The Comms Room

MikeyB

00:29

@wfaulk Your login credentials not be configured properly for the connection. Yarghhhhh!!!

WesleyDavid

00:46

So, I was optimistic about OS X and its UNIXiness.

Then you use Darwin.

And you're left like this:

Joel

I'm doing some serious brain surgery on this ExaGrid device. They bundled a bunch of standard packages from a non-standard source, and yum doesn't think it should update those.

NODEPS TO THE RESCUE

WesleyDavid

@Joel Go getcherself some upboats: serverfault.com/questions/381748/…

Joel

@WesleyDavid Malaysia wants this bullshit by Monday. Their Monday starts on Sunday. Also buuuugh lvm, don't people ever google?

MikeyB

No fucking kidding. A selection of things I've been told over the last few days by tech support:
"Having a bonded interface for metadata traffic actually causes higher latency. Since you only have one ethernet network, that wouldn't be a good idea especially if video capturing/editing is involved. … Unfortunately we don't happen to have any documented figures. Apple recommends having a single unbound dedicated interface for metadata."
"Why are you using zoning on your [FC] switch?"
"If you want load-balanced multipath to work, you need to connect your [two separate FC fabrics] together."

WesleyDavid

@MikeyB Tell it to the guy I'm in a mild disagreement with on Twitter: twitter.com/#!/cheeseplus/status/193497225450627072

Seems like it's boiling down to "Well it's not Windows!"

WesleyDavid

01:08

The first rule of SF chat is:
1) You do not link to SF chat.

MikeyB

@WesleyDavid It's not like it's The Other Place or anything.

BTW, all that ^^^ is at the same customer formerly running all their Mac Pros with bonded interfaces going to a single 8-port switch (each) with a single uplink to their core switch because it doubled performance.

Joel

@MikeyB If you plug a switch into itself, the internets accumulate in there. Just leave it collecting for a few minutes, then hook it into the computer that needs more bandwidth

MikeyB

Awesomeness: starting a 2GB wget, leaving it, coming back to check on it and it's 10s from completion.

WesleyDavid

@Joel It's like pinching a hose so you can squirt your sister who thinks she's far enough away from you while she talks on the phone with her boyfriend.

MikeyB

@Joel I'm serious you know. It really did improve performance. Friggin' OS X couldn't manage to squeeze more than 400Mbps over a 1Gb port.

Joel

01:14

@MikeyB Hooooly crap. I thought you did that at the customer's behest

MikeyB

@Joel No, it was like that when I showed up. First thing I said was "Wait, what? That shouldn't work."

Joel

@MikeyB But it does? And that's the worst part?

MikeyB

@Joel Pretty much.

jscott

Ugh, you pulled me in.

MikeyB

WesleyDavid

01:18

@jscott "Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in."

MikeyB

uproxx.com/webculture/2012/04/…

Wow. Just wow.

WesleyDavid

@MikeyB I saw a guy try to eat that - he puked.

jscott

Mac at home, Proper Shit at work. That's short-and-sweet of it. We all know they don't "do enterprise".

WesleyDavid

@jscott I miss the Xserve

jscott

Disclaimer: We have two XSANs, but only regale them to the three Xserves that need it.

Apple won't be in the NOC for long, and I can't imagine they use any of their own stuff to power the iCloud.

MikeyB

01:21

@jscott Just put in a 15-server xsan for a customer. It's given them a major impetus to get directory services in place.

Journeyman Geek

@jscott: unless they have their own internal server distro

jscott

@JourneymanGeek My condolences.

MikeyB

@jscott They have pulled the only server-class hardware. How do you follow that up?

Journeyman Geek

its not impossible, in theory they could just run mostly standard crap atop a darwin kernel

and just not have the system specific stuff

@jscott: for?

>_>

WesleyDavid

►

Onebox dammit!

jscott

01:22

@JourneymanGeek See chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/4306476#4306476

WesleyDavid

Better.

Journeyman Geek

ahh

in theory ;p

jscott

Oh shit, I'm buzzed, mixing up the @ replies. Crap.

Journeyman Geek

looool

jscott

Fuck this harder than twitting.

Journeyman Geek

01:24

@jscott: i got confused since there was a death in the family but i didn't mention in on SE as far as i knew ;p

headesks

jscott

@MikeyB We have some Apple gear still in racks, Apple doesn't make rack gear any more -- problem solved [as far as I'm concerned].

Journeyman Geek

I'm running vmware player for school stuff, i'm stuck with it till i'm sure i pass that module, and i know the next module dosen't need it. THEN i realised that box is a triple boot, and i can just install it somwhere else ;p

jscott

That problem will just, um, work itself out...

Journeyman Geek

@jscott: hate to sound like trollbait, but what's the advantage of running apple gear for servers?

WesleyDavid

@jscott Doesn't fit in racks? Baker's shelves to the rescue!

jscott

01:26

@JourneymanGeek None to me.

MikeyB

@WesleyDavid Dear god! Are those… oh… urp

jscott

For all: I'm not advocating Apple anything in the NOC!

Journeyman Geek

@jscott: ahh, but someone must have thought so >_>

jscott

@WesleyDavid WHY U DO THIS

WesleyDavid

@jscott NOC on wood.

jscott

01:28

@JourneymanGeek Someone thought it... I had to support it.

WesleyDavid

But they're so purdy!

Journeyman Geek

ahh

WesleyDavid

Journeyman Geek

cause i figured that unless you run a asp/mssql/windows server stack, its mostly similar, standard software

Adrian

W.T.F.

ewwhite

01:28

ick.

Journeyman Geek

lol

thats worse than that cluster of standard desktops i once saw

jscott

@WesleyDavid Agreed. Bought my girl a MBP to replace her aging iMac, she couldn't be happier... ..and now I want one.

WesleyDavid

Does everyone see the blue, circular lights in the upper right corner? Know what those are?

Western Digital MyBooks!!

</campfire_horror_story>

@jscott I'll prolly get an Air in a year or two

Journeyman Geek

lol

jscott

@WesleyDavid MAINTENANCE NIGHTMARE ENGAGED

Journeyman Geek

01:30

@WesleyDavid: dude. what the hell IS that thing

Adrian

@JourneymanGeek I used a Dell GX260 as a VPN concentrator once. Was not a pleasant 3 months.

Journeyman Geek

and are those routers inside plastic storage boxen with slots cut out?

and...

Adrian

Looks like shelves full of Macs to me.

Journeyman Geek

@Adrian: occational imprvisation is alright

this is just...

growls

I HATE sff boxes of that nature

Adrian

I think I officially hate Mozilla more than I hate Microsoft now.

WesleyDavid

01:33

Took ya' long enough. At least Microsoft supports their products.

Journeyman Geek

lol

@WesleyDavid: On the other hand, its their fault people still use IE6 ;p

Adrian

@WesleyDavid I was fine until their rapid release cycle started breaking my add-ons.

WesleyDavid

@JourneymanGeek I think it's developers' faults that people still use IE6. It's always developers' faults. Text messages at 2AM on Saturday? Developers. Business isn't profitable? Developers. Global Warming? Developers. Fall of Rome? Developers.

Journeyman Geek

Naw

jscott

@Adrian I know that feel. Chrome now. Not much better.

Journeyman Geek

01:35

I think the big issue was MS was convinced they had crushed all other browsers

WesleyDavid

Lynx, posers.

Journeyman Geek

then had their asses kicked

pfft. real men use telnet

jscott

@JourneymanGeek Actually, they only wanted to kill Navigator. That's all.

Journeyman Geek

and.. they ended up buying it ;p

in effect

Adrian

I still think you give MS way too much credit for being diabolical.

Journeyman Geek

01:36

shit

Adrian

They're a truly disfunctional group of people.

Journeyman Geek

my linux install has gone nuts

Adrian

it amazes me that they ever get anything at all released, let alone on time.

Journeyman Geek

lol

jscott

@Adrian They were. Now they must know they have a lot of ground to make up for the future.

Journeyman Geek

01:37

oh ya, that bug...

Adrian

@jscott No. Seriously. I drink and party with quite a few of them.

They're my friends, but they're also quite fscked in the head.

jscott

@Adrian Do you have friends which aren't fscked in the head? I don't... and I'm not too certain of myself. :)

Miles Erickson

Why do people hire "managed service" companies that hire contractors at $20/hour and bill them out at $150? seattle.craigslist.org/see/sad/2968775474.html

jscott

@MilesErickson triple-double-out-sourced to odesk.com?

Miles Erickson

@Adrian Only they're actually chkdsk'ed in the head.

jscott

01:39

@MilesErickson ZING!

Oh! taquitos are done!

Adrian

@MilesErickson Or at least in serious need of one. =D

Miles Erickson

@Adrian Remember this one?

Journeyman Geek

02:03

hmm

I need to pick a distro to teach myself RH style distros >_>

Joel

@JourneymanGeek CentOS. Also run Fedora as a desktop. No better way to learn

ewwhite

CentOS...

Coming from Ubuntu/Debian?

Journeyman Geek

@Joel: cli only probably

@ewwhite: ya

ewwhite

Pull down a copy of CentOS 6... maybe grab a RedHat RHCA study guide

RHCE, that is

Journeyman Geek

02:18

any issues with starting with minimal?

(since thats how i go with my ubuntu servers anyway)

ewwhite

Yes. You should run with a decent toolset, since that's what you'll see in industry.

My usual scripted/unattended installations run the following package set.

%packages

@ base
@ core
@ cifs-file-server
@ compat-libraries
@ console-internet
@ development
@ mail-server
@ nfs-file-server
@ network-server
@ network-file-system-client
@ network-tools
@ print-server
@ system-management
@ system-admin-tools
@ tex
@ web-server
@ x11

yum-fastestmirror
rpm-devel
e2fsprogs
grub
kernel-devel
net-snmp-utils
screen
wget

Journeyman Geek

oh, i mean initially, so i can reduce initial download time and just install what i need ;p

ewwhite

so it's more than minimal...

You can do a net-installation, but it will be helpful to pull down more than you think you need

Journeyman Geek

ya

ewwhite

remember that a lot of companies have standardized on RHEL/CentOS... the default installs I see in the field are usually bloated.

Journeyman Geek

02:22

well, for now the main thing is the basics

ewwhite

but doing a minimal installation, you'll be missing some of the tools you'll see in guides/manuals

Journeyman Geek

stuff as simple as package management seem alien ;p

ewwhite

yeah, you'll still want more tools.

there's a "minimal" install and a "server install" and a few other options

Journeyman Geek

ahh

does it have something like 'tasksel' to select those?

ewwhite

Yes.

Journeyman Geek

02:24

(well, thats what its called in the debianverse anyway)

ewwhite

but you'll at least want to pull the full DVD #1 download

Journeyman Geek

hmm

ewwhite

that's all most people need

Journeyman Geek

oh well, i have the space ;p

and i'll look at grabbing a RHCE study guide off somewhere

thanks

ewwhite

No prob.

Adrian

02:48

@MilesErickson No, I'd never seen that one. But's so true that it's hilarious.

WesleyDavid

@MilesErickson That's a rather generous estimation of Oracle's engineering department.

Adrian

03:17

I wonder how Oracle resolves customer problems these days. When I supported apps that interfaced with Oracle, they always blamed everything on Sun.

We've decided to give m86 a try. For our very limited needs, it looks like a really good solution.

I get to rig up the routing next week.

WesleyDavid

@Adrian m86 is neat-o

Adrian

It did take us about 15 minutes of listening to sales nattering to get through to them that we don't need all the client-level stuff though. Our machines are locked down with Steadystate already.

WesleyDavid

"I'm very familiar with Linux... but I have very little experience with Fedora and SELinux (whatever that is)."

wat.

Adrian

heh. looking at the one too, eh?

Joel

@WesleyDavid link

WesleyDavid

03:27

0

Q: Fedora 16: "Permission denied: file permissions deny server access"

I'm working with a fresh Fedora 16 install and I'm trying to get Apache up and running. I'm very familiar with Linux and somewhat with CentOS, but I have very little experience with Fedora and SELinux (whatever that is). At first, after installing Apache, I couldn't even see the example webpage....

Adrian

He probably needs to chcon his files after moving them in there.

I seriously wish people would do even some basic research before trying to set up a web server.

Joel

Yeah, reading it made me unhappy

Adrian

Of course, if he accepts it, I'm going to jump up past 1,111 rep.

WesleyDavid

@Adrian Downvotes ahoy!

Adrian

lol

the rep whoring giveth, and the rep whoring taketh away.

WesleyDavid

03:32

I'd upvote, but I'm out already.

Joel

-2

Q: Best mature flatfile server-side (preferably PHP) webapps?

Let's compile a list of the most polished, ready-to-use, highest-caliber, open source PHP web apps that don't use a database! Preferably portable too, meaning you just extract the tarball to your webroot or elsewhere, then visit some simple config wizard page through the HTTPD in you web browser...

php webserver cgi sqlite

Adrian

@WesleyDavid Doh. Thought i was all out. Keep forgetting that DST changes when SE rolls the day.

Joel

This is darling, another bushy-tailed noob summarily shut down

WesleyDavid

No Tom, don't fight. You only make it hurt worse when you fight.

Adrian

yay. I have 15 in binary. =D

easily amused, I know.

wow, I'm actually #104 in the year rank too.

right behind Matt Simmons, whose shoes I'm not worthy to polish.

WesleyDavid

03:52

@Adrian You're ahead of Matt

You're #100, matt is #113.
Oh, wait... if you're looking here aren't you: http://stackexchange.com/leagues/2/year/serverfault
Those numbers take a while to catch up. On the live standings over here: http://serverfault.com/users?page=3&tab=reputation&filter=year
...you're lookin' even better.

Adrian

04:19

nice. =)

Now I don't feel quite so stupid for having left my iPhone charger at the office.

WesleyDavid

I get the feeling that Ubuntu Server is the Windows Server of the Linux world.

Too easy to stand a box up for its own good.

Adrian

I dunno. It's not that much easier than RHEL. And doesn't even have RHEL's TUI tools.

Honestly, I'd say it's almost harder to set up a non-GUI Ubuntu box than a RHEL box.

Of course, Ubuntu leaves their boxes wide freaking open and RHEL locks them down.

WesleyDavid

I suppose it's just the brand recognition then. I didn't find it any harder or easier to set up a base Ubuntu server than CentOS

I see so many developers with Ubuntu test boxes that have no clue

Adrian

It took us quite awhile to figure out what we needed to rip out of Ubuntu 9.10 to make it work well as a server.

The newer releases are totally different of course.

laterz. Gotta zoom back to the office and get my phone charger before the battery runs out.

WesleyDavid

zoooom

Joel

04:33

Does anyone have a preference for document management?

WesleyDavid

@Joel I don't really use an document management - what are your needs?

Like, check-in and check-out stuff?

Proof of having read something?

Trying to stay within some kind of ISO certification?

Joel

@WesleyDavid Personal use

I want to scan everything - vehicle registration, parking tickets, loan forms - and have them be searchable and taggable

inb4 filesystem

WesleyDavid

What the ever loving hell. Ubuntu doesn't have the jobs command?

O_O

0

A: How to stop Solr service from command line

You started the process and put it in the background. List background processes with the jobs command. To bring background processes to the foreground, use fg [job number]. From there, you can exit them as normal.

Wait, is it that horked up abomination otherwise known as dash

ew

jobs is a bash built in

but not sure about dash

Joel

►

WesleyDavid

@Joel What just crossed the threshold of mine eyes. -.-

Joel

04:43

@WesleyDavid If you enjoyed that then you'll definitely enjoy this

►

WesleyDavid

HUNGHH

@Joel

Can you do me a favor?

It's not much.

I need you to get a running start

and then dragon kick me in the balls.

Adrian

05:08

Heh. So glad I've stayed away from the RPGs

Joel

Giving my sister my old Droid 2. Feels good being the older sibling with the cool gadgets

Adrian

Sheesh. I still have my Droid 1. Use it as an alarm clock nowadays.

I'm thinking this should be flagged as not an answer?

0

A: SMB claimed to be "slow"

Intersting how this entire converation never answered any fundamental questions like what should I be able to see in Bytes/Second throughput. Or I've taken a trace and found that I'm only getting this. From there others could compare, or the op could compare FTP rates for example to SMB. That ...

WesleyDavid

05:35

hnnnnnggg

"I go all java -jar start.jar & and now I can't control-c to end the process"

just use jobs to check what's running

"Nothing is thereeeeeee!!!"

"I'm closing the terminal and opening a new one..."

facepalm

Adrian

Yeah. Java sucks like that. It's as snotty about interrupt calls as Python.

WesleyDavid

Ubuntu users. I tell you.

Adrian

What's your take on that answer linked above? It kinda mention wireshark in there, but it's most a rant.

WesleyDavid

I was referring to this: http://serverfault.com/q/381763/9770
What a parade of derp.

Checking your answer...

Adrian

And I know a rant when I see one. I'm a specialist....

WesleyDavid

05:40

@Adrian Ever answer had explicit or implicit instructions to do the very type of metrics examining that Ranter Juan was spouting off about.

He just had a bad day.

I'd downvote, but... out of votes.

In fact, I'll tell him that...

Adrian

Yeah, dropped a down on it already. It certainly warranted that.

WesleyDavid

@Adrian There. Counter-rant applied.

Adrian

Considering that he has 2 .SE accounts with 1 rep each, I figured it might be worth dropped the boom on that one.

WesleyDavid

Just a drive-by, I guess.

Adrian

I decided to balance out the karma and upvoted everything else that had even a few moments of forethought in it.

Joel

05:48

Installed CentOS on my fileserver. Why does it feel so stupid fast compared to the ubantos

WesleyDavid

Don't people, when they make a question, ever stop to say "Oh hey, my post doesn't look very good. The ASCII network map is skewed, none of my commands look right and everything is crammed onto one big line."

@Joel bECAUSE mARK sHUTTLEWORTH

Journeyman Geek

lol

Joel

@WesleyDavid I'm sure you can fix the inverted caps. I'm asking you not to.

Journeyman Geek

Actually...

i'm running on a VM... and it does seem pretty snappy

WesleyDavid

@Joel "Fix"?

Joel

05:54

"We have one account that's being used by 100+ computers and every now and then it gets locked."

Bitches don't know bout my PCI-DSS

WesleyDavid

@Joel Hopefully since it's a render farm, it's nowhere near the CDN.

I so want to drop a note to them "Hey, my contact info is in my profile if you need a consultant."

Actually, I want to do that for 85% of the questions that I weigh in on.

Adrian

Mmmm. Scrambled eggs with a dash of sage and tarragon, a slice of cheddar, and some Tapatio paired up with a slice of garlic toast.

Oh yeah, the toast was on sweet rye too.

Gonna need to eat a pound of dried apricots to make up for that much sodium though.

WesleyDavid

Nice try... JY00 F@!L NUBL3T!!!!11! serverfault.com/a/374715/9770

Oh wait, only 10K+ can see that.

=/

Adrian

06:13

That's a term I've never seen before. A 'TCP Chimney'.

WesleyDavid

@Adrian whowherewhat?

Joel

@Adrian It's an RFC, I believe

Adrian

0

A: Windows Server 2008 push and pull speeds different

Try adjusting the TCP chimney and receive window scaling settings on both the 2008 and Windows 7 box. It can cause strange behaviour in some situations. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/947239 http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg162682%28v=ws.10%29.aspx I'd start with the receive windo...

WesleyDavid

@Adrian Clearly you don't read my blog: thenubbyadmin.com/2012/04/16/… :'(

Adrian

I've been scanning past Windows-specific stuff for years. I may have read it and just slid over that section.

WesleyDavid

06:17

Oh FFS people enough with the accepted answers with no upvotes. >_<

MikeyB

@Joel Oh god, kill it with napalm.

WesleyDavid

@MikeyB And then roll it in salt.

Joel

@MikeyB I thought his enthusiasm was charming, if misguided

Also I refuse to disable SELinux on my fileserver. Not this time. I'm hashing it out

WesleyDavid

@Joel grsecurity melon farmer.

Joel

@WesleyDavid Awesome, doin' it

WesleyDavid

06:24

@Joel It's for nubs in a sense. SELinux is hardcore - and sometimes I just don't want hardcore. =|

Someday, I'm going to spend an entire season, probably fall, reading everything I can about SELinux and taking some classes.

Then I'll be on my way to being badass.

Until then...

Joel

@WesleyDavid socallinuxexpo.org/scale10x/presentations/…

This is a decent primer

WesleyDavid

MikeyB

@WesleyDavid I learned that SELinux has two modes. Holy shit oh-my-god the server doesn't even boot with a console because it doesn't trust it is one mode. The other one is what everyone else uses and is the default. And it's not too bad at all to manage once you get a primer.

Adrian

SELinux is simply not very forgiving of stupidity.

WesleyDavid

Seems like if a person knows SELinux awesome, they'll be able to name their price for consulting.

Adrian

06:29

My co-workers still can't wrap their heads around the fact that they can't randomly link stuff into /var/www/html and have everything be hunky-dory.

g'nite all.

WesleyDavid

Nighty.

Miles Erickson

@adrian It wouldn't surprise me anymore if a web developer posted a question asking why sudo ln -s /etc/shadow /var/www/html/shadow doesn't put shadows behind pictures like so-and-so says it will.

@WesleyDavid Wasn't long ago I visited a company that had implemented the Windows equivalent of that on a file server full of users' home directories...

WesleyDavid

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070816225954AAhKGMR

^^^

We need to get Yahoo Answers to onebox.

@Reb Be a doll and work on that for me.

Miles Erickson

@WesleyDavid Sitting around. Mmhm.

WesleyDavid

06:48

Oh well that comment clears the whole situation up: serverfault.com/a/381770/9770

Miles Erickson

@WesleyDavid One of these days, we'll post someone at the door.

"Did you just say 'the IT guy' in the third person? OUT."

WesleyDavid

Terry Tate: Office Linebacker

Terry Tate: Office Linebacker was a series of short comedy television commercials created by Rawson Marshall Thurber, for Reebok, based on a short film pilot he created in 2000; Tate was first shown at Super Bowl XXXVII in 2003. The short films feature Lester Speight as "Terrible" Terry Tate, an American football linebacker who "gives out the pain" to those in the office who are not obeying office policies. Originally, Reebok produced 6 episodes between August to December 2002 with another episode Terry Tate, Office Linebacker: Sensitivity Training being made on February 1, 2004. Even Re...

Miles Erickson

Yeah, he's the one.

WesleyDavid

I'd say what we need is someone in the range of 6'5, 260 and a 4.4 40.

And an intense desire for pain. Others' pain.

MikeyB

07:04

"Both require a lot of sitting around on the computer and waiting for something to be installed/repaired."
Yeah, we just sit around all day waiting for things to happen.

Miles Erickson

Maybe that's what that MSP wanted to pay someone $15-25/hr to do.

Ward

How long has this been happening:

I only ever notice it at night.

WesleyDavid

I admit to everyone that I've not been the best company this evening.

I'm feeling like a prick, I'm acting like a prick.

4

A: How can I set up a wired printer on different operating systems without a print server?

Any PC can become a "print server." The summarization of the process is thus: Physically connect the printer to a PC Install the drivers for the printer. Share the printer out using the OS's printer sharing features. Connect to the printer from other OSs. Print! In your case, you could probab...

^ The latest comment on this old post of mine that got migrated to SU was so tempered and censored...

I think I need to go to bed.

@Ward Weeks. I use it to my advantage to jump on questions as soon as their posted while I'm doing worky things. I look over at the status of the new questions page to see if anything has been added.

WesleyDavid

07:34

@JourneymanGeek Around?

Journeyman Geek

yup

WesleyDavid

@JourneymanGeek On SUperUser, can you see the total amount of questions that have been asked?

I can't, but I can on ServerFault.

I suspect because I'm not high enough rep or something?

Journeyman Geek

superuser.com/questions

shouldn't be

i can see the SF one with 1K rep

WesleyDavid

@JourneymanGeek rageface

It wasn't there a minute ago!

I swear!

No occifer, I geel freat!

Journeyman Geek

Obviously its a plot by SU to make you insane...

i mean insaner.

WesleyDavid

07:41

( •_•)
I don't suffer from insanity.
( •_•)>⌐■-■
I love every minute of it.
(⌐■_■)

Journeyman Geek

ugh

0

Q: slow laptop battery charge rate

My laptop battery charge rate is very slow. It charges between 50% - 100% in almost 4, 5 hours. Is it battery or charger problem? I have changed my laptop battery 4 months ago but the charger is 4 years old.

laptop battery

how much rep before we get magic psycic powers? ;p

Adrian

15:02

@WesleyDavid I think I hear that one more than I hear "I swear I tried that already"

Shane Madden

20:18

@WesleyDavid Client-certificate dude is a little out there

WesleyDavid

@ShaneMadden Yeah, I think he wants certificates to be used as authentication rather than passwords?

So, like keypair SSH auth, except for a website?

Shane Madden

Yup.. I'm not following how he thinks a cert moves into the trusted list if it's not validated. He said "some sites seem to allow me to authenticate with just about any client certificate" -- like he thinks they aren't validating at all.

OpenID is pretty far from "oh yeah just throw any cert my way"

And he posts a new question?

0

Q: How can I make apache request a client SSL certificate without needing to verify it against a known CA?

I'm using apache2 (2.2.3) to serve a site where I'd like to have clients authenticate with certificates. Since I only need to verify that a user presenting a particular certificate is the same user who has presented that certificate in the past, the CA signing the certificate is irrelevant. It ...

apache2 ssl ssl-certificate certificate

WesleyDavid

@ShaneMadden I don't see why he thinks that the certs in his scenario would need to be trusted in the first place. It's not encryption we're interested in, it's authentication. In that scenario, getting verisign or whoever into the picture is moot.

I get a new PC, I generate a keypair. He thinks Verisign is going to vouch for me? "Oh yeah, that dude's legit."

The onus on trusting the owner of a private key is totally on him.

Shane Madden

@WesleyDavid You do seem pretty legit. I'd trust you if I were Verisign.

Maybe email them and ask if they'll sign a subordinate CA for you.

WesleyDavid

@ShaneMadden Awesome, here's the cosign papers for my new car. Just initialize here, here and here.

Lucas Kauffman

20:24

Just a quickie: If you shorten John his car, is it : Johns car or John's car?

I'd go with the second but I'm not sure

Shane Madden

John's

Possessive - always gets an apostrophe, except for "its"

Lucas Kauffman

thx ^^

WesleyDavid

@LucasKauffman The more you look into English, the more English looks into you.

And frowns disapprovingly.

Lucas Kauffman

what did I do to English :(?

tell me kitty :(

WesleyDavid

@LucasKauffman Oh, don't worry. English doesn't like anyone. Hence the phrase "put a little English on the ball" means to curve, or twist it.

We should all go back to speaking Latin.

Or Greek. I'd go for Classical Era Greek.

Lucas Kauffman

20:36

@WesleyDavid I had two years of Latin, it's been 8 years and I still know most of the words :/

@WesleyDavid nah we would have to change keyboards, cba

WesleyDavid

@LucasKauffman ηττημένος

Wait... person says "I'm rate limiting with iptables and it works fine! How do I redirect to another IP?"
I show them how to redirect. Then they say:
"I'm not asking that, I'm asking how to rate limit the redirection."
But you just... it was... huh?

I give up. The internet is too hard.

2

Lucas Kauffman

@WesleyDavid ah yes, I had one that asked how dotdeb works. I assumed he was referring to .deb files. But he was referring to some website

WesleyDavid

I've had enough. I'm not even going to respond - maybe I'm missing something. Time to wander away from the computer, I think.

Adrian