« first day (692 days earlier)      last day (4575 days later) » 

10:12
@SmallClanger Corsair Survivor.
@growse better to just leave it there unanswered, someone might get the same problem in the future and answer it :)
@tombull89 That's the one I'm looking at. They're a bit chunky for pocket use, aren't they?
10:57
@ColdT thank God it's read only Friday. I was about to do something with our master LDAP, but no, I have learnt my lesson. Must not do difficult work on Friday.
11:15
funny error from MS NPS: "There is no domain controller available for domain P-00206."
P-00206 is the computer name...
12:11
should i ruin my day and upgrade my main win7 desktop at work to win 8 ?
#adventerous_friday
@lsiunsuex Is your main desktop also a tablet?
no, it is not
@lsiunsuex Then, no, you shouldn't
how bad could it be without a touch screen ? :)
12:12
haha
If you want to be adventerous today
install the new windows server
what the heck
3 of them
AD/DNS - FileServer - Management Server
Make sure you install the first 2 without GUI ;)
12:26
I actually really can't wait to deploy WS 12
or whatever the fuck it's called
HA non-clustered DHCP!
@MDMarra How does that actually work?
talking of touch screens did you read that MS have had to drop the name, but not the concept, of the 'Metro' interface - someone already owns it, now it's just 'Windows 8 UI'
@SmallClanger Probably the same way that ISC dhcpd has done it for like a decade
The DHCP databases are essentially just mirrored between the two servers, so either one can issue an address from the same overlapping scope since they're aware of each other's leases
windows 7 enterprise cant be upgraded to windows 8 enterprise n - bullshit!
what? fucking REALLY???
12:31
i didnt think you could upgrade any non-n edition to an n edition since they're effectively different localizations
@MDMarra I think I am going to wait to rebuild our DHCP server until that comes out.
@lsiunsuex beta for now, I think it will be available on release...
theres only a few of us here with enterprise - the rest are pro
@lsiunsuex Er, you never could switch between the normal and "n" versions...
bullshit i tell you, bullshit!
12:38
Same with the other version... "K" I think it is.
@lsiunsuex Why?
joking
@MDMarra I was wondering how it avoided race conditions, but then I found a nice webpage. ipamworldwide.com/dhcp-failover-a-load-balancing.html
I'm not 100% that it mirrors ISC's implementation
But I'd imagine it's similar
It's a difficult beast, keeping it responsive, authoritative and fully synched.
Look at what you made me do @islunsuex
12:51
?
had to click it - nice
sacraficing a win7 pro right now to put 8 on it
we do actually have an HP touch screen 27 inch they bought for a special project here - will have to hook it up and see how it is
13:08
morning
Olympic trampoline this morning...
That's a thing?
Yes, it is..
All this HD slow-motion video is deeeep....
How do they score trampolining ?
Gymnastics-style... Two routines; One compulsory, one artistic.
13:12
I can't believe that's a thing and that I'm missing it
Women's Olympic Trampoline?
NBC commentator says, "he just jumped as high as two double-decker London buses!"
Haha.. Men.
Must be nice not having a real job, amirite @ewwhite
My references were just subjected to hour-long reference calls this week.
hour long?
13:14
@ewwhite Those stupid commentators... I wanted to call NBC last night and tell them "You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means"
what word was that or is it a whole dictionary of them ?
@ChrisS What were they saying?
@MDMarra Yes, an hour.
Ryan Lochte's mom said he doesn't have time for a relationship and only has "one-night stands" when she meant that he only usually goes on first dates, since he travels all the time
That made me lol
I'm having a brain fart and can't remember. =]
Hooray for fridays
13:16
@MDMarra Live video!
@BartDeVos +1!
@ewwhite You're a hero
@MDMarra I believe the one-night stand comments...
Ryan Lochte
I mean, I'm sure it's true, but I doubt his mom knows
Pretty-damn tacky....
13:19
Yeah, it upsets me that grills are spreading to white people. We already look goofy enough as it is.
@MDMarra Spreading? They were over in 1999...
This was an American-only thing, right?
I don't know enough about oral jewelry to answer that.
I do believe his bejeweled teeth are a representation of the stars and strips of the American flag...
Oooh, a client question...
This site has a Barracuda Web Filter. The client wants people connecting via wireless to not be filtered...
I deployed a new wireless access point. It sits at 10.1.10.238. The user id is admin and the password is XXX. I would like for all traffic through it to not be filtered through the web filter. I put an exception for 10.1.10.238 in the web filter table but it still filters traffic.
So what's the right response?
As in what do you say to tell the client that it's a bad idea?
No, I'm thinking of 1). how to accomplish it cleanly and 2). whether to explain the concepts behind it.
I think he basically wants a guest network.
13:27
My initial thought is to broadcast an unfiltered subnet
so make a new subnet, exclude the whole thing, put the AP on there.
Well, I have an industrial-strength wireless infrastructure there... Motorola/Symbol with controllers for the warehouse needs. But I bet here, the client just got a Linksys from Best Buy.
I don't know how those Barracudas work, but if they're in-line devices and your wireless is using the same subnet as wired then you're sort of stuck
so you'd just put the wireless AP on its own subnet/vlan to the port...
Or, you could always just have the wireless AP route/NAT if it supports it and exclude the NAT egress
I'd definitely vLAN off an unfiltered/uncontrolled guest WiFi network... I'm probably more paranoid than most with regards to what "guests" bring into our office.
13:30
But I dislike that
Barracuda is inline... Goes [ISP's 1, 2 and 3] -> Elfiq -> ASA -> Barracuda -> HP 4200vl switch.
But yeah, I'd VLAN off a new subnet and present that to wifi guests and make it so that they can only go out, no access to other vlans
Would you configure vlans on the AP or just the switchport?
Thats how we did all wifi at $university. We had a /16 of public IPs and a /21 was carved out for wifi clients. They were right on public addresses
@ewwhite Hm, probably just configure it on the switchport. I'd imagine if they just grabbed a SOHO AP it might not even support that
(now the trampoline people are about to go wacky...)
13:34
I'd sh*tcan the SOHO AP and add the Guest network to the existing WiFi with the new vLAN and subnet... But I hate having SOHO gear around too.
agreed
@ChrisS The fancy wifi infra is only for the warehouse and RF handheld units. It doesn't extend into the office area.
I know, I know...
@ewwhite OIC. =[
But it could... just as easily.
13:48
@MDMarra Hmm, no ACL's on this switch
bummer
You can't use some null route magic?
probably would be a pita
14:03
barely pass 3pm here, I'm ready to knock out for a good few hours
Wish it was 3pm here - it's 10AM
@ewwhite I didn't evern know that was a thing… wow.
@MikeyB just had a crash....
almost off the trampoline...
@ewwhite Gotta find a web stream to watch… fucking Canadian broadcaster requires Windows to view.
@MikeyB I'm streaming live, but it sounds like you're in Canadia.
ooof dude just landed on his head....
14:12
@ewwhite Oooooooooooooooooooooverplay!
@ewwhite WTF you have to sign in to view? As in already have a cable sub? Sheesh
oooh, not good
@MikeyB Olympic Tetherball?
wth is olympic tetherball
It's not a real Olympic sport.
Tetherball is like Swingball, but with a volleyball attached to a rope.
ahh i see
14:20
Many schools over here have a tetherball pole, so it's extremely common for kids to have played it. Not many adults play, though there's a World Tetherball Association that puts on tournaments every year.
Hey Guys, I need to setup one server for live TV for my users. My users requirement is (there are 10 users) they need to access 5 live channels with different session. May i ask this kind of question here?

Thanks :)
@Achu Can you ask that on the main site? I sounds like you're asking for a product recommendation or beginners guide, so no, that would be off-topic. You're free to ask in chat, but there's only a handful of people in here....
If your question is "How do I set up a server for live TV?" it's a bad question.
If it's "I'm trying to use X and I'm encountering this problem: Y" then it's a good question.
@ChrisS Ok, Thanks
@MikeyB Yes i tried my way first
Here is what i tried:
I already tried this using remote connection(different remote session) putting one computer with TV card and 5 satellite decoders. This computer can access the 5 channels, and i make a remote connection for 10 users and they can access the 5 channels normally. But the problem is when someone changed the channel, it will change for other too.
@Achu That's not nearly enough detail. Explain everything to a duck, then post it as a question.
14:32
Ok, thanks i will do that
@Achu So you want the same 5 channels available all the time? Or should users be able to change the channels?
users should be able to change the channels. Deferent channel for each
sorry about that :)
Right, there are 5 inputs. Should the users be able to change what those input channels are. Or should they only be able to pick between the 5 fixed channels?
@Achu Sorry, are you using RDP do delivery VoD?
@Chopper3 Yeah, I think that's the case =]
14:37
well fuck me, I thought I'd seen it all - guess not - wow
@ChrisS Yeah, they should be able to pick the fixed 5 channels only. But when one user change his channel, it should not be affect other users channel.
I'm about to suggest VLC and UDP Multicast, but he's a bit slow answering questions...
@Achu Perfect. Are they all on the same network?
@ChrisS yes.
sorry for my slow replay :)
14:39
@Chopper3 Sorry?
@mdmarra @chriss And what IP range/numbering scheme should I use for a guest wireless network?
@ewwhite IPv6-only. Keep 'em guessing.
ouch..
For a small place, just break off a /24 from whatever larger RFC1918 subnet you're using
@Achu what you're trying to do...stop it, go back and use the right tools for the job, you're trying to make chocolate cake with dogshit and a bag of hammers
14:40
@MDMarra so it's a 10.x.x.x place...
Like I said, when I deployed it at $university, we just gave wireless a /21 of public addresses
just use something similar
But for a place without that many public IPs, something like 10.whatever is fine as long as it's unique
Set short lease times for wifi guest networks too
lest you be fucked by pool exhaustion
I've done 4 and 8 hour leases in the past.
@MDMarra Do DHCP from the switch or from my AD infra?
@Achu go and look at VLC/VLM - read their documentation, see how that's much better then look back at what you've done so far
14:44
@Chopper3 Ok, Thank you for your recommendation. I will look what VLC/VLM are.

Thanks again.
@ewwhite I never like doing DHCP from appliances, but that's me.
from the switch even?
@MDMarra for home yes, work no
yeah, but I mean, if it's just straight up guest wifi internet only it might be fine
@Chopper3 Yeah, at home I don't want to fuck with work shit. I just let me router give me an IP
rdp...........still chuckling to myself
14:47
Install VLC on the "Server" with the video input cards. Run 5 instances of the program, and have each stream (Stream is on the File menu) one of the channels via RTP Audio/Video (Destination in the Streaming Wizard) to addresses 239.1.0.1 to 239.1.0.5 (Multicast address so you don't flood your network). The "client" computers will need player software (VLC works great again); then they can watch TV by opening rtp://239.1.0.1 to rtp://239.1.0.5 in the player.
Think VLM lets you run with one streamer these days chris
@Chopper3 That may be, but I know the suggestion I gave will work.... I should look into the newer stuff.
sure, exactly
I'm no expert on vlc - but it's what I recommend to new SFer wanting to recreate youtube on a VPS
@ChrisS Shit, I didn't know it was that easy. That's pretty sweet.
@ChrisS that's... interesting
14:52
Bonus points for registering rtp urls to VLC so you can send an e-mail or webpage with links that the users can just click on. ;]
posted on August 03, 2012 by Matt Simmons

...but not really to bury it, either. RAID-5 is misunderstood by too many people. It's cyclical, to be sure. We started off with no one knowing what RAID was, then we went to everyone knowing what RAID was (or at least, being familiar enough with it to mistake it for being a backup). RAID-5 was [...]

Watching our local olympics stream on Windows in a VM... currently they're reporting on "If there was a fourth place medal what colour would it be?" And showing "interesting" tweets.
@CTVOlympics Watching ur live stream online. "If there was a 4th place medal, what colour would it be?" "Whogivesashit? Show me trampoline."
@MikeyB did they show that one? :)
That's easy; it'd be copper.
15:07
-3
Q: RAID 10 vs RAID 1 SSDs

SufoI'm considering moving a large database from mechanical disks to SSDs. My initial instinct was to go for RAID 10, but further research suggests that this configuration can significantly reduce the random access performance of the SSDs. The database is very much read heavy and it's generally gene...

I'm not sure we should have anything but metals for the Winner and First Loser anyway...
What the hell is this guy talking about
@MDMarra I'm sure he found some 1337 enthusiasts who know that RAID 10 is slower the RAID 1 because it's got a whole extra layer of RAID in there and everyone knows that RAID is so much slower than just plugging a disk directly into the computer.
The whole silver/bronze thing for ANY sport is quite recent - something like the 1920's/30's - prior to that it was 'Winner and losers'
@ChrisS That's not how I read it...
It sounds like he was told to use raid-10 because it's faster than raid-5
0
A: RAID 10 vs RAID 1 SSDs

BasilYou may have misunderstood someone. RAID-5 is slower than RAID-10 on writes, but RAID-1 can be treated as a RAID-10 with a single pair of disks, and thus has the same performance per "spindle" as RAID-10. The best recommendation for SSD on a database is to use RAID-5. The rebuild time on the in...

Why would anyone waste all that expensive SSD real estate on RAID-10?
15:30
@Basil Because someone told them RAID 10 is betters
and they blindly believe that with their entire heart, soul and mind.
(We call them "Perfect Americans")
@Basil Don't forget, RAID-5 can be faster than RAID-10 on writes.
@Basil I waste the space for resiliency... and from benchmarks, RAID 1+0 still ended up faster in the solutions I've used.
but also, not everyone is in a position to use enterprise SSDs...
@voretaq7 Nope. And my co-worker just pulled a USB HD DVR and antenna out of his bag :) Fortunately I sit next to a window.
usb hd dvr??? is that what people carry around these days?!
@ColdT of course!
Is the speed difference that substantial when using SSDs?
I know there's overhead for the parity calculation but I didn't think it'd be that bad...
15:42
Nice, someone beat me to merging and
@ColdT As in a HD OTA ATSC/QAM tuner, yeah.
@Basil what a touchy bastard
Every time I see this, I cry a little inside. Is it really that hard to assign meaningful names?
# lvs
  LV       VG         Attr   LSize  Origin Snap%  Move Log Copy%  Convert
  LogVol00 VolGroup00 -wi-ao 24.41G
  LogVol01 VolGroup00 -wi-ao 24.41G
  LogVol02 VolGroup00 -wi-ao  7.81G
  LogVol03 VolGroup00 -wi-ao  3.91G
@Chopper3 :P
@MikeyB Yes.
@MikeyB i feel your pain
15:45
@MikeyB Raid 5 for random writes on platters is slower than raid 10.
@MikeyB Mostly because people cut and paste from the fucking tutorials like blind assmonkeys, and the tutorials don't say anything about meaningful names.
@Basil And RAID5 for sequential writes on platters is faster than RAID10.
@MikeyB There's ZERO excuse for not properly labelling PV's, VG's and LG's - just lazy cunts
@MikeyB @Basil I'll settle this argument. RAID0 ALL THE DRIVES!
@MikeyB yup. And in both situations, the operative word is "platter". On an SSD, raid-5 is the way to go
15:46
::hides before someone throws a disk at me::
@voretaq7 Can you imagine a beowulf cluster of those bad boys?
@Basil A beowulf cluster of smartphones, running ISCSI providers, putting their flash in a RAID 0?
(that'd be what we all a "clusterfuck" I think?)
Where'd I put that Macgyver image...
@Basil "Load Earlier Messages"
I meant the one without text :P
15:53
@Basil Eaten by a grue. Because you stored it on the smartphone ISCSI RAID0
@Basil why?
@Chopper3 you can expose almost twice the amount of data to the SSD media performance
what about R10?
it's something I've never thought too much about tbh
If your locality is incredibly high, then there'll be no difference, however as you start to do random reads across more of your dataset, having a larger pool of SSD will be faster
what about UREs?
15:57
@Chopper3 An Acura :-)
@Chopper3 The annualized failure rate for SSDs is about the same as disks now, under a 50% write load. Most workloads are closer to 25% writes.
UREs are drive failures
what about 99% write?
that's a bad candidate for SSD- they only write a little faster than regular drives
don't you get URE's, or their equiv, in SSDs? they can't ALWAYS, 100% of the time be perfect right?
@Chopper3 URE is an unrecoverable read error- they happen, but usually right before the drive spares out
16:00
like I say, I've not done too much work with SSDs, loads on regular 15k's and FusionIO's but not so much with SSDs
@Chopper3 By the time SSDs start throwing errors that your OS can see they're usually about to die
ok, fair enough
recovery from an URE is a simple parity calculation
in raid-5
and that's if the SSD firmware can't recover it from internal magic
true
there's a new 3Par box that's 100% SSD, 512 per controller - gulp
@Chopper3 I really like how you comment on questions from people that don't have a clue and clearly have a small budget and recommend FusionIO kit
It makes me smile
16:01
if the black box inside the SSD spits out an URE, the storage controller should immediately fail the drive and rebuild it on a spare from parity. Which should take a fraction of the time a similar sized hard drive would
@Chopper3 I'd be even less worried there- they have something much more robust than RAID
although their replication is fail incarnate
@MDMarra prices are dropping, and there's more than just them in the game now too - they must be cheaper right?
@Chopper3 I still don't trust local storage, even if it is blazingly fast on a PCI slot.
it's ok for the right application, great for unicast streaming from a decent sized catalogue - though you can put lots of memory in most blades these days and get the same, if not better, from plain caching
yeah, when you're dealing with streaming and other various and sundry non-structured data types, my skillset becomes useless.
@Chopper3 We're toying with the notion of loading up two-processor x3850s with SATA DIMMs. Should be able to fit 32 x 400GB DIMMs in a single box.
16:08
@MikeyB thought they could only take 3TB?
@Chopper3 Hrm? What could only take 3TB?
an x3850 - you mean in memory or flash?
metro is growing on me i guess. still think joe jackoff is gonna flip their shit when they try to use it though
@Chopper3 Flash. 32 × 400GB SATA DIMMs.
ah - thought you meant ram
@lsiunsuex can't call it 'Metro' now, MS have dropped the name, it's 'Windows 8 UI' now - fucking really
16:14
@Chopper3 It's not as slick as this, but still pretty sweet:
woah 400gb sata dimms
That's my kind of thing
@MikeyB ::paws at hardware::
Waaaaaaant!
that is some good eye candy!
mmm. eye candy.
16:19
harr
@lsiunsuex is that what you just happen to have floating around wherever you are in the world?
no - google search for eye candy and switch to images view
everything else it came up with was border line NSFW
how the heck would anyone even realise that the hostd was the issue causing it to freeze up
Lots of stellar questions coming in today
16:31
@ewwhite have you tried switching it of and then on again?
@Chopper3 No. The VMs on the host are humming along.
I can ssh to the host as well.
I just can't get the service that listens on 443 to run
@Chopper3 3 times. You always say to reboot 3 times!
Ahh @ewwhite @ChrisS Reminds me of "The Website is Down".
Some days I hate netapp.
@Basil And you'll let us know if you ever have one of the other days?
16:46
@ChrisS I feel one creeping up on me
@Basil I asked NetApp for a quote for a pair of 3240's plus bits to work in active/standby between two data centres for DR - great quote, prices were spot on - missed off the snapmirror licences entirely but otherwise perfect :)
slightly bored of the olympics now to be honest
@Chopper3 It's because you didn't watch the men's trampoline.
I did see a bit of it, lots of people missing the trampoline which was fun
think they should cover the edges in broken glass to make it more interesting
18
Q: Is there an actual "accept ALL the suggested edits" problem?

Popular DemandOne common complaint on MSO about suggested edits is that some users blindly accept all suggested edits, no matter how minor or incorrect they may be. It seems to come up especially frequently in the never-ending "is a minor edit better than no edit at all" debate. It reminds me of the complaint...

^ Thoughts? ^
@Chopper3 I'm trying to test syncmirror on a 3240
16:54
@Basil these sites are out of sync range :(
have to learn to stop typing out loud
@lsiunsuex only half read that, spineless something?
@Chopper3 I'd be using this for migration- we have a V3170 that needs to move to our new storage
lol @lsiunsuex could be worse
@Basil 7.something?
16:55
@Chopper3 7.3
So I'm not happy that an ESXi host has basically crashed. VM's are running, but I can't connect to the host via vCenter or the client directly. hostd is core dumping
@ewwhite what kit?
DL360 G7 hosts, Nexenta Storage.
@ewwhite can you access via ssh?
Yep.
and that's how I see the core dumps
16:56
hmm so just the process that keeps respawning?
(in a loop?)
it's in uninterruptible sleep, it seems.
so the old "I can't kill -9 it"
ahh good luck restarting then cause that is just $$$$!
my vcenter and other systems are actually running on it!
on the bad host.
so I'm looking at a hard HA restart...
or maybe shut each vm down from within
@ewwhite I blame the storage ;)
@Chopper3 it could be... I was svmotioning off of the old iSCSI volumes to go all NFS>
17:00
I was kidding, just know how proud you are of that part :)
:(
ESXi has now deadlocked.
wow that is seriously screwed :|
Anyone know how to make the netapp fcadmin command work on an expansion card? I need to change a port from target to initiator.
I suppose I'll write up a question
one sec
- t initiator
if you list its status and it says pending you need a reboot
so do an fcadmin config and if you see pending it's bounce-time
it only shows me the onboard ports though
2 sec, I've got a question almost written
17:09
oh sorry, you did say that
What's the difference between Playboy, Brazzers and Victoria's Secret?
1
A: How do you test your porn filter

ewwhiteI'll add a little something here... The web filtering appliances I use all have a lookup feature that allows the submission of a URL to see how it will be categorized. This is done without actually initiating a connection to the site. In addition, the same content database can be referenced thr...

Nothing, they're all for lightweights
Haha... I got a request today to allow brazzers.com for the owner of a company.
4
0
Q: Switch Netapp expansion FC port from target to initiator

BasilI have a v3200 with a 4 port FC expansion card. I am trying to switch one (or all, doesn't matter) of those ports from target to initiator. When I execute fcadmin config, I get: Local Adapter Type State Status ----------------------------------------------...

@ewwhite FAN tastic.
17:18
@Basil I believe @vCole works for them. He could probably help you out
@MDMarra He does, but I don't know what he works on. Might only be cluster-mode...
@vCole Do you have any ideas?
17:30
What the holy fuck does this even mean?
0
A: Under what circumstances (if any) should an MX record point to localhost?

Alex BerryThere is only one instance I can think of, where mail server is also running a DNS server, it check's locally for DNS and this DNS server is not accessed by any other server... And even then, that's unlikely, so basically no. @Mike Pennington sums it up nicely with his comment.

Can someone translate, since I can't make any sense out of it
@MDMarra *pfffffffffffft*… Here, dude. take another hit.
I've gotten into a few arguments with him in other Qs, he posts shit that, literally, makes no sense
How he's almost 2k, I have no idea
@MDMarra So tempting to edit that into "Herp derp derp herp! Derp derp derp MX derp."
@MikeyB s/edit/translate/
hahaha
@voretaq7 Honestly, I have no idea what the fuck your comment means either
Though, I'm sure yours is valid.
17:38
@MDMarra Some mail admins set up a caching resolver on their mail servers & point the mail server's DNS at 127.0.0.1 to avoid bothering their "main" DNS server with lookups
But the context of your comment is determined on your my brain interprets his answer. And that comes out to "I'm tryin to get some reeeeeep, so I'll post acronyms that sound like they work. Aaaaaand, I'm done"
I've never seen the point personally, and I certainly wouldn't serve any records off that resolver -- it should just be a cache (dnscache is perfect for that use)
@voretaq7 Right, but isn't this question about the public MX record being set to 127.0.0.1, not the DNS search order on the mail servers?
Unless I misread everything about this Q, which is very possible
@MDMarra yup, which is why i downvoted the answer :)
0
Q: One of my websites stopped working without apparent reason. Help me figure out why?

user130888Hello I'm running unmanaged VPS at Hetzner with Ubuntu Linux. I use Apache to serve webpages and I have 8 websites on it. One particular website stopped responding without reason. Nobody touched anything on that VPS two days ago and it just stopped responding. The website is Django application wi...

Funny that it's about a SE-ripoff: genije.org
17:47
1
Q: ESXi 5: Disable software iSCSI from CLI

Frederik NielsenI am having trouble with the management agents on my ESXi hosts, as they keep crashing/not responding.. I am suspecting my iSCSI storage, as it works a bit like the wind is blowing - and we have more or less migrated away from it. So I am looking for a way to disable Software iSCSI from the CLI...

I'm still trying to get this host up... rebooting still didn't work!
but the iSCSI is part of the issue, it seems... can't run a df on the ESXi CLI
@ewwhite Have you tried turning it off and on? :)
@voretaq7 I'm faulting nexenta's shady VAAI support for this.
@ewwhite hey as long as I'm not gettin' blamed :-D

« first day (692 days earlier)      last day (4575 days later) »