@ChrisS SUUUUUUUCK!

i have

in the movie the only thing the seagull say is "mine"

always "

mine

ah

Mine shows up with varying degrees of accuracy (±1000 feet), but if you refresh it you'll usually get a lock within 10 feet

i got it now - dont think its funny - but i got it :)

@lsiunsuex The samsung phones are like the fish. And apple's lawyers are like dumb seaguls trying to eat them. I don't see what's not funny about that...

plus, now every time I imagine them arguing in court that they own the patent on rectangles with rounded edges, their eyes are really close together.

a company trying to protect its patented properties is not funny - regardless if the general population thinks those patents are valid or not - if the patent office issued them, their valid and the conversation is over. if a court found apple in the right (and they did) it strengthens it. NO, i do not agree that software patents are legit (or UI for that matter) but that doesn't make it any different. a win is a win. a patent is a patent. pay up bitches

@Basil I get it. The joke is funny. The joke on the American justice system and consumers, that's not so funny.

is the patent system flawed? fuck yeah. but till its fixed, they won.

@lsiunsuex The patent office awarding stupid patents is not funny. It's sad. Apple trying to enforce them is absolutely funny.

@lsiunsuex naw, they'll lose on the appeal, considering the comments of the jury

@Basil Who where??

@ChrisS grocklaw reported the day of the verdict that they claimed to have avoided the whole issue of "prior art" to award apple the verdict faster.

@Basil I'm not so sure about that - I really don't feel Samsung made a solid case for prior art

(by which I mean the lay definition of prior art -- "Show me a smartphone like the iPhone introduced before the iPhone")

Oh lordy... email woes.

@ewwhite just use google.com/apps/business

Pssssth.

actually: highscalability.com/blog/2012/8/23/…

A customer's IT person is at VMWorld... so I'm fielding all of the support calls

a two-location Exchange setup... and all sorts of things relay through those exchange servers.

perfect! it took me < 30 min to setup google apps for business the other day and repoint my mx records :)

I realized that there are NO reverse PTR records for either Exchange server.

so they are getting bounced/blocked/flagged nonstop

@ewwhite DIRTY FUCKING SPAMMER!

:-)

@voretaq7 Well, it's not like I didn't write a big post about this... But this is stuff that admins should know.

One of their customers went to Office 365 and Office 365 blocks based is the sending server is missing a PTR record

if its a problem with office 365 - call them? really, not to be a dick, but if its supposed to be working a certain way and its not...

@lsiunsuex 's not a problem with Office365, it's a relatively common anti-spam measure

Office365 calls it as an absolute drop instead of a "really bump up the spam score"

sounds like a problem to me

@lsiunsuex design choice != problem

@voretaq7 Right... and I think it's a little irresponsible to block solely on the missing record.

A properly configured mail server will have matching forward (A) and reverse (PTR) records...

But the added complication is that the customer is using fiber with AT&T.

AT&T won't give you a reverse PTR unless they host your forward DNS.

a design choice that goes against the grain and doesn't work how people expect it to == problem

@ewwhite I effectively do it here - Missing PTR adds +15 to your spam score. 5 and over is dropped, so you'dd have to have -11 in "valid shit"

it's the strangest policy.

@ewwhite I've had AT&T do a CIDR delegation to me before

@voretaq7 Yes, they'll do that, too..

it was a fucking pain in the nutsack to get them to do it and I had to explain to them what it was

but they did it, and it works

But it's contrary to how every other ISP/telco works.

@ewwhite IDK why they would want to host your forward zone, but I know why they don't want to be doing reverse zone management for everyone. They've got a lot of IPs, that's probably full-time work for a 3-5 man team...

@vore DO you care that it's a matching forward/reverse or just a stub?

reverse zone management at invision was a pain

@ewwhite Nonexistent = +15, I think not matching is +4

if it's not a match I don't auto-drop your mail, but it's hard to get through.

AT&T cites the volume of IP's as their issue... and they don't want to do anything unless it's requested. But then joe schmoe admin comes along and never thinks about it.

the reason for the forward DNS is so they can make sure that there's some accountability. Usually, I'll give AT&T some lesser domain owned by the same company.

(or just avoid them altogether)

I just demand CIDR delegations :P

or host with a reseller who has the /24 delegated to their NS - makes life hurt much less

@voretaq7 Just put it in as a Class-C and don't worry about it.

@ScottPack nah that really fucks shit up. If you don't own the whole C block you really need to do the stupid CIDR CNAME thing

bye guy

+s

@voretaq7 Shit, I don't know what you guys are talking about. I just popped in and mentioned classful assignments to be a dick.

@Anarko_Bizounours buy guys? Coin operated boy?

@voretaq the customer just asked AT&T to delegate the block.

and they did it!

@ScottPack Not a big fan of C-Class's, prefer E's :)

(quickly, too)

@ScottPack RFC whatever-the-fuck-it-is classless reverse delegations

so now, there's the other issue... Sonicwall firewalls.

@ewwhite yeah if the customer owns the whole reverse zone AT&T is THRILLED to delegate that shit.

"You want it? FUCK YES WE'LL GIVE IT TO YOU!"

Inbound static NAT is fine. Outbound is PAT, it seems...

12.228.xx.2 is the firewall...

12.228.xx.4 is the server

outbound traffic from the server is coming from 12.228.xx.2

@Chopper3 You would. My personal fav has always been D.

and I see this happen all the time with people configuring Sonicwalls...

Why?

Nobody wants to touch it, I see...

@ewwhite Sorry. Not wearing gloves :P

I'm trying to understand why I see this with people who've configured Sonicwall firewalls.

The, very few, Sonicwalls I've seen have been managed by people who entirely use the gui wizards. I wonder if it's an oddity in there.

It seems like it may be a confusing GUI option/flag that gets missed.

sonicwall terminology is usually different from the norm i've seen

@lsiunsuex 30 users * $5/mo * 12mo * 100x = $180,000/yr <-- They think my company spends THAT MUCH on e-mail... Google's out of their f-ing minds.

@ChrisS Am I weird for not liking gmail at all?

well, windows server license + exchange license + sysadmin pay per year - ASSUMING you upgrade windows / exchange versions when their released...

whats the * 100x ?

@ewwhite Yes and No. It's great for businesses too small to have a SysAdmin, even on a hourly-contract basis. If you mean GMail compared to something like Hosted Exchange or whatever... I think it's a matter of taste and cost/benefit, like picking an iPhone because it's both functional and a status symbol.

@lsiunsuex The article you linked to say GMail is 100x cheaper than hosting your own e-mail.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what they're talking about??

so its 1800 / year, not 180,000 / year

GMail would cost a 30 person company 1800 (or 3600 for the other plan) per year. The article says running GMail is 100x cheaper than running your own E-Mail server.

right

It's a short blurb, maybe I'm confused by the lack of context.

so whats it cost you to run your own email server - assuming its not open source linux

and even then, figure in the cost of a sys admin

mornin' gents.

1800 is less than a 2 week paycheck for me

for most of us i'm sure

@ChrisS My boss about pissed himself when I did the math and quoted what it would cost us to out-source our email.

@ChrisS Keep in mind that the article is from the perspective of the datacenter. I suspect they are saying that it is 100x cheaper for Google to provide it. Not how much you pay.

I was at a 115-person company that paid $20k/year to outsource Zimbra

Running e-mail can't take more than 1% of my time, that's 24 minutes per week... Me and servers, electricity, surrounding infrastructure amortized over a realistic age... Running my own is 10% cheaper per my napkin calculations.

I moved that to an in-house Exchange solution for $12k.

@ewwhite Yeah, that's one of the items he was looking at. We're over 500 accounts here too, the bill would've been larger than our current non-salary IT budget.

@Adrian In-house Exchange... do it right. Be done. Everything else seems like a compromise. You're a Linux environment, though... would users be okay with webmail?

@Zoredache That could be... The costs per mailbox that Google incurs may be 100x less than what I incur when I host... That still doesn't sound like a holistic picture, but at least more realistic.

as someone said above i think; in the view of a small company that doesn't have in house IT it makes more sense

100+ boxes, yeah - its getting expensive

we considered it for 150 boxes and the last time we looked, google cant limit where an email account is accessed from, or else we'd consider moving

@lsiunsuex My suggestion is that you be a k-12 institution. Then it is free.

ie: i ONLY want the email acct accessed from inside my lan

Just work in education then gmail is waaay cheap

Yet some of the universities in my area have just done major Exchange migrations.

(M$ must be giving it away)

Anything education I have found is 30% the costs businesses pay

@ewwhite Microsofts new Hosted Exchange thing is also free/cheap for K-12.

and... 25gb of online storage

you guys have said it yourselves - how many PST's have you seen in excess of 14gb, 20gb

BTW, someone recommended an SSL provider that had prices the same as, or better then Godaddy a while back? Do you remember who was being suggested? I would like to move away from Godaddy.

@Zoredache certificatesforexchange.com ?

@ewwhite They already have a certain degree of Squirrelmail usage amongst hourly staff that don't have a desk assigned to them. Squirrelmail is the retarded step-child of Hotmail though. =/

@lsiunsuex I've had 10-20 over that size.

Right now there's effectively no cost for our email other than spam-filtering by McAfee and electricity to run the server. Even less of that once I virtualize that Postfix box and its 320G of stored email.

@Zoredache I use digicert, but that may not be cheaper

@Adrian hard to manage. Missing features that people want.

@Zoredache what kind of certs fo you need?

At the moment, just a standard boring cheap web server cert that will be trusted by most browsers.

startssl.com

their free cert works in the big browsers, and it's free :-)

Thanks, I think I'll try that. It seems like it might be cheap enough to try. :)

@ewwhite I have the management scripted rather well finally. The features, well yeah, that's slightly problematic.

@Zoredache their EV is a little pricey - I need to find a new EV provider and registrar for my company so we aren't dealing with NoDaddy anymore

@voretaq7 Usable for Exchange?

@ewwhite What particular qualities do you need for a cert to be usable by exchange?

@ewwhite I don't see why they wouldn't be - what does Exchange need that's special?

@voretaq7 If you want everything to work you basically need a cert with a half dozen names on it usually using SAN, but a wildcard can also work.

That is if you care about all the auto-discover/auto-detect magic.

that link i gave is what we used for our TLS for exchange - has worked fine

Basically the Unified Communications cert... 4-5 names on it.

I don't think startssl will give you a wildcard or insane-number-of-SANs on a free cert

I thought exchange needed a UCC. Didn't think wildcards played nice

@MDMarra Everything seems to work for me. I am using a wildcard. There may be some obscure edge case where things break, but it doesn't apparently apply to functionality I use.

Argh. The Stupid, it burns.

The survey of more than 1,000 American adults was conducted in August 2012 by Wakefield Research and shows that while the cloud is widely used, it is still misunderstood. For example, 51 percent of respondents, including a majority of Millennials, believe stormy weather can interfere with cloud computing.

citrix.com/English/NE/news/news.asp?newsID=2328309

all cloud servers run on rasberry pi devices connected via wifi held aloft in the clouds by helium balloons

@tombull89 Millenials are perhaps the most clueless generation I've ever seen. =/

@tombull89 If a lightning strike hits the transformer at/near the datacenter, then stormy weather will interfere with the cloud.

@tombull89 I saw that this morning on the train :)

I'm totally going to start a circular rumor at work

I'll tell someone that Ian warned me about the cloud because of its risk to adverse weather conditions. Ian will tell people that I warned him about it

After about 4 hops, we're scott free and the rumor can't be traced to us. Hopefully the IT director will catch wind of it.

Though stormy weather may be a good thing, since the backhoe operators will generally go inside.

@Zoredache . . . not here

Here they keep digging, bust a hole into the concrete vault, and now your fiber is WET and torn up.

A facebook friend blames Microsoft's Cloud campaign for that misunderstanding...

I like it when other people fix my posts for me

saves me the trouble of having to think and fix :P

@Adrian aye.

@voretaq7 Herp-a-Derp. I don't care how anything works as long as Facebook comes up on my phone. That's somebody else's job to do that unpleasant stuff.

@Adrian Go talk to your grandparents sometime. They were primarily hard workers because you have to be when you know so little. Millennials are the most self-entitled and lazy generation I've seen, but not "clueless".

@ChrisS My definition of Clueless includes not knowing and not caring. That's pretty much the Millennials.

It's pretty easy to be a pessimist here though. The Stupid is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

@ChrisS My definition of clueless is not knowing how to change your own tire on your car

(I don't care if you're a pansy or a priss and can't or won't do it, but really - you should be able to describe the process).

i know how to change a tire! call AAA

@voretaq7 Yeah. I absolutely detest people whose idea of "dealing with a problem" is to have someone else do it for you. That's probably why I'm dating a woman who does her own maintenance on her '63 Plymouth.

@lsiunsuex I know how to change a tire - Call the shop and say "Hey Don - that new nose tire we put on? The tube must be shot 'cuz it's flat now"

@voretaq7 You missed the first step that involves swearing a lot.

@ScottPack Nah, more of an eyeroll

last time we went to take her up my (3+ year old) battery had gone flat, so I had the shop do a bunch of stuff that was on my list. This is just par for the course :-)

Why the hell do so many technical recruiters have such poor command of the language they're recruiting people in?

@Adrian Now that's attractive.

@tombull89 Didn't a lightning strike take out EBS in VA?

Cloud on cloud action right there.

@voretaq7 i.e. front wheel of a plane?

@MikeyB yah

@voretaq7 is fucking with me cause i'm a little bitch when it comes to flying

i scored my zanax - i'll be fine (maybe)

my car it's more "Curse loudly, drag spare out, change tire, drive to tire store, replace tire. pay bill (optional:curse loudly - if all 4 tires are due to be replaced that's painful.)"

tirerack.com/tires/… <- grumble grumble*fuckingtires*grumble grumble

i paid way to much money this last winter for new tires for my prius - close to $800 at sears

was not happy about that

damn boy, you got raped.

yes, i know

@lsiunsuex The thing is, it's normal for you to have fears, doubts, etc about flying. What's not normal is assigning them a disproportionate risk. You must remember, when you're anxious about flying, that your brain is assigning that risk incorrectly, and compensate as best you can.

This is what I tell me wife when she's doing the same thing. It seems to help her a little...

The cheapest tires I'll put on my car are $97, so the extra 11 bucks is worth it to me, but even with installation I'm less than $800 :P

well, the risk is that the plane crash - best case scenario - i live and i had a terrifying experience. worst case - i die and i have nothing to worry about

I don't go terribly cheap on tires, they tend to last for quite a few years and I demand a certain level of performance from them.

@lsiunsuex Wow... sears wants $136 per for those tires.

@voretaq7 plus all the shit they tack on is what got me higher than i thought - 544 before tax so it should have been close to 600 ish

@lsiunsuex No, that's a possible outcome. The "risk" is the likelihood of that happening. The risk there is about on par with you slipping on a banana peel and killing yourself.

@voretaq7 tirerack.com/tires/… My favorite tire.

as sick as it sounds, i think the reason it bothers me more now adays than it did a few years ago when i flew for the first time since i was 5 is that i have shit on the line now. i have a startup website that i very much want to succeed. i have a wife. i haven't accomplished anywhere near what i want to in my life that i'd like to. the risk of the plane crashing and not being able to accomplish those things disturbs me more than actually dieing i think

ie: i'm not ready to die yet; i haven't accomplished what i want to yet

@lsiunsuex You're MUCH more likely to die in your home than in a plane....

@ChrisS Tires will last me 2-3 years -- I'd cook those bridgestones though

@lsiunsuex The AWD cars are crazy expensive since you can't replace just one or two.

yes, i've heard that

@Adrian and they can only be rotated in a certain pattern

plus depending on the light plane and how OCD the owner is about maintenance they're in better condition than your car

southwest whatever it is. think they run 737's from buffalo to vegas

(e.g. mine @ 47 years old needs a paint job. Mechanically and structurally it's in better shape than my car -- It doesn't misfire under load :P)

Yep. I talked the GF into going through Costco. Was a little under $500 which is cheaper than any other set of tires I've bought for a Subaru

@Adrian you really never replace just a pair of tires if you're doing it right

My tread depth is within 1/16 of an inch on all tires

@voretaq7 Or if you do, you end up replacing major drivetrain components sooner or later

@Adrian yah. Brakes I tend to replace on off-intervals (rears, then front) but that's because I have my brakes adjusted to bias the rear wheels

and it's usually "Replace this now so we don't damage the rotors" :P

i'm not sure if this is ridiculous or not gizmodo.com/5938931/…

@voretaq7 Aye. As opposed to my Ex whose idea of managing vehicle maintenance was to eventually remember to mention the chirping the next time I ride in her car with her since she never let me drive it.

@voretaq7 Yeah, but people whine about the safety and comfort of their own home...

@Adrian mine doesn't chirp :-/

or at least it's not reliable (ceramic composite pads so they squeak when cold)

@voretaq7 Good point. That might've been a GM thing.

I owned about 6-7 of those over the past couple decades before going over to Subaru and Fords for my trucks.

but the car goes to the shop regularly for 5K oil changes, and they check the pads as part of my standing service order

@Adrian depends on the pads - I could get regular fiber/asbestos pads and they'd have the little chirper bars in them

these pads are original and I just did the rears @ 70K

so that's decent as far as I'm concerned :)

@voretaq7 True. I don't even drive the truck 5k/year anymore, so I don't really have a usage pattern let alone a standing order for such things..

The bikes on the other hand, get a lot of miles between the 3 of them.

@Adrian at least bikes are easier to work on :)

@voretaq7 @lsiunsuex I couldn't resist looking up the figures. In 2008 there were 884 flight-related deaths, out of 809,611,003 Commercial passengers. That's 1:915,850. Accidental deaths at home in 2009 were 118,021 out of 307,346,354 people in the US. That's 1:2604

wtf happened in 2009

Also, you're odds of being hit by lightning are about 1:100,000

@lsiunsuex That response is exactly the problem. People underestimate the risk of things they're familiar with!

did you have a typo on the 1:2604 ? seams low

@ChrisS Hardly surprising, given the ratio of time you spend at home vs. on a plane. But then again, most people don't consider that.

@ChrisS Are those worldwide numbers? THat would explain 2009's figures

sorry, didnt see the at home

No typos, double checked. You have a 1 in 2604 chance of killing yourself in your home.

@voretaq7 The accident numbers are US only. The Flight numbers are worldwide. I already spend more than 5 minutes looking that stuff up...

Odds of being killed in a Car Accident is about 1:6500

Odds of being killed on the job are about 1:48,000 (obviously depends on what business you're in too)

@voretaq7 And that's how many deaths per passengers??

@ChrisS Not sure per passenger, but 288 total GA deaths in '09

@lsiunsuex The "at home" numbers do include incidences where "natural causes" contributed to the death... So if an old guy fell off a ladder and had a heart attach, it was still an accident. The main point is still that your house is just about the most likely place you'll die, and where people feel the most safe.

Part 121 (commercial airlines) are 3 per million flight hours (1 fatality in 2009)

NTSB summary report (probably where @ChrisS got his data too)

@voretaq7 Yeah, my number is a bit skewed, but the point stands that you're at least hundreds of times more likely to fall on a knife in your kitchen than die on a plane.

@voretaq7 World wide numbers baaa-acro.com/Liste%20des%20deces%20par%20annee.htm

@ChrisS yours is probably more accurate for global stats - I'm only considering NTSB stats (so US-flagged or foreign carriers operating within the US)

the numbers probably get more favorable for GA if you exclude Alaska too

"Except in Alaska where it's different" is pretty much a mantra in in the FARs

@voretaq7 Either would be relevant, but need to be able to distill it to odds.

@ChrisS 's why I use the "per N hours" numbers

This year I've logged around 80 hours in the air, so 12*(80/100,000) => P(0.0096) -- I'll take those odds

I'll even skew them and say since I have relatively low hours my chance of going splat is ~ double that - so P=2%

i still think it would have been cool to drive to LV

see the country

google maps says its only 36-38 hours - add a hour or 2 to get gas / bathroom / food

couple guys - swap drivers every 4-6 hours - go none stop

@lsiunsuex I've driven to Quebec city -- I'd rather fly :P

Hell I'd rather put myself in a human mailing tube and let someone else fly.

i drove to florida in a moving truck to open an office - 26 hours on the road - wasent bad - on the way there we got a room, on the way back we did it none stop

I hate having to maintain shitty orphaned code thrown together in a rush by a Developer.

I drove to North Carolina in ~11 hours. That wasn't terrible. Hit a snow storm on the way back and it took 14 hours to get to Toledo where I crashed for the night, and another 5 hours to get back from there. I'd rather fly.

@Adrian Bad Software Widows and Orphans fund donations gladly accepted...

@lsiunsuex Take the train, all the safety of your car and none of the speed of a plane. =]

@ChrisS . . . but you get a bed and the food service is better

@voretaq7 BADSWOLF?

a tour bus goes from buffalo to LV but i think that was 3 days when i looked it up

@voretaq7 The bed and food are just as luxurious (expensive) as a plane...

obviously a tour bus wont be doing 100mph down the highway like i would

@MikeyB Developers are the Bad Wolf -- they create themselves (a headache)

Most state would put you in jail for reckless driving if they caught you doing 100mph.

To everyone that was discussing the prior art issue in the apple trial before- groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120828225612963

"That isn't disqualifying for prior art. It doesn't have to run on the same processor. It doesn't have to run at all. It can be words on a piece of paper."

@ChrisS I could make the same argument though - long distances (> ~300 miles) in my plane are a 3-4 hour trip, no bathroom, no food service

so all the luxury of your car, but faster.

(and more fun)

@Basil Yep, ripe for appeal... and overturn.

@voretaq7 your plane sucks; go get a citation.

@ChrisS And I'm waiting for Apple to get hit by the Motorola Patents bus too.

I don't think anyone will sue Apple unless Apple messes with them first; the big players at least.