The Comms Room

Michael Hampton

05:01

What sucks is there isn't a daemon that does my whole job for me.

ewwhite

@MichaelHampton There is a daemon that will do your job for you... It is called linuxconf.

Michael Hampton

@ewwhite Makes me think it's a stripped down puppet.

ewwhite

@MichaelHampton You never used it?

rnxrx

the commercial side has been after the grand unified theory of network management forever, and their packages usually end up taking as much development and customization as just rolling your own

Michael Hampton

@ewwhite Nope. Looks ancient, too.

ewwhite

05:11

@MichaelHampton Ah, it was a joke... it was like an early Webmin.

in the Red Hat 6.2, 7.x and 8.0 days

Michael Hampton

I was starting to wonder about that.

@rnxrx I primarily manage other people's servers on contract, so there are things I can and can't get away with.

rnxrx

@MichaelHampton I hear you. I've just seen -so- much money dumped into this stuff over the years and the general maturity level doesn't seem to have advanced as much.

Mark Henderson

So, it turns out Zabbix has a fucking heart attack when plotting a chart with 96 seperate counters

rnxrx

It shit the bed pretty spectacularly when I was working with it.

Mark Henderson

@rnxrx I haven't really pushed it this far before. It's fine for our day to day operations, never really had an issue with it once you learn to deal with its shortcomings

(every product has shortcomings though, so nothing unique there)

rnxrx

05:17

I seem to recall I had it pulling a lot of data from some heavily loaded 6500's and it managed to completely blitz a pretty hefty VM - to the point where I had to crash the box to rip out the startup

It wasn't too bad otherwise, though - and certainly a lot less attenuated than nagios

I'm more a network guy by background but I've always kind of liked munin.

WesleyDavid

05:35

Windows account being locked out. No lockout events in event logs. CONSPIRACY!!

Lucas Kauffman

@WesleyDavid u rang?

WesleyDavid

@LucasKauffman Guns! Guns! Guns!

Lucas Kauffman

Yeeey what are we shooting?

WesleyDavid

@LucasKauffman Not kittens.

WE SHOOTIN' THE LIBR'LS! They be all "Universal Healthcare" this and "Koch brother" that.

Seriously, lobbyists are people too and they should be treated with preferential equality because AMERIKUH!

Lucas Kauffman

FUCK YEAH

dat obama guy was on Reddit yesterday

WesleyDavid

05:41

@LucasKauffman Kenya Kenya Muslim Birth Papers Muhammad Jihad!!

Lucas Kauffman

Durka Durka Agoegoegoe tsjakalaka Muhammad Jihad

WesleyDavid

'Cause if you ain't fer us yer again' us and then.. well... you just kaint fool me again!

Lucas Kauffman

so who do you think will win

I can tell you one thing tho Obama sounds a lot like Osama to me!

WesleyDavid

@LucasKauffman Obama will win. I don't think many people doubt that.

Lucas Kauffman

well that romney guy is a bit of weirdo ain't he?

WesleyDavid

05:49

@LucasKauffman Pretty much.

Lucas Kauffman

lol at my report review: "Lucas can you explain abbreviations like IIS and IDE, often people reading these reports will not know the difference between a toaster and a fileserver

Shane Madden

@LucasKauffman They're not gonna understand any better when you expand the abbreviations..

Michael Hampton

"Then the people reading the reports should just do whatever I recommend."

Lucas Kauffman

if only

Mark Henderson

@rnxrx Hoolllyy shit, found out why Zabbix can't plot 96 counters on a chart; it maxed out PHP's memory limit per individual script

"Sure" I thought "easy, lets' up it to say, 64Mb/script". Turns out it was already at 128Mb/script

Bumped it up to 512Mb/script and now it's smooth sailing

(until the server runs out of physical memory, but I guess thats easy fixed)

Lucas Kauffman

05:59

@MarkHenderson MOOOAAAAR MEMMORIIIEEES

Kenny Rasschaert

@WesleyDavid Not to get into a religious debate, but as a European, Mormonism seems really silly.

3

Michael Hampton

@LucasKauffman You weren't here for the gun discussion earlier, were you?

Lucas Kauffman

I was not

What did I miss?

Michael Hampton

@LucasKauffman Oh, I had mentioned that it was an important tool in the sysadmin's toolbox. It came to mind when I was thinking about what to do about your report.

Iain

G'day

Michael Hampton

06:04

And if you don't believe me, well, it seems to work at Server Fault.

WesleyDavid

@KennyRasschaert I don't know about you, but I wouldn't mind some magic underwear.

Mark Henderson

^^ Oh yeah, useless but shit it looks impressive

Lucas Kauffman

give it to a manager

and you say "red is bed I need more money"

WesleyDavid

@MarkHenderson Call it a dashboard, say it's Web 2.0, designed by DevOps, and hosted in the cloud. Clients will kill eachother to see who can pay you more.

Mark Henderson

@WesleyDavid Sadly I suspect you're right

Michael Hampton

06:10

@MarkHenderson It's useless because it contains labels like "ifInOctets1" instead of "Bill's Porn Surfing Habit".

Mark Henderson

@MichaelHampton Hmm. I guess I could pull out mspaint and categorise parts of the day ;)

"lunch time" "backups" "porn time"

Michael Hampton

As we were just discussing, these reports need to be massaged a bit so that managers can understand them more easily.

WesleyDavid

@MarkHenderson Geckoboard that stuff and have it running on an old PC with a cheap TV hooked to it.

Michael Hampton

Does anybody ever spell DRBD correctly?

Mark Henderson

Way ahead of you

Michael Hampton

06:16

@MarkHenderson Not flashy and colorful enough for the managers.

Mark Henderson

@MichaelHampton I actually did start setting up a Geckoboard, but then the free trial ran out and I decided to do real work instead :p

Michael Hampton

@MarkHenderson Oh, that's something they'll probably buy for you without a second thought.

Mark Henderson

06:31

Home time, cya

Lucas Kauffman

06:43

Nothing as good as Rusko to wake up in the morning

t1nt1n

Morning hags.

Lucas Kauffman

07:10

English peeps: Is there a better way to say, I hope this is more clear to the reader? Can I use clearer?

Iain

clarifies matters for the ...?

Anarko_Bizounours

hello

You're talking about network/infrastructure supervisor?

Lucas Kauffman

@Iain thanks that's even better :p

t1nt1n

hey @ia

lets try again @iain long time no speak. Hows things going up there?

Achu

Hey guys, a little advice on cloud hosting, Is there will speed problem on Physical location of cloud servers?

t1nt1n

07:20

@Achu expand?

Achu

Ok

I have a plan to host my website on Rackspace cloud servers. they have data center in US, UK and Japan. My 80% visitors come form Africa. here i'm confused which data center will good for me.

t1nt1n

Depends on where there connection terminates. But if The Japan has a bigger backhal than the US then the might be better to use as there is more bandwith. But.....

We cant tell you the anwser to this. The only thing is to try and run some metrics. The nice thing about "Cloud" Hosting is you can normally migrate zones depending on the provider

Achu

Yeah but Rackspace does not give migrating from one data center to the another. Ex. migrating from US to UK. You have to create a new account on UK.

t1nt1n

Yea thats because of EMEA Trading rules. You should be able to do UK to JP tho

ive not used rackspace so cant say.

best thing would be ask there sales guys. There the best people as they know the Infrastructure

Achu

I did but i don't trust sales peoples. always says all our products the best :)

They don't tell you the truth. Like you said which data center have bigger backhal, they will give the answer all datacenter have bigger backhal.

t1nt1n

07:32

Just say that you have X datacenters and you want to know the connections at each. Then chose yourself. Just ask for the information dont ask for there oppinion.

Achu

ok

Achu

07:44

Thank you guys for you advice. Bye

Iain

@t1nt1n I'm good - and you ?

SmallClanger

08:22

Morning.

Michael Hampton

That it is.

Chopper3

08:53

doublerobotics.com

WANT one

Kenny Rasschaert

it needs arms

I need it to be able to pull a server from a rack and service it.

Anarko_Bizounours

09:25

@Chopper3 that's remind me of Demolition man, when the mayor is in a meeting in the future

@KennyRasschaert we're still needed then ^^

Chopper3

@Anarko_Bizounours I seriously want one

Anarko_Bizounours

I understand, and I start to want one too

HaydnWVN

09:43

Quicky: WTF is a firewall hook sink?

SmallClanger

@Chopper3 They look ace, but I'm have my doubts over the practicalities.

Anarko_Bizounours

@HaydnWVN It's a protocol that check the packet when it's input. But not sure, will look for it to be more accurate

HaydnWVN

@Anarko_Bizounours Thanks, we've noticed an odd message on our firewall log 'Firewall hook sink' with an odd external IP address we're not aware of (we have exceptions for allowed IP's, everything else incoming is blocked)

Anarko_Bizounours

ok, So far I never heard of hook sink on other device than thompson speedtouch

HaydnWVN

Ours is a Linksys

Checking with our security/external software support company now

Chopper3

09:52

@SmallClanger People would definitely attach paper cock/balls to the underside wouldn't they

Anarko_Bizounours

hook sink work together, the hook test every packet that enter the network, and the sink only process the packet that's want to go to the speedtouch server . Well that's what I found on the interweb.

HaydnWVN

speedtouch server meaning the NAT table or the internal destination?

Anarko_Bizounours

not sure

HaydnWVN

@Anarko_Bizounours Ok, thanks anyways

Anarko_Bizounours

10:07

sorry couldn't help more about this

SmallClanger

@Chopper3 Hah, or felt tip a goatee and a pair of glasses to the screen.

lsiunsuex

11:38

wtf. i told the client a linux host, not windows

now i either have to rewrite the db codes or see if it can be switched

Iain

12:09

@JohnGardeniers Welcome !

Dan

12:40

Good lord

lsiunsuex

now a days, i don't doubt that that shit is real

Kenny Rasschaert

I'm thankful she aborted

lsiunsuex

some really f'ed up people out there

Kenny Rasschaert

we don't need her offspring in our gene pool, and she would be a terrible mother

Dan

I blame the church

MDMarra

12:46

The president broke reddit yesterday

normal sites get reddited, reddit gets POTUSed

Dan

So I just spent 20 minutes diagnosing why Office 2010 SP1 wouldn't install, seemed to be something obscure to do with Symantec Anti Virus

Turns out the site has SP1 anyway :(

Chris S

@KennyRasschaert Unfortunately I think I agree.

@Dan WTF? Thanks for starting the day on a sour note. >=|

Dan

@ChrisS Happy to help

MDMarra

What's wrong with someone that's going to be a terrible parent getting an abortion?

Chris S

@Dan The root of all your problems are Symantec Anti Virus

@MDMarra Personally I don't have any problem with that. I'm just not convinced by a series of FB Posts that she's be good or bad... Or that it's real for that matter.

MDMarra

12:53

Oh, I'm sure there's a 73% chance that it's fake

but assuming it's not, I think we can extrapolate that she's a shitty person.

Chris S

@MDMarra Or someone who puts up a tough front. Especially since it ends in a very emotionally vulnerably way.

lsiunsuex

maybe shes a character actress

MDMarra

If there's truth to the fact that she knowingly went out drinking multiple times while pregnant, then she's pretty much a shitty person

And judging by the content of those posts (again, assuming they're real) she has, at least, a cursory grasp on the negative effects of alcohol on a fetus

Chris S

I've met several different people with FAS, it's an "interesting" effect. My mom mentored a girl who had it from 17 to 19 (when she was released from juvie, and went back to living with her horrible family).

lsiunsuex

themeforest.net/item/… i can't help but stair at the women in the picture

Chris S

13:02

@lsiunsuex demohtml.templatesquare.com/smartgroup/images/slider/sg-1.png <-- Sorry, she was starting to creep me out.

Her?

lsiunsuex

yes

i call that, early morning porn - just enough to wake you up, but not get you excited

Chris S

Not my type in the least, so that's on less guy to compete with ;]

Dan

@ChrisS Nor mine, not that it's ever really stopped me before

Basil

good morning

also, in case anyone new is here:

yesterday, by WesleyDavid

Stop starring me.

5

Kenny Rasschaert

I just went meta by starring that

2

ewwhite

13:12

@MDMarra Slashdotted?

2

Basil

@KennyRasschaert haha, starception

2

ewwhite

Was there some Mormon-bashing here last night?

MDMarra

@ewwhite Slashdotting's not as scary as being reddited anymore, is it?

ewwhite

@MDMarra It's exactly why I didn't go for it...

Journeyman Geek

was there?

MDMarra

13:17

@ewwhite Did you accept anything anywhere?

lsiunsuex

Mormons have my respect. any man that is a polygamist and can deal with more than 1 wife must be very complacent

ewwhite

@MDMarra yeah..

7 hours ago, by Kenny Rasschaert

@WesleyDavid Not to get into a religious debate, but as a European, Mormonism seems really silly.

MDMarra

@lsiunsuex Most mormons aren't polygamists

God, don't you watch Sister Wives?

Scott Pack

@lsiunsuex The trick is to beat your wives into submission.

Dan

@ScottPack Or just beat them anyway

lsiunsuex

13:19

there, i fixed it

i dont watch tv

Basil

reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/z1oq5/dodging_coldcalls_with_dev

2

Kenny Rasschaert

@ewwhite You're not a Mormon are you?

ewwhite

@KennyRasschaert Naw... I was just interested in hearing the perspective.

Americans don't know much about Mormonism, except for the craziness we hear in the media.

lsiunsuex

and the HBO series Big Love

Kenny Rasschaert

I know even less about it. My main source of information is South Park.

But going by that, it's a pretty bizarre religion.

Basil

13:22

My main source of information is the art of trolling's website when the post screencaps of questions about magnets.

Kenny Rasschaert

Although from what I'm told, they're the nicest people when they go door to door.

Basil

@KennyRasschaert except that by knocking on my door, they've become someone willing to invade my privacy physically to sell their shit

no matter how they act, they're no better than telemarketers

lsiunsuex

car salesman are worse than telemarketers

Chris S

@Basil Devin Nully is going on the phone list the next time I update it. That's great.

Basil

@lsiunsuex You have to go to them, though, so they have an excuse. Telemarketers come to you.

ewwhite

13:27

But now, it's on to Politics... The Republican convention coverage is getting wild.

Scott Pack

@KennyRasschaert My main source of Mormon knowledge comes from the Mormons I knew growing up. But going by that it's a pretty bizarre religion.

ewwhite

@ScottPack So should it color one's perception of a Presidential candidate?

Chris S

@ewwhite I'm still not convinced that I'm even going to vote for president. I don't like our current; but I have "reservations" against voting for a waffling moderate who panders to the extremists.

Scott Pack

@ewwhite Personally? I keep my thoughts on religion out of politics, so I would prefer you treat me with the same respect.

Basil

@ewwhite Whether or not it should, it does. Voters are dumb.

Kenny Rasschaert

13:29

@ewwhite A religion is often perhaps on of the most profound influences on one's behavior.

Scott Pack

@ewwhite I figure that applies to my fellow voters as well as the candidates.

Basil

I'd be more worried about his business background and his plans for the economy, but that can't get people riled up like a good old "he's not like us" attack ad.

lsiunsuex

i think Obama gets a lot more shit than he deserves; he came in at a difficult time; the economy is going through a lot of shit; he did the best he could with what he had. these problems can't be fixed in 4 years

Chris S

@KennyRasschaert "often perhaps" <-- Your use of qualifiers makes me think you don't stand behind your statement.

Scott Pack

@lsiunsuex It's especially hard to "fix" things when the political system sets up the president as a figure head with little real authority.

Basil

13:30

At least he didn't make it worse.

Kenny Rasschaert

@ChrisS I was trying to tone down what I had originally typed, because it depends on how strong the faith is

lsiunsuex

we're republican, but i think a republican in the office would make things worse. their going to go against the grain of what Obama has tried to do

Chris S

@ewwhite Everything should color one's perception of a candidate. We don't get to pick one part of the candidate to be the elected official, it's the whole person.

Kenny Rasschaert

@ChrisS ...and it's also a touchy subject..

lsiunsuex

we should try what RIM did - 2 presidents!

ewwhite

13:32

All true. I'm less concerned about Romney+Mormon than I am about the GOP platform.

MikeyB

@ScottPack Best thing I've heard all week: Mormonism == Christian Fan Fiction

Chris S

@KennyRasschaert According to many sources, the world is headed for Atheism (or Nihilism, which we'll count as the same for the religious-political discussion). So it may matter less than you think.

Kenny Rasschaert

@ChrisS Try running for office as an atheist in the most powerful country in the world, and then tell me that it doesn't matter that much.

Basil

Maybe in a few generations, but it's still not OK to be an atheist in almost any real world social situation I've ever been in.

ewwhite

And the them versus us is tiring... So if you are a single-issue voter, gun rights advocate, wealthy or businessman, disenfranchised southern white, concerned about immigration, etc... you're lumped into the Republican party.

Liberals... it's like everything else.

Ladadadada

13:34

@ChrisS Australia certainly is: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AustralianReligiousAffiliation.svg

Kenny Rasschaert

Only having two parties will do that, polarization is the only possible outcome..

MDMarra

@KennyRasschaert China?

Scott Pack

@KennyRasschaert Which is pretty disappointing considering that, by all accounts, atheists count for about 20% of the population.

ewwhite

But what I don't understand are people who are like, "welp, I'm worse off than I was four years ago... Obama's fault!"

Dan

"This installer can not be run from a UNC path"
*Maps drive*
"This installer can not be run from a Network drive"
Grr!

ewwhite

13:37

@ChrisS What's wrong with the current?

Basil

@ScottPack It doesn't matter. The 80% of the world that isn't atheist looks at the 20% like they have no soul or morals, and simply can't comprehend living a life where you can't be happy.

It's not usually even hatred, it's just pity

So for the next 80 years or so, assuming we make it that far, it'll probably be not safe to be an atheist in public if you need people around you to trust, like, or support you in any way.

Scott Pack

@Basil Interestingly, the percentages seem to increase as you narrow your population based on highest degree earned. I've seen figures indicating that, based on the education level of Congresspeople that, statistically, about 50% of them should be assumed to be atheists.

Kenny Rasschaert

@Basil I loathe the argument that atheists have nothing to keep them from commiting murder or theft. Morality does not come from religion, it comes from humanity.

Dan

My dad got beat up by a priest - imagine how much faith there was in my household growing up :D

ewwhite

@ScottPack They probably are... but have to keep a public image of being religious.

Scott Pack

13:39

@KennyRasschaert Remember that one humanist? What was is name? Saint Thomas or something?

@ewwhite I find it disheartening to think that people have to pretend to follow a certain faith to be accepted.

Basil

@KennyRasschaert Be that as it may, I'm not arguing about the actual belief system. I'm talking about how others see it.

@ScottPack Atheism is an educated person's hobby.

Dan

@Basil Careful with that - I'm atheist through and through, but there are far cleverer people than I who take their faith seriously

Kenny Rasschaert

@Basil I know what you meant. It's just such a prevalent point of view.

MJB

Hi all, does anyone know if it is possible to access data from Exchange by php? OWA-php seems dead, and php-ews are ... poorly documented libs. Can't imagine this isn't implemented in some way, though google and stackexchange turn up with poor results.\

Basil

@Dan Not implying otherwise, but I know very few uneducated atheists.

Kenny Rasschaert

13:43

@Dan I can understand that some people believe in a divine creator. I just don't see how you can take organized religion seriously. "Oh OK this super old book full of contradictions is 100% true. That other super old book is full of lies!"

Dan

@MJB Ahaha - I did a bit of this as a project at an old job, my advice is to run the fuck away! It is definitely possible, though

And you're right about poor results - it just took endless guesswork

@Basil Fair point.

lsiunsuex

my god we have a stupid employees. "what does quarterly mean? 2 months?"

Dan

@lsiunsuex Sure, if you have an 8 month year :D

Chris S

@ewwhite My two big points of contention with Obama are 1. Big Government (don't get me wrong, most Rs talk about small gov, then do the opposite too) 2. Deficit => Debt

@lsiunsuex That would be 2.5 on the Roman Calendar. =]

ewwhite

@ChrisS What is "big government"?

Chris S

13:49

Bi- and Semi- are two people constantly screw up.

ewwhite

And what makes it big?

Military spend? Social programs? Waste and inefficiency?

Chris S

@ewwhite Efficiency mostly, the net benefit to the average tax payer per the amount they pay.

"Big Government" is a terrible term, and I can see why you'd ask for clarification. But it essentially boils down to efficiency.

ewwhite

@ChrisS Is that a function of the President's policies? The government is woefully-inefficient... Seems broken much of the time. But I wouldn't be able to pine it on Obama, for instance.

Chris S

For instance (and don't extrapolate too much from this example), Obamacare provides healthcare to certain individuals. The benefit provided is in the ballpark of a typical healthcare plan, but the cost is (in very rough terms) $100,000 per person. Now my employer pays more than half of the cost of my health care, but it certainly doesn't add up to that much.

MJB

@Dan

@Dan Well... that's encouraging ;)

Chris S

13:54

@ewwhite The President may not have complete control, but for the last few decades they've dictated the majority of the agenda. And nothing gets fixed if it doesn't get on the agenda.

ewwhite

@ChrisS watered-down and morphed into something unappealing... It seems like Americans would like a single-payer system...

Basil

I don't know what Obamacare is, but if it's closer to what we Canadians get, you should go for it.

2

Chris S

@ewwhite I propose a hybrid system. I don't have the time or willingness to flesh out all the details in chat right now, but essentially the government provides major medical and you get private healthcare to fill in the gaps if you so desire.

Basil

Our deficit is small and shrinking, our debt load is manageable, our education is cheap, our health care is free, and there are no death panels or forced abortions.

lsiunsuex

100k sounds way high. my employer pays for my benefits in full and its around 8k / year

Chris S

13:56

@Basil U.S. Debt and Deficits, Learning from Canada's Experience

ewwhite

@ChrisS Makes sense. Reduce burden on employers and allow people with the means to tailor as they see fit.

But the GOP platform would strike that down... "You don't want US to be like Europe or even worse, Canada!!!"

Chris S

That's correct. And that proposal isn't like either =]

ewwhite

But I think that us Americans are easily misguided... we should be out in the streets!

Chris S

@lsiunsuex Yes, well that's why I gripe about government efficiency (my take on the "big government" problem).

ewwhite

cough voter suppression, Military, the lies!

@chriss but nothing you've mentioned indicated Romney/Ryan are a better direction. These are systemic issues.

Chris S

14:06

@ewwhite Correct. Hence my reluctance to vote for any of them.

ewwhite

@ChrisS You seriously don't see a difference between them?

I guess I'd suggest participating in some way... doesn't have to be a vote for the big two parties...

Chris S

@ewwhite Sure I do. But the thinks I most care about, not much difference.

@ewwhite Is someone running on another ticket??

ewwhite

I don't even know...

that's sad.

Although, Ron Paul still isn't sure who he's casting a vote for.

Chopper3

From an outsiders perspective US politics is just about where you sit on the selfishness line, both options are basically fairly massively selfserving, it just depends on how blatent you are about it and whether you use the name of Jesus to get you there or not

ewwhite

@Chopper3 How so? I fit an odd profile... Definitely in the 1%, have a business, but believe that I've been lucky and had lots of help (education, infrastructure, grew up on welfare)... should be up-in-arms about taxes, but it doesn't bother me, because I have the means. Liberal on social issues. Am a minority... The current Republican platform is unappealing because I don't see any ideas from them that would seem to work... Add the race-baiting, social puritanism, religious-driven policies...

I just see that it's no fun doing well when so many other people are struggling. The gap is widening here.

Chopper3

14:16

@ewwhite Everything's about protecting what they have and grabbing what they don't - there's no social consciousness, not at anything but a local/charity level anyway

Chris S

@ewwhite The Green Party are a bunch of tree huggers. The Libertarians are isolationist, anarchist nut-jobs.. The Democrats just want to be in power by promising poor people the world. The Republicans want to screw everyone. The Constitution Party are even worse nut-jobs than the Libertarians. So who would you like to vote for?

Chopper3

Even just the process and costs of getting into office ENSURE that whoever wins will just spend their time paying back favours

ewwhite

@Chopper3 That part is true. THe best investment for a wealthy person in the US is paying-off politicians... er, lobbyists...

Chris S

@Chopper3 They're expected to raise a total of $3b+ this year between Demo, Repub, and PACs.

Chopper3

@ChrisS to non-Americans the Democrats don't look that socially-oriented anyway, maybe against the GOP they do but in the scheme of things they're both pretty right wing compared to the rest of the world

Chris S

14:18

@Chopper3 I said "promise", not "deliver".

ewwhite

@Chopper3 That's also true... there's no real left...

Dan

@Chopper3 This is certainly how I view it - I love the US and look forward to going back, but I do find their social and political landscape very strange

Chopper3

I'm aggressively athiest but what galls me most is the MOST right-wing using the name of Jesus to fuck over the poor and helpless - it's beyond parody

ewwhite

@Dan does it make us look ignorant?

@Chopper3 Well, you're lucky you haven't had to hear non-stop coverage of the meaning and delineation between different forms of rape for the past two weeks.

(as it relates to abortion)

Chopper3

I wouldn't say ignorant, but to 'old-world'ers the US is still 'growing up', all full of ideal and energy but ignoring the lessons of what's come before it

Dan

14:22

@ewwhite No, I think it's just due to how America has evolved to have a very different life view of themselves than the rest of the world. The whole American Dream thing just looks weird, especially when we see that it's not really true. Without being nasty, certain (large) parts of the US look downright 3rd world

ewwhite

@Dan We're trailblazers! Pull yourself up by your bootstraps...

Yeah, that dream doesn't exist anymore...

Dan

And the people in power (and by extension, probably a large majority of the public) really seem to hate poor people

ewwhite

The GOP convention keeps repeating the theme of us being "The Greatest Country on Earth"

That's creepy to say that...

especially in my town... every weekend, the news has a tally of how many people were shot over the weekend.

Dan

Yes, I saw that about drive bys in Chicago

Chopper3

Yes Dan, that's very true, in a country full of god-fearers there a lot of very non-christian behaviour going around

ewwhite

14:26

@ChrisS And most of that money will go to TV ads to fight over what, 200,000 voters in 4 states?

I live in Chicago, and other than the news reports, you wouldn't know that all of these shootings were occurring... The inner-city is ignored/neglected.

Dan

To be entirely fair to America, I don't think the sheer size of your country helps. When people think "Ghetto" in the UK, they think of areas that you can drive through in less than 10 minutes. Don't get me wrong, we have some really terrible areas (The worst local to me had a spate of gangsters chasing each other on motorcycles shooting each other. At one point it was declared an official no go zone to Police without an armed escort), but they're absolutely tiny in comparison.

So when we see huge parts of huge cities that are just, well, terrible, it just looks absolutely insane to us

Chris S

@ewwhite "in one of the most violent days the city has seen in nearly two months"

Scott Pack

Two months is not a very long time frame.

ewwhite

@Dan But there are reasons for it. Institutionalized racism (which we still haven't come to terms with) created these neighborhoods... Restrictive covenants on where certain minorities could live had a big part in that. Chicago is terribly segregated in it's south and west portions.

@ChrisS we've had 30-shooting weekends.

it's crazy

Chris S

@ewwhite I thought it was more crazy that it was the "worst" in two months....

ewwhite

14:33

Although, some of this is gang turf war now... drug trade from Mexico

Chris S

That's right up there with: I'm starving! I haven't eaten in almost 2 hours!

Dan

@ewwhite Not good, takes an extremely long time to recover from that kind of social division

Chris S

@ewwhite Racism and various other discriminations are a problem we'll likely have for generations to come. Previous laws really screwed things up. Current laws aren't making it any better, especially the ones mean to help. I don't pretend to have answers, but I do wonder what could be done better in the short and long terms.

ewwhite

@ChrisS Liberals overreacted to the restrictive covenants by making it TOO easy to get housing... and opened the door to predatory lending practices... Lots of weird overcompensation. I think we need to fix our race issues... our economic divisions, definitely...

I don't think there's a short-term fix. I hear people literally waiting for the demographic landscape to change...

Chris S

@ewwhite I'm not sold on the idea of fixing economic divisions. I am sold on fixing factors that influence economic stratification, such as education and various opportunities.

ewwhite

14:40

Right now, the Republican strategy is to simply pass on appealing to minority voters and women. I think the headlines of Romney receiving ZERO percent of the black vote are interesting...

@ChrisS Well, that goes into access to education... College is expensive. Fewer jobs. Lots of competition. Our elementary and high schools have been gutted.

I'm 32... I went to well-funded schools. Sometime between 1998 and now, the education system collapsed.

Chris S

@ewwhite Pft. I'm not even worried about college yet. Our inner city high schools have a 60% drop out rate.

Further, college isn't for everyone, but secondary education of some kind should be. Vocational training seems to make a lot of sense to me. I actually think high school should end around grade 10 (sophomore). The previous 11 and 12th grades should be prep, for "no additional schooling", "vocational prep", or "college prep".

The traditional idea of "grades" should be scrapped as well. A group of kids at the same age is not guaranteed to learn at the same rate, or retain/interpret that knowledge at the same rate. There's no good reason to be shuffling kids along based solely on age, we know better now.

MDMarra

@ChrisS They have that now

Well, to an extent

My brother went to a comprehensive high school where he took welding classes throughout the 4 years

in addition to all of the normal highschool stuff

of course, he decided he didnt want to do welding for a career so all that time was wasted, but still.

It also illustrates the point that kids that are 15 and 16 can't realistically make career decisions like that.

Chris S

He was 15 or 16 when he started High School?

MDMarra

no

but if 11th grade is when they decide on college prep, no prep, or voc prep, they're that age

Chris S

I'm suggesting Vocational Prep, not Vocational Training at those grade levels.

While I generally agree that at 16 most kids can't make a good decisions, at all, I do think test scores, their general disposition toward school, grades, and parental guidance can make a fairly accurate assessment of the kid's future.

MDMarra

14:54

True

but it's more than "college" vs "voc".

Someone that has good grades might be completely happy being a carpenter. And they're probably going to make a shitload more money over time than someone that gets a BA in Music

Scott Pack

As I recall the tests I took in high school indicated that I should have been an automotive mechanic.

MDMarra

Asking a bright kid to choose one of those two paths at that age is really a hard thing to do.

Chris S

@MDMarra If you're critiquing my proposed improvements because they're not Perfect, you'll have to propose a Perfect Alternative Plan.

MDMarra

I'm just saying that I think the current structure is fine now.

Chris S

@MDMarra You're assuming the kid has the final say in this.... Their opinion is one of a list of inputs.

MDMarra

14:57

Not sure what you mean

Chris S

@MDMarra 60% drop-out in inner cities and perpetuating the status-quo is "fine"?

MDMarra

Different problem

Ever see Waiting for Superman?

Chris S

@MDMarra You're approaching this proposal as if the kid gets to pick if they want to go to college or VT at age 16 simply by checking a box on a form. That is most definitely not what I am proposing.

MDMarra

I don't see how what you're proposing will do to change the dropout rate.

Chris S

15:10

@MDMarra Did you know the Superman school, Harlem Children's Zone, received $60m in donations the year before the film was shot? The year after the film it received about $40m. Public funding, the traditional source of funds for typical public schools, accounted for about 11% of their budget. Apparently you only get Superman if you pay 9 times as much.

voretaq7

Are we trying to solve the educational crisis in America today?

Chris S

No. They've already solved the problem, it just costs too much.

voretaq7

@ChrisS nonsense

the problem remains unsolved because we need an illiterate proletariat to continue propping up our inherently corrupt money machine of a government

to solve the educational crisis in America simply kill all the politicians.

(yes, that is my solution to every problem. Why do you ask? :-)

Chris S

Get your phone back?

voretaq7

@ChrisS yup

Chris S

15:21

Where was it?

voretaq7

in the plane :P

I pimp-slapped Siri a few times for good measure though

Chris S

What have we learned from this experience?

voretaq7

dat skank done been forgettin' her place!

@ChrisS That if you don't slap your hoes regularly they start gettin' all uppity and try to leave!

@Basil Re: Obamacare, it was originally conceived as "Medicare for everyone" (basically what Canadians (and US government officials) get). It got slaughtered and frankensteined into This which basically means 20% per annum premium increases from private companies for insurance the government is forcing you to buy (or they fine you with a tax).

Chris S

I have no lunch today. I think I'll get Jimmy Johns.

voretaq7

there's still some good stuff in there, but it's got some pretty awful provisions too

Basil

15:27

Scott Pack

@ChrisS I haven't had Jimmy Johns in a long time. Turkey Tom no mayo. Yummo.

voretaq7

@Basil An apple-shaped buttplug? Woudln't the bite-shaped part hurt? (to say nothing about the rest of it)

Scott Pack

@voretaq7 I expect a full report.

voretaq7

@ScottPack talking to the man. I don't lust after inanimate objects :P

and if you're suggesting I test it on users there's those pesky Geneva conventions

Scott Pack

@voretaq7 What does lust have to do with it?

voretaq7

15:30

@ScottPack well it's certainly not love - not till I see a ring on this finger!

really?

-1

Q: BackupExec client for Linux - crash on Precise

I recently upgraded my test server from Ubuntu 10.04.4 (or 5?) to 12.04.1, all's good except VRTSralus, the service for BackupExec's Linux client, crashes on start... Symantec being bad as usual on support, I'm told to wait. Anyone encountered the issue? solved it? If so, how? Here's my log ...

I'm going to ask the devs for a big popup when you ask a question saying if this is an issue with commercial software for which you have a support contract you must contact your goddamn vendor

Basil

gawker.com/5939192/…

lsiunsuex

have always assumed if people post a question about commercial software that has support that either a: the commercial product's support channels suck ass or b: the software in question is pirated; either way, you should probably move to replace said crappy software

Chris S

@ScottPack I prefer the Beach Club, but they don't have sprouts since the scare last year or whenever it was.

Scott Pack

@ChrisS Lame.

Anarko_Bizounours

bye lads

Chris S

15:43

Anyone got Outlook running on OSX? Does it have the option to Share a Calendar with other people???

Basil

I just "found" 35 TB of space on one of my XP24000s. We've been releasing space lately, but nowhere near that much... I sure as hell hope nothing is broken

voretaq7

@ChrisS you can run Outlook on OS X?

MDMarra

@voretaq7 Office for Mac 2011 rebranded Entourage as Outlook

voretaq7

Hey - flag mongers! Why don't you search for questions with "Solved" in them?

usually those are shit :)

MDMarra

@ChrisS I wasn't talking about that school specifically, more about the look into the failin schools and why there's a 60% dropout rate to begin with

Obviously that charter school is where everyone wants to get into, but the doco was more about the plight of the school and kids being heartbroken when they didn't win the lotto to get into a charter

I wasn't saying everywhere should be like the charters shown in the movie, but that it gives an insight into why the dropout rate is so high

@Basil I just commented in reply to the comment you left on my lazy zero answer

Chris S

15:52

@voretaq7 I dunno, I've got some guy telling me he's got Windows 2010 on his Mac, and I'm trying to get his Exchange Calendar shared out. =]

MDMarra

Does that make more sense now or am I inventing new storage stuff as I go along ;)

@ChrisS Tell him to use OWA

:)

Chris S

I don't know the address of his OWA... maybe I can guess it.

MDMarra

ohh, didn't realize this was an external person

Dig the MX and start from there ;)

Chris S

Yeah, we don't allow Macs in our network. =P

lsiunsuex

@ChrisS having a Mac on your network increases your sex appeal. Its like parking a POS next to a Ferrari. Instant glam shot.

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