The Comms Room

voretaq7

19:00

well ubuntu kernel upgrade and build trigger

then lunch

Scott Pack

@voretaq7 Just like ogres, it's all about layers.

Chopper3

just upgrading to 10.8 (refuse to use apple kitty naming) - fingers crossed

voretaq7

Why is NAT like an onion?
- It smells bad?
- It makes you cry?

@Chopper3 don't MAKE Apple switch to Ubuntu style naming

lsiunsuex

tempted to upgrade tonight, but last time i did, photoshop cs 5 shit itself and i kinda need that...

Lucas Kauffman

@voretaq7 read it and check if I'm wrong: security.stackexchange.com/a/17652/3339

voretaq7

19:08

why are you considering security of more than one thing in the universe?
Making more than one thing secure is HARRRRD! :(

(I agree with your assessment - If you're changing the password because you suspect it was or may become compromised it should be a substantial change)

Scott Pack

Any 10.x.0 release scares me. I found it's usually better to wait the week or two until 10.x.1.

Lucas Kauffman

my father has been looking for his glasses all day...I just found them...in the fridge.

Scott Pack

Sure, keeps the prescription fresh. You would probably leave them on the counter to spoil, wouldn't you?

MikeyB

@LucasKauffman I agree.

MDMarra

Anyone install ML yet?

lsiunsuex

19:18

wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07/mist is there a way to bid on shit like this? with a team of 10 close friends, i'll bet half of 10% of what they spent i can do a better job

Chris S

@LucasKauffman You're correct, though I think the reasoning could have been articulated better. ;]

Joel E Salas

Any suggestions on how to monitor the quality of the internets here at work?

It can be intrusive/disruptive

I just need to prove to TWC that their internet is shit. I know it's a tautology but they're cable guys, not mathematicians.

lsiunsuex

run a speed test?

speakeasy.net/speedtest

voretaq7

@JoelESalas "shit" based on what criteria?

Iain

@MDMarra @chopper3 is doing just that atm

22 mins ago, by Chopper3

just upgrading to 10.8 (refuse to use apple kitty naming) - fingers crossed

Joel E Salas

19:26

@voretaq7 Download speed is inconsistent, incredibly laggy at times. Sometimes it's laggy to our colocation facility just 12 miles away.

Chris S

Fricking sales idiots.... "Hi! We're a firm in $My_Location, specializing in blah blah blah" Me: "That's funny, the area code on my caller ID says Boston, MA"

Joel E Salas

@ChrisS Personal mobile?

voretaq7

@JoelESalas so you're looking for causes of those symptoms -- constant ping to a pair of known-good IPs (your colo and somewhere else) for latency and packet loss is a good start.

You can do speedtest and pingtest periodically too

Chris S

@JoelESalas Nah, our phone system has caller ID with name and number. Googling an area code takes 2 seconds....

Joel E Salas

@ChrisS I mean it might be the sales guy's personal mobile

voretaq7

19:28

@ChrisS I used to be able to do that without looking it up

Chris S

@JoelESalas Ah; while that's possible, I called him out on the fact and he's actually in their corporate offices in Boston.

That's the second time in as many weeks that I've done it to cold-call sales people.

Joel E Salas

@voretaq7 AFTER A THOUSAND VENDORS, ONE ONLY SEES DEATH

voretaq7

@JoelESalas nah, just back in the stone age when I was a little baby phreak area codes actually meant something geographically...

Joel E Salas

@voretaq7 Now with the mobiles and the VoIPs it's all different, it's an atrocimacy I tells ya

Scott Pack

@ChrisS I've been finding that a lot of the vendors calling me are local, but their calls get routed out of corporate HQ.

lsiunsuex

19:31

wait till a form of domain names replaces phone #'s - soon. very soon.

voretaq7

@lsiunsuex we already have hosts files...

Joel E Salas

@lsiunsuex How about TLDs

voretaq7

and if your friends are savvy enough to set up VOIP servers you can call eachother as [email protected]

Chris S

@ScottPack Hrm; I'll have to keep that in mind when I ask them why their area code is from $XYZ Location...

@ScottPack Y U NO LET ME HARASS SALES PEOPLE?!

lsiunsuex

should call my lawyer and try to patent that. instead of dialing 7165555555 dial companyx.tele and with an extension companyx.tele/1234

solid

Scott Pack

19:34

@ChrisS I encourage harassment, one just need to do so knowingly. Personally, I don't answer the phone.

Joel E Salas

@ChrisS They have a rough job. All I have to do is show up, push buttons on a keyboard, watch progress bars now and then, stay up late once in a fortnight and crunch maybe if we have a big client coming up. They hustle every damn day to eat

@lsiunsuex If only we had some way to map alphabet letters to phone numbers

lsiunsuex

ahh, modern day limitations

MikeyB

@voretaq7 ew ew ew ew ew SIP over NAT.

Kyle Brandt

@MDMarra There app store keys (for free upgrade) are broken, so not upgrade until they send new ones for me

voretaq7

@MikeyB who the hell said anything about NAT?

and if you don't care about interoperability and REALLY want NAT fine - IAX.

Kyle Brandt

19:35

thenextweb.com/apple/2012/07/25/…

MDMarra

@KyleBrandt only some though

right?

MikeyB

@JoelESalas For fun, include in your IVR a message that says "For (something or over), press A"

Joel E Salas

@KyleBrandt it just works etc

MikeyB

@voretaq7 OK, nearly all of the time, people are behind a NAT.

voretaq7

@MikeyB Perfectly valid instruction.

The telephone signaling system has an "A" tone.

Dual-tone multi-frequency signaling

Dual-tone multi-frequency signaling (DTMF) is used for telecommunication signaling over analog telephone lines in the voice-frequency band between telephone handsets and other communications devices and the switching center. The version of DTMF that is used in push-button telephones for tone dialing is known as Touch-Tone. It was developed by Western Electric and first used by the Bell System in commerce, using that name as a registered trademark. DTMF is standardized by ITU-T Recommendation [http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-Q.23/en Q.23]. It is also known in the UK as MF4. Other multi-fre...

Joel E Salas

19:37

@MikeyB I used to run a PBX behind NAT. SIP to Latin America and the Philippines. It was terrible

MikeyB

@voretaq7 That's what I was getting at :) Not many soft/hard phones generate those tones though. I think zoiper does…

MDMarra

So, we just had a sysadmin leave today

voretaq7

<- has one that does!

MDMarra

he was only here for 4 weeks..

ewwhite

My appstore keys worked.

MDMarra

19:38

Who does that?

ewwhite

@MDMarra Did he start at the same time?

Scott Pack

@MDMarra Have you deactivated his accounts and changed all the local admin/root passwords yet?

Joel E Salas

@MDMarra He didn't take to the ritualistic floggings you gave him?

MDMarra

@ewwhite two weeks after me

ewwhite

Oh, I've left bad situations before... after two weeks.

MDMarra

19:38

@ScottPack yeah

Before he left for the day it was all off

This wasn't a bad situation though

This place is fucking great

He just got a "better offer" from another place

ewwhite

Perhaps he had another calling :)

Scott Pack

@MDMarra Doesn't matter. Liability scares me.

ewwhite

see, now that's not the best move...

It would have to be a substantially-better offer

MDMarra

@ScottPack I was referring to @ewwhite, not you there. His domain admin creds were revoked when he gave notice

His limited user was disabled when he left a couple of hours ago

Chris S

@lsiunsuex .TEL was initially proposed for that purpose. You could dial by letters or numbers, etc. But that's not what it is now...

MDMarra

19:40

@ewwhite That's what I'm saying

ewwhite

Like, bring your dog to work, free car-service, work 10 hours/week good

Scott Pack

@MDMarra Good man. Any other accounts he may have had passwords to?

MDMarra

If you commit somewhere, stick it out for at least a year

@ScottPack Nothing that hasn't already been changed

ewwhite

@MDMarra I stretched one really bad place to 18 months... but it got too abusive.

MDMarra

Pretty tight ship here, unlike $lastjob where I still know the domain admin password

Scott Pack

19:41

That's good to hear.

MDMarra

He gave 3 days notice that he was leaving after only being here 4 weeks

talk about bridge burning

Scott Pack

That's pretty shitty.

voretaq7

@MDMarra that's not burning

that's a bomb raid

ewwhite

Adjusted for the short length of his tenure...

MDMarra

Dude got a brand new laptop, new ipad, 15% free contribution to retirement, etc

And he's out after 4 weeks? Must have been a pretty fucking good offer

voretaq7

19:42

leaving in <3 months is just a torpedo

Scott Pack

If I ever get an applicant from your area I'll make sure to ask if it's him. :)

MDMarra

@ewwhite Haha, yeah that's a pretty high notice:employment ratio

@ScottPack Haha, yeah

voretaq7

like seriously -- you're still in training, you're wasting the company's resources and now you leave...

MDMarra

plus we have flex hours and work from home once a week

ewwhite

Sometimes, playing the 90-day evaluation period can help.

but that's really a sign that you're not committed.

MDMarra

19:44

We're on a 2 week at a time on-call rotation across 7 admins meaning you're only on-call 2 weeks out of every 14

It's really a pretty awesome work environment, minus the fact that I'm in a cube which is a downgrade from having an office at $lastjob

but still, this place fucking rules

ewwhite

@MDMarra I rarely hear anyone say that.

MDMarra

It's got its warts (that I'm working to remove) but they're all procedural. The actual work environment itself is great

voretaq7

@MDMarra decent cubes can be better than shit offices

ewwhite

@voretaq7 it is true

MDMarra

I had a nice cozy office before

Scott Pack

19:46

I think I would be fine in a cube, so long as headphones were reasonable.

MDMarra

Now I'm in a decent cube

Joel E Salas

@voretaq7 I have some buckling down to do

Lucas Kauffman

@ChrisS can you give me some hints how? I really need to learn how to do this properly in English :)

Chopper3

back with 10.8, dictation doesn't seem to work - ah well

voretaq7

I'm in an office bigger than I need.
It would be inconvenient for me to be in a cube because we only have one conference room...

MDMarra

19:47

end user support is in the next row of cubes over, so I get to hear "Helpdesk, this is _____. Your battery is low? Did you plug it in? Yeah, you have to plug your laptop in if the battery is low. You're on the beach? Well, I mean...find an outlet."

Joel E Salas

@MDMarra "Make a battery out of the ions in the sea water"

lsiunsuex

never leave home without a solar panel array ?

have considered solar panels for the house. price and roi was ok with me; feared my roof wasn't strong enough to support the weight old house = 2x5 rafters, not modern 2x10 or 2x12

Joel E Salas

How long was it going to take to earn it back?

MDMarra

BTW, that was a 100% real conversation at 9am today.

lsiunsuex

10 to 15 years

Scott Pack

19:50

@lsiunsuex That's some pretty shoddy construction. When was it built?

Joel E Salas

@lsiunsuex I'll be dead by then

lsiunsuex

1912 i think ?

back in the day when a 2x4 was non dimensional - a real 2x4 not 1.5x3.5

Scott Pack

Kind of surprises me. Most of the houses from that era around here use 4x12 timbers for the roof.

lsiunsuex

that and i don't plan to stay there for another 10-15 years. if i build my next house, yeah, for sure. i'll put it in the design.

MDMarra

@Chopper3 People on the twitters are saying performance is poor

Any thoughts, or is it too early to tell

Chopper3

19:53

Have a feeling it's doing some sort of indexing or something yeah

MDMarra

Probably a spotlight reindex

If you open spotlight, does it say that?

Lucas Kauffman

In belgium you could actually earn money when placing solar panels, but now they dropped the measure again :(

lsiunsuex

@LucasKauffman we get a tax credit here as well and whats not used is sold back to the grid

in buffalo - cause of niagara falls, we don't pay alot for electricity as it stands

MDMarra

My fiancee's family is all from Buffalo

They went up there to see that crazy jesus freak traverse the falls on the wire

Chopper3

@MDMarra nope

Lucas Kauffman

19:54

that still happens here as well, but before you didn't have to pay for your grid attachement, now we have to. Plus the tax credit is gone , which was really massie

Chris S

I already lambasted him with another comment. =}
It's not your English (which I commonly forget isn't your first language). It's just that when people could be right, given a certain set of circumstances, you have to explain why they're wrong for the general case. Because that guy is thinking "If I have X, Y, and Z; then my answer is right", you just have to explain that X, Y, and Z are a rare combination.

lsiunsuex

@MDMarra was hoping he'd fall haha

MDMarra

haha

Joel E Salas

@voretaq7 Serious question: Suppose the terms of your employment change from when you started. Is it fair game to depart?

Lucas Kauffman

@ChrisS ah ok, I will take it into account :p

voretaq7

19:55

@JoelESalas Absolutely.

lsiunsuex

outta here. later.

Lucas Kauffman

@JoelESalas yea definitely

Scott Pack

@JoelESalas But if your terms change in 3 weeks then you got problems.

voretaq7

If you signed an employment contract and the employer springs a substantial change on you it's a renegotiation. If the terms are unfavorable and you can do better elsewhere politely explain why and thank them for the time you spent together.

ewwhite

@JoelESalas In some cases...

SpacemanSpiff

19:56

Looking back over starred posts, I feel this needs a repost

Joel E Salas

@voretaq7 "It's not me, it's you"

SpacemanSpiff

2

voretaq7

@JoelESalas "It's not you, it's this shitty employment agreement"

ewwhite

@SpacemanSpiff Hey, it's Sandra!

MDMarra

@JoelESalas Yeah, that's fair

voretaq7

19:57

@SpacemanSpiff BEER HERE!

MDMarra

But I wouldn't just split, I'd bring it up to my manager and his manager and give them every opportunity to retain me

ewwhite

@JoelESalas I've had the position change under me...

Joel E Salas

@ewwhite How'd that go?

voretaq7

@MDMarra agreed - if I like the company I'll try to find a way to stay.

ewwhite

@JoelESalas I tried to understand what was happening at the company, and make the decision that things weren't going to work.

I'm really picky about it now since there's a high opportunity-cost. I don't want to be unhappy in a position again.

MDMarra

19:58

@ewwhite You're an old man

:)

ewwhite

@MDMarra 32, but have been through some ridiculousness.

voretaq7

I'm in the same boat as @ewwhite -- i will move jobs, but I want to be 100% sure it's a good fit and I won't wind up wanting to leave in a month

MDMarra

You can come work with me

We've got an opening as of 3 hours ago

haha

Scott Pack

I hear that place is shit to work at. This one guy got forced out within a month. Bunch of assholes.

MDMarra

Yep

He got mad that he didnt get to choose what color his work ipad was and he bolted

ewwhite

20:03

@MDMarra $$$$?

@MDMarra Or $.5?

:)

MDMarra

haha

But I'm not the one doing the hiring, so I'm not sure that's 100% accurate

ewwhite

Oops, missed that.

haha

MDMarra

pay attention

ewwhite

but anywho, that's fine. Phila is a rough town.

MDMarra

Market value for a standard SA in the region

Lucas Kauffman

20:06

ffs I missed it

GO AGAIN

MDMarra

@LucasKauffman You live in fucking europe

Lucas Kauffman

@MDMarra I'm curious anyway

MDMarra

haha

jesus christ, everyone pay attention ok?

Lucas Kauffman

right

Adrian

lol

MDMarra

20:07

3...2...1...

Lucas Kauffman

after or before taxes?

Mike

awe I missed it

;-)

MDMarra

everything in the US is listed pre-tax

Lucas Kauffman

how much tax do you pay? here we'd end up getting 45.000 after tax

voretaq7

@LucasKauffman lop off about 35%

('s not just tax. Remember healthcare here is a privilege, not a right...

MDMarra

20:09

After fed tax, state tax, local tax, social security, medicare, healthcare deduction, etc it's like 30-35% less

ewwhite

yeah, 33-35%

voretaq7

so the real number is closer to 40% off the top

Chopper3

@SpacemanSpiff I bought my wife one of those german beerfrau costumes.

MDMarra

I have the Cadillac of health/dental insurance from here and my deduction is like $70 per payperiod for it

Lucas Kauffman

mmm that's good pay, do you get a company car, pension fund, health insurance and phone as well?

MDMarra

20:09

They contribute a couple hundred per pay period towards it

Adrian

@MDMarra Actually, your chat posts didn't show up here at all. They popped up with (removed) before they actually hit my chat session.

voretaq7

@MDMarra large group?

MDMarra

@LucasKauffman Here they contribute 15% to retirement

@voretaq7 not sure what that means

No company car, but they pay for public transit

voretaq7

@MDMarra how many people at your company on the insurance

MDMarra

So I get a $155/mo transit pass good on all trains and subways for free

Lucas Kauffman

20:10

nice

MDMarra

@voretaq7 Not sure. Somewhere between 500-1000

Also, some people have a work phone, some do not

voretaq7

@MDMarra large group :-)

MDMarra

I dont have one, but I get a blackberry when I'm on call that stays in my bag

It has a loud "ALERT ALERT" ringtone of an automated alert gets sent to it

voretaq7

's why your rates aren't terrible --

MDMarra

that's the only time it gets looked at, really

@LucasKauffman re: transit - they also will buy you a parking spot in the garage across the street if you prefer to drive

parking in university city, philadelphia is basically impossible

I'd rather take the train in since there's a train stop 2 miles from where I live in the suburbs

Lucas Kauffman

20:13

@MDMarra yea friend of mine works as a networking consultant now in brussels, brand new company car doesn't get driven because the customer doesn't provide parking, so he gets free public transport on top

MDMarra

nice

The big benefit here is 15% towards retirement

That's not from matching, that's just a stright up deposit monthly into a retirement account

Lucas Kauffman

I'm thinking of doing the same, the trainstop is like 3 minutes from where I work, but I have to take the motorway towards brussels, which is mental around 8 AM and 5 PM

MDMarra

That and they do 100% tuition reimbursement to any university for any program as long as you get a C or better

Lucas Kauffman

@MDMarra that's good as well, especially with the prices in the US

MDMarra

Which is why I've been contemplating going to grad school lately

@LucasKauffman no kidding

Lucas Kauffman

20:15

the only thing which was maybe a minor at the job was that I'm allowed only 1 cert a year

well that they will pay fully

but they say that I can get my CCNA on top of that because the price is so low

MDMarra

Yeah, take advantage of that and get your $1500 CCIE :p

Ok, i'm headed home for the day

later folks

Lucas Kauffman

I doubt I can do it since I'm not doing a networking job there

later :)

Chris S

@MDMarra Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?! I've got excellent medical coverage and mediocre dental, but it costs me $372.30/mo

Joel E Salas

You guys get lots of perks. I get the base salary

Lucas Kauffman

@JoelESalas 2 breads and a bottle of milk a day?

Chris S

20:21

I get a salary in line with my responsibilities... So while I'm at about the 25% marker for my area, my job is pretty easy, flex hours, work from home occasionally, no harassment for taking sick time....

Joel E Salas

@ChrisS Those things have a value of their own, I'll say that much. But grass, etc.

Lucas Kauffman

My stepfather got bollocked by his employer once because he was reading his emails on a sick day...

voretaq7

@MDMarra that's awesome.

ewwhite

@JoelESalas I go for perks and salary.

Joel E Salas

@ewwhite You're also like 99th percentile of sysadmin bad-ass

ewwhite

20:28

Yet I'm not... :)

voretaq7

@ChrisS I've got good medical, no dental/vision (but I don't mind paying for that myself), and it costs me $0. BEST. DEAL. EVER.

Lucas Kauffman

@ewwhite only way to find out is to take a picture of your hairgrowth in the neck area

ewwhite

Clean-shaven.

Lucas Kauffman

Your strength is in your neckbeard, do not shave it

you will end up like Samson!

Adrian

@voretaq7 med/dent/vision for $0 with $10 co-pay and $5 prescriptions if I pick them up, free if by mail.

Joel E Salas

20:31

@LucasKauffman Mine is getting good and fluffy. I even shave the moustache

Lucas Kauffman

@Adrian wait you have to pay extra if you pick them up yourself?

all hail the neckbeards!

Adrian

@LucasKauffman Yes, because it's cheaper to ship them out

voretaq7

@Adrian mmhmm, we're gonna have to knife you in your sleep :)

Adrian

@voretaq7 Plenty of other stuff about my job sucks. The benefits make it tougher to leave.

Lucas Kauffman

meh most of all that shit is already covered here by the gov

voretaq7

20:34

English is having their mod election apparently

Lucas Kauffman

you only need to pay a fee, think 20 for a docter and 35 for a specialist

voretaq7

Evan Carroll is running (also apparently)

I think we're going to find him bludgeoned to death, a dented and bloody copy of Strunk & White next to the corpse...

2

Joel E Salas

@Adrian My only dependent is a cat, I can take more risks than most I believe

Lucas Kauffman

@JoelESalas are you willing to let your cat die?

veterinary costs can go insane

Joel E Salas

@LucasKauffman Do employers provide pet health insurance??

Lucas Kauffman

20:44

@JoelESalas I highly doubt that

Joel E Salas

Sign me up for that shit, I don't want to get stuck with the bill when this asshole eats an entire sock

voretaq7

@JoelESalas I have a fish and a lizard to look after. Nobody I know would adopt them :(

Pauska Sock

@JoelESalas Nooooooooooooooo!

voretaq7

well... maybe @WesleyDavid but I'm not sure he would be a fit parent given what he wants from the lizard...

Joel E Salas

@PauskaSock << HOW DOES HE DO THAT

voretaq7

20:45

@PauskaSock How have you not been lost in the dryer yet?!? :-)

@JoelESalas Secret sock magic.

SpacemanSpiff

hey... how about that, i broke 6k finally

Pauska Sock

@voretaq7 I get lovingly hand-washed. Occasionally.

voretaq7

@SpacemanSpiff I'm sure we can find a few answers to downvote.... :-)

@PauskaSock . . . not going there.

::polishes mod diamond and reminds himself that there are some things that are just too inappropriate!::

MikeyB

@voretaq7 @PauskaSock made you "polish your diamond"?

Iain

@voretaq7 really - even for you ?

voretaq7

20:49

@Iain being a mod sucks man - you get such wonderful setups for things that would make yelling_bird look tame and you can't run with 'em! :-P

@MikeyB isn't that what socks are for?

(yeah that one wasn't too bad to run with)

REMINDER THAT MANY ADULTS LACK THE BASIC REASONING ABILITY OF A MODERATELY-INTELLIGENT TODDLER

Tweeted by yelling_bird on July 23, 2012 at 4:06 AM

^^ I didn't know yelling_bird was a sysadmin

though I guess it fits... I wonder how long it took for his rage to boil over.

lovesh

1

Q: Ideal environment and cost for running a medium size MongoDb server

I know some people will say this question does not belong here but i didnt find a better place on the internet to ask this. Please migrate to an appropriate place if you think it should be. I am using MongoDB to store product data. The text data(product names,categories,attributes) account for ab...

mongodb

Lucas Kauffman

I recently came to the conclusion that stackexchange is very similar in the way the app store works. There seems to be a SE for everything now

voretaq7

@lovesh I'll see your question and raise you a question:

11

Q: Can you help me with my capacity planning?

I have a question regarding capacity planning. Can the Server Fault community please help with the following: What kind of server do I need to handle some number of users? How many users can a server with some specifications handle? Will some server configuration be fast enough for my use cas...

capacity-planning capacity-estimation

:-)

Iain

@LucasKauffman why what's new in SE.salami land ?

Lucas Kauffman

@Iain I just visited @RoryAlsop 's profile, I didn't even realise there were so many different SE

lsiunsuex

20:55

fuck it. 38min left on lion download. they must be getting pounded; fios fiber can take 4gb in minutes

voretaq7

@lsiunsuex I'm waiting until next month :P

lovesh

@voretaq7 i wasnt exactly looking for capacity planning. May be i was looking for opinions rather than answers and serverfault is probably not for opinions

voretaq7

@lovesh "Is this setup ok for a medium traffic site(5-7K visitors a day )." <- Capacity planning :-)

If you have a question about sharding (and you can articulate it clearly) that we can help you with, but "can X resources handle Y requests" is way too environment-specific for us to try to answer...

Iain

@LucasKauffman there are 87 atm

voretaq7

@lovesh that's just my assessment though - someone else might read through and feel differently

Lucas Kauffman

20:59

@Iain with or without beta?

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