it detected it was currency. She tried a few more times. Later on the Xerox technician said "Yeah, don't do that. You do it enough times and the unit will send an alert out that eventually gets passed to the FBI. You'll have big black SUVs in y…

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton surprisingly often if you get a good, color copy

but then you're only making ~$0.30-$0.70 per page on the deal

Michael Hampton

@voretaq7 Laundromat change machines used to accept photocopies of $1 bills...

voretaq7

@WesleyDavid secret service, not FBI, but yes - a lot of copy/print companies have currency detection built in at the request of the secret service

because of the photocopy-of-a-bill problem

that's also why the (usually yellow) dot thing got implemented

@MichaelHampton There's three trivial tests where every counterfeit bill I've ever been offered has failed on at least one

Michael Hampton

04:38

Remind me not to let my printers have access to the Internet.

voretaq7

1) can you feel the printed lines (you should)
2) If you rub the green back of the bill on a white sheet of paper does the ink transfer (it should on all but the most ancient bills)
3) Can you see small red and blue threads in the paper fiber

I've seen fake 100s with almost passable watermarks, printed on rag paper, with no threads, and flat ink.

(and the guy was good - he printed a pre-band bill)

The best $20 I ever saw was printed on $5 paper (the ink was flat, and it was a band bill. Even had a band -- just said "FIVE" instead of "TWENTY", and whatever he used to de-ink the bill made it not glow anymore)

Michael Hampton

No, I don't think I'd do any of that crap. There are quite possibly easier ways...

voretaq7

also the band was in the wrong spot but most people don't know where the bands are supposed to be

WesleyDavid

@voretaq7 Yes - I caught wind of that "printer fingerprint" idea years ago and testing it on the Xeroxes I worked around. Break out a magnifying glass (a big one) and scrutinize the paper closely and you'll see them.

Michael Hampton

How the hell do you know so much about counterfeit money?

voretaq7

04:43

@WesleyDavid woods lamp.

WesleyDavid

@voretaq7 Ever seen the old clip trick? Clip one corner off of four 20s. Glue them carefully on the corners of a $1. Hand them to a night clerk at 7-11. Profit! (Disclaimer: I have not done this. <_< )

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton I was a front-end supervisor at a grocery store that saw a LOT of counterfeit money.

Michael Hampton

@voretaq7 aha!

voretaq7

@MichaelHampton Plus the anti-counterfeit measures are really interesting if you read about them

@WesleyDavid yes. It was especially hilarious because (a) he glued them on top of the bill (so there was a ridge), (b) he used a NEW $1 and a not-really-new $20 (so there was a color difference), and (c) the glue came off when I thumbed the corner (srsly?)

WesleyDavid

@voretaq7 tee hee!

voretaq7

04:46

I literally could not stop laughing after he ran out of the store

WesleyDavid

A'ight. I'm out for the night. Kitty needs naptime with his squirrel cuddlies.

voretaq7

we probably shouldn't have even put that one into the funny money pack - I bet the guy who processes it just flicked the other 3 corners off and bought a soda with it.

that's the counterfeiter's equivalent of turning in a blank sheet of paper for your midterm :P

@MichaelHampton have you seen the new $100 notes?

newmoney.gov/newmoney/files/100_Materials/…

they're apparently having printing problems with them but they'll probably be in circulation next year.

Michael Hampton

Cute.

voretaq7

hang on...

Michael Hampton

Now I need a color laser printer...

voretaq7

04:50

newmoney.gov/newmoney/flash/interactive100/index.html

therego

(their UV Light button doesn't do the security bands justice - it's WAY brighter in real life unless your UV lamp is shit)

MikeyB

Smarmy little shit…

thanks for a helping hand buddy. lol — Kaii 21 mins ago

Michael Hampton

I gave him a NARQ

MikeyB

Ending your sentence with 'lol'? Oh, we know on which site you belong. Hint: It starts with 'Eh', ends with 'Ell' and has an 'Oh' in the middle.

2

voretaq7

@MikeyB I think we really need to change our FAQ back to "system and network administrators"

Transcript for