The Comms Room

voretaq7

19:00

@MikeyB no.

"Read the @&*%^&*^#&^$%#(&*@^%#@$&*#@^&( SPECS from the @&*&*(#&%(*#^$*&@%^&^&*@ VENDOR!" is the only possible answer :-/

MikeyB

@voretaq7 I was thinking along the lines of "what do all these scary words mean?"

voretaq7

►

ewwhite

1

Q: Move VMWare ESXi VM to new datastore - preserve thin-provisioning

I'm looking for a good solution to a VMWare ESXi environment (with no vCenter). What's the best way to move a VM from one datastore to another on a single ESXi host, while maintaining the VMDK thin-provisioning? This is a standalone server that's been expanded with another drive array/datastor...

This guy has no clue ;)

Joel

@ewwhite Checkit

Chris S

@voretaq7 Not as good as Kitty Doesn't Like

Kyle Smith

19:12

daskeyboard.com - check out the 'Kick Ass' link in the top right.

voretaq7

@ChrisS not really

►

^^ WhiteBoy Rap?

jscott

@KyleSmith Random quotes is a nice target. Must have earn ~1000 just shooting them.

Chris S

@voretaq7 That's pretty good; same as Kitty Doesn't Like in that it's a fun song; but in the greater scheme of music it pretty much blows. =]

voretaq7

@ChrisS most music made this century blows :-/

Joel

@voretaq7 Of said music, what do you like

voretaq7

19:22

oh and hey on the topic of crappy questions:

Blog - Stack Exchange: Respect the community – your own, and others’

Shog9 on March 22, 2012

In “Why Can’t You Have Just One Site?” Jeff wrote about the rationale for creating three sites instead of one, and the process for determining where a question belongs:

Is it really so hard to figure out which community you belong to, and thus, where your question belongs? Ask yourself this:

what is your job title?

which community do you consider yourself a part of?

what are you trying to accomplish?

You can use the same mountain to go downhill really fast on snow — but it’s plainly evident to the participant which culture they consider themselves a part of, “skiers” or “snowboarders”. …

2

@Joel the new green day stuff isn't bad

and I have a soft spot for reggae

Holocryptic

@WesleyDavid Yeah, it was officially announced a few weeks ago. My friends who had options in the company got sweet deals. I'm a bit jealous. But the work environment is one I'm still glad I'm not in.

voretaq7

rap that doesn't include the words "ho", "bitch", "nigga", or the phrase "bust a cap" can be tolerable sometimes

Joel

@voretaq7 You mean hip-hop

MDMarra

@voretaq7 blahblahblah ad revenue

voretaq7

@Joel no, hip-hop is a different category, and I usually like it (if I'm drunk)

Joel

19:25

@voretaq7 Recently I had a friend who is into electronic music launch on a tirade

voretaq7

@Joel over what?

Joel

I replied off the cuff "I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as techno is, in fact, electronic dance music, or as I've recently taken to calling it, EDM"

@voretaq7 The semantics of what to call a given song

Peter Grace

@MDMarra I take great offense to that. Josh is trying to help with that post, and I wish I could star it twice.

voretaq7

i don't have that conversation with people

Joel

@voretaq7 I try not to talk to people in general

voretaq7

19:28

@Joel that's often the best way :)

@PeterGrace what post are we looking at now? Does it involve kitties?

Peter Grace

@voretaq7 Just commenting on MDMarra's terse snark about Shog9's blog post that you posted

MDMarra

@PeterGrace I'm very against the fracturing of communities when the new site was entirely on-topic on the old site

i.e. security.se

or ask ubuntu & SU

Peter Grace

Which is why the Zend site got killed in area51 much to their chagrin

Zend was clearly still on topic at stackoverflow

MDMarra

There's no reason for 84 sites. Things like math, diy, english, cooking, lit, etc are all awesome. Thinks like security, ubuntu, etc are just completely unnecessary

voretaq7

@PeterGrace Unix & Linux is clearly on topic here. Unless we intend to spawn Windows.stackexchange.com

MDMarra

19:31

@voretaq7 Either here or SU depending on the content

Peter Grace

Trust me, what you're saying echoes a lot of arguments we have internally.

voretaq7

Ubuntu i'm meh on, security and DBA I think are perfectly fine to stand on their own though I wish we had more security related stuff here

Peter Grace

especially since we have SO, CS, CSTheory, and Programmers.

Lucas Kauffman

@voretaq7 security.SE ?

Joel

All community issues can be solved with this image: 28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrc7pucKgH1qmutyeo1_500.jpg

MDMarra

19:32

Someone asked something here a while ago that was OT. I said it belonged on SU. It got migrated and someone on SU said "we don't have the experts here to answer this." Perhaps they would have if their users weren't being siphoned off to apple, sharepoint, ubuntu, u&l, wordpress, etc

voretaq7

of course I could just be being a bitch because I don't have time/inclination to monitor more than 1-2 sites, and a lot of the interesting stuff has been sucked away into other sites like U&L, Security, DBA, etc...

MDMarra

@voretaq7 Another valid point. Spreading all of the useful data out over many sites makes it a lot harder to keep track of and keep up with. It's especially frustrating when that same topic is entirely on-topic elsewhere and there isn't a need for another site to monitor.

Joel

@voretaq7 That leave us with web hosting, elementary VMware questions and the occasional good one

Peter Grace

Heh, I can't even get my U&L question answered

Iain

How did smugmug get to beta given the general paucity of everythingand pretty much fails every test ?

@PeterGrace clicky linky ?

voretaq7

19:34

I'm sure they do. For my part I anticipate that the Stack Exchange network will have an AT&T trajectory.

Stackoverflow -> {StackOverflow, SuperUser, ServerFault} -> {Trilogy, billions of other sites} -> {StackOverflow, SuperUser, ServerFault}

Peter Grace

@Iain hehe, one sec.

voretaq7

@PeterGrace linky?

Peter Grace

4

Q: "ss" command in iproute package; why query slab table for timewait sockets?

Forgive me if this isn't the best forum for this question, but it seems more relevant to the kernel than to the programming itself. I'm writing a script that queries the system for open ports so that we can graph and monitor the statistics. For this, I'm using the "ss" command from the iproute ...

networking proc socket

WesleyDavid

WANT

Scott Pack

@MDMarra Which trilogy site is security.se entirely on-topic for?

WesleyDavid

19:35

restorationhardware.com/catalog/product/…

voretaq7

at some point some of the sub sites should probably be folded back into a member of the trilogy. I see the need for Ubuntu, DBA, etc. but it really does seem too fragmentary. Rather than a pool of knowledge we have little thimbles everywhere

Peter Grace

@Iain regarding smugmug, the owner of smugmug rallied his users to get the required support.

Joel

@voretaq7 Don't you enjoy a couple dozen thimbles of tea/coffee in the morning?

Peter Grace

@Iain it was the smugmug ceo/owner/whatever who wanted the SE site.

Iain

@PeterGrace area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/25069/smugmug better sites have failed

voretaq7

19:36

@PeterGrace I have no idea... but none of my systems have this "ss" utility :-)

Peter Grace

@Iain is your question "Why haven't we killed it yet?" Because that question is a big, deep, evil question that we're going to be devoting a lot of time to next month at the company all-hands summit

There's a lot of back-and-forth about what metrics constitute a "This site has to die" decision

voretaq7

@Joel yes, but I usually pour them all into one bucket and drink from that.

Peter Grace

lots of internal disagreement, etc.

Joel

@voretaq7 So write a se-scrounging script that bucketifies your thimbles

voretaq7

@PeterGrace The metrics can't be one-size-fits-all

Iain

19:38

I asked my question above - when it came out of A51 it really didn't meet the stated requirements

Peter Grace

@voretaq7 they have to be.

voretaq7

@Joel what the hell do I look like? A guy who's not lazy?!?

Iain

and in reality it's just another webapp for which there is a se site

Peter Grace

@voretaq7 because there's a tremendous amount of internal disagreement from anyone you ask about whether a site should live or die.

voretaq7

@PeterGrace I agree in theory - doesn't work in practice. Look at sites like ELU versus AskUbuntu

Peter Grace

19:40

@voretaq7 the problem is getting consensus in some cases, and that causes sites to stagnate indefinitely.

voretaq7

AskUbuntu may not make the percentage numbers ELU will. ELU will never make the volume numbers AskUbuntu does

Lucas Kauffman

ELU?

voretaq7

cool, they made the oneboxing suck less?

Joel

@voretaq7 I think the reason SO/SF works (and AskUbuntu doesn't work) is expertise

Peter Grace

yep.

voretaq7

19:41

Peter Grace

aww, he wins

voretaq7

nice...

Joel

AskUbuntu is lack of expertise almost by definition, and SE is powered by expertise at its core.

MDMarra

@ScottPack originally security questions were OT here

voretaq7

@Joel askubuntu works

MDMarra

19:41

OT = on topic in this sense :)

Peter Grace

awww, sexuality never got a graphic ;)

Iain

@MDMarra they still are

voretaq7

:3922674 Memo to developers: Sites that died in beta should have a tombstone.

& sexuality deserves the N-way intercourse logo

Peter Grace

hahaha

human centipede?

MDMarra

@Iain Right, I was referring to @ScottPack's question about where security questions belonged before A51

voretaq7

19:43

@PeterGrace no, hang on I'll draw it

Peter Grace

hahaha, it's the next play in "Draw Something!"

Scott Pack

@MDMarra Some of the content, sure. In the days of the Trilogy about 50-70% of the field would be represented on a SE site, split between SO and SF. The other 30-50% is non-IT and would have been off-topic entirely.

MDMarra

@voretaq7 Like Oregon Trail

@ScottPack What would be off topic?

TylerShads

EAT MY BETA, BITCHES

Lucas Kauffman

@MDMarra What spice would be ideal in this soup?

ewwhite

19:44

Bicycles is pretty bad.

Scott Pack

@MDMarra Sensitive data handling procedures regarding file cabinets in HR?

TylerShads

@voretaq7 In that case, sex would be dead, according to SE =[

voretaq7

@TylerShads you'll die in beta, just wait :)

TylerShads

@voretaq7 tear

MDMarra

@ScottPack Something like that isn't considered TL there?

voretaq7

19:45

Peter Grace

@voretaq7 I haven't seen that before.

Scott Pack

@MDMarra Unlikely. Information Security is broader than IT.

Iain

@ewwhite I cycle a lot but I don't have (m)any questions about it

voretaq7

(there's a version with 8 people playing too, but 4 was enough to get my team to shout "ORGY" during a Pictionary tournament.)

MDMarra

@ScottPack In that case, I was mistaken. s/security/dba

or s/security/sharepoint

voretaq7

19:47

@PeterGrace It's a variation on the traditional intercourse/sex/unity/whatever symbol (man/woman interlocking)

Aaron Copley

Was it unethical of me to give the phone scammer the FTC's address instead of my own (to send my prize?)

Scott Pack

@MDMarra For full disclosure, that question hasn't been asked, but it's certainly on-topic in the field. We recently had a meta discussion about how the site is misnamed as IT Security and that, really, the T should be dropped. We missed the branding bus, though :)

MDMarra

@ScottPack Right. Just by looking at the same, it seems like it should be a subset of SF. After that example though, I see what you mean

Scott Pack

@MDMarra Sure, I definitely agree there's been excessive fragmentation. That's just the only one I can actually speak (semi?) intelligently on.

MDMarra

Things like Ubuntu should fall squarely under SU

WesleyDavid

19:49

@ScottPack Not to mention, it's not uncommon for the IT security questions that are asked here to get appallingly mediocre answers, since we're generalists. I'd never ask a security question on SF. sec.se is way better - unless we convince the members of sec.se to hang out here and merely cruise the security tags. However, specialization attracts better talent, so sec.se should really stay.

voretaq7

@MDMarra then so should apple

MDMarra

@WesleyDavid That said, if it didn't exist and security was well vetted, who's to say those experts wouldn't be participating here?

@voretaq7 100% agree

voretaq7

I think Apple and Ubuntu are large enough to have their own communities

they're very much specialist sub-sets of IT

Scott Pack

@WesleyDavid Jeff and I hang out here, but I've been finding less and less time to actually watch the question site. Volume is too high and my time is too low lately.

WesleyDavid

@MDMarra Specialized communities tend to attract specialists. Just tossing a tag at people isn't going to attract the highly skilled folk.

Elsewise you have Experts-Exchange.

And WebHostingTalk

And DaniWeb

voretaq7

19:51

and that comes from someone with lots of experience with both of them.
Questions on AskUbuntu have helped me in the past. I know we would have shot them in the head if they were asked here, and I doubt SU has the skill to answer them.

@WesleyDavid I've mentioned in the past that I went to college with The Dani, right?

MDMarra

@voretaq7 The general feeling that I get is that SU has a mediocre level of expertise, as do both of those sub-sites. Apple may be the best of the bunch. Why have three mediocre communities when you could be putting that effort into attracting the appropriate people to a larger, better community?

WesleyDavid

@voretaq7 Yes you have. I'll say a prayer for you

MDMarra

@voretaq7 That's my point exactly. Why not spend all that time and effort raising the bar of SU expertise instead of just making a sub site

Though, it's a bit late for that now

Like 81 sites late.

Iain

@WesleyDavid they do have the facebook microsite on SO but I'm not sure how well it's working

jscott

@WesleyDavid wtf is a DaniWeb?

Lucas Kauffman

19:53

@voretaq7 what dani?

jscott

Augh! The Purple!

voretaq7

@LucasKauffman daniweb.com/home/about

WesleyDavid

@MDMarra Back to a rule of community building: Generalizing the population lowers the standards. To a degree, speciating topics attracts specialists. Ubuntu is such a weird permutation that it's a sore spot. Is it better on SU? Is it better on U&L? Personally, I think it would be better on U&L with an Ubuntu tag because it's not quite specialist enough to be far from U&L material, but it's just specialist enough to make SU denizens flail with "WTFBBQ MAKE YOUR PRIVATE KEY 400!!!"

jscott

WAT?

"Publications Carrying the TomTom Story"

TomTom?

DaniWeb

DaniWeb IT Discussion Community is an on-line IT discussion community. As of October 2010, over 800,000 people have become members (20% of the members have contributed over a million posts). However, many believe that DaniWeb boasts inaccurate member counts, due to a policy that they never delete or deactivate accounts, and therefore a member who registered years ago but hasn't returned to the site since, will still be counted as a community member. The website is especially well known among the vBulletin community for its unique method of building an entire site, including proprietary cont...

voretaq7

@LucasKauffman and daniweb.com/members/cscgal/1

jscott

19:55

Is that's where the name comes from!?

Lucas Kauffman

@voretaq7 pretty girl

voretaq7

@LucasKauffman low standards?

MDMarra

@WesleyDavid Yeah, but I don't think that U&L should exist either

WesleyDavid

@MDMarra Ah, gotcha.

MDMarra

Server related questions about *nix belong here, home use questions belong on SU

voretaq7

19:57

@MDMarra what if the question isn't about *nix but about an Ubuntu-specific bastardization? (Ubuntu being the second-worst *nix for bastardizing things. Apple holds the crown.)

Lucas Kauffman

@voretaq7 on the pic she looks ok, and finding a girl you can talk about computers to without her giving you a "DAFUQ U TALKING ABOUT"-face is very hard :p

Scott Pack

@voretaq7 Is that a girl, or a man with long hair?

MDMarra

@voretaq7 Not sure what you mean. If it's Ubuntu in a datacenter, here. If it's ubuntu in a home, SU

voretaq7

I have no carnal knowledge, and prefer to keep it that way.
She identified herself to me as a female so we'll stick with that :-)

MDMarra

@voretaq7 Also, OS X is POSIX

:p

Lucas Kauffman

19:59

@voretaq7 was she nice?

voretaq7

@MDMarra not all of them :-)

@LucasKauffman she's annoyingly ditzy at times

MDMarra

@voretaq7 Since Tiger, at least(I think)

voretaq7

nice girl, but very sheltered

WesleyDavid

@LucasKauffman You sound lonely. See if gk2gk.com has any Belgians or Turks you can meet up with. =P

voretaq7

@MDMarra I thought Leopard / Snow Leopard didn't have the official blessing of the pope

I could be wrong though - I generally don't keep close tabs on it.

MDMarra

20:00

Not sure, tbh

After they killed the XServe, I officially gave 0 shits.

Lucas Kauffman

@WesleyDavid haha, nah I'll pass :p, my gf wouldn't like that

voretaq7

@MDMarra 's pretty much how I feel. It's a great end-user desktop now.

and maybe one day they'll have a decent server again.

MDMarra

Yep. Really looking forward to ML's airplay mirroring

WesleyDavid

@voretaq7 Right about the time we find where Hoffa is buried.

MDMarra

@voretaq7 Maybe one day they'll come to their senses and let OS X Server legally run in VMWare/KVM/Hyper-V/Xen

If they don't want to make enterprise hardware, fine. I get it. But let me run the fucking thing on enterprise hardware.

Basil

20:03

@MDMarra Why would you want to?

WesleyDavid

@MDMarra The Mac Pro towers at least weigh as much as enterprise hardware.

Basil

It's glossified versions of *nix

MDMarra

@Basil University

voretaq7

@Basil their communication/collaboration suite, storage head, etc.

MDMarra

Things like DeployStudio, Workgroup Manager, etc

Open Directory

voretaq7

20:04

I would LOVE Apple to produce a server so I could run their mail/calendaring shit

Basil

If something can't be provided by a standard open system, it's not worth using.

voretaq7

the whole company has Mac desktops, iCal server and mac mail would be perfect.

MDMarra

@Basil So...no Windows?

voretaq7

@Basil If the "open system" version is impossible to manage it's not worth using.

(cf. @ewwhite's KVM woes)

Basil

Open system was the wrong term...

voretaq7

20:06

I could do everything i'd want to do with OS X using Zimbra (or home-grow something on FreeBSD), but I wouldn't want to manage it :-/

Iain

@PeterGrace drop the author a line, from the man page ss was written by Alexey Kuznetosv, <[email protected]>

voretaq7

@Iain and for $3.50 and a bottle of decent vodka he'll answer your question?

Iain

who knows

@voretaq7 if he's anything like the Russian's we get here he'll backtrace your connection and make your head explode with snark

WesleyDavid

@Iain Consequences will never be the same.

voretaq7

@WesleyDavid wut? I thought that was standard?

RT @mgroves84: git commit –m “CodePlex now supports Git!” http://blogs.msdn.com/b/codeplex/archive/2012/03/21/git-commit-m-codeplex-now-supports-git.aspx < awesome!

Tweeted by zippy1981 on March 22, 2012 at 8:09 PM

^ Not that many of us care, but I'm sure someone here has to interact with codeplex.

Adrian

20:16

@voretaq7 IMHO, getting shit like this done is what happens when the Sr. Mgrs. at MS let the Project Mgrs. do their job.

Lucas Kauffman

I expected MS to create a new, more complex shittier and less supported version of git

Adrian

Of course, giving the managers the freedom to whack the living snot out of the prima donnas also helps.

Chris S

@LucasKauffman That's phase 2... Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.

Lucas Kauffman

@ChrisS I bet it will be called tig

voretaq7

My sophomore year of college the sr. software engineering class project was "Build a version control system." The stated requirements were basically CVS, and "Must run on the Solaris workstations in the lab".

I introduced one of the groups to CVS (already installed on our Solaris workstations).

They wrote a 10-line wrapper script around CVS (itself a few thousand lines of wrapper around RCS) and submitted that as their product.

They got an A. Dr. Barr said I couldn't talk to her software engineering students anymore.

@LucasKauffman no, that's the new name for their linker. (like tig welding)

Lucas Kauffman

20:22

@voretaq7 and just like tig welding it will be hyper expensive

voretaq7

@LucasKauffman now you're catching on!

We'll make a Microsoft man of you yet!

Lucas Kauffman

@voretaq7 last thing we need to do is make a buzword out of it and implant into managers heads

jscott

@LucasKauffman Like "Bing" went over so well?

voretaq7

@jscott why'd they reject the developer's original name - Bong? It wouldda been a hit!

Lucas Kauffman

@jscott more like SHAREPOINT

jscott

20:24

Which way are we flagging chat flags? Up/down?

I forgot

Adrian

And then there's days like today where I hate PHP. Like today.

84104

@Adrian Aww. I'm happy with PHP today.

MDMarra

@jscott always accept

that's my motto

voretaq7

@jscott generally speaking I'm marking them as invalid if they're stupid petty "hurt my feelings" crap

Adrian

FFFFFFFf. That would explain why this PHP isn't making sense. It's annoyingly-written Perl.

voretaq7

20:28

I'm also considering a macro that enters the offending room and says "Take your petty disagreements like grown men and women, or die."

PHP - Painful Hypertext Preprocessor

84104

@voretaq7 It's generally the least bad thing to use.

Which doesn't make it good.

voretaq7

@84104 Ruby/Passenger is looking pretty sweet these days

84104

@voretaq7 Maybe when I have something that isn't the web equivalent of a shell script I'll look into it.

Right now I'm extending my "find which port on which switch this IP address is at" to also accept mac addresses.

voretaq7

PHP is good for those kinda things

84104

Yup.

voretaq7

20:31

PHP6 will be a truly usable language I think

Lucas Kauffman

@jscott if it's from the bridge, accept

Adrian

@voretaq7 I'm pretty sure they said that about v5, v4, and v3.

voretaq7

@Adrian and each was closer.

Kyle Smith

PHP is never going to be great, because it's a kitchen-sync language. But it sure is useful.

But I'm a Ruby/Rails fan.

Peter Grace

Meh.

Ruby can die in a fire imho

Kyle Smith

20:34

Why the hate?

voretaq7

@PeterGrace whyfor?

our developers love it

Peter Grace

My experience with it is with puppet

voretaq7

@PeterGrace no no. PUPPET needs to DIAF

Peter Grace

and more often than not, ruby/rails/passenger is the reason why something's not behaving.

voretaq7

Ruby itself isn't bad.

Adrian

20:36

@voretaq7 Probably.

@voretaq7 I DO rather like Ruby. Teaching myself that one now.

Kyle Smith

I also love Puppet.

Adrian

@voretaq7 Puppet is better than managing servers individually.

Kyle Smith

But it has a lot of moving parts.

And I've found by background in Rails/Ruby very helpful in troubleshooting -- I'd hate to not have that knowledge looking over some of the issues I've encountered.

But yes, @Adrian, I don't miss my pre-puppet days here at work.

In fact I've been working with Geppetto a lot lately, which is awesome.

voretaq7

I tolerate puppet. I prefer radmind.

Kyle Smith

Looking at radmind now, hadn't heard of it before.

voretaq7

20:42

@KyleSmith it doesn't do all the custom/robust stuff Puppet does

Peter Grace

I hear people really like chef over puppet lately

we use puppet here at SE

voretaq7

but where it excels is in distributing the filesystem contents to a bunch of machines

(as opposed to puppet which needs you to do "updates" the OS way

@PeterGrace Chef definitely seems to be the New Hotness

Peter Grace

you can just push files via puppet.

voretaq7

when I played with it I found doing so to be cumbersome.

My pushes are "Make this machine match this template. Do whatever the fuck you have to in order to get it there". Puppet struggled with the last part of that...

of course I only gave it 2-3 weeks of trying

Peter Grace

2-3 weeks is way too much time spent trying to make something work, so I agree if it didnt work for you, punt

voretaq7

20:44

@PeterGrace well that includes setup and other stuff too

Kyle Smith

@voretaq7 That's exactly what Puppet does. Make things work the way you describe in the manifest.

voretaq7

and it worked, it was just more fragile than I wanted

Kyle Smith

When we did our research Chef was not nearly as popular as Puppet. This was about a year ago.

I haven't really done any research since.

I find the Puppet DSL limiting sometimes, but usually it suits my needs.

voretaq7

yes, but it seems to do it by trying to manipulate the running system.
I don't *want* to run make world on my end machines :)

I find radmnd's template structure limiting in a lot of ways, but it has never failed to do what I needed it to.

it could be BETTER at it, but it works.

Kyle Smith

I'm not finding the docs terribly helpful, does radmnd allow you to trigger actions as files are replaced?

Adrian

20:51

@PeterGrace How do you find Puppet works with Windows stuff? We don't have enough Windows machines to justify a real domain, so I'm kinda curious about using Puppet for managing settings/whatnot.

Iain

1

A: With no password expire notification at logon in Windows 7, how are you configuring password expire notification?

This is an old post, but I finally updated the script to detect and not respond to non-expiring passwords. '========================================== ' Check for password expiring notification '========================================== ' First, get the domain policy. '=========================...

some love please

Peter Grace

@Adrian We don't use it with windows, only our linux boxen at this point.

WesleyDavid

So RMS says: "A program is free software if the program's users have the four essential freedoms... #4 The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others."

And that is precisely why I prefer the BSD license. Thanks for clearing that up, Richie!

Adrian

@PeterGrace Ah. Sorry. For some reason I'd thought that SE was a Windows-only shop.

84104

WTFPL

The WTFPL (Do What The Fuck You Want To Public License) is an infrequently used, extremely permissive free software license. The original Version 1.0 license, released March 2000, was written by Banlu Kemiyatorn who used it for Window Maker artwork. Samuel "Sam" Hocevar, a French programmer who was the Debian project leader from 17 April 2007 to 16 April 2008, wrote version 2.0. It allows for redistribution and modification of the software under any terms—licensees are encouraged to "do what the fuck [they] want to". The license was approved as a GPL-compatible free software license by the...

WesleyDavid

20:57

@84104 I like it.

Peter Grace

@Adrian we have about 40 linux servers, believe it or not.

Our web stack is IIS due to the site being written in ASP.NET

Iain

what's the difference between a red flag circle and a blue one ?

Peter Grace

oh, gnomeslice.

WesleyDavid

Invalid! But thanks for trying.

Adrian

@PeterGrace Oh, I find that part easy. It's the fact that you folks manage to get things done with the Windows servers that I find astonishing. ;)

voretaq7

20:58

@KyleSmith not directly

WesleyDavid

Gnomeslice isn't the problem.
We should invite him over here. =P

voretaq7

@KyleSmith you can have pre/post apply scripts

Zypher

@Adrian it REALLY isn't that hard

just a different way of approaching issues

WesleyDavid

@Adrian Windows servers and applications are actually very well behaved* and can do some amazing things if handled properly. Kinda like Linux, Unix, CP/M... =)

Peter Grace

Yeah, @Zypher and I are both "Right Tool for the Right Job" kinda guys.

WesleyDavid

20:59

*(generally speaking)

Adrian

@Zypher I know. I'd hate to have to host SMB-grade HR & Accounting software on Linux systems.

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