HA! I was right. Our Devs weren't sanitizing any inputs for our in-house apps.

@JeffFerland 's a good system.

I could've done a SQL injection attack by stuffing a DROP DATABASE right after a mere apostrophe

@Adrian APPLAUSE!

@Adrian ...so your apps run as (sys)DBA?

Tom O'DROP DATABASE;Connor

@Adrian Who has two thumbs and isn't the least fucking bit shocked? Everybody in this room.

@voretaq7 No, but the database user that has RW has it by dint of having ALL PRIVILEGES

@Adrian They don't used prepared statements?

@Zoredache Nope.

Have they even HEARD of prepared statements?

@Adrian IT CRIES!

@MichaelHampton YOU'RE ALWAYS PREPARING- JUST GO!

@MichaelHampton Probably not. What do you expect for $35k/year.

Oh trust me, I've written my share of bad code, and even failed to sanitize inputs.

You pay your devs $35k/year, in Seattle?

How does your software even work?

@Zoredache He works at a "non-profit".

Which, in Seattle, means the devs are people whose resumes Microsoft would burn without even looking at them.

@MichaelHampton Exactly. Taking advantage of people that "want to give back".

@MichaelHampton That too.

Also means we generally hire people that hate Microsoft since we're a F/OSS shop.

wish I could find the desert scene

@Adrian I hope you are making progress on your exit strategy.

damnit, i couldnt get an iphone 5 pre-order in and now ATT's estimates are 14-21 days

@MichaelHampton Oh yes. It's been getting worse instead of better.

@David That's ok, you probably won't want one after you see one.

@MichaelHampton wrong

@MichaelHampton IDK I need to hold one and see if my giant thumb can still reach all 4 corners

I, at least, admit to my mistakes.

I lol'd at this for some reason

@MichaelHampton Considering the level of stupidity I tolerate, I'm kind of on the fence about how unethical it would be to study my Cisco stuff instead of do my tickets since it's tangentially related to things I might be doing in my daily work if this place wasn't so fscked up.

its all stupid state of CA's fault

i have a premier account connected to my dad's work

@MichaelHampton . . . "Fix the fucking bug" ?

and the premier website is BS

@voretaq7 That's a given. It's all the shit that happens AFTER you fix the fucking bug that I was asking about.

i even tried to pre-order from the ATT store today before work

and they told me I couldnt, only my dad can

@Adrian Resume. :)

@MichaelHampton . . . "Don't do it again." <-- ? :-)

@JeffFerland You're on the wrong coast. =)

@voretaq7 Hahaha :) I even fixed a couple of bugs along the same lines that the asshole DIDN'T find.

@David just go stand in line like the other 99% of the world on saturday

@Adrian West coast is the wrong coast?

@lsiunsuex i'll have to take my dad :(

so dumb

@JeffFerland Wait what? I thought you were in Maine?

@Adrian I moved to California.

they said i have access to do everything EXCEPT add a line (which is what I need to do)

@JeffFerland telecommute?

i have to take my wife :( i'm not eligable till may 2013 - buy it as her - swap the sim cards - give her my 4s

@Adrian Sorry :(

@JeffFerland Yeah, I'm not rigged up to go to California.

@MichaelHampton yeah that's pretty much it

yeah @lsiunsuex, im may 2013 too. but my dad is retiring at the end of the year and only has a work phone, so we're adding him to our family plan (but he also is the account holder on the family plan)

I'm seriously pondering tele-commute jobs though, long as I don't take a big pay cut.

gonna get a 5 on his new line and then swap phones with him (my 4S for him)

And that would be tough to do considering where I work now.

@MichaelHampton at least some percentage of the population will be big on "Full disclosure" to the exclusion of responsibility - when they screw you just roll your eyes, fix it fast, and release an update.

@voretaq7 Yeah I know. I fixed it the moment I heard about it. The problem came three months later when it turned up in the CVE database with wrong information.

such BS, AT&T store was like "we need voice confirmation and him to swipe his ID in this machine)

@voretaq7 So I figured it would make a good question for security.SE

@MichaelHampton if you contact CVE they can fix the wrong info -- aside from fixing it there I wouldn't worry about it

@voretaq7 Yep, I'm not worrying much about it. It's fixed, update or go to hell.

IMHO anyone with sense sees a vulnerability report, scans for the CVE ID, and reads the CVE data before going any further

@voretaq7 That's what I do. Second thing I do is hit redhat.com and paste the CVE into their search box.

@MichaelHampton usually I find out about the relevant ones through twitter or [email protected] and the CVE link is right there

@voretaq7 Share your knowledge, Q&A-style!

occasionally it comes to me through a longer route and it's a day old.

@MichaelHampton I don't know SHIT! spits

i'm going to be laughed at come 9/22 and i only have a measly 4s

@David 4s supports everything the 5 does.

except the bigger screen.

And 4G

^

4s is still a solid phone

I already have iOS 6

But that's ok, AT&T doesn't HAVE very much actual 4GLTE

@David Hell, I only moved from a 3GS to a 4S 6 weeks ago

@David Oh, and all your apps will be letterboxed.

@JeffFerland lol

... and that's because my 3GS decided to have reception issues

@JeffFerland old school

my dad still has a 3GS though

I was holding out for 5. I didn't make it. :(

plus, the 5 looks cooler

all black/dark grey

so slick

@MichaelHampton Definitely look into setting up a security report channel (and bug tracker in general :-)

Ya, moving to github

@David I want to see one in person before I say it's cooler looking

the videos always make apple products look like a plate of awesome smothered in awesomesauce

You get to choose between black or white!

I was impressed by the first iPhone. Since then it's been one boring blah after the next.

There's nothing quite like the recruiter who sends me an email with all the notes about how to screen candidates still attached at the bottom.

@MichaelHampton the 4s impressed me

@voretaq7 What about the 4S impressed you?

the new one... bigger screen is a meh (it may not fit in some of my pockets now), A6 chip is pretty cool.

@MichaelHampton Mostly the new iOS features, the dual-line antenna is pretty slick, overall design is nicer than the 3G and 1st Gen.

@voretaq7 looks good enough to me from the pics and vids ive seen

So do we have to wait for iOS 7 for proper multiple-screen-size support, or is that just never going to happen?

@MichaelHampton what's "proper"?

PCD?

letterboxing is really the only way to handle this

@voretaq7 Not rendering the app with a huge black border?

@David personal communications device

lol

@MichaelHampton What would you suggest? All other solutions are equally suboptimal (or actively worse)

@voretaq7 I've done a bit of Android dev, and handling a wide variety of screen sizes just comes along with the territory. It sucks for the developer, but that's the price of offering a good user experience.

I mean, this is like having a window on your screen that you can't resize.

To completely misparaphrase someone: 80x24 ought to be good enough for everybody!

@MichaelHampton its good enough for IBM !

upscaling the old apps doesn't work (because the screen isn't any wider - you'd fuck aspect ratios up one side and down the other, or worse lose borders).

@voretaq7 The problem is Apple should have thought of this WAY earlier. YEARS ago.

Hell, the iPad should have been a clue that they needed to think about this.

@MichaelHampton What do you expect Apple to do about it?

@MichaelHampton if apple thought of everything to begin with, then there would be no room for improvement.

@Zoredache Stop writing shitty code?

@MichaelHampton they did. You can include the elements for the iPad's bigger screen, or you can 2x your non-iPad-aware application.

techcrunch.com/2012/09/13/the-iphone-5-event i think this is a very good explanation of why the majority of people that are upset about the design, are upset about the design

@MichaelHampton The code isn't Apple's

Wait, you're trying to tell me that every app developer hard-coded a screen size into their app?

You haven't proposed an alternate solution that doesn't require developers to GASP DEVELOP software yet...

@Zoredache the API is what @MichaelHampton is talking about.

And it's not an artifact of the APIs?

@voretaq7 I propose Apple create an API that makes it possible for developers to develop. It's not all that hard.

@MichaelHampton no, I'm telling you the API lets them handle the multiple screen sizes (and if you've looked at the SDK the iPad solution is actually pretty darn elegant) - they just have to make their software aware of it (rather than the OS just saying "You have a shit ton of graphics at the old aspect ratio. I'mma just stretch them for you and totally fuck everything up")

but you are proposing that apple consider every possible adaptation and development of their product line. that's impossible.

@voretaq7 Aha, I see. So the app developers ARE fucking it up.

@longneck Seems like if you where building all your apps with simple HTML 5 code, and not trying to force some fixed layout, then a slight change to the screen size shouldn't matter.

@MichaelHampton they may or may not be fucking it up, but to handle a different size screen they need to make their code aware of the different sizes -- how much work that is depends on their code

@Zoredache android does that, provided you use only a subset of the display API. i think the iOS API has something similar.

@longneck I believe it does but it does severely restrict you (I know Foreflight had to add some iOS 6 calls so the app would know it's OK to use the bigger screen size, and how to do it)

something like a dead-simple RSS reader using the canned APIs may not need any changes though - it'll just grow and show you one more story on the list

the restriction (in android) is you define a bunch of controls, tell it how to stack/pack them, and also mark which ones are allowed to grow and how. kind of like GTK.

@longneck or qt

@voretaq7 Good example. So on Android you generally make a layout and you align your elements with the screen corners or edges, or the center of the screen. So on a different size display no element has to be "stretched". The big window where a map would appear just gets bigger, and more map shows up.

right.

@MichaelHampton Yup - and no reason you can't do that with iOS except your other elements may be resolution-dependent

The map doesn't get stretched out of shape just because it's on a perfectly square screen or something bizarre.

@voretaq7 So all along, these app developers have been assuming there were only two screen sizes (and before that, one) to ever worry about?

@voretaq7 The big problem of course is that iPhone devs have had the same screen size now for 5 years and probably have gotten extremely lazy, and simply used some stupid fixed layout that isn't going to change easily.

If everything is vectorized and resolution independent you can go to town with sizes and shapes. If someone uses a square button that's 10x10 pixels and doesn't specify anything else about it how do I know if it's OK to stretch that to be 10x12 or I have to maintain its aspect ratio?

But that isn't Apple's fault. That is just lazy developers being lazy.

@voretaq7 Google uses a PNG file with added data on the edges to say where an image can and cannot be stretched. It works out quite well.

(and even THAT isn't the whole story: Retina is really just 4x or 8x the first so AGAIN Apple was generous and said "If you don't load Retina capable data we'll just upscale your pixels by 4 so it looks the same as it always did")

IOW "Apple has been coddling these fucking pansy ass developers for four years. Kwitchyerbitchin and write some fucking code!"

:-)

@MichaelHampton That's not a bad system.... bet it's patented :P

Hm, never heard about any patents for it.

did any news ever come out of the Samsung going to prevent iphone 5 import?

or was that just B?

BS*

I thought that was in Korea?

ionno, i only saw the headline while skimming a few days ago

"Taiwanese electronic giant HTC aims to block iPhone 5's import in the US for patent violation. The Taiwanese manufacturer claims that Apple's new iPad and the upcoming iPhone 5 infringe upon two of its patents that ensure reliable data transfer in large volumes, according to a story in the Bloomberg Businessweek."

"All Samsung needs to confirm is that the iPhone 5 is shipping with 4G LTE and it can then apparently set its lawyers into action. As is typical with these patent lawsuits, Samsung will most likely seek an import ban meaning the iPhone 5 may not be able to leave its manufacturing plants and make it to the US to fulfill pre-orders."

@David yeah, if it is a legit dispute it's over a standards-essential patent so Apple will just cough up some money and it goes away. iShiny profit margins are like 48% so this might drop them down to a terrifyingly narrow 47% ZOMG NOES! :-P

lol

and... yanno... this

would totally suck if samsung won somehow

and apple had to delay the release

not for me

::basks in his ineligibility to upgrade:: :-D

just cough up the $450 in november

@David ...or get something new in May/June of next year.

oh both

or*

in my case, add new line for dad w/ iPhone 5, give him my 4S and swap SIM cards, then when the 5S or 6 comes out, upgrade my line to it for the cheap price of $200

win win

@ChrisS my new phone will be here tuesday

WTF Markdown...

also fuck you VZW for not letting me buy a non contract phone at the store

@Zypher I have an old phone compared to you guys. And a lot of extra spending money too

haha, my Thunderbolt is 2 years old now

@Zypher Did you see my message in here from last night? You've got me wondering now.

Droid RAZR Maxx on the way

@ChrisS uhh maybe?

ohh that

i'll have to look

@Zypher I have one. I think you'll like it. I'm not a big fan of some of the Moto customizations though, myself.

Nothing to waste too much time on... Just one of those numbers that doesn't feel right when you see it.

I guess my phone was only release May 2011... So it's not all that old. It was still only $90 w/o contract.

@MichaelHampton yea i was playing with it ... seemed much nicer

just wish i had it in hand right now but i'm done with the contract treadmill

@Zypher Still on contract here, upgraded right before the whole family share take away everyone's unlimited data the next time they upgrade bullshit.

yea ... i actuall did the math, and it's break even for me until i go over once then it's just extra money for them

I use less than 1GB per month... most months. Then once or twice a year I'll blow through 40-50GB in a week.

@MichaelHampton burned through over 3GB last month

Tethering on 4G is very, very nice. 25+Mbits/sec in the middle of nowhere? Hell yes.

(to be clear, my number was w/o tethering)

Try THAT with your iPhone :)

ha yea, i average 2 GB a month and spike pretty high

I think my max was 10GB in a month

@Zypher Do you get love notes from AT&T

@voretaq7 on VZW

they don't care

AT&T sends me "Yo, dude, you're using more data than the rest of NYC combined!" messages if I go over 2-3GB

@Zypher Yeah, until VZW throttles you.

They care, they just are hesitant to lose you as a customer over it.

@Adrian but they don't throttle me ...

and I reply back with "Yup. Unlimited. SUCK IT BITCHES!"

@MichaelHampton yes exactally ...

gf works for VZW. I hear lots of inside stuff that I probably shouldn't know.

And get the employee discount on my phone too :)

@Zypher Hell, they used to throttle me after 2GB.

@MichaelHampton I used to. I did support for their wireless network performance management software

VZW didn't throttle me after 50GB. I have never heard of them doing it to anybody else.

I think I knew more about the AT&T network than the AT&T managers

@Adrian Of course you did. Managers don't know anything about anything.

@MichaelHampton And I wouldn't assume that they don't want to lose customers anymore either. Especially grandfather'd customers.

@Zypher BTW, you need to flip a bit in a SQLite database on the phone to make "Mobile Hotspot" work. But USB tethering will work out of the box.

They were willing to lose me over porting a phone number that they didn't want to move between accounts.

@Adrian we're in NYC - outside of DC-to-Daylight our spectrum is so fucked you can't get above the "throttled" speeds anyway half the time :)

@MichaelHampton interesting ... bit flipping is fine by me :)

It also requires rooting the phone to get access to said SQLite database.

@voretaq7 Heh. I can get 500kb/s sitting outside a tent in the middle of Central Idaho.

@Zypher warranty-void-if-bit-is-flipped

meh

@Adrian yeah. that's below the throttled speed here in the civilized world

the times Big-T caps me I can't go over about 5Mbit instead of the usual 10 I get

@voretaq7 Hell, 3Mb/s is cruising speed in Seattle. We didn't get E911 until 2 years after federally mandated. They were happy enough to pay the fines instead.

@Adrian mmhmm... UN-CIVILIZED, I tell you what!

@Zypher Oh, and you get native IPv6. Enjoy.

@voretaq7 Uncivilized in fine by me though. Fewer assholes.

@MichaelHampton meh

:)

Any data connection less than 10Mbit/sec is a goddamn human rights violation!

you will have pry IPV4 out of my cold dead hands

(HashtagFirstWorldBandwidthProblems)

@Zypher Imagine a world without NAT.

@MichaelHampton Unlike 4G on Sprint, where you get "Carrier Grade NAT" IPv4 with each tower being their own 192.168.14/24 subnet.

@MichaelHampton They fucking couldn't - that's why there's NATv6!

@Adrian Oh, you still get carrier grade NAT IPv4 on VZW, nothing's changed there. But you get a global IPv6.

ehh nat doesn't bother me as much. every forgets the pain of troubleshooting this scheme ... its' the same one they used in IPX and it SUUUCKKKS

@MichaelHampton Fsck that noise. I'll stick with my 4S.

@Zypher Hush up and make your printer globally routable.

hahah

@voretaq7 Ask me about AT&T

"Tell me @JeffFerland, how do you feel about The Phone Company?"

@voretaq7 Well, first they scheduled my Internet installation for 2038....

@JeffFerland Seems legit.

@Zypher your new inferior phone

access-list 102 permit tcp any any port 9100 Insert Coin.

I.... I think I just got EuroPenisEnlargement spam at work

"Subject: Extra centimeters for her pleasure"

I suppose there are more centimeters than inches.

@ChrisS OHHH i actually think one of the limits there was the overtaxed internet connection @ the office at that time

@MichaelHampton well if you really want to impress a woman tell her your size in millimeters. (Just don't screw up the conversions or EVERYONE will laugh at you)

Markdown: synonym for, "Fuck you."

@JeffFerland Ayup... see and even if you said from A to ' someone might whip out a Blackberry keyboard...

Pardon me while I chuckle immaturely and repeat the phrase, "Whip out."

When you go upstairs to fix a PC that won't boot and there's someon laying in the middle of the floor, it's best to just turn around and go back to your desk.

markdown-defenestrates-widows

That horrible Outlook question is now at the top of /r/sysadmin

@MichaelHampton Note how the OP actually mean 6.1 million, not 61 million.

@tombull89 Yep, that came out later. He swears he miscounted. Which is possible.

But I expect the general consensus was either "ur doing it wrong" or "ur spammin"

That's a pretty big company that has 6.1M employees.....

@tombull89 Yes, to both.

It's now tied for second most downvoted question on superuser.

@MichaelHampton Dang, I've already downvoted it. I only regret that I have but one downvote per question to give for my profession.

@Adrian Don't worry, I've dropped a downvote and closevote on it.

@tombull89 It was already closed and reopened.

That thing needs to DIE DIE DIE.

@MichaelHampton well close it again dammit.

@tombull89 We should nickname that "dropping a deuce"

"Yeah, I dropped a deuce on that question."

I want to know who the two people were who upvoted it.

Watch out for incoming crap from SO!

how can people post text like that and not cry?

English is not their native language. Something where the text normally looks like that is.

@voretaq7 Spank you VERY much for saying that. I dunno how people can type up something like that which makes my eyes want to start bleeding.

Fscking Hell. How do you get the Padawans to even talk to each other before they go work on something? All 3 of them took off to go work on the same ticket using different routes.

@Adrian By punishing them all (such as with severe beatings or spontaneous reconfigurations of their PCs) any time they create duplication of effort amongst themselves.

@Adrian Enforce a policy that a ticket must be opened and taken by the technician actively working on it. Failure to comply with this policy is punished by forcing the padawan in question to play "Capacitor Catch"

@HopelessN00b I only have responsibility for their results, not authority over their actions.

@HopelessN00b Capacitor Catch is more fun. And @HopelessN00b you can play Capacitor Catch even if you have no direct authority over the padawan. All you need is physical proximity and a fairly lenient policy on "assault" in the workplace.

@HopelessN00b Welcome. You missed all the fun.

@HopelessN00b My way is more fun.

@MichaelHampton Oh, damn, what funs? I haven't yet pursued the happenings around here during my crazy day yet.

@HopelessN00b Get ready for your brain to bleed. superuser.com/q/474177/144961

@voretaq7 Oh, no doubt. You don't consider that a type of severe physical beating, though? The most amusing way of beating on someone I know of, granted...

@HopelessN00b no. It's just a harmless game.

If you're paying attention you know if the capacitor is charged or not

if you're not paying attention you have a 50/50 chance of getting a painful lesson in why you should pay attention when I'm talking.

but, OMFG. @MichaelHampton No kidding, I think I have developed a brain hemorrhage for reading that. Thanks. I'll have the doctor send the MRI bill to you for payment. :p

@HopelessN00b mmhmm, I expurgated it on SF

denied it existence I did.

It's very close to becoming SU's worst question ever

@voretaq7 Yeah, I guess you're right... it's not damaging like physical beating on someone with a spare switch. Just fun with using pain-compliance to motivate "proper" behavior. :)

@HopelessN00b oh I never said there was no chance of physical damage

> @Tejas If you or your client really is a spammer, do let me know, and I will actually post instructions for you on how to do this. Loading only 25,000 contacts into an Outlook client on a test VM has caused some pretty interesting and destructive issues.

@HopelessN00b Oh, you didn't.

Hehehe. Exploding MS software via massively overloading it is pretty fun.

boy, im tired

only 5 hours of sleep

^ Outlook with 60M contacts

right there.

was up till 2 trying to get an iPhone 5, then woke up @ 7

@David My retirement fund thanks you

@MichaelHampton Yeah, I did. It effed up the OS, as well as the ESX host and network subnet in my test environment. :D

also: FUCK.

Apple didn't close over $700.

I lost $5 :(

@HopelessN00b How in hell did it bring down your ESX host?

I wonder what he is going to do once he gets that into Outlook. Doesn't it have a 500 Recipient limit?

Kee-hrist. Talk about padawans seeing what they want to see even when it's dead wrong.

@HopelessN00b Yeah, I don't even have that much authority. The boss doesn't delegate any of that.

Oh, and it looks like the domain is throwing up too... exchange server hung, Domain Controller... maybe hung, wow... I'm so punching this up as a "Dear spammer, please do the following:" answer.

And yes, I'm working on the exit strategy.

Evening

@voretaq7 huh?

@Dan Evenin' Dan. Saw one of your relatives this morning. Was a red van, but otherwise identical.

@MichaelHampton Not sure... I'm guessing it's crashing everything by massively overloading networking and resource limits. Must be trying to look up all those contacts against the Exchange Server at once, or something. Wicked nifty.

@HopelessN00b Holy keerist.

@Adrian :D

oh lol

i failed though

but will still buy later

@David it's OK, you can go to the store in person and wait on the lines that drive massive marketing hype (and my stock price up). :-)

@voretaq7 oh i will

@MichaelHampton I should try this next in a non-domain test environment. I wonder if it would do the same thing, or react completely differently without all that server-client interaction stuff.

FFS. Users are also moving Asset Tags around.

@HopelessN00b The questioner was in a non-domain environment, apparently.

@Adrian WHUT?

OK... so now you have to asset tag your users

@Adrian Super Glue.

Just punch the ring right through their nipples.

@Adrian "Asset Tags?" Is that the name for those cool little stickers we use to play modified poker with at the office?

@MichaelHampton Padawan #2 refuses to use anything but blue gaffer tape.

@Adrian Tape them up and leave them outside?

@Adrian A live demonstration of the benefits of Super Glue is called for, then.

@MichaelHampton Yes, to be applied to the padawan's orifices. Especially since said padawan also refuses to update DHCP for any devices deployed except printers.

I'm seriously considering setting all his ports to 10M half-duplex.

@Adrian In that case, you super glue the padawan to the printer. And attach an asset tag just to be thorough.

@MichaelHampton The proper response is to find an employer that's not fscking crazy.

But that's not nearly as quick.

But more satisfying.

Well yes, that too.

@Adrian fuck that, drop 'em into vlan 1

(or vlan2 if you're one of those people who uses vlan 1 as the management vlan)

@voretaq7 Are you kidding? I don't even have permission to use VLANs here yet.

Different network have different manually-assigned & wired switches.

No VLANs?! Come on, that's 20th century technology!

@MichaelHampton Boss doesn't understand how they work yet. So I have to teach him enough for his to trust it.

Run.

. . . OK what's the appropriate flower to send as condolences for your environment being fucked so hard it died?

@voretaq7 Black tulips.

@Adrian just use fucking port-based vlans at least. Tell him it's black magic that splits the switch into chunks or something

@Adrian Black roses. On $_BOSS's desk.

Along with a horse head and a rotting fish wrapped in the NY Post.

@Adrian Sounds like my previous boss. We sub-rent office space to someone, they were just on our network with everything else, got IPs from our DHCP servers, used our AD servers for DNS, etc. I asked why we didn't vLAN them off and my boss said to not talk about it because it was a political problem. My arse, she just didn't know what I was talking about so that was her best excuse.

@voretaq7 Dear God No. If he doesn't understand it, it doesn't go in. I NEVER explain anything as 'magic'.

(It's not the fish or the rotting that's insulting there)

@Adrian yeah well it sounds like this one probably thinks FIRE is magic, so...

@ChrisS Yeah, when he's not 110% busy with the Devs he's micro-managing us too. Took me a week to convince him to add a Netbios alias to a Samba server instead of changing the main name.

It was a wash since it would've taken that long to fix everything that would've broken.

@Adrian How have you not quit?

@voretaq7 child support payments.

you should apply for the SE position on a telecommuting basis :)

Post a link to my resume' here and you can pin it. =)

Also on your resume under Strengths: "I put up with all this shit and didn't FUCKING CUT A BITCH"

@Adrian Those are based on income... Not that it would be "fair" to the kids....

@Adrian ::gestures frantically at the top of the star wall:: ==========>

@ChrisS or fair to the parent paying (because at least in NY they are based SOLELY on income and don't consider outlay for things like food, gas, and a place to live so your kids can visit)

Well, that horrible Outlook question got me a gold badge on SU. So it wasn't a total waste.

@voretaq7 It's messed up here... It's supposed to be based on income, maintaining equivalent financial status, and "shared" responsibility. But it's more commonly it's "Dad, what's your income?... OK, child support will be 40% of that. NEXT!"

@ChrisS yup

and that's 40% of your GROSS, not your net.