The Comms Room

Chris S

21:00

@voretaq7 I should probably also mention 2048-bit RSA keys, and AES 256-bit encryption

Michael Hampton

0

Q: How to restart RoR services after server has been rebooted

I am working on a project that was built by another group. I made some modifications to a constants file in the config folder (changing some values for arrays that populated some drop down fields), but the app had to be rebooted before those changes would be recognized. The hosting is through Rac...

smack

voretaq7

@ChrisS I'm slightly more abusive than that: SSL/TLS Protocol: TLSv1/SSLv3,DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA,4096,256

Dan

@voretaq7 Ah...yeah, to be fair, I can see the use for it though

voretaq7

I'm cool with importing from a CSV file.
It's the rest of the ongoing maintenance shit that tool does that makes me want to choke a bitch...

Justin Dearing

@voretaq7 speaking of diagrams, there is no graphic for an MSMQ. twitter.com/JohnBrea/status/265549268692123649 RabbitMQ has ugly graphics, so ugly my inkscape work is superior

Dan

21:01

@voretaq7 Yeah

voretaq7

@JustinDearing graffletopia.com/search/mq <- that about the right level of ugly?

Justin Dearing

@Adrian point taken

gparent

@voretaq7 pastebin.com/XkuqeyfD

Does this help

Wait fuck

Nevermind, he was talking about ab seconds ago

Justin Dearing

@voretaq7 yeah, its bad when I'm inspired to break out inkscape. Worse when I do a better job

voretaq7

@gparent not a fair comparison, we're using https :)

gparent

21:03

Oh so the whole 4k thing was always about HTTPS?

I thought even http you had trouble

voretaq7

I can crank out Requests per second: 5052.10 [#/sec] (mean) if I turn of SSL :-)

in fact if I tune a bit

gparent

Right, which is a lot less than 136183.

I'm not convinced his number is accurate though.

Also this is over localhost.

TheCleaner

libreoffice calc...I hate thee

voretaq7

C=8 seems optimal for my VM, 5.1k/sec

Justin Dearing

@voretaq7 I'm a little torn, is your issue that he didn't have a VBScript that ate the spreadsheet?

@TheCleaner Why can't it have a shortcut for fill down and fill series?

voretaq7

21:05

@JustinDearing I think his spreadsheet eater half of that equation is VBS :)

TheCleaner

@JustinDearing I'd be happy if it actually opened xlsx files 50% of the time

Justin Dearing

@voretaq7 VBA is closer to VB6.

@TheCleaner what excel?

voretaq7

@JustinDearing well we don't want to make Excel too bloated...

jscott

@pauska Why bother with the two context changes. Just create the Excel instance in powershell New-Object -ComObject "Excel.Application" and go to town. :)

TheCleaner

excel 2010

Justin Dearing

21:08

@jscott I'm not a big fan of excel COM interop. The one time I had to clean up someones C# code that did excel COM interop confirmed my prejudices.

Chris S

I can get to 9098 r/s with -c 4 -k -n 200000, no https

Justin Dearing

We need to remember this guy wrote this spreadsheet originally in 2004. Assuming he was goot at VBA or VB6, this might have been the quickest path. I guess the issue is the guy didn't know when to quit and retool.

Dan

http://serverfault.com/questions/449182/how-to-install-windows-assemblies/449191#comment489199_449191

UAC redirection or has he just messed it up

voretaq7

-1

Q: ubuntu's average load never below "0.00 0.01 0.05"

I have several ubuntu 12.04 VMs running on a ubuntu 12.04 KVM host. Those of the virtual machines that are totally idle with no services (except syslog and the other "small" standard stuff of a fresh installation) show a constant load of "0.00 0.01 0.05" in top/htop as average 1/5/15. When there...

ubuntu kvm-virtualization load

man, I wish I had load average figures like that! :-)

@JustinDearing Inertia is a powerful thing

gparent

@Dan That folder works automagically with .NET

Chris S

21:13

I'm at 0.04 right now... =]
That's about where my brain is at too.

gparent

@Dan gacutil is probably the better way

voretaq7

$job[-1] was still using my hacks on top of Matt's DNS scripts the last time I heard from them (which was when Oak shat itself and lost the main CVS repo)

SYSBUILDER# uptime
4:10PM up 9 days, 2:48, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

SUCK IT! :P

Kyle Brandt

With -k I get about 400/s

Dan

@gparent Possibly

voretaq7

16:14 up 2 days, 4:51, 6 users, load averages: 0.38 0.32 0.27
^ Workstation

Dan

21:14

Christ I hate hotel room tea

Justin Dearing

@voretaq7 well I did recently add Windows 7 JumpLists to PlaneDisaster.NET, and I don't event use it anymore.

voretaq7

@KyleBrandt wow... that's really shit performance

Chris S

@Dan Buy your own tea, freeloader

Kyle Brandt

Oh, it isn't multithreaded

Dan

@ChrisS It's the milk, really. Long life milk isn't much better and the hotels I stay in don't have fridges

voretaq7

21:15

@KyleBrandt oh you aren't passing -c?

Kyle Brandt

I was

But it only uses one core

voretaq7

ab is still only single-threaded? really?

sucky ass program

Adrian

@voretaq7 As is Dbus.

voretaq7

@Adrian nobody gives an elephant's shart about dbus :P

Kyle Brandt

There we go, now my box is hurting :-P

3

voretaq7

21:17

@KyleBrandt running the python script? :P

Kyle Brandt

No, just 4 copies of ab ;-)

Then each gets about 400 requests a second

Jeff Ferland

@KyleBrandt Was it rooted? Vigorously?

Kyle Brandt

I think I need something distributed, but that it also fast

Only 20/s with Jmeter sounds wrong

Can't find any information on getting faster performance out of jmeter though

Adrian

@voretaq7 Try running 50 users on a server with a single-threaded Dbus. Then you'll understand how massive the Suckage is.

voretaq7

@Adrian it's dbus. I understand it sucks.

Adrian

21:19

@voretaq7 It's not linear. The suck is geometric.

voretaq7

@Adrian no, the suck is constant

adding more users just lets you see more of it

Dan

The reception girl has just been with an electric heater because I moaned the radiator in my room was broke. To be honest, she could have just kept me warm herself

voretaq7

heh apparently 1.5k requests/sec is the uper bound for my VM environment

I tried spawning two ab processes with half concurrency each and they hit 750 and 790/sec

RobM

I'm sure she doesn't hear that all the time @dan or anything

Kyle Brandt

@voretaq7: Against http*s*?

Dan

21:22

@RobM Fortunately I'm neither a cheater nor such a creep that I'd actually say it!

RobM

@Dan I'm glad to see my estimation of you is correct then :-)

I'm bet there's plenty of creeps who have said it though and aren't joking either

voretaq7

@KyleBrandt yeah

with -k though and -c 8

Dan

@RobM You're probably right - can't beat some sexual harrasment at work

voretaq7

@KyleBrandt I'm hitting localhost though, are you going over the network?

Kyle Brandt

Yes, going over the network

gparent

21:24

gah

one of our sites is down :(

RobM

I dunno. What about racist sexual harassment at work. An old boss once informed me that a colleague "must go all night like a steam hammer. Her kind always do".

Dan

@RobM Classy!

RobM

I know, right?

Chris S

@voretaq7 Yeah, ab is single threaded, -c only specifies how many connections it uses, which is still faster than not specifying it.

@KyleBrandt Ha ha. Markdown fail!

Dan

@RobM Also the same people that like phrases like "PC gorn mad" and "over sensitive"

gparent

21:25

@RobM To be honest here we assume you can take a joke, but that's more bad flirting than joking if you're gonna say that to someone.

We have plenty of women who will make sexual jokes themselves though.

I find that an environment where people tell eachother when to stop is a lot more fun to work with than one where you assume everyone is out to harass you.

But I'm not the kind of person who hides what he thinks.. so it's easy for me to work that way.

RobM

There's nothing wrong with banter between friends @gparent.
Equally that doesn't excuse people that do overstep the bounds and act like assholes (let alone bigoted assholes) to others.

voretaq7

hmm, mine throws all kinds of SSL Write Failed errors going over the network

:P

not sure if that's a VM thing, an ab thing, or a real live SSL problem (but my users never complain so I'm gonna assume VM or ab)

Kyle Brandt

That is what I get when I run it from my mac

voretaq7

@KyleBrandt I'm getting it FreeBSD-to-FreeBSD in the VMs, but it's also an older OpenSSL (OpenSSL 0.9.8q 2 Dec 2010)

9.1 needs to hurry up and arrive so I can upgrade these machines

RobM

It kinda depends on what you call "a joke". I'm fairly broadminded but...

My father used to work on a building site... back in the 70s a brick later threw a chisel at him, shouting "Oi Jock" (for those of you who don't know, that's a derogatory way to refer to a Scotsman) and the chisel hit him in the forehead, leaving a scar.

A manager I worked with made frequent racist remarks to a colleague and good friend of mind, depressing him tremendously.

A girlfriend of mine was sexually harassed at 3 jobs in a row.

Kyle Brandt

21:30

Nothing works

voretaq7

@KyleBrandt That's an apt epitaph for our profession

gparent

@RobM Nah, I can't say I consider that "under" the line.

Obviously sexual harassment is way too broad of a term but I'm going to assume it's in line with the other two situations.

Kyle Brandt

I wonder if I can add some of my computers as computer nodes to openstack

Maybe that will be Sunday's project

RobM

@gparent does it matter, if it affected her badly and it continued after she made it clear it was unwelcome?

But my point is, that each of the people who carried out the racist attack on my father, who harassed the girlfriend, who racially abused my friend... they all thought (well said, anyway) they were "just joking". or "just having a laugh." or "didn't mean to hurt anyone".

gparent

@RobM Well it does if you're asking me to judge whether the comments seemed over the line, but I said enough earlier that you can answer that question yourself.

Obviously if she didn't like it and made it clear, no it's not okay.

RobM

21:34

well that's the point, isn't it... the person who's the punchline of the joke gets to define if its funny or not.

gparent

Right.

Sauce: technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj574205.aspx#BKMK_1_5

Wtf is it with kids these days

can't even type "Source" on a fucking Q&A site

RobM

maybe he's hungry

Dan

@RobM With perhaps some irony, getting bullied at school has left me in a position where I find it very hard to ignore any kind of abuse. It'll get me into bother one day, no doubt

RobM

mmm technet sauce

@dan despite being a mild geek, I was quick to anger and surpringly strong back in my school days. Quite a few people tried to bully me and did ok up until the point I lost my temper, at which point I went mad, crazy violent.

On the one hand it got me left alone... not many people came back for seconds... but it wasn't exactly nice that I got so angry that I literally couldn't remember half-killing someone

that's why my parents persuaded me to take up martial arts.. to learn to channel and control that stuff

gparent

Wow, remind me not to joke about the size of your thang.

Although I say this finding your reaction more "agreeable with" than the idiots who picked on you in the first place.

RobM

21:40

lol... well I'm 'Mr totally in control' these days.

Dan

@RobM See, I was kind of the opposite - I took it all at school because I was really scared of the consequences (Getting kicked out of school etc) but at some point in my adult life that changed and I find myself getting involved in things. I'm a lot more careful than I was, but I do still get wound up sometimes

RobM

It was surprisingly effective.

Dan

@RobM Indeed, it's sad to admit, but violence does work very well on some people

voretaq7

@RobM I'm just an angry, violent, Italian man.

Dan

Put it this way, despite running the same route at the same times, I've never ever had the same person give me shit twice when jogging :D

RobM

21:41

@dan I can see how that happened. And it wasn't that I wasn't scared.. normal me was as timid as a fieldmouse, but I all but turned into the hulk the second people pushed me a bit too far

@dan that's a good thing.

@voretaq7 well if it stops you being hassled then its all good

gparent

If I was strong in high school I would've kicked an ass or two to be left alone

Dan

@RobM I should point out I'm not some kind of psycho - the closest I've ever been to a pub fight, was stepping in when someone bitch slapped his girlfriend.

gparent

I don't agree with violence in general, but some people fail to understand any other thing.

Dan

...although I did run over that guy. Maybe I should get anger management

gparent

And let's not talk about how effective schools are at preventing bullying...

or reacting to it..

Dan

21:43

@gparent Hah, yes, let's not.

RobM

@Dan again, you're living up to how I imagine you to be. I never thought you would be a violent person.

Dan

@RobM :)

RobM

I was a psycho at school, that's why I got enrolled in a martial art. The more capable I became at dealing out destruction the less I went crazy and found myself doing so

Dan

I just hate that there are certain people out there who think that they have some god given right to be a twat to people. And, as not everyone has the ability to stand up for themselves, I like to think I may be the person who will calm them down a little for next time

@RobM Seems reasonable

RobM

@dan agreed. It's such a weird mentality. I just don't understand it. Defending yourself is one thing but people who go looking to cause trouble...

Dan

21:48

@RobM I may have mentioned it here (I was pretty shocked, tbh) but when I was running in the summer (with Jane, no less) we ran past a group of lads. 30 seconds later I heard footsteps and one was behind with a stick about to crack me across the head with it. I'd had no contact with any of them before that. I mean, WTF? Why even do that

RobM

Jesus... I just don't get those kinda people at all. What happened?

voretaq7

@gparent I had far better control of my violent impulses back in school

now I've just fucking had it with people - I hate everyone and every thing, and if people piss me off I'm not above knocking them on their ass.

Dan

@RobM In short, and I wish it were classier, I threatened to break his nose with a headbutt if he came any closer. He did that hard man "Sorry mate, didn't hear what you said" thing. So I walked up to him and reiterated and asked him what he was going to do next. He apologised, said he was just "messing about" and went back to his mates

Iain

Less than 400 questions in the close vote queue

RobM

What an ass @dan - unbelieveable.

voretaq7

21:51

@Dan yeah, see, the people by you are fucking retarded howler monkeys

RobM

@voretaq7 remind me not to annoy you then

voretaq7

around here roving gangs of thugs generally expect that the guy they're about to pick on can and will fight back with lethal force

(as a result there are far fewer roving gangs of thugs)

Dan

@RobM Oh and by stick, I mean like a branch. Yeah, I was just gobsmacked - I can handle a bit of "run forest run", that's par for the course, but I'm not going to be hit by some scrote when I'm minding my own business

RobM

yeah

voretaq7

@Dan your response seems perfectly classy to me

RobM

21:52

Agreed

voretaq7

I would have been hard pressed not to ensure he wouldn't be attempting to breed for a few days

nothing wrong with a punk-ass kid that can't be solved by a good running shoe to the dangly bits.

Dan

@voretaq7 On a serious note, over here that would have undoubtedly ended up with me being arrested

voretaq7

@Dan yeah, because your laws are fucked.

Over here as soon as you have a reasonable fear for your own safety (dude brandishing a tree branch certainly counts in my book) you can take reasonable and justifiable steps to protect yourself

Dan

I've already fallen foul of the law once, so I am a hell of a lot more measured in my actions now.

RobM

@voretaq7 not only would @dan be arrested but all this kid's mates would be prepared to swear in court that they were out doing charitable works, and their friend had just finished helping an old lady across the road when @dan came from nowhere and attacked them all unprovoked.

voretaq7

21:54

you'll probably still get arrested and have to go to court, but as long as you don't keep kicking the little punk after he goes down you'll probably walk out the other side clean as the virgin snow.

Dan

@RobM Exactly, and that's the absolute real truth of it

@voretaq7 I like your laws better, wanna hear my other story?

voretaq7

@Dan our laws only work like that if you get a good lawyer

but sure

(a side benefit to our laws is that generally the guy with the lousy lawyer has to pay the bills for the good lawyer)

Dan

Basically, a few years back, I was getting home from a long drive in the camper van (I'd been to London helping a friend with his car). I was stopped at a set of red traffic lights when I car pulled up alongside.

As he pulls away, I follow him, only to notice the lights were still on red. I briefly tapped my horn (as we were now both half way across a red light). Well, to say that lit the touch paper would be an understatement - he went absolutely ballistic

gparent

Here if I kicked the shit out of someone in high school after they bullied me it would probably just be school suspension.

Assuming under 18.

RobM

There's something very strange about what happens to people behind a wheel

voretaq7

21:59

@RobM seriously. I've had people go off on me for flashing (once, as a courtesy warning) and passing them when they're doing 30mph in a 55mph zone.

Dan

@RobM Well, the end result is that he blocked me in at a red light about a mile up the road (After trying to block me in before, but I just sat there and waited), got out the car, and threatened to "fucking stab" me

So, this happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7zLMoN1fwQ

voretaq7

I've got the NCPD aggressive driving hotline programmed into my phone, so I can literally "Siri, call the cops" these days.

@Dan yeah, around here that would be ADW

you're in the vehicle, so you're presumed safe

Dan

@voretaq7 Apparently so, I did not feel safe, however

voretaq7

even if they smash your windows the car is some kind of magical protection and if you use it to make them stop trying to kill you you're the bad guy

our laws aren't THAT sensible here.

Dan

Nor do I believe I should have to sit and take someone threatening to kill me. The really annoying thing is that he actually stepped in front of me - you can just about see that on the video

Had he stayed where he was, I'd never have touched him

voretaq7

22:01

Personally I would have done the same thing

RobM

@dan I certainly can't blame you for any of that. What a twat

Dan

@voretaq7 There's far more story than I could write here, because the whole thing was absolutely insane from start to finish. But, the prosecution really tried to push - fortunately the police officer 'only' arrested me for Dangerous Driving, but I was still in possible prison and definite job losing territory.

And then, when the case came round (Crown court, no less, for the UKers) the judge saw some sense and bitch whipped the prosecution into accepting a guilty plea for driving without due care

RobM

thank goodness

Dan

So, the end result wasn't too bad in all honesty. No worse than driving on a mobile phone, but it was a very bad year

@RobM Judges first comments were "Well, I've seen worse"

RobM

heh... a human judge for once

Dan

22:04

Mind you, I knew it was going well when my barrister pointed out that the very same judge had given my "victim" a suspended sentence 2 years prior

voretaq7

@Dan my first comment would have been "And sir why did you exit your vehicle on a motorway, after obstructing traffic?"

Dan

Oh, I forgot, he's in jail now for armed robbery

@voretaq7 Not a motorway, just a minor town road

Kyle Brandt

@voretaq7: Ya, testing from localhost actually works better with my home network apparently :-P

voretaq7

@Dan we don't distinguish here :)

RobM

@dan he sure sounds like a classy person

Dan

22:05

@RobM The judge seemed to be the only person in the entire thing who actually seemed to care what happened

voretaq7

@KyleBrandt ab has always been flaky for me with remote connections, 's part of why I think it's a shit tool :-x

RobM

yeah. too many automatons in the system these days

Dan

@RobM I had to change my first solicitor because it turned out she'd represented him. 5 times.

voretaq7

but it's adequate enough that I've never gone looking for better

RobM

fucking hell. Scrotes that need to be represented 5 times should just be locked up

voretaq7

22:06

@RobM eh, I'd agree with that if I didn't have friends who have actually been arrested for DWB

(a couple of them more than once)

Dan

DOn't be silly, Rob, it was just kids stuff.

Possession with intent to supply (x2)
Burglary (x2)
Driving without a license
Driving without insurance
Driving without tax
Leaving the scene of an accident
Taking without consent

RobM

@voretaq7 I'm talking about a specific kind of person

Dan

There was more I forget

RobM

^ that kind

voretaq7

@RobM So am I -- the kind cops around here seem to assume are that kind

@Dan "taking without consent"?

RobM

22:08

I remember someone trying to run me off the road when we were trying to arrest them once. That was fun.

Dan

@voretaq7 Oh that's an odd one, car theft basically

voretaq7

is that the UK equivelent of petit theft?

RobM

its theft of a motor vehicle

voretaq7

ok, "grand theft, auto" then?

Dan

@RobM You were trying to arrest them?

voretaq7

22:08

yall have some interesting laws

RobM

@dan yes. Yes we were. We had a warrant for their arrest and were trying to execute it.

Dan

@RobM C'mon, you know what my next question is!

RobM

he lost the "discussion", if that was it?

voretaq7

"taking without consent"
"What'd he take?"
"My panties!"
>"She said it was OK to bang 'er officer!"
"I said you could have my virginity, not my underwear you fucking PERV!"

Dan

@RobM No, I'm wondering what your job was at the time

RobM

22:10

ah... County Court Bailiff...

Dan

@RobM Ah, crazy

RobM

yep. Interesting one for sure

voretaq7

@RobM our county court bailiffs don't get to do anything fun.

RobM

we did :-)

voretaq7

Then again I live in the part of the state where the state police don't patrol state highways

(like it's actually, officially, not their jurisdiction. They're not allowed to patrol them.)

RobM

22:11

that sounds weird

Dan

I was just looking for the summing up statement but I can't find it

voretaq7

@RobM it is. On Long Island county police patrol County and State roads and the interstates, state police patrol the parkways.

Oh and State Park Police patrol the state universities.

RobM

we just have police, basically

voretaq7

But if any of them happen to be just driving along and see you do something illegal they can all pull your ass over and write you the summons. The only difference is whose courthouse you have to go to.

MikeyB

We just got asked to quote 6GB DIMMs and 8GB DIMMs so they can compare the price difference. To reach 96GB on a blade with 12 DIMM slots.

voretaq7

22:14

oh how delightfully simplistic for you!

We have
State Police
State Park Police
County Sheriff
County Police
[Optional: Village Sheriff]
[Optional: Village Police]
MTA Police

wfaulk

https://github.com/RailsApps/rails-composer/
"Your best source for help with problems is Stack Overflow."

Dan

@voretaq7 That's like Italy, their shit confuses me

voretaq7

plus Postal Police (federal)
and in NYC Sanitation Police and a few others

RobM

postal police? sanitation police?
I don't even...

voretaq7

we also have auxiliary police attached to county (and sometimes village) police forces

Iain

22:16

We have dock and tunnel police locally

voretaq7

@RobM Technically Postal Police are The USPIS

Dan

@Iain They're kind of special, like Transport Police and the MOD Police

RobM

what do they do? Chase people down and arrest them for not putting enough stamps on mail?

voretaq7

@RobM Sanitation Police are an actual Law Enforcement job under NYC DSS though

helps to post the right links

@RobM or stamp fraud, postal fraud, shipping contraband, etc.

Iain

@Dan yeah they have limited jurisdiction I believe and don't carry weapons like MoD plods doo

voretaq7

22:17

@Iain that's part of MTA Police around here usually

Dan

I suppose London gets kind of complex because they have the Diplomatic Protection Group and so on

But either way, most people will only ever encounter the normal kind of police man

RobM

yeah

Iain

@Dan I've encountered normal, MoD, Tunnel and Port police over the years

voretaq7

@RobM oh we also have Harbor Police (Bay Constables & Harbormasters), which technically overlaps with County Police Marine Divisions

but that's not unusual on the east coast

Dan

@Iain Encounter as in seen, or been stopped by them?

voretaq7

22:20

@Dan Encounter as in "flip the license plate and floor it, Bond!"

Dan

@voretaq7 LD

voretaq7

Every so often in NY/NJ you'll hear about a police chase that winds up with the suspect driving into a tunnel

Iain

@Dan Tunnel police used to have an account at a petrol station I worked at as a teenager. I've been on several MoD sites and I go fishing on the docks in Liverpool - they usually stop by and ask how it's going

Dan

@Iain That makes more sense :D Bear in mind MoD Police differ from military police

voretaq7

Sometimes that's not as dumb as it sounds. Other times they're talking about like the Holland tunnel (1.5 miles) -- like seriously, you don't think there will be cops waiting for you on the other side?

Dan

22:22

@voretaq7 :D

voretaq7

@Iain "Terrible. I still haven't found that plutonium I dropped here last week!"

Dan

@voretaq7 I don't have a phobia, but I don't really like tunnels

voretaq7

(and we never heard from him again)

Iain

@Dan yep - again having been on MoD sites you get to meet them all

voretaq7

@Dan Y U HATE TUNNEL?

Dan

22:23

@Iain :) I was at an army training camp last month. They have such a specific "feel" about them, it's weird

@voretaq7 They're creepy

voretaq7

You prefer bridge, @Dan?

Because read that article ^^ and you won't anymore :)

WesleyDavid

I get really nervous in tunnels when I'm driving friends to work.
I think I have carpool tunnel syndrome.

Iain

@Dan Mostly I was on RAF sites - but I've been on a couple of army and yes they do have a different feel

Dan

@voretaq7 I'll ignore the article, especially as I'm visting, but yeah, I prefer a bridge. Though I do have a fear of heights, too. (I refuse to call it a phobia, it's just self preservation)

Iain

@WesleyDavid your hat and coat - the taxi is waiting ------>

Dan

22:25

@Iain I spent a chunk of time on RAF bases when I was an air cadet. I really miss them

voretaq7

@Dan In that case you owe it to yourself to drive over the ~~fucking deathdrap~~ Tapan Zee Bridge

Iain

@Dan which ones ?

voretaq7

It's like a roller-coaster, only with infinitely more danger of catastrophic structural failure sending you plunging into the water below.
And potholes. Lots of potholes.

Dan

@Iain Oof, been a few years. Off the top of my head I remember RAF Kinloss, Brize Norton, St Mawgan, Waddington, Cosford (Which barely counts to be fair), Benson

Kinloss will always be my favourite, mostly because I got to fly in a Nimrod and see the ARCC

Iain

@Dan I've been to Brize and Cosford from that list. Sealand, Luffenham, Odiam, Valley, and various other small sites on the east coast

Dan

22:32

@Iain Oof, can't believe I forgot Valley. We didn't stay there long. Cosford is only a couple of junctions down the M54 for me - 15 minute drive

Were you working?

(And why do I keep saying oof)

Iain

@Dan Yeah I was working

voretaq7

@Dan Part bloodhound. Missing the W

Iain

@Dan I like fishing on the beach at the end of the runway at Valley - get to catch fish and watch the jets fly in and out

Dan

@Iain It takes a certain kind of person, but I know exactly what you mean. I stayed in a B&B next to Linton-On-Ouse (By coincidence, didn't even know it was there when I booked) and I think they must have had one of the first active service Eurofighters that weekend. I was in my element, could watch that shit all day long

Right then, bed time!

See you all tomorrow

mmmshuddup

22:50

hey again guys

@voretaq7 I got all my data recovered!

voretaq7

@mmmshuddup cool

mmmshuddup

@voretaq7 in retrospect I think I was going about it all wrong anyway.. Trying to make my linux partition itself bootable. What I plan to do now is make my usb drive bootable and use that to install linux on my external hdd

Zoredache

23:15

@mmmshuddup you could always skip the rocess and just setup Linux in a VM.

Or you know. When you are partitioning anything, make sure your backup drive is disconnected, so you don't trash your backup.

Hennes

Is not a backup always disconnected except when making backups?

mmmshuddup

true haha

I will buy another drive and mirror this one to it

Adrian

@RobM Back in college I nearly got fired for making unwelcome remarks. My supervisor made a nasty comment about me being a "rather sickly bugger" (chronic bronchitis that semester), and I mentioed that she had stuck me out in the ticket booth for 3 straight weeks in an Upstate NY Winter and that at 125lbs I wasn't quite so comfortably padded.

mmmshuddup

@Adrian that doesn't sound like "unwelcome remarks" :S

Adrian

@mmmshuddup She was a big girl. And apparently very sensitive about it. Probably could've bench-pressed my scrawny ass, frankly. Nowadays I'd use a little more tact, but Tylenol Cold and DayQuil at 7pm starting a 6 hours shift in the ticket booth made me a little foggier than I usually was.

Hennes

23:29

I currently backup via an eSATA docking station. Works, but I still got the main data store and the backup in the same home.

If there is a fire or theft I will loose both. :(

Mark Henderson

Just realised I spent 30 minutse answering a question for someone who has only ever issued one upvote

2

A: Considerations for spanned volumes with SAN's LUN.

Time for some science, bitches. The test setup: Windows 7 x64 2Gb RAM Virtual Machine on ESXi 5.0 LUN 1: 5Gb Thick Provisioned on 2x HP P4000 Lefthand Cluster 1 exposed via iSCSI (2x 1Gb MPIO) LUN 2: 5Gb Thick Provisioned on 2x HP P4000 Lefthand Cluster 2 exposed via iSCSI (2x 1Gb MPIO) We ha...

I hope I didn't waste my time

Hennes

LUN1 was 5 gigaBIT ?

mmmshuddup

@Adrian lol perfectly understandable. I've been known to get testy with bosses in crucial times such as those mentioned

Mark Henderson

@Hennes No?

Each LUN was 5Gb in size

mmmshuddup

@MarkHenderson What's up with that? I've given over 1000 already. i've seen users that have tons of rep and have only upvoted like 300 times for example

Mark Henderson

23:32

For that test I also turned off round robin and fixed the connections to a single path so it wouldn't hammer all of the available banwdith

mmmshuddup

there is one user who is the reason I no longer visit the PHP chat at SO, he has given twice as many downvotes as upvotes :O I mean geez (and mostly on questions I might add so as not to lose points himself)

Mark Henderson

@mmmshuddup I don't know. People are lazy, forget, don't know, who knows

@mmmshuddup Fark, that's someone who is hard to please. Mind you there's an awful lot of shit answers in PHP

But that's more the fault of PHP than the users

mmmshuddup

yeah that is true I will give him that. but I make it a habit to always upvote as long as the question or answer was helpful. Even if I'm just working and looking for a quick answer on something at google and get directed to SO. I'll see the answer and upvote quick and then leave

Hennes

@MarkHenderson Not quite the result I expected. Which shows why testing stuff can be important

Mark Henderson

@Hennes A span is just a way of joining two JBODs. It just writes stuff onto Disk A and then onto Disk B when A is full

mmmshuddup

23:35

@MarkHenderson lol I just realized that even on serverfault I have 39 upvotes total. Which is a lot considering the fact that I rarely end up at this site

Mark Henderson

It's pretty shit, if you're going to do that then a stripe is the way to go. But with a stripe you have to have matched partition sizes, whereas spans let you just grow as required, and doesn't require any dicking with your data. It just adds more space

Hennes

Aye, that is one way of using a span. But I would have expected it to alternate sectors (e.g. all even sectors mapped to drive 1, all odd sectors to drive 2)

Mark Henderson

I have a client who used to have a VPS from a DC where every time they requested more disk space, the DC would create a new LUN for the required size, add it to their VM and then span it. They had 14 disks in a single SPAN. When they realised thats what was happening (they didn't really bother checking) instead of just growing the LUN, they dropped the VPS and moved elsewhere

mmmshuddup

delv-pls serverfault.com/questions/432458/…

Mark Henderson

@Hennes Hmm, yeah I guess, but then I guess you'd get inconsistencies when you grow it. Because it doesn't re-stripe you'd end up with some files on Disk A, some on A/B and some on A/B/C and some just on C and some just on A/C and some just on B/C, etc

mmmshuddup

23:38

thanks guys

Mark Henderson

Which I guess will happen a little bit, but perhaps less

Hennes

Aye.

Mark Henderson

shrug I don't really know enough about the Windows storage subsystems

mdadm in Linux is very well known and documented, Windows spanning, not so much

Hennes

Neither do I. Every time I played with windows it was on hardware RAID.

Mark Henderson

@Hennes I've used a few soft-raid on Windows. It was a nightmare :P

0

Q: Expand Windows Server 2008 RAID 5 array

I have a Windows 2008 Standard server. It currently has 3x 1TB drives in Software RAID 5 (as per the Disk Management Console). I need to add another 2x 1TB drives. Is there any way to add these two disks into the existing RAID 5 array without any data loss, or without having to back everything ...

windows-server-2008 software-raid

1

Q: Server 2008 Raid-5 strangeness

I have a 5-disk RAID-5 array in an SBS 2008 server, and it's been working fine for > 12 months now, but today I logged in to find this in the disk management console: Of the five-disk array, it seems to have doubled itself up. Array 1: Disk 1 & 5 are fine, Disk 2,3,4 are "Missing" Array ...

windows-server-2008 software-raid

mmmshuddup

23:41

@MarkHenderson haha it sucks for you guys when you have questions and since you guys are the goto then you end up answering it yourself

Hennes

growing large RAID 5 arrays is easy. Step 1 is a backup. step 3 is to restore that backup

step 2 is not waiting for ages while trying to do it live :)

Mark Henderson

@mmmshuddup More than once I've asked a question, got no answer, and ended up answering it myself days later

Hennes

I have been on SU and SF for over a year now. (noticed that by getting a gold thingy in SU). But I only ever asked a single question.

mmmshuddup

@MarkHenderson ha yeah it happens. that has happened to me at SO but then I just deleted the question (I was new at the time). I don't ask questions here unless I've reached the end of my witts though

Hennes

I learn a lot from just reading though

mmmshuddup

23:43

@Hennes same here. also I've learned a lot from answering people's questions. in the end it's ironic that I didn't know the answer either, looked it up and tested it and then gave it away for free :P

Hennes

Yes, that too. (to) ?

mmmshuddup

too* is correct

programming is a bit different though. as far as servers go, nothing will ever beat know-how and experience. explicit instructions are scary at times especially when operating as a privileged user (as I learned the hard way yesterday). you know what I mean?

Hennes

Explicit as in 'select the third button'. And not in 'select the install option' ?

mmmshuddup

@Hennes haha no. GUI stuff is almost always much easier to follow.. I was referring to CLI

like yesterday. I scoured the man pages for dd but I still felt inadequate for the task...though I tried anyway. and failed :)

Hennes

This is why you can test in a vm. And I do use a nice GUI frontend for VMs (vmware workstation)

But CLI usage can be easy. It just needs comments.

Journeyman Geek

23:49

CLI is easier cause instructions can be more explicit

@mmmshuddup: dd has an unusual command structure

mmmshuddup

yeah I used to use VMware. that was years ago. then a while back I found that they seemingly changed the name o fa lot of their products and I wasn't sure which was which so I just got VirtualBox instead

Hennes

E.g. dd if=/dev/fd0h1440 of=my_backup_image bs=18k # use an 18k block size to match drive tracks and speed things up

Journeyman Geek

o0

they just killed off vmware server

otherwise the product line is the same

mmmshuddup

:O. oh well I don't know then. either way I wasn't sure which tool I needed at a quick glance so I went with VBox. which is no longer my friend either.

Hennes

As far as I can tell vmware changed from "vmware" (version 1) to "vmware player" (only plays back one existing VMs), vmware workstation (multiple VMs in a nice tabbed way) and vmware server. Oh, and the enterprise stuff which names are insane

mmmshuddup

23:52

oh. well that's a much nicer explanation

@Hennes why is it even necessary to set block size?

Mark Henderson

@Hennes I just ran that on a Windows striped pair over the two LUNs and got 180MB/sec reads and 150MB/sec writes, which is 1.8x and 1.5x the span. Which is pretty much what I expected.

Hennes

if you do not set it it will use the default. I think that is 512 bytes

mmmshuddup

@Hennes ahhhhh good to know

Hennes

If I dd one megabyte in 512 bytes chunks then that is 2097152 transactions

If I do that in still reasonably chunks of 1MB it is 1024 transtactions

Much less overhead

mmmshuddup

it's still a bit hazy to me the diff between dd and cp. so far the only real difference I see is that with dd you have way more options and control.. also dd explicitly specifies that it copies from stdin to stdout which is weird to me that they mention that.

Hennes

23:55

And I expect the OS to do sane stuff with buffering

DD is not for copying (though it is used that way). DD is a reblocker

mmmshuddup

ahh

Hennes

You needed DD when all reads from a sun CDROM where 2048 bytes and you wanted 512 byte chunks. Or vice versa

But you can abuse dd as a copy. Ditto for cat

mmmshuddup

kinda like this:?

Hennes

That is a nice child in that cat suit

mmmshuddup

LOL

Hennes

23:59

Of check: default input and output settings for DD are indeed 512 bytes.

mmmshuddup

wow I found this enlightening read on dd that I am currently perusing: codecoffee.com/tipsforlinux/articles/036.html

Transcript for