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15:00
where does the database live?
MSSQL clusters
again we split them across clusters
I'm assuming they've done that
to be fair we have no 10-member VC blocks, largest is 7 or 8 but most of ours are 2 or 4 'wide'
actually that's what I was buying those BL685's for that I mentioned the other week, an odd choice I know but the cost was too appealing and they're fine as an MSSQL cluster member
@Chopper3 So this isn't a crazy setup?
well, it is a bit, I can't see why it's done the way it is but there's probably a good reason I'm not aware of, I'd always rather have larger cluster, safety in numbers, plus you can deal with the peaks and troughs better and have more capacity in the event of a host failure. The just use vApps or Resource Pools to manage the load and security
15:08
@Chopper3 Oh, this company is a managed hosting/infrastructure firm.
Holy fork.
0
Q: Importing about 61M contacts into outlook

TejasI have a CSV file containing about 60 Millions email IDs. I want them in my Outlook. But when I try to import them, Outlook crashes every time. So is there any trick/shortcut by which I can get them in my Outlook? Please help ASAP.

so people lease their access to dedicated ESX servers and storage.
ah, ok
but the storage and networking infra is sometimes shared
r0ar
15:10
@Chopper3 so if Brazzers needs access to their 5-host ESX cluster, they can login with AD credentials and only see their "Datacenter" in vCenter.
@MichaelHampton well... it's not on topic here. Unless you intend to answer it I'm kicking its ass over to SU :)
@voretaq7 I'm only going to leave the comment I already left. Kick it wherever.
/dev/null would be a good place.
@ewwhite but if you had one big cluster they could log in and only see their VMs
s/Brazzers/BangBros/
backroomcastingcouch?
15:11
@ewwhite s/$porn1/$porn2/ ?
@Chopper3 ProTip: Never sit on the couch in a pornographer's office.
I actually did notice a few clients that were in that genre.
good work - usually pay their bills on time at least I hear
although I'll admit... there are clients that pay upwards of $100k/mo.
so it's an interesting note to see where IT infrastructure is going.
Gawd, I'm in the wrong business. Time for me to start schmoozing with people in the adult entertainment industry.
that a firm would pay that much rather than do it themselves.
15:14
mostly in bandwidth I imagine
oh, this isn't a porn client
I don't have access to their setup yet, but it seems to be a function of growth... but still... isn't that putting some IT people out of work?
that's the name of the game
I thought we were SUPPOSED to replace sysadmins with scripts?
@Chopper3 Oh? Well, won't this result in very few people knowing big infrastructure?
and the rest being developers and operators?
it's always been like that hasn't it
15:18
Yes, and they'll be specialists who command a high price.
@MichaelHampton which goes back to the client who probably shouldn't try to implement their own vCenter and AD installation.
@voretaq7 Oh dear god... I'm watching that question on SU... someone's actually trying to help.
but I see that gap widening... I used to be able to code a webpage...
@ewwhite And someone who yesterday said that the age of the generalist was over.
now, I wouldn't know where to begin...
But it's hyper-specialization...
15:20
@MichaelHampton yes, yes they will
@ewwhite This is natural, you're getting older and can see a wider field of play than you previously let yourself see, now you see schedules, budgets, politics, priorities and most importantly people and teams, you can only do so much so your 'low level' skills fall back, it's inevitable - the trick is not to lose interest in that stuff even if you don't have time
@Chopper3 but 8-10 years ago, it was simpler... I see some skills as unnecessary now.
All of my fancy HP knowledge is useless in this new job.
@MichaelHampton when I was a kid single people wrote computer games, I have a friend who runs a games company and they don't even do any of the artwork in this continent any more, the code's written by 100+ staff and their testers are in the thousands
Scary.
although, now I'm exposed to real storage: @Basil-style.
what type
appears to be isilon and EMC VNX
15:30
oh ok
I know... nothing fancy
be interesting in a few months what you think of it compared to your normal stuff - imagine you'll find it a lot less 'flexible'
@Chopper3 compared to Z F S?
yeah, think you'll see the limitations very quickly - but hopefully you'll also see why we buy stuff like that, might take longer though
@Chopper3 The guy next to me has a sign that has a graphic of an EMC VNX and says, "complicated, weak, inefficient, unaffordable"
15:37
ha
and the time it takes to print something like that out and post it on your wall...
means you must really dislike the product
I have no idea how well Nexenta would scale or handle this stuff...
One Isilon SAN has ~800 servers connected to it via NFS
that's towards the high-end but not unusual, especially for low frequency traffic
@Chopper3 Mostly VMWare host traffic.
gosh, lots of interfaces then I imagine
Yes... and all 10GbE
but still, it's a lot of stuff.
I see Nexenta as reasonably-solid, but without hardware that can rise to the same level.
Oh, and the EMC takes 3 hours to run updates once it's unboxed.
15:50
that's a long time
Hmm, just discovered a coworker is a highly-ranked StackExchange member.
@MichaelHampton Stupid is as Stupid does.
@voretaq7 Even after being closed, that question is STILL GOING.
@MichaelHampton well it looks like SU rejected the migration so the poor guy is SOL.
(No Yelling Bird)
@ewwhite HOO? HOO? HOO?
16:04
On another site.
@ewwhite StackO, prolly.
@WesleyDavid nope. Only one programmer here.
@ewwhite Hmm... second guess, HomeImprovement or Photography. =)
Or maybe Arquade...
And the ending to the 61-million contacts in outlook?
Just for 20 bucks, I don't want to all these shit! I will just deny him to work — Tejas 2 mins ago
16:07
questionable activity, eh?
At least he learned something from the experience.
Oh god, it's STILL going. Somebody on SU dug up a Microsoft KB article on it.
And they reopened the question.
@MichaelHampton for the love of kittens
I'm in SU's chat room today watching the conversation. I think this is going to end up being one of their "famous" questions. Or "infamous".
I even removed my downvote, just so I could see what happens.
Just got another spam via IPv6. I think this is about my fourth one since I rolled out a month or so ago. Can't wait for DNSBL's to start listing IPv6 blocks like this one.
@MichaelHampton Bleh. Unless you have customers there, just block everything from the ARIN zone and be done with it.
@Adrian I can't block the whole Internet!
16:21
@MichaelHampton Ugh. I haven't had coffee yet. was thinking that was SE ASia.
But that's a residential IP address range and it definitely shouldn't be sending email.
Is it so damn hard for an ISP to block port 25 on their egress filter?!
@MichaelHampton Yes.
@MichaelHampton (and some will open it if you ask)
@MichaelHampton No, considering that all the local ISPs do that.
I ended up pointed 2525 to 25 on our firewall for some of the folks here.
Ow my aching head. Open Outbreak. Go to SMTP settings. Change "25" to "587". Thank you for your small contribution to ridding the world of spam.
@MichaelHampton No, and they should.
No client should ever be connecting to Port 25 (except in the very rare circumstances of testing, which people who should be testing should also know how to get around a silly little firewall block)
16:29
I have Comcast Business. I expect port 25 to be open, and it is. If I had residential service I would expect it to be blocked. Is this so unreasonable?
I mean come on, are all your edge routers Linksys boxes you picked up at Best Buy or what?
@MichaelHampton ... nooooo? puts Cisco sticker over LinkCyst logo
@MichaelHampton Fry's.
I'm starting to be of the opinion that business class service should block port 25 too, and have an easy option in your account control panel to unblock it for specific IPs. And if the ISP sees you trying to send to Port 25 (and being blocked) they can call you to explain the situation and if you need it unblocked.
My routers are FreeBSD machines.
@ChrisS the problem is most ISPs grossly mismanage that sort of shit
Mine in my home life are =]
At work, we use Cisco ASAs.
16:31
("last guy to have your range unblocked it, so it's unblocked for you" kind of deal, because they don't tear down the firewall config on their FWSM between customers)
@voretaq7 Yeah, but as long as we're talking about what "should be", we might as well aim for the moon.
@ChrisS If I had to do real routing I'd spring for Cisco. I just have to handle shit inside my private network and hand the rest off to the ISP so I can be a cheap bastard :)
I've come to appreciate the cost-benefit balance of used Cisco Routers... You can pickup a Cisco 2821 for a few hundred on eBay and have a VPN Router, with VoIP service, and even stick a 802.11g module in there to have a complete small business solution.
Does it support IPv6?
What's the difference between an A record and an AAAA record?
16:37
Depends on the IOS version, but it certainly can.
@ewwhite A = IPv4, AAAA = IPv6
@ChrisS Yeah, but that lacks a lot of the flexibility I get with FreeBSD+PF+CARP+My monitoring system.
One is tiny, the other is ginormous.
@ewwhite Oh lord, Jimmy Wales is doing his "Where is my fucking money" campaign again
@voretaq7 "small business solution", the ma-n-pa shop doesn't care about monitoring, HA, or fancy firewall rules
(the WiFi thing does make it attractive for an office, except our server closet is in the hall behind 2 brick-and-steel walls so it'd be like getting AT&T cell signal in midtown Manhattan)
@ChrisS We're a "small business" (<100 employees). They just forked out the cash for a competent sysadmin.
(at least I like to pretend I'm competent. As long as no Windows machines come along I can maintain that illusion.)
16:41
For <$2000 in equipment I can outfit a business with a 2800 series router with VoIP, 14-hour voicemail, integrated Cable Modem, 16 port PoE Switch, 802.11g, and a handful of VoIP phones.
My two routers, one with Tomato for the guest network and the DD-WRT one for my real network, is doing just fine, thank you.
@ewwhite And as you guys reminded me last winter, it's AAAA because there's 4x as many bits in the address
@voretaq7 Ok, how about "tiny business"?
@Adrian Yeah, I should learn that stuff.
Actually it's AAAA because AA would remind people of Alcoholics Anonymous, and AAA is trademarked.
16:42
@ChrisS <50 employees? That's us too...
@ewwhite Yeah, bit thin on theory myself. Told my school they could shove their Fortran, PL/1, and VAX Assembler up their ass and started on the ground floor doing help desk.
@voretaq7 I don't think you can define a business solely be the number of employees. You certainly act like a medium sized business.
@ChrisS we act like a business with competent people working within budget and resource constraints :)
Theory is overrated. Especially what they teach in college. When I was tutoring students on classes I hadn't even taken yet, I finally realized I was wasting my money - and time.
@MichaelHampton Absolutely nothing wrong with a setup like that; as long as you can find support. Not saying it doesn't exist or anything; but if I get hit by a bus someone can just call the name on the box (pay an arse-load of money) and get support.
16:44
's why I don't like small/medium/large business classifications - I've worked for 100+ person companies that were happy with a Netgear 4-port wonderbox as their edge infrastructure :)
@voretaq7 Right. Medium business. =]
@ChrisS This is a very small business - me.
@voretaq7 Or worse, A stack of them 8 high.
@ChrisS nah you see it in large companies too - I worked for a hospital where edge filtering was handled by OpenBSD
@Adrian 6. (That was here before I started. Six 5-port Netgear switches, with wall warts, plugged into electrical squids, in the production rack at our colo)
((Beats the company at $job[-1] that ran for like 2 years on a 4-port hub powered by a 12V power supply + cigarette lighter adapter on a shelf in their rack. We found out about this when the cigarette adapter worked its way out of the power supply socket and their environment went down. And THIS is why some datacenters don't allow clients to rack and stack gear.))
@voretaq7 Lovely. My outbound interstitial setup here is roughly 5-6 Netgear/DLink SOHO firewalls plugged into a 16-port switch with connection to all the external-facing server. It's a lot of a mess, no doubt about it. Lots of manual routing entries pointing hither and yon to particular ISP connections.
We don't have a SPOF. We have a great many SPOFs.
@Adrian ...are yours hanging about mid-rack supported by the ethernet cables plugged into them?
^ The consumer version comes with a CUP HOLDER.
@voretaq7 Nope, all stacked up on top in a big mound.
@Adrian one step up from where we were then.
It's sad when Netgear's ProSafe 10/100 switches are an improvement instead of the bear minimum allowed in the environment.
Hey all... my client issue from yesterday. The customer replied to my, "are you sure you know what you're getting yourself into?" email.
16:51
Sheesh. I have a 4 port hub in my junkbox. But I have no idea where its wall wart is.
@ewwhite "No, but do it anyway" <- ?
@ewwhite Oh? Did it involve imprecations about your parentage?
@MichaelHampton ...hence the cigarette lighter adapter. "It says 12V DC IN - this'll do pig!"
we feel confident enough to take a bigger role in this projects than in the past. Both of us see this as an opportunity to expand our knowledge, gain experience, and improve the infrastructure. We're not Systems Engineers but we feel like we've learned an awful lot over the last 5 years and that we're ready to take a step forward...
@ewwhite Somebody at management level edited that message for them. Or even composed it. I'd bet on it.
16:54
@MichaelHampton I changed the language from the original email
but that's the gist...
@ewwhite Oh, in that case, YOU should be careful lest you find yourself in a management role in the near future :)
@MichaelHampton That shit's contagious.
Oh god, the guy with 61 million contacts just got advice on how to write his spam app.. in Node.js!
And they said something about buying hardware from me, etc, etc.
@ewwhite I suppose you can sell them hardware, and then sell them more services fixing whatever they break.
16:57
I'm still thinking that they need help. It's better to use the consulting time as a way to teach them and inform what's happening.
rather than let them hammer it out on their own
Let them expand their knowledge and gain experience while you're close by to make sure they don't drown?
E.g. I'd like to rewire the office and pull cable, but it would more make sense to let the wiring contractor who does that shit every day do it.
Oh, and explain why you have contractors rewire the office and pull cable rather than doing it yourself.
So they can expand their knowledge.
-1
Q: Booting Solaris from Hard Disk or USB..?

user1535580Does anyone know how to boot Solaris 11 form an internal/external HDD? I have already done dual boot form CD ROM. I just need to knoww how to boot from a USB Flash Drive and/or a HDD.

Wait, boot-camp? He's trying to install Solaris on a MAC?!
@MichaelHampton Makes me want to build a new home workstation.
@MichaelHampton Hmm?
17:02
@MichaelHampton and on the 7th day god said "Fuck it, have {root,Enterprise Admin,QSECOFR}."
You know, Macintosh. Those eye-candy PCs that run a strange Unix variant.
I've got a bunch of 10/100 switches at home; think I have all the wall warts too. Anybody want one?
@MichaelHampton A/UX?
@voretaq7 Hot!
@voretaq7 No, that was for the old ugly Macs. The new pretty Macs run something called "OS X", which as best I can tell is just a rebadged version of NeXT.
17:05
@ewwhite SVR(++2++)
I don't even have a tape drive that old anymore.
@ChrisS RECYCLE YOUR OWN GODDAMN E-WASTE! :-P
I cant wait to show you guys my datacenter before/after pics
@MDMarra Before:
When I started this project 2 months ago, it looked like the worst cabling ever
Now it's really shaping up
17:08
Worse
After:
Except minus the laptop
bahahahaha
17:09
"If I can't see it, it can't hurt me"
@voretaq7 You put all the servers behind drywall?
Your future: bash.org/?5273
@JeffFerland nah I was actually looking for a pic of an empty rack, but when I google image searched it it sent me here: reliant-communications.com/references.htm
and I couldn't resist the "Drywall with a cable coming out of it" joke ala that bash.org story (or the Netware Server one) :-)
@JeffFerland And it's NOT drywall -- look closely. That's genuine Sheetrock-Brand sheetrock!
Luxury facility - they spared no expense :)
why do I answer questions like this?
0
Q: Exchange and SPF Records

TheDI've created an SPF record on 123-Reg, which is working great. But my question is how Exchange servers know that an SPF record exists when they receive mail from a domain. How does Exchange know it needs to check the domain's DNS provider, 123-Reg in this instance, for a SPF record, in order to c...

@voretaq7 Because you enjoy the pain.
17:25
On that note, is now ignored by me.
yes I enjoy inflicting pain on idiots who can't be assed to look up RFCs and understand how the internet fucking works.
But since I can't actually print the relevant RFCs and hit these people with them until they cry, then until they stop crying, then until they cry again, it's somehow less satisfying.
@JeffFerland You! Security guy! You smack this one around:
1
Q: Why is "AcceptEnv *" considered insecure?

TheDauthiIn /etc/ssh/sshd_config, there is an option called AcceptEnv that allows the ssh client to send environment variables. I need to be able to send a large number of environment variables. These change on every connection from the client, so putting them in a login script on the server would be mo...

So I have what is apparently the gnarliest CSV
@JoelESalas it's NUL delimited?
@voretaq7 quotes and slashes and newlines oh my
but NULs? :)
17:27
@voretaq7 nein
@voretaq7 To be perfectly fair to said idiot, there's no guarantee that Exchange behaves correctly regarding ANY of the RFCs.
Is it bad form to link to particularly idiotic .SE user profiles?
Including one dork on the wordpress site who can't spell and carefully manages his rep to stay at 666.
@JoelESalas Friend of mine was doing consulting work for a company that wanted to migrated to a modern database. The "DB" they were using could only export in CSV form. It had binary blobs embedded in some of the fields.
@Adrian Feels bad man, hahaha
So what DBMS did they go with?
@JoelESalas Wasn't me, thank God. They were moving it to MSSQL from some heinous POS that I'd never heard of.
Was maybe 5-6 years ago?
@Adrian no, in fact it's pretty much guaranteed to ignore or outright blatantly violate them. But that's how it would know you had an SPF record and what to do with it (assuming it actually cares)
@Adrian I'm honestly kind of glad that there's only a handful of DBMSes considered suitable for production use.
17:36
@JoelESalas Oracle, Postgres, MSSQL/Sybase... in roughly that order? :)
@JoelESalas This is true. Was a lot easier to code crappy flat-file shite like Paradox way back then and sell it.
I think we ran Paradox here in the late 90s to early 2Ks before we moved to PHP and MySQL and eventually to Postgres. That was back before MySQL had transactions though, and we really did have to switch.
A good thing, since I think it took MySQL a year or two longer to get transactions than the Dev team claimed it would take.
@Adrian ...and MySQL still sucks and lacks a proper stored procedure language? :)
@voretaq7 Civil War's over grandpa. Where's CouchDB and MongoDB and SQLite and Redis and Dynamo and Cassandra and Mnesia and Neo4j
@voretaq7 Yes, though I rather wish my Devs wouldn't store quite so much of the business logic in the database. There's no way to version control that stuff.
@voretaq7 It is done. Lavish upon me your upvotes.
17:39
Or at least no way to do it that we can currently afford.
@JeffFerland No linky, no lovin'.
@Adrian Scroll up.
@JoelESalas You said "databases" not "empty buckets in which to put shit"
@Adrian I like my lovin' to be a little less lethargic.
@JeffFerland Now you're making me work to give you upvotes? Ingrate.
@Adrian um, yeah there is - the same way you version schemas (DDL update scripts that get checked in to CVS)
@JeffFerland Exxxxxcelent
17:42
@Adrian One of my previous bosses implemented A* breadth-first tree traversal in SQL Server 2000-level TSQL. It is one of the slowest implementations of anything I've ever encountered
@Adrian I'm a huge fan of enforcing business logic (especially constraints) in the DB -- The front end can always fuck up, but if the DB won't accept bad data you'll never have a mess to clean up because your front-end devs don't believe in testing.
@voretaq7 Also known as Banker Databasing or, "No queries for you, just stored procedure calls."
@voretaq7 Yeah, I'm lucky my Devs understand how to use CVS.
At least when taken to a bit more of an extreme
As it is our only database backups are dailies at 4am. Been trying to get something better in there for a year now.
Working for a non-profit growing at a dot-com pace pretty much sucks.
Oh! This is cool. There's a local Bacula Systems office just on the other side of the city moat.
Maybe I can finagle an on-site visit.
17:53
@voretaq7 I do! I'm going to the recycler next week with a ton of stuff.
I sometimes wonder if web designers understand that I am unlikely to hire a web designer that cannot spell properly even in their advertising and Bio.

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