The Comms Room

Adrian

00:38

@MarkHenderson Didn't hear back from the contract place, but not worried about it either. Just dropped the inside guy a note asking if he'd heard anything, if it works out that's cool. If not, I'm not going to sweat it. Not sure I'm rigged up for doing contract work just yet.

Mark Henderson

@Adrian Fair enough. It can be a risky business, I'm not quite brave enough to go that route. I only do contract work if I can fit it in around normal work & family

Which means my current day goes something like:

6.30 Wake
7.00 Leave for work
7.30 Start Work
4.30 Leave Work
5.00 Pick up son from day care
5.30 Start making dinner
6.00-6.30 - Dinner + Play time with son
6.30-7.15 - Bed time for son
7.15 - 11.00 - Work
11.00 - 6.30 - Sleep

Which leaves me... calculates... carry the one... 0 minutes a day for myself

Adrian

@MarkHenderson Yeah. Been there. Wasn't happy. Got out. Other aspects of my job suck now, but I'm not on the hook for working from 6 to 6 anymore.

sigh Installing NIS Authentication on yet another new server.

Mark Henderson

@Adrian Well this is by my own choice. Got some large bills that need paying, sigh

Normally it's not so bad :P

Adrian

@MarkHenderson Yeah. I understand that. I decided I'd rather be poor and happy.

DOG DAMN UBUNTU

Mark Henderson

@Adrian Wise words.

Adrian

00:49

They changed the name of the NIS start scripts BACK to 'ypserv' and 'ypbind'

Mark Henderson

I get the feeling that Ubuntu has a lot of hate in the server community

Adrian

@MarkHenderson Too bad none of the other distros I've seen have as much user-facing GUI polish. I'd love to field something else, but nothing works as well for our users at this time.

Mark Shuttleworth needs a shovel to the face.

If he's not actually at fault, well, he can pass THAT on to the upstreams.

Tacticus

to be honest i prefer ubuntu on servers than centos or rhel :\

or even debian

Adrian

@Tacticus Ubuntu gave me a bad taste when our crappy old VPN would crash the kernel on a fairly frequent basis. CentOS didn't crash it more than 2-3x/year whereas Ubuntu was every 6 weeks like clockwork.

Mark Henderson

I love it when Chrome gives you an out of date warning:

"We notice that you're running an old version of Chrome. That's probably because Chrome hasn't crashed in a while causing you to restart."

wfaulk

01:04

@Tacticus i despise redhat, and I live in their hometown, and the guy who wrote rpm was one of my best friends in high school

Tacticus

@wfaulk glad to know that it's not just me then :) though rhel is still better than fedora :|

Mark Henderson

what the fuck?

50

Q: Can you mount a network switch upside down?

We just took delivery of a new Avaya 2500 48-port switch, that has 24 PoE ports. The problem is that all the PoE ports are on the left-hand size of the switch, and our PoE device cables can only reach the right-hand side of the switch (we're upgrading from an old switch to a new one, and the old ...

How the shit is that worth +50 for the question and +150 for the answer? And why can't all my questions get answers like that?

wfaulk

because your gravatar says "29.1k" next to it

Mark Henderson

Can you mount a network switch upside down? http://serverfault.com/questions/384397/can-you-mount-a-network-switch-upside-down?atw=1 #switch

Tweeted by ServerFault on April 30, 2012 at 11:06 AM

That explains it

wfaulk

or that

Mark Henderson

01:08

@wfaulk Unlikely. I constantly ask questions that get no love. I'm actually going to open a ticket with Microsoft for one of my unanswered issues (first time in... years)

ewwhite

What did I miss?

Scott Pack

@BartSilverstrim Como?

Adrian

No intention to offend, but how did that get 50 upvotes?

ewwhite

good question...

:)

Adrian

I have this bizarre urge to upvote it because everyone else has though....

Mark Henderson

01:13

@Adrian I don't know

It's totally not worth +50. I would have settled for +20

Adrian

Is posting a Q with a pic an automatic 5x modifier or something?

WesleyDavid

@MarkHenderson I know, seriously. That question was complete crap.

=P

Scott Pack

@WesleyDavid Question downvotes are free, right?

Adrian

@ScottPack I'm pretty sure they are. Otherwise I'd be running negative.

Mark Henderson

@Adrian Free on either questions or answers. I can never remember which.

Adrian

01:17

@MarkHenderson Qs, for sure. You get answer ones back when the original Q gets nuked.

Scott Pack

If only downvotes were free on answers....

Mark Henderson

I only posted it half in jest anyway; for two reasons:

1. We ordered a 2500, but they delivered a 4550, which has 48x PoE, so the cables reached the PoE ports just fine
2. I had already mounted it in the rack upside down anyway by the time I asked it

Scott Pack

Did you ever check to see how the cooling went in those?

Some dude answered that cooling is always front to back, but, well, that's patently false.

Fucking pixes

Mark Henderson

@ScottPack It goes left to right

Adrian

@ScottPack If there's obviously no inlet on the front....

Mark Henderson

01:20

@Adrian Maybe it uhh, sucks it in through the RJ45 ports?

Adrian

@MarkHenderson In yer switches, slurping your 1s and 0s.

Scott Pack

@MarkHenderson I've seen weird things like that, yeah.

Adrian

screwit. it's humorous so it's getting an upboat.

Scott Pack

I need to go take a good hard gander at the EXes that we're rolling out. Those things sound like a freaking jet engine straight out the back.

Adrian

@ScottPack Gah. I had some beige box SuperMicros like that back in the day. Was quite literally as loud as an idling Mack sitting next to me. Simply ridiculous.

Mark Henderson

01:23

@Adrian Nothing competes as far as I've seen to a fully loaded, early-model Dell blade chassis on first boot. Every single fan goes full speed for about 25 seconds. You almost want to push the power button with a stick and stand about 2 meters back

Adrian

Damn. I so want to post a question regarding best practices for migrating a pure Linux infrastructure to mixed MS/Linux, but it's obviously a polling question at that point.

@MarkHenderson Yeah. That's a bit much. Our IBMs are loud enough when they first fire up, and they're fully enclosed. A blade chassis must be startling.

Tacticus

Cisco nexus fabric extenders are pretty bad

Scott Pack

@Adrian According to the spec sheet the most common model we're using runs at 53 dB. Still looking for the heat output.

Tacticus

we can certainly hear them over the noise 300 people at a lan make

Adrian

Time to scoot out the door gents. Probably be back after dinner....

Scott Pack

01:30

@Adrian Oh, and 508 BTU/hr. That will go as high as 1060 once you start turning on POE. When doing a field visit I normally pull up the floorplan to find which hallway the closet is in, then use my ear to find the door.

Mark Henderson

02:25

So how dumb do I feel? I just learned that SNTP is not "Secure" NTP, it's "Simple" NTP

Someone needs to standardise that prefixing or suffixing "S" onto a protocol denotes "Secure"

And then that'll help make FTPS and SFTP even more confusing

WesleyDavid

@Adrian I would cut you.

ewwhite

02:51

and this is what a modern job ad looks like...

DevOps Engineer at StudyBlue

linuxawsrubytomcatsysadmin

You: A talented, hard working human being who is hungry to do big things. Someone who knows what it’s like to work hard, but also wants to have a life. Building large-scale,…

Posted on Careers 2.0 on April 30, 2012

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Pretty sweet. Glad to see more systems jobs on Careers

ewwhite

Look at the ad...

It's not necessarily a good thing...

It spells the end of classic systems administration.

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Are we looking at the same ad? It looks like classic classic sysadmin stuff.

ewwhite

I had this talk with the people at my colo today... when everything's been moved to the cloud, there's less to deal with internally.

WesleyDavid

In fact, I'm peeved that it mentioned "DevOps" - that's not DevOps. There's no DevOps in that ad. That's 100% what people should be doing.

ewwhite

02:56

that's a devops position...

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Meh, it's just choosing your systems.You want hardware in your building or hardware in someone else's building? You want a virtualization layer that you take care of or that someone else takes care of?

Rename the ASP business model to cloud and you've got yourself a buzzword.

ewwhite

- Minimum four years experience with software development.
- At least two of those years should include direct experience with system administration or operations.

The art of hardware maintenance/management, tuning, networking... it's becoming irrelevant.

WesleyDavid

Yeah, the software development part is devoppy, but most SysAdmins, at least a decade or more ago, knew about software development and could debug the dev's code that was crashing their servers.

ewwhite

oh, no doubt... But it wasn't the focus.

WesleyDavid

I think that the cultural shift from "SysAdmins know code" to "SysAdmins freak out at code" has caused things to fishtail back to "SysAdmins know code" except with different words.

"4 years of software development" seems to be another way of asking for "SysAdmins that know code"

ewwhite

02:59

I see these as different skillsets... Look at the nature of questions on SF recently... They are clearly devops or green sysadmins trying to make sense of their environments.

I've spent my entire career supporting developers in critical production environments.

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Yeah, those are just developers who are clueless about anything that's not in a code window. Not sysadmins. Not devops.

ewwhite

Yet, I'm not a programmer...

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Right.

I'm accustomed to being around systems people who, if they had to, could spend a week or three and be kickass developers in the dev department. They just chose to stick to the ops side of things.

So that's why 1) I very rarely ever consider myself a true sysadmin, 2) I am annoyed at the devops movement that wants to give a name to something that already had a name.

ewwhite

Or maybe I've been around programming environments where the stakes are really high...

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite (P.S. ohwow have the questions been bad in the last few weeks)

ewwhite

03:02

So realtime multithreaded C++ application development is definitely not for me... there's a tremendous gap between where I can code and what the people I've supported can do.

and vice-versa... top devs typically aren't well-suited to managing/maintaining systems.

I'm sure there are examples.

At the datacenter today, someone mentioned that he's seeing people whose only experience with Linux is Ubuntu.

Mark Henderson

@ewwhite Some people, when confronted with a problem, think, "I know, I'll use threads," and then two they hav erpoblesms.

ewwhite

And I mentioned AskUbuntu... and how that's consistent with this trend...

WesleyDavid

Ubuntu is the new Windows!
I personally don't see a reason why someone with heavy Ubuntu experience can't be a stellar engineer. The problem seems to be age old, however. If you lower the requirements to get in, then everyone can get in and suddenly everything thinks that they can climb higher with no problems.

Mark Henderson

@WesleyDavid And then we'll have another .com boom and the smart ones will be left on top

(har har har)

WesleyDavid

So a ton of people who, for one reason or another, meed a LAMP stack just drop XAMMP onto some old hardware and suddenly "HOW IS APACHE FORMED?!"

Although the girl on the XAMPP page is really cute. Love the curls.
I bet she's ashamed of the associated with the software though. =P

ewwhite

03:08

I'm realizing that it's difficult to keep on top of everything. I have to swap certain skills IN at the expense of others....

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Yeah, I'm getting tired of being a jack of all trades and master of none. I've had to let my Windows skills slack way off and now know nothing about Server 2008 R2, the latest AD additions, Exchange 2010, SBS 2011 and on and on. SQL 2012.

But I've had my Linux know-how jump really high as I've been eyeballs deep in working on LAMP stacks.

Mark Henderson

@WesleyDavid Yeah cos every woman in IT looks like that

WesleyDavid

It just... I want to park on one segment for a while and get deep.

Mark Henderson

I work with a few women and they all look like normal people :P

ewwhite

"Oh, let me remember Cisco 4900M multicast networking..." then swap to "Puppet setup..." then "ASA firewalls and Procurve switches"

And then RHEL tuning...

then HP hardware...

and somewhere, VMWare is lurking...

Mark Henderson

03:10

@ewwhite The world needs all-rounders. You need specialists to escalate shit to if you can't figure it out, but ultimately if all we ever had were specialists, nothing would ever get done

Personally I could never be a specialist. I don't have a long enough concentration span

ewwhite

what I'm saying is that the specialized knowledge is less useful...

Mark Henderson

I can do one job for maybe a week at most before I have to move onto something else

ewwhite

I'm an HP ProLiant guru...

doesn't matter nowadays...

Mark Henderson

@ewwhite So, you know how to log into an iLO and plug in a power cable? :P

ewwhite

(to the cloud!)

Mark Henderson

03:11

People forget that someone has to run that "cloud"

GOD DAMNIT I HATE THAT TERM

DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE CLOUD

Im going to find out what fucking marketing department invented them and KICK THEM ALL IN THE BALLS

WesleyDavid

@MarkHenderson Cloud minus a few years was just an ASP anyway.

ewwhite

@MarkHenderson and all of the annoying little HP tricks...

Mark Henderson

But they won't care because they'll be on private yachts in the carribbean sipping unicorn blood becuase they'll have made so much commission

WesleyDavid

I don't hate the cloud at all. I outsource stuff whenever I can.

Mark Henderson

@WesleyDavid I hate the term "cloud"

ewwhite

03:12

The colo I have my equipment at is building their customer cloud.

Mark Henderson

Cloud can me SaaS (Google Apps). It can mean PaaS (AWS). It can mean VPS.

It can mean anything. We already had names for that shit

ewwhite

Xen on Linux + ZFS on Solaris.

WesleyDavid

If I have my way, I'll be a "cloud vendor." I want to build out some outsourced email offerings for people.

Mark Henderson

Can I put my Domain controller in 'the cloud'?

Maybe I'll just take a helicopter ride and throw it out the door. Bam, cloud server. Eat your heart out bitches.

ewwhite

well, I asked who their customers were.

and it was all small businesses who didn't want to have hardware inhouse.

WesleyDavid

03:14

@ewwhite This is in Chicago area, right?

ewwhite

yep

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Exactly, that's my market too.

Less than about 500 people. Maybe have a few IT people, but they don't want to bring some specialized system in and have another thing that can generate syslog events or that they need to update or call support for.

ewwhite

so they move the hardware out...

then they realize they don't need the inhouse staff..

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite Yeah, that happens sometimes. I really don't lose much sleep about it though. Times change. Business models change. shrug

ewwhite

well, this will be an interesting shift

WesleyDavid

03:17

I don't see it happening a *ton* though. What it seems to me is happening is that IT people move services out into hosted services providers, then the internal IT department is no longer in fire-fighting mode. Now they can concentrate on finding ways of actually making money for the business rather than being a cost center.

The problem is that lots of IT people don't seem to be capable of making that shift from grinding away on tickets to actually creatively thinking and having business acumen.

2

Then, yeah, there's cheapskate companies that just fire people out of hand. They're the places that will get devoured by the companies that stop seeing their IT as firefighters and allow them to move into a more business focused role.

ewwhite

I suppose I've always had a view of the business...

WesleyDavid

IT isn't like HVAC or facilities. We can make actually drive business, not just facilitate it.

Mark Henderson

@WesleyDavid To be fair, if you're working in IT chances are you're not interested in making business related decisions or doing cost/benefit analysis

WesleyDavid

I wrote about it two years ago over here: sysadmin-talk.org/2010/06/will-sysbrokers-be-the-new-sysadmins

Oh, and another one: sysadmin-talk.org/2010/06/…

Mark Henderson

I remember when I started in the industry, I said to my girlfriend at the time "There's no way I could ever go into business for myself, too much boring business stuff, too much risk". But now, 5 years later, it's on my mind more and more often

WesleyDavid

03:21

That was when I was in my bushy-tailed eagerness to start my own business and get into hosted services. One bad contract later that didn't pay hardly any money for 18 months of work and I've had some wind taken out of my sails. =)

ewwhite

I enjoy bringing tech to people.

Mark Henderson

@ewwhite You just need to make peace with the fact that the tech you bring often ends up people getting fired

ewwhite

Not in my case... my clients can't afford to keep a good engineer on staff... nor can they provide enough incentive to keep a high-level engineer on full-time.

WesleyDavid

brb testing boot media

Mark Henderson

@ewwhite Ah, yeah, been there. I know for a fact last month that I directly contributed to at least 4 admin workers being made redundant

I don't feel too bad though, they're skilled enough to find another job. And if they can't, perhaps they shouldn't have had the job in the first place.

WesleyDavid

03:29

It should not be this hard to make a bootable USB thumbdrive.

Byte

hello all

Got a mine boggling question

WesleyDavid

awkward silence

Byte

that was to me?

ewwhite

@Byte yep?

WesleyDavid

@Byte So, did you ask it on the main site?

Byte

03:30

ehh??

WesleyDavid

@Byte Yes, that was to you.

Byte

it is a puzzle

was just thinking you guys might wanna have fun with it... sorry...

WesleyDavid

As in, a jigsaw puzzle?

I love jigsaw puzzles.

Byte

more like math puzzle

WesleyDavid

Byte

03:31

dont worry about it, sorry to barge in :)

WesleyDavid

$Mathematics$

I bet they'd lurve it!

Byte

i thought i am in math site

damn it

my bad

WesleyDavid

@Byte =D

Byte

I was trying to log on to math but got bounced here :D

WesleyDavid

Byte

03:32

So for some unknown reason I thought this was it lol

WesleyDavid

Those guys are kwazy.

Byte

math peep?

WesleyDavid

I hate math, but only because it hurt me first.

Byte

i do most stuff in SO main site :)

aww, then what you do?

WesleyDavid

Math touched me in bad places. D=

Byte

03:33

oh dont be so harsh to it, just let it have it once a while

WesleyDavid

Goes back to beating on a USB key.

This should not be as difficult as it is.

Tacticus

Those tower cases really stand out :\

Mark Henderson

Jizz

wtf... is that a dell rack mountable tower being used as ... a tower?

Someone buy that case rack ears!

Tacticus

because they hate somehting or other :\

Mark Henderson

Nice to see the ubiquitous APC 5kva UPS in the bottom right, with the ERM

WesleyDavid

03:36

@MarkHenderson Don't look now but I think someone starred your jizz.

Mark Henderson

@WesleyDavid Damnit, now my jizz is on the wall. That can only be @voretaq7's doing

5

ewwhite

Ah, a good job ad...

(in chicago)

WesleyDavid

Good ol' @ewwhite. Totally unphased by jizz all over the wall.

@ewwhite Gonna share?

The job ad, not jizz.

Mark Henderson

@WesleyDavid You. read. my. fucking. mind.

ewwhite

oh, um...

voretaq7

03:39

@MarkHenderson nominee, best quote starred out of context, 2012

@MarkHenderson also I want to state categorically for the record I had nothing to do with the initial wall-jizzing. I only got here for the second round.

mgorven

1

Q: How can I change the domain name on my application?

I'm trying to figure out how to change my domain from xyz.domain.com/myapp/ to uat.xyz.domain.com/myapp/ The DNS server has been forwarded to the correct IP address. The bigger issue is that I'm unsure how to configure glassfish to associate my new subdomain with this specific application.

java glassfish

ewwhite

@WesleyDavid Job Ad... tbe.taleo.net/NA11/ats/careers/…

mgorven

Should that be migrated to webmasters.stackexchange.com ?

Mark Henderson

@mgorven Hmm, grey area. Rule of thumb: Can you do it on a hosted account (i.e. cpanel?) Then Webmasters. If it requires a shell or a config file, Server Fault

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite kewl

ewwhite

03:42

but THAT is a systems engineer role

mgorven

@MarkHenderson Okay, thanks. (I don't know enough about hosted accounts to figure that out though ;-) )

Also, Webmasters isn't an option when flagging as offtopic.

Mark Henderson

@mgorven I'd say leave it, but if its unloved, you can always give it a bump

@mgorven Not any more. More questions were going to U&L via the mod tools than to WebMaster via VTC. So it got replaced.

WesleyDavid

@mgorven Yeah, we had to take a few developers hostage to get a fifth one on the list. U&L is new.

Webmasters was on the VTC list? I must have been sick that weekend.

mgorven

@MarkHenderson Ah, k

Mark Henderson

@WesleyDavid yeah it was on VTC for about a year. It was one of the first Area 51 sites to graduate, because it was blessed by Sir Atwood himself (it was his proposal)

I was a pro-term mod there, but when I got the modship here I didn't run for re-election.

WesleyDavid

03:47

I think I need a break from my month of ServerFault obsession.

ewwhite

we all go through it

I'm chasing points..

but with all of these devops questions....

Joel

@ewwhite It's quite disheartening

ewwhite

You noticed?

WesleyDavid

"We've secretly replaced each SysAdmin with a Rails Developer and a case of Red Bull. Let's see if they can tell the difference..."

4

ewwhite

feels like it

Is this one more DEV or OPS?

chicago.craigslist.org/chc/sad/2988011487.html

WesleyDavid

03:55

Seems way more ops to me.

Joel

@ewwhite I saw this on Careers, it seems like most employers want admins who can program more than they want programmers who can admin

ewwhite

Yep.

how about this...

captainrecruiter.com/jobs/294

Joel

"Take full ownership of all software deployments"

WesleyDavid

@Joel It used to be that SysAdmins could program more than developers could admin. Then came wizard-driven serverOSs.

ewwhite

Same company. I'm trying to determine if they've refactored the job ad, or if it is a different position

WesleyDavid

03:57

@ewwhite Captain Recruiter. Yeah... no.

@ewwhite That ad seems like they want way more skill than they know what they're asking for.

ewwhite

which one?

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite The captain recruiter one. I @'d the line.

ewwhite

So we need to program more, it seems.

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite I'd be fine with that, honestly. If I could get some decent time to focus on one project.

ewwhite

heh

Mark Henderson

04:11

Man Excel can be infuriating at times. I should't have to use some random macro off the internet just to save a worksheet into CSV with quotation marks around every field. It's a pretty normal standard, Excel.

Joel

04:39

What the hell, Fox. Why are you grilling me about my ethnicity AND my race

Wasn't race discredited like decades ago

Tacticus

o.O

Mark Henderson

05:09

Man, HP must love throwing away money. The UPS we just got delivered came with no less than 3 different sets of mounting screws and cage nuts

Although maybe it's cheaper to include all of them than field the few requests they might get for people with weird-ass racks who have hissy fits because they got the wrong cage nuts

(doesn't explain why it came with 6 bolts though, when it only takes 2 to screw it in place)

Journeyman Geek

spares?

Mark Henderson

Possibly. In case you drop then down the side of the rack and your fingers are so fat that you can't get them out

(entirely possible)

But if that's your problem then like me, you probably literally have a whole drawer full of M6 bolts and cage racks :P

(not saying I have that problem, just that I have a drawer full of spare rack mounting gear)

One more reason to want to kick RIM/Blackberry in the balls: theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/…

Tacticus

05:27

@MarkHenderson what's the list up to in total?

Mark Henderson

@Tacticus I ran out of fingers and toes

Joel

@MarkHenderson Even with typical cat polydactyly?

Mark Henderson

@Joel Nah I'm an Australian cat. We're special. We're even immune to catnip

Lucas Kauffman

07:16

@MarkHenderson what happens if we give you vegemite?

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@LucasKauffman Or marmite by mistake

Lucas Kauffman

:p

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@LucasKauffman Not likely these days however; the marmite factory in Papanui has been declared unsafe because of the earthquake. Apparently New Zealand is about to experience a marmite shortage.

t1nt1n

morning,

Lucas Kauffman

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells marmite crisis?

Dan

07:28

Word.

t1nt1n

Globe.

Dan

Serious question, regarding this one:

http://serverfault.com/questions/384831/can-i-prevent-logon-scripts-in-one-gpo-from-executing-before-those-in-the-parent

Like most I've used numerous start up scripts (Though not the way he's describing), I always thought they were executed sequentially. Am I totally wrong?

(I've never coded anything that RELIED on it being sequential, just an assumption)

Okay, I'm not totally mental, in the link he posts it does say:

"Startup scripts run. This is hidden and synchronous by default; each script must complete or time out before the next one starts. The default time-out is 600 seconds. You can use several policy settings to modify this behavior. "

But is that just scripts in a single policy, or does that mean all scripts

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

08:12

From tvnz.co.nz:
"Chris Regan from Los Angeles in the US tweeted: "I pray that US troops don't get pulled into the New Zealand Marmite crisis!"

Journeyman Geek

08:51

lol

only if you could run a car on marmite

Lucas Kauffman

09:30

@JourneymanGeek it's funny because it's true

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

09:40

@LucasKauffman I suppose they could bring in the Australian army bearing Vegemite instead.

Lucas Kauffman

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells like surogate marmite that tastes the same?

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@LucasKauffman It's an Australian product made in much the same way and the subject of religious wars that make Linux<-->BSD look like polite discourse.

If you haven't tried either there's a similar swiss(?) product called Cenovis that's quite common on the continent.

Lucas Kauffman

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells I'll look for that

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

The basic process for making *mite:
1. Take several truckloads of the yeast culture left over from brewing beer
2. Add Sodium Hydroxide (IIRC) to break down the cell walls and release the lovely*mitey goodness within
3. Boil down until it's about the consistency of toothpaste.
4. Enjoy the lovely *mitey goodness.

Lucas Kauffman

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells what does it taste like?

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

09:48

@LucasKauffman Quite a strong taste and fairly salty. Spread thinly on toast.

Lucas Kauffman

mmm I can buy a pot online for 7 bucks

maybe I should do that

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

It tends to vary a bit with the variety of yeast used, certainly enough to attract brand zealotry. NZ marmite tastes a bit different (a bit sweeter) to English marmite, which in turn tastes a bit different to Vegemite (Vegemite is saltier and English marmite is a little bit more bitter).

Lucas Kauffman

how much does a pot cost normally?

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@LucasKauffman Apropos of which, Barack Obama nearly precipitated an international incident by saying he'd tried Vegemite and didn't like in front of the Australian Prime Minister.

Lucas Kauffman

:o

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

09:54

@LucasKauffman A small pot might cost about £1 or so here in the UK. A couple of the supermarket chains here carry Vegemite as well (at around the same sort of price).

Lucas Kauffman

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells omai I need to pay 7 times that amount if I want to get a pot :/

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@LucasKauffman People are auctioning it off on trademe (a local ebay-like auction site) in New Zealand now.

Lucas Kauffman

well when I'm back home I'll order a pot to taste it

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Chances are you can get something similar in local supermarkets at a more sensible price. If you've never tried it before then any of the yeast extract products will be functionally equivalent for the purposes of this evaluation.

Lucas Kauffman

btw is it healthy or does it make you fat?

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

10:04

@LucasKauffman Supposed to be healthy - mainly B vitamins IIRC. You don't eat anywhere near enough of it to get fat, although the bread you spread it on will have whatever nutritional value that it has.

Cenovis

Cenovis is a product based on yeast extract similar to Marmite and Vegemite, rich in vitamin B1. In the form of a dark brown food paste, it is used to flavour soups, sausages, and salads. The most popular way to consume Cenovis is however to spread it on a slice of buttered bread, as stated on the product's packaging. Cenovis is popular in Switzerland, (particularly Romandy). It was developed in Rheinfelden in 1931, on the initiative of a master brewer called Alex Villinger, and was subsequently produced by the company Cenovis SA. In 1999, a trio of entrepreneurs from Geneva, Michel Ya...

This stuff is made using much the same process and is widely available on the continent, although it's almost unheard of in the UK due to the overwhelming brand presence of marmite. Chances are you can get it in the supermarkets in Belgium.

And here's a comparative review:

justhungry.com/2006/11/marmite_vegemite_andcenovis_a.html

Lucas Kauffman

mmm

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Come over to the dark, brown, salty, yeasty side ...

Lucas Kauffman

you need to add butter to it?

well not add it but spread it on butter

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

10:19

@LucasKauffman Normally you would spread it on buttered bread or toast. The flavour is very concentrated so you don't need much of it at all.

Cheese and marmite sandwiches are a perennial school lunch staple in certain parts of the world.

Traditonally made with fairly bland cheddars - not sure it would go all that well with a blue cheese like stilton or gorgonzola.

Lucas Kauffman

now I want to eat it :p

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@LucasKauffman It's an acquired taste if you didn't grow up with it - and it tends to inspire love-or-hate reactions, but try it by all means and see what you think.

Chopper3

11:09

One day I will buy TomTom a very large drink; serverfault.com/a/384830/1435

Dan

@Chopper3 Rumbled

Chopper3

?

Dan

"The new VM has a guest with a Win2008 server operating system with an identical configuration as the original server."

Or not, as the case may be

Chopper3

oh sorry, yes, that's true, I just love how the guy writes, I know why some hate it but it amuses me a great deal

Lucas Kauffman

@Chopper3 He reminds of canadian scott in south park

Chopper3

11:21

:)

Dan

@Chopper3 I find it funny to read sometimes, but I'm always acutely aware that people who try and speak to me like that get told where to go

Though, in all fairness, that particular answer is fine IMHO

Dan

11:44

Oh, goody, an issue with WMI on an old 2003 box. Fun afternoon incoming

Lucas Kauffman

@Dan oh goodie?

Iain

@LucasKauffman <sarcasm> oh goodie </sarcasm>

Lucas Kauffman

@Iain u don't say

Dan

@LucasKauffman So where's the confusion ;)

Lucas Kauffman

@Dan I actually hadn't read that you already wrote oh goody actually

Dan

11:53

@LucasKauffman Hahah, right :D

Lucas Kauffman

@Dan I didn't :( I'm really numb today

Dan

@LucasKauffman hugs

Lucas Kauffman

<3

btw you guys don't have a holiday today?

Dan

@LucasKauffman No, it's on Monday - I guess you mean "May day"?

Lucas Kauffman

@Dan yea

Dan

12:05

0

A: service account - prevent misuse via drive mappings

You're being painfully vague, but they're saying that they'll create a service account for your service to log in as and run under. However, there is no actual concept of "service accounts" in Active Directory or locally*, so in every way this is just a standard user with whatever rights are re...

Taken down - I'd never even heard of them :(

Lucas Kauffman

time for an icecream

jscott

12:37

@Dan How about the AD Recycling Bin? That's new in 2008R2 also.

Dan

@jscott Yeah, seen that

TBH, having read about service accounts I can see why I've never seen it

jscott

I lost a small wager a while back, when a colleague was asking if I used the drink attribute now that we migrated to 2003 schema. All sorts of weird things hidden in Windows stuff.

2

I was in disbelief, and put a $5 on him just BSing me. But nope, he wasn't. :)

MDMarra

'morning

@jscott I <3 AD Recycle Bin

jscott

Yes, it is morning here also.

MDMarra

Although the tools for recovering objects from it are a pain in the dick.

Chris S

12:42

@Dan They're new in R2, and your AD has to be at that function level IIRC.

ewwhite

12:56

Morn...

<-- spent too much of last night tracking down Cisco ASA issues.

Chris S

Ha ha =]

In seriousness, there are days when I need a fifth to get through the ASA not being able to read my mind; and days when I've considered pouring the fifth on the ASA.

ewwhite

Well, I swapped an ASA 5505 for a 5510 at my colo.

new config... but it wouldn't pass traffic...

Chris S

That should be pretty straight forward...

ewwhite

then it started passing my laptop's traffic....

but not any of my VMs...

so I'm thinking ARP issue... or something weird.

I'm diff'ing configs...

then auto-negotiation...

Chris S

Don't even get me started on ASA and ARP issues.... Bad memories.

ewwhite

12:59

I had to have the ISP clear their ARP table... and reboot my main switch... ESX hosts...

Chris S

Maybe it's a dumb question, but why didn't you start with just copying the config over; get it working; then modify?

ewwhite

something in there worked...

DevOps Engineer at StudyBlue

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