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18:01
0
Q: At what scale does a running a datacentre make more sense than simply going the cloud computing route? Or does it ever make sense?

buu700Would Facebook or Google benefit from having been on RackSpace or EC2 from the start, or is it cheaper or otherwise beneficial for them to maintain their own datacentres?

Cripes. "The Cloud" is housed in a datacentre, you ninny
that got closed fast :)
@Holocryptic IDK I don't think that's an awful question...
We need to get Jeff to add a feature to the serverfault site. If a user with 1000+ rep asks their first question on serverfault they need to be forced to the visit the serverfault.com/questions/how-to-ask page....
@Holocryptic, the cloud isn't housed in a datacenter, it IS the datacenter !!!!!
damn, was answering that one
18:03
burn!
@Zoredache So, people who are between 101-999 are okay?
@Chopper3 Unlock, Submit, Lock Again, Enjoy mod-power-abuse.
No, people below 1000 rep should get it for every single question.
can't be arsed - anyone seen MattyS about recently?
I'm guessing you're dealing with stupid questions a bit.
18:04
muwahahaha.
erm...yes, just a bit
So we have school open today.
110 kids out in the high school alone.
I think the national guard is still out in some areas preventing traffic from going near homes that can be looted.
@GraceNote, It isn't that bad really, we just occasionally see questions like this serverfault.com/questions/311421/…, were the person is not the sysadmin. They problem is almost certainly something to do with their local software, or a local firewall... Since they are not the admin they cannot provide any useful details like a tcpdump/logs/etc.
Already had a story about people posing as FEMA reps going around into homes and somehow scamming people.
18:07
@Zoredache I see, I see
@Chopper3 Meh, I'll put a reopen vote on it. I had a nice answer all typed up too...
It might be appropriate for superuser, though I doubt they could provide anything based on the current question.
@GraceNote StackOverflow Doesn't Migrate Crap!
I'll just repost this here in case anyone missed it this morning:
10 hours ago, by tombull89
UK People: Buy a HP P2000 Module Storage Array with an invoice dated 1st August, 31st September and get a ProLiant DL360 or DL380 G7 Server for free. Linky Link.
@voretaq7 That sounds decidedly untrue
18:09
@GraceNote Patently false. But it's their rallying cry whenever we yell at them for migrating crap
it's not so much that they migrate crap, I 'm just not sure they have a 'migrate to somewhere other than SF' button or mentality - "Oh I can't code this answer, must be SF"
i still think the migrators should take a rep penalty if their question is closed as OT
2
@voretaq7 They actually give you a straight face and say that?
@GraceNote there's a meta discussion about it somewhere on m.so
@voretaq7 There's a lot more than one Meta Discussion on it.
18:10
m.so is a house of lies!
Are not.
@GraceNote well one that I participated in, that resulted in us whipping out our statistical penises and pointing at eachother's crap migration records...
5
We have a pretty nice statistical penis, if I could be so bold.
4
and whoever starred that y'all just starred it for "statistical penises" didn't ya? Good to see a cock can get starred as easily as boobs.
4
A well endowed farmer carrying a rooster stumbles drunkenly into a gay bar. The bartender turns to him and says "Nice cock!" ::rimshot::
You'd have about 10 stars if you talked about statistical boobs.
7
18:13
@Ward there's a joke about bimodal normal distributions in there somewhere that I don't remember from my engineering classes...
@GraceNote well one that @voretaq7 participated in, that resulted in us whipping out our statistical b00bs and pointing at eachother's crap migration records...
5
/me blinks at the top 5 starred
user image
5
sexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxy statistics....
…And look how even they are. You know that's not natural - they're always a little lopsided if they're natural!
@pauska Welcome
I wonder how far down the list that sock comment is....
18:17
lol
Guess she saw the star wall and decided it wasn't worth it.
I think @pauska learned an important lesson that day...
not possible to sort by number of stars? :(
That was my thought
@voretaq7 that one stayed around for a while, indeed
my recent allegations of looking like a lesbian was also quite popular
8
I guess I never learn, really
18:19
That was hilarious
@pauska Allegation?
Shit! vote allowance
I think it was the denial that stuck around
Is it just me or has zypher and kyle brandt not been around as much lately?
@Zypher around, he just doesn't talk. @KyleBrandt was in here yesterday or the day before
18:21
Did we say something bad? theres suddenly a load of mods here
perhaps it was STATISTICAL PENISES
3
I think anyone casually reading this room would run out of flags...
I wonder if this room is exploding inappropriate flags.
People that don't know what words mean shouldn't use them:
0
A: Windows 7 naming problem

PatrickI suggest looking in Active Directory to see if the IP address correctly represents the DNS name you are connecting to. The IP address works because it is most likely a DNS issue like Mark M stated.

Are you implying that there's some kind of a link between talking about male genitalia and moderators? Because that might get you in trouble with the modhammers.
Boobs are never inappropriate.
13
18:23
awww yeah....
there is only one appropriate response to all of this.
Interesting. If you select "stars by me" it appears to sort by number of stars.
Shit
Piss
Fuck
Cunt
Cocksucker
Motherfucker
Tits.
3
If you select "stars by everyone" then it is a chronological.
Hey look, another mod :)
18:24
We must have pissed someone off. Thats hilarious
Mods are obviously interested in boobs.
Who? Anyone willing to admit who was offended?
I think it was that lesbian guy...
(daring him to deny being one again...)
@Ward Which one, @pauska?
yeah
18:26
I'm offended - that carlin bit is classic and it didn't even get one star. I'mma go play with my dog. sulks
sorry, deny looking like one
I'm out of stars. I wasted them all on earlier expletives
Well, tits shouldn't even be on the list. It's such a friendly sounding word.
And how else can I describe the birds that come visit my feeder?
@Ward yeah, but it's not a good name for a dog. I much prefer "Mr. Boobers"
18:27
I need to start yelling at my wife to come look at all the tits in the front yard.
Shit, my day is over. Words With Friends for facebook is broken.
user image
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Tits and boobies, what a great day!
@Ward I'd never seen that pair before!
That is a very attractive pair of tits.
No one had better flag my drawing of two bagels as offensive or i'll be pissed.
18:30
After listening to the last podcast for SE I was going to ask Kyle or Zypher if there was a possibility of getting a guest on that could talk about running a business using the amazon cloud. They mentioned someone before with the question of running the SE servers as cloud servers versus how they do it now, but they had talked to someone at a conference about how they run their servers through the cloud and have all sorts of issues.
I thought it would be interesting to hear about that kind of IT setup.
@MarkM: I thought they were eyes for a Simpson's character.
@MarkM You used MSPAINT. OFFENDED
also, hooters.
@voretaq7 It's handy and I'm on windows.
Drawing two bagels real quick doesn't need a lot of precision.
@MarkM even more offensive!
@BartSilverstrim OTOH, when you use it well, like Netflix, things are good. Like anything, some loads are appropriate, some are not.
rummage rummage rummage...
18:33
Anyways... anyone know of a nice simple shape in Visio 2003 that's a brace } which I can expand to annotate sections of, say, a rack diagram?
@MikeyB FREEHAND OR BUST
@voretaq7 I freaking love this
I was just going to do the rack diagram in MS Paint, but well, you know.
@MarkM freehand bust? what?
I think you missed a condition in there, but I'll let it slide.
@MikeyB I'm not joking, the guy that designed the datacenter layout here did it in excel
I wanted to quit on the spot when I found that out.
18:35
@MarkM I think you missed the double entendre, but I'll let it slide.
@Holocryptic I MISS NO ENTENDRES
so you say, so you say
@Holocryptic careful, friction burns...
So how many alleged stars do we allegedly have per day?
rack diagram
18:37
I see the boobies are still alive and well in the comms room.
that is a good one
@DanBig Scroll up for hilarity. Also, welcome back.
Oh my god, its full of stars!
"This is a home based system, not an intra hospital system."
that one makes no sense
@Aaron, I think the point he was trying to make is that there is no central office were you he would place his equipment...
18:41
Still 90% of the problem was his own. He had no backup plan in place...
@MikeyB I like how you incorporated the mspaint bagels.
@voretaq7 WTF?! I can't even think of anything witty to say. D=
@MarkM They ended up looking more like smurf… bagels.
@Zoredache I suppose, but "you get what you pay for"
18:43
@MikeyB We should ask @pauska about how accurate your "bagels" are. He's a lesbian, making him the resident expert, right?
Duuuhhh... it's in there under 'side brace'. yay search (and searching for brace instead of bracket)
Am I late to the party in making sure that everyone has seen the Scarlett Jo nudes?
@DanBig You mean both of them?
There are way bitter pictures of ScoJo's boobs than that on the intertubes.
Yes, but it was nice to see the ass in all its glory as well.
18:50
Rather blurry, though, and not a very good angle.
I haven't looked for them yet
Is there a reason why there are bird pictures in here?
@Aaron Those are tits, you uneducated heathen.
ah, of course. How silly of me
@Aaron great tits and boobies
18:51
Song birds
Anyone have a link handy for what you have to edit in ADSIedit to keep end users from joining machines to the domain by hand?
I know it's well documented, but my google-fu is failing me
I just saw a link to the kb on SF the other day... Where was that question.....
4
Q: Can 'Domain Users' join computers to the domain?

DeanThat sounds very unlikely to me, but just to be sure: Can a member of 'Domain Users' join a computer to the domain (granted that he has the local administrator account)? The instructor said it, and it sounds very wrong. I tested it and I got 'Access denied' when I tryied to supply a regular user...

That has links
Awesome, thanks.
I swear I did that over two years ago, but two new machine accounts just popped up in my empty Computers OU and a luser is listen in the ACL for the object
Hm, it was set to the default (10). I'm losing my mind.
I'm so, so glad I was in work for the most recent conversation otherwise the schools content filter would have kicked in and gone batshit insane.
@tombull89 Your filter catches bagels?
19:05
DIE SLES DIE!!
I just installed the windows 8 dev preview in virtual box - hmmmmm - interesting interface
@Iain "interesting" is a bit kind, don't you think?
@ChrisS yeah
I think it would make a great Win8 Tablet Edition interface, but keyboard & mouse, it's clumsy.
Ohh, I want to see, but I'm not one of the chosen few with an MSDN license.
19:08
@Holocryptic If you just want to see there are videos around that show it off.
@ChrisS it's not helped by not having guest additions either
Will have to look for it after I find the naked Scarlett Johanssen pics
@Holocryptic - i have that link
@Iain, where can one get the Win8 dev preview?
Thanks, i just found it myself. I'm going to spin up a VM
Can everyone download it? I thought it was MSDN only?
I'm downloading it at home now, didnt ask for anything.
@SpacemanSpiff Interesting. Fuzzy, but nice.
@ChrisS I didn't have to sign in
@ChrisS I'm not convinced it's be great on a tablet either. Where is the shutdown ?
19:20
@Iain Power button
As soon as Ballmer realizes that a tablet needs a different interface from a desktop... well.. I don't think he's ever going to realize it.
@ChrisS as in the physical power button ?
I use the ACPI Shutdown in VirtualBox
@Iain Yes. I knew what I meant, why can't you read my mind?
3
Q: How do I shutdown / restart Windows 8 preview?

rm.Just installed Windows 8 Preview, and can't figure out how to get to Shutdown/Restart option in the Start menu. Clicking on start menu brings up the "Start Screen", but Shutdown/Restart options are not there. Had to use command prompt to shut my box down. Ideas?

See, SuperUser isn't all bad.
@ChrisS must be the distance
19:48
Bumped into the corner of a desk before, really big cut & bruise, what a twat!
@Chopper3 Those must be some vicious desks.
Just the corner of a metal desk, I gave it a good whack though
@Chopper3 Ahh, that'll do it. Ouch.
so tired :-/
at least I'm not the only one doing the head bob...
19:55
3 hours of sleep, plus this month has been sucking :-/
So does anyone know of a good way that you could actually use the cumulative capacity of several bonded Ethernet interfaces for a single transfer?
Use one of those download accelerators that can use multiple connections. Wouldn't even have to bond the NICs...
Not really what you're asking for, but an idea.
I was hoping for a layer 2 answer. Something that would be invisible to the network staack...
I don't really care, I was just answering this question... serverfault.com/questions/311454/…
It seems like a pretty common misunderstanding and we see questiosn about it every few weeks.
@Zoredache you can configure bonded interfaces that way in Linux and FreeBSD - the hard part is breaking up the packets going out the virtual (bond) interface and allocating them amongst the physical (ethernet) ones. IDK if anyone has adequately licked that yet....
I have never used it, but I don't believe that aggregating via MLPPP has that problem, and across a MLPPP tunnel you can actually get the total capacity.. I am kinda curious if anyone had every created a switch that would allow you to build a MLPPP connection with lots of interfaces.
@voretaq7, I know that Linux can do some spreading of the load, but everything I have read that you get at best n+n*0.5 where n is the capacity of a single number of the group.
So for a pair of 1GB, you usually max out at around 1.5. For a 3 1GB interfaces you get about 2GB.
20:10
@voretaq7 Packets go out of order and cause all sort of interesting problems when you break the session-NIC link.. To my knowledge nobody's come up with any good solutions.
@Zoredache that's about right. @ChrisS hit the major limiting factor
the processor overhead kills you trying to keep it all together and in order.
@Zoredache I would guess that MLPPP has the same interesting issues as Linux/BSD. I could easily be wrong though.
@ChrisS MLPPP deals with all the messy reordering stuff if I remember right
which is why it's CPU-Intensive.
It does handle some of the reordering. The question would be, could it perform better then the reordering in the bonding module
I assume the bonding module is another college CS project that somehow escaped into the wild, so randomly spewing packets would probably outperform it.... (I'm sorry, was that mean?)
20:24
I dislike MLPPP on religious grounds
@Aaron demonology?
@Zoredache Sure, just make sure load balancing is set to round-robin.
And use jumbo frames to minimize the processing overhead
@Zoredache re: serverfault.com/q/311454/72586 I suspect he means multiple simultaneous iperf streams?
@ShaneMadden, I am sure he is talking about multiple streams, but it sounds like he wants to somehow get the full combined capacity of multiple links.
@voretaq7, it causes more problems than it solves usually
20:34
@Aaron so does Windows!
HEY-OOO!
The last bit at the end here he said this so the full throughput can be used by one single connection makes me suspect that. Which leads to my answer, that I think he can't actually get what he wants.
@Zoredache The wording that he uses, "parallel connections", matches the wording in iperf's docs for multiple threads - which is why I think he's got no special transit. But the aggregation question is much more interesting ;)
man, finally
I was beginning to wonder if that BVI question would ever end
@Aaron Which one?
20:44
1
Q: Cisco Can a NAT router co-exist with a BVI?

George BaileyI would like to make sure I understand this correctly. Given a Cisco ISO router that is set up with a BVI (a variation of a bridge route).. and the following layout "ISP router" \ "Network switch" # nothing special here. | \ | \ | ...

@Aaron Ahh, one of those long-standing discussions. Gotcha.
that is all. for now.
@voretaq7 You should go get coffee.
Ugh, cpanel.
Apparently it says "A restart was attempted automagically."?
And somehow this guy got the idea to only use the apache error log to grep for MaxClients errors?
@tombull89 Smells fake. Check out the whois info.
20:59
hah
stay classy, cisco, stay classy
@ShaneMadden GoDaddy? Really?
@tombull89 that's fine... but if it's fake Cisco will probably sue for use of their logo.
@tombull89 Exactly - and compare to cisco.com.
@ShaneMadden could have been registered by a PR firm. One that will likely be fired soon...
Plus, it's hosted by rackspace.
@voretaq7 Haha, if that's the case, then definitely
21:05
oh hey, my alma mater finally named its law school
@voretaq7 Law schools need different names?
The video they link to seems to be on Cisco's official youtube channel.
@ShaneMadden Hofstra's Maurice A. Deane School of Law -- I think we'll all just stick to "Hofstra Law"
@Zoredache I'm OK with Juniper getting called out - it may encourage them to do faster/better R&D
@Zoredache Ahh, that'll do it!
Doesn't bug me at all either. When companies actually compete, it is usually good for consumers.
21:47
Had to recover a word doc from a .tmp file. That was a new one.
@Holocryptic mrr?
<insert retelling of the parable of the phone company here>
And by breaking up Bell we fostered competition among many local carriers, and prices fell.... what? over 1000 times more expensive? even when adjusting for inflation? Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!
Yes, but look at the number of new features introduced before the break up and after it...
@Zoredache DUDE! ALL I WANT IS A FUCKING DIALTONE AND A PHONE I CAN USE TO BLUDGEON SOMEONE TO DEATH!
::flips out:: ::burns down CO:: ::steals crossbar switch to use as a moving christmas tree exhibit::
::releases squirrels to chew through cabling:: Chaos! Disaster! Panic! ... my work here is done :)
22:06
@EvanAnderson Am I giving GoDaddy too little credit? ;)
posted on September 14, 2011 by Wesley David

If as an IT professional you find yourself consistently using Microsoft Windows, you may be interested in the 2011 TechMentor conference happening in Las Vegas on October 10th through the 14th. There are 8 tracks and over fifty sessions to choose from. There’s even a VMware vSphere track tucked in there as well. However, the [...]

@ShaneMadden: I'd find it hard to believe they're storing FTP credentials in cleartext, if only because crypt or md5-based password storage has been the norm in the *nix world for so long. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but it seems improbable.
An over-the-wire compromise seems a lot more likely.
@EvanAnderson Sure - just very interesting that the victims of this stuff are all hosted on GoDaddy. Maybe a MITM happening at one of their upstream providers. All the limited interaction I've had with them, though, they've seemed pretty amazingly inept.
@ShaneMadden: That's what I'm thinking-- an upstream of an upstream with owned boxen. You definitely get what you pay for w/ GoDaddy. In an early 2000's Internet I can see using FTP but today they really should mandate that their Customers use SFTP or WebDAV over SSL and make FTP an option that you can turn on only after being told about the risks.
@EvanAnderson Definitely - inertia has kept that protocol popular for far too long.
22:21
@ShaneMadden FTP MUST DIE! Everyone take a stab now, just like Caesar...
3
@voretaq7 We're not having the "et tu" discussion again ;)
SSH killed the FTP star.
@EvanAnderson no, it didn't. It just maimed it. FTP is still flopping around bleeding everywhere!
@EvanAnderson Hopefully history will see the extra-tcp-stream-for-data-channel as a contributor, too. We need our children to learn from our mistakes!
@voretaq7: I agree, but it had the right number of syllables.
22:25
@EvanAnderson OK, true, but seriously - can someone kill FTP? It's obviously unhappy, so why not finish the job and put it out of my misery. Take away its port assignments and send it to a farm upstate!
@ShaneMadden: There is some elegance to the idea of third-party transfer in FTP that the data / control separation enables but, in general, I'd agree that it's a PITA.
@EvanAnderson when is the last time you saw that actually used?
@voretaq7: Never. <whine>But it's neat!</whine>
@EvanAnderson I'll settle for SCTP.
@ShaneMadden: I haven't been exposed to it in a practical application to have any feelings about it, other than it reminds be vaguely of BXXP/BEEP... (and, BTW, BXXP was a much cooler acronym than BEEP).
The inbuilt multihoming support in SCTP is damned cool, though.
I think Vint Cerf has actually apologized for TCP not having multihoming capability.
22:30
Yeah, I don't think there's a lot of "practical" going on with it yet. But I can still like it in theory.
"It seemed like a bad idea at the time".
and on that note, I'm out -- laterZ all
I should go back to "real work", too... >sigh<
Didn't see you at LinuxFest this year, @EvanAnderson.
22:43
You know what would make killing sftp a lot easier? If someone could come up with an sftp daemon that supported per-user chroot without the permission weirdness or hacks that are required to make it work.
@Warner: Yeah... that was a little frustrating. My wife scheduled time off of work for a family camping trip and I, stupidly, hadn't put LinuxFest in our shared calendar. Per our schedule conflict resolution policy she won. I had a great time camping, though.
haha -- "schedule conflict resolution policy"
Where did you guys go?
St. Ignace, MI-- on the southern tip of the upper peninsula. The weather was awesome-- sunny, cloudless, low 70's with no humidity. It was great.
The drive up from Dayton on Thursday was really crappy until north of Detroit when, suddenly, the rain stopped and the clouds opened up. Driving right to the edge of the front was wild... we were looking up ahead saying "I think that's the sky up there... and there's this glowing thing in the sky. What's that?"
One last bit of summer... >smile<
@Zoredache: The first time I tried to do a per-user chroot SFTP server on Linux I was really surprised at the gyrations I had to go thru. Craziness.
How was LinuxFest? Once I learned I wasn't going I didn't even bother much looking at the list of speakers.
Ahh, crap. Bradley Kuhn was there. I've wanted to hear him speak for awhile. >grumble<
23:02
Wow, UP. Primitive?
It was good, several good presentations-- Friday sessions were good. I had a lot of fun running the LOPSA booth with Matt.
Met Rich Bowen, author of Apache Cookbook. Caught his class, top quality stuff. Smart guy.
@Warner: "Rustic". In a tent, but w/ running water, bathrooms, etc. Basically an excuse to make fire and cook things over it. >smile< I just looked over the speakers list and it looks like I missed some good stuff.
Nice. I usually go camping several times a year.
We haven't gone as much as we'd like this year. A normal year is 5 - 7 weekends, but life has been crazy this year and it looks like we're going to have 3 extended weekends for our entire season. I interrupted my consecutive Server Fault visit days (at around 180) over the weekend and, coincidentally, the interruption 180 days ago was because I was camping... >smile<
Nice.
Maybe I'll participate again someday. ;p I have a lot going on as well.
We've got one more scheduled in October in western Indiana. I'd really love to camp in the winter but I can't get my wife interested in it. Too cold, she says. I have really fond memories of camping in the winter back when I was a kid (when I was a Boy Scout... >smile<).
Did you get the sysadmin position you were advertising filled?
23:12
Shoot, I have the opposite kind of memories of winter camping. ;p
I made several foolish mistakes though, such as leaving my only pair of shoes outside the tent.
Unfortunately, no. Two positions still open and I may create a third, as I am reconsidering future needs right now.
That's got to be frustrating, not being able to fill the positions. If I knew anybody that I think was a good shot I'd pass along a name, but everybody I know who is competent is either in a full time gig or enjoying freelancing too much not to.
Thanks, man. I might change create a Windows support role and change the other to Network/Linux. Leave one as mid-senior Linux.
It will be easier to fill non-Linux roles.
Siloing makes me sad, but it's a practical fact-of-life.
Market's just tough right now, most people don't want to move. People were moving earlier this year but when the economy started to slow down again, it changed.
Tons of unqualified people though. ;)
Yep. I could totally give you the names of some unqualified people. >smile<
Maybe some of them that I've cleaned-up after... heh heh...
23:20
haha
Out for the night, later man.
Seeya'...
Back to work.
Hey all :)
Anyone got a minute to help solve a minor issue? :P
If you are going to ignore the subject and ask a question, please don't be so annoying to ask to ask a question. This is chat a asking to ask just wastes time...
We need to light up the subject to flash Vegas style
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