:9644 Welcome! First time here?

Sorry, I was AFK

Does anyone have any idea when Exchange Sharing Policies are refreshed/applied?

Nope. I still use password authentication. I'm bad.

@phsr: Not to burst your bubble here, but have you considering using something else than PPTP? It's not the most secure nor easiest protocol to use

@phsr: The new thing(tm) is to use IPSEC over HTTPS

@phsr: why not a client?

openvpn.net works great from what I've heard

That's the role of an IT admin.. If you say so, then so be it. Users dont get to choose stuff like that just because they want to - the security/administration overhead and compexity is what rules this.

@pauska Sounds like your IT work isn't in the education field.

:)

@phsr: pptp :(

We're buying a new Cisco ASA shortly to get vpn over https

I'm a big fan of hardware based firewalls :)

why not use IPSec cisco VPN ?

it uses thier cleint but you don't have to deal with the SSL licensing costs

@jscott: amen :-)

I think you need a cisco VPN client.

Then you can set it up and export the settings to a file that the other clients import.

you do ... but ehh users will get used to it

I've had issues where it screwed up networking a bit on the Mac.

:9764 Lots (and lots) of journalists traveling to all sorts of events with poor internet connections, often with IPSEC/PPTP blocked by rubbish "routers".

An older version didn't like wireless either.

@BartSilverstrim I tried get the Cisco VPN Client running under Debian exactly one time.

I utterly hate the client route. Anything that relies on loading an extension runs the risk of screwing something up.

yea th3e csico client sucks for linux ... but aww crap what is that

there is an open source implementaiton that works nicly

@pauska rubbish routers cause issues no matter what vpn you use

@Zypher: like our cisco router?

@phsr i'll send you a link when i get into the office

@bart hmmm? ... ok sorry guys train about to pull into Penn station ... i'll jmp back in in a bit ...

I've ended up uninstalling and reinstalling the client and it still didn't work on a Mac. Ended up with, "Oh, you need the new client."

@BartSilverstrim Yup, same thing here about a year ago -- but s/Mac/Win7/g

Somehow a "standard" for connections requires a new client...um...

@#%#$ GO2MEETING

NO, I DON'T HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL FIREWALLS BLOCKING YOU. WE HAVE NOTHING INTERFERING. I STRONGLY SUSPECT YOUR SOFTWARE JUST SUCKS.

Worse, their stupid support has seven tiers of menus...

sigh

Morning everyone

Sorry to hear of your troubles @Bart. We had issues with them too

Randomly not being able to connect, "Check your firewall, like Zonealarm" as the solution?

Yeah I think we could host fine but our clients coulen't connect sometimes

We've been through just about every single webinar software, looking for the best one

We have a user trying to get into a webmeeting and it fails.

Are they using wireless? We find that's very often the issue

@Josh:nope, this was cabled.

This time: update java.

:9805 is there a specific error message?

Nope.

vague firewall @#%

Sucks

First thing the guy had me do at tech support was update java.

I do know WebEx has free trials... you could use one for this single meeting...

:9810 A good sign he has no idea what the issue is

Because something obviously broke in their implementation between .19 and .21.

lol, right

@Josh or they're flooded with calls because some jackass changed something in their coding routines and somehow the update magically fixed it.

:9815 That's another good possibility

I'm trying to think of other troubleshooting things we've done with web meetings...

Of course users are happy since they're checking in and discovering it doesn't work just before the webinar and then we have to install software and reboot and blah blah while the webinar starts. I'm not blaming the user here as it should be something that is already built into their software to diagnose this if they change the API or routines that are version dependent...

Yeah. So are your guys hosting, or trying to join?

If you alter your software to fix bugs and haven't regression tested dependent frameworks, ADD A VERSION CHECK to your client software!

:9820 exactly

I seriously wonder if programmers just get used to us hating them or are bewildered why we get so pissed with them.

Now I'm wondering if that wasn't a problem with the other person having this issue, after the tech on the phone had me running undocumented switches for diagnostics and resetting things, whole 9 yards, then it started working through voodoo magic. He never could explain what happened.

:9822 I'm a programmer. And I'm used to everyone hating me, I can understand why because I'm also a CTO and have to deal with other company's programmers, LOL

@Josh: I'm not a programmer but I know a little bit about the field, enough to understand some of the non-political issues.

@Josh: but really...some of these things, for clients, for end users, really are just blatant facepalms

:9826 Agree :-)

Given how some of these things are so dependent on frameworks it's ridiculous how fragile these have become.

And worse, the solution ends up being a burden on the end user to go out and install this or that dependency, and THEN you risk breaking something else that requires the PREVIOUS version of the framework.

:9829 I do! I do!

@Goyuix: I'm always happy when software installs on Windows without mucking something else up.

@Goyuix I already paid for it (and/or support), being grateful for something that barely works seems like a waste of time.

@gouix: and to be fair, that's the EXPECTED behavior.

I don't do cartwheels when my car starts in the morning either.

I shouldn't be grateful when I pay for something or follow the required steps to achieve an end goal and it works as expected.

Because to users, it's the result that matters.

They don't give a damn how Word works or why, as long as they get the memo out.

@phsr linky: cisco.com/en/US/docs/security/vpn_modules/6342/vpn_cg.html

I HATE cisco's site. They make you jump through hoops to download their damn client software.

Did I mention that's another reason I hated Cisco client VPN software?

No company should make things with more friction than necessary to get to the end goal.

I am NOT in the best of moods when the VPN software fails, uninstall, reinstall, uninstall, told to get the updated version, go to website, have to sign in, contact boss (his Cisco account), navigate to client, download, FINALLY get the installer, reinstall, reboot...just let me download the !#%CLIENT.

@Bart we delt with that by just going there on release day and putting the latest version on a file share

@BartSilverstrim I have googled for the Cisco VPN installer, by name, with better results. Lots of colleges/universities post the install for download. Some are password protected, but many aren't. I only say this as I do not have a Cisco account either.

:9778 VPN over HTTPS should not be blocked by routers.. I'm talking about the standard (home) gear out there, where you have to log in to a administrative web page on the router to enable IPSEC and PPTP passthrough.

If i have the exact installer name I'll google for that next time. Shouldn't have to do that, though. Bloody@#$!...update through software, so the user doesn't have to. And have a rollback mechanism too since $DEITY knows that Cisco stuff is so bloody finicky that an updated client may not match the host software on the access point and break.

Sort of like how updating java may or may not break access to our SIS system.

That's why I have to agree with the guy that didn't want a client for VPN...use what's in the OS. Standards based, should work, and updated with the OS.

@phsr: well, other people are free to disagree with me, but the more you can rely on the built in tools for the OS the better.

Everyone knows. But it's a balancing act.

Security is a balancing act.

The most secure computers are disconnected from power and encased in three feet of concrete and anchored to the bottom of the oceanic trench.

Otherwise you need to balance practicality with usability or your users will actively undermine you.

Unless you're guarding something of great importance and there's a good chance someone's actively trying to hack you as a particular target...decently secured should be good enough.

@BartSilverstrim: You forgot the leopard

@kylebrandt: they can't breath underwater.

It would be purely decorative.

Aqua-Leopards can

@phsr: great depths make them go squish.

I imagine that's what the one in Vegas looked like before it tried to eat what's his name.

Good morning :)

@sagar: is it?

It is Friday. I'm trying not to think of anything but the excessive amounts of alcohol :D

for tonight

Sea-Bass with Frickin Lasers

LASERS! Servers with lasers...and remote controls...

sigh next next <accept> next next next...INSTALL!....oh, reboot...

yes, windows, install.

allow.

next.

this thinkgeek.com/geektoys/warfare/8bc4

lol

lasers & Missles

Windows only, though.

:-(

wine

@Sagar: vodka.

although 3d software on wine would be worse

oh definitely vodka in that sense.

Any idea why on Win7 it's designed so sometimes the screen dims and you get a dialog to install something or modify something so that it pops right in front of you, getting your attention, and other times I'm sitting here wondering why the @!#% nothing's happening only to notice there's a glowing UAC shield in the taskbar waiting for attention?

:9896 It's a test, designed to provoke an emotional response

There's an option for that in the UAC settings

I think it also depends on the "urgency"

Can someone please type 'rm -r minecraft* /theinternet' please as I seem to have lost a week of my life

@sagar: if the system end up sitting and waiting for a response...urgent enough that it needs attention...I think it's just poor design. I was hoping there was a rational explanation other than testing if end users can figure out how to tweak UAC settings to keep their blood pressure down.

:9901 HAHA. Have a star

:9903 good on him really, as it's hardly any code at all and just one guy - I'd love it if he spent the money on loads of big 1m3 blocks and built his house out of them, maybe kept some livestock too

Amazing when simple ideas make loads of cash. I hate him.

He turned a virtual lego fetish mashed with a wumpus into millions.

And he's in Sweden? More reason to hate him.

DC-ish? Domain Controller/AD?

I'm pretty sure OpenFiler and FreeNAS do.

So yes, it should be possible with SAMBA/WinBind.

You mean turn it into a DC?

I think it's possible, but hacky.

Last I knew it worked like BDC/PDC model.

And thought they were working on something like AD support...

(SAMBA team)

Microsoft has Unix services available so it should be able to integrate with UNIX-like authentication services.

@Chopper3 16bit ALU in MineCraft

Might have info if you look at how you'd get Windows clients to authenticate to Mac servers.

Since that, I think, is essentially how their services work.

:9926 I saw that, amazing work, dude got a job out of it!

It must have been unbelievably time consuming

crazy stuff

@emtunc NET USE S:

%ERRORLEVEL% will return "0" if mapped, "2" if not mapped.

Was I wrong in this response? serverfault.com/questions/186611/…

Because I'm thinking this was really obvious and hoping he just didn't stop to think.

:9942 no, not as far as I believe, you're right

Okay. Seemed so obvious I thought I missed something.

Another of my screwdriver in the live motherboard moments.

well, in that batch it will go to :map if it exists or not

you might want to add a :end section with exit 0 and goto end below the errorlevel checking

goto? yuck

got any other suggestion?..

IF %ERRORLEVEL% NEQ 0 (
  NET USE P: \\server\share
)

You're already putting in an "if" block

Why not perform your conditional work in that block?

@emtunc No, my bad

Fixed -- I was stupid and mis-formatted it. Should have just used the button instead of markdown.

Is %ERRORLEVEL% the result of NET USE?

then yes.

@emtunc @Sagar Yes

NET USE P:
IF %ERRORLEVEL% NEQ 0 (
  NET USE P: \\server\share
)

@SamCogan: I think that is true, but don't quote me on it.

@samCogan: that looks like a command entered at a console on the Enterprise.

@warp10 wolf 359

@BartSilverstrim: Wolf 359 was a tragic day, I don't think that humor is appropriate for SF.

I truly was a tragic day, but it was also a spectacular show of bravery and dignity in the face of overwhelming odds against humanity.

:9982 You guys need a hobby, or a girlfriend, or something..

@ChrisS: She watches ST too ;-)

I was just about to type: God, I hope you guys are being sarcastic..

:9989 imaginary friends don't count

@BartSilverstrim: Good question about the Win7 UAC, have been wondering about the same thing myself. It should be possible to tweak it via GPO though?

@pauska: don't know, shouldn't have to.

@KyleBrandt: Is this "her"?

Everyone is posting that picture all the time it seems

@BartSilverstrim: MS got alot of complaints about Vista UAC being too noisy and interrupting, thats probably why it got changed to this behaviour. I agree that it's a bit confusing.

:9990 let's see...minecraft has a guy building an Enterprise. And another building a computer. There are websites that have screen stills of battles like at Wolf 359 analyzing starship designs (The Akira is one of my favorites...) I'm hoping geeks are taking over, it would be a good sign for the US.

I feel a bit outdated, havent even heard about minecraft before you mentioned it here

Started the free online version (sandbox) and couldnt quite figure out whats so fun, but the paid version seems very nice.. probably going to buy it to waste time when doing server maintenance at nights

I'm a bit unsure about my answer there, wasnt there some kind of registry edit you had to do to reset the interval timer?

Left comments.

Yeah, the logfile is in system32 somewhere

Windows Updates is another bane.

Izzy (I think it was) said something the other day about having to delete some registry keys to make it refresh updates

Even in Win7...seems like the quickest way for me to check is launch internet explorer, safety (huh?), windows updates, and that brings up the proper screen.

The fastest way in Windows 7 is to click on Windows Updates in the control panel and click check for new updates.. unless you are having troubles with that?

Part of it may be from habit.

Let's see...

start badge->control panel.

You can even click on a link to check updates online if you're targeted against a WSUS server via GPO :)

bloody @#%$ explorer isn't responding.

view by large icons.

scroll to bottom, windows update.

My way was click Internet Explorer, safety, windows update.

Maybe it's habit, but I think my original way was faster for me :-)

Does anyone in here use NoMachine NX for linux?

70 rep from 3k..

:10029 Soon, you too will be able to vote-to-close.

@sysadmin1138: I can't wait, a bit tired of flag'ing to get you guys to vote to close it :)

@Bart, I thought that'd why most of the big vendors dropped red LEDs and are using amber, so you could still see the difference.

@chriss: our Dells are a pretty blue. I think.

We've got all HP, used to have a few old Dells, but we recycled them.

Anybody else notice the volume of noob-level questions has increased this week?

@ChrisS s/this/each/g

why do you think I've been on here so much!

:10037 It seems to come and go more than just build each week. Just seems like we have a lot of "What's a default gateway", or "What's a server bezel", or "I'm too lazy to lookup the difference between RAID10 and RAID01"

@ChrisS Remember, schools are back in session, most just a month or so. Lots of new students.

ServerFault: where people eager to show their knowledge unwittingly do your homework for you.

:10041 Yeah; I've noticed the influx of homework type questions.

Bet it's worse on StackOverflow.

:10044 I can imagine the "How do I get this Hello World program to work?"

@chriss: What's a pointer?

@BartSilverstrim They don't teach pointers... They use Java.

:10047 In that case a pointer is, "Use a better language" ;-)

They're lucky they don't start with assembly anymore.

:10044 Yeah. We're in our 2nd week of classes now, so our CS101 courses are in full swing.

Ah, CS.

We had a number of diptards in my class then. People taking CS because they thought using computers was easy money.

They didn't know Linux from Windows. Some of them didn't know a database from a word processor.

Just expected college to be like a trade school, you go and they show you all you need to know so you can pop out and jump into a job.

Oh lordy...the question on SF about deploying a web app to 2 million users?

I thought he was rolling an existing upgrade or application...sounds like he's asking for some brilliant startup and doesn't even have the infrastructure in there.

Let's overengineer the hell out of it right off the bat because our app is so bloody brillian we'll have millions of users in a week or two!

I'd be interested in knowing if the app's back end is engineered to scale first :-)

I'd be interested in knowing if he has a half decent idea before worrying about any implementation issues at all.

@chrisS: stick it on a decent sized server, start getting customers that pay, then scale it up.

This guy sounds like they're going to dump it into the wild and FWOOM! PROFIT!

I'm sounding cynical and arrogant. I need to cut it back before it's used as proof against me that sysadmins are all BOFH's who sneer at newbies.

I hold other sysadmins to a standard of knowing more than I do, and some things just seem really...*sigh* hindsight, maybe.

:10067 For the most part, we are.

@ChrisS, there is some danger if you have a really good social product, like twitter, wave, Google buzz, where that scale up as needed won't work very well. Sites that heavily depend on a social graph need to be able to accept a rapid influx of users quickly to succeeded...

@Zoredache - very true, but for every Twitter there's probably another one hundred "OMG THIS IS THE NEXT GREATEST THING" that burns.

The question as described just seemed so much to fall into that...we have an app that is going to be so spectacular it'll have 2 million users in short order and we need XYZ to handle it...just skeptical.

What's the SE "trilogy" site up to now for traffic?

Yes, you are almost certainly right.

:10074 quantcast.com/p-c1rF4kxgLUzNc

600-850K/day.

I was thinking it said 830 max per day.

And what kind of hardware?

I thought before Jeff and Joel dropped their podcast/periodic blogging that it was hosted on a few servers, rather modest systems.

:10083 IIRC there is still One Database To Unite Them All, but the front-ends have scaled out some since then.

Well, that tells me that probably it wouldn't take a helluva lot for a modest application to scale to a a lot of users, since the SE site probably could handle a million users a day without burning up.

So his question about deploying for 2 million imaginary users would probably heavily depend on the architecture of the application.

I'm amazed at how the SE site handles things. There are some features that I think could use a tweak, but hey...amazing how they grew it and how well it works.

Wich question are you discussing?

oh, there it is, nm

:10087 The interesting thing about SE is that it is a Microsoft back end, not OSS. The loadbalancers and packet-handlers are Linux IIRC, but the actual web-servers and DB are Windows.

@sysadmin1138: I don't know if it's interesting so much as miraculous that it handles all the traffic...(yes, sarcastic...)

anyone prefer using online chat for tech support over phone calls?

I prefer almost any alternative to phone calls...

I get the feeling some think it's lazy not to call tech support, but I think the text gives a paper trail and makes it clear when I don't always understand what's being said.

:10096 I'm indifferent on either. They'll just ask to remote-control my admin workstation anyway.

:10096 Do I prefer being able to do multiple things at the same time, not having to decode their accent, and being able to relay keys/codes/etc without resorting to the phonetic alphabet? Yes, yes I do.

@sysadmin1138: won't work in this case.

Printer problem from Dell

Paper keeps jamming near the fuser. Unit's 2 weeks old.

I sometimes feel like it's frowned upon that I'm not picking up the phone and calling it in.

Maybe it's a perception problem. I don't know.

:10106 I've gotten that before too.. People looking over my shoulder and noticing that I'm not on the phone (especially since people think we still have to 'call it in' on an actual phone); so they conclude I'm not working on the issue. Or better yet, it's resolved but I haven't told them, so they think I'm ignoring it.

I figure this way I can slap the printout on the desk and I don't have any suspicion of sending the wrong address or not giving a correct description of events.

At the same time...I hate the phone.

Don't hate the phone; it's terribly useful. Unfortunately it's overused these days where alternate mediums (like online chat) typically work better.

WTF is wrong with people.... serverfault.com/questions/186681 (That's as nice as I get for questions like that)

Oy. Although, AIX is almost by definition 'our problem'. But such, such a badly worded and researched question.

And it's cross-post: serverfault.com/questions/186662

Yeeeaaaah.

Cripes....

I sense a fish out of water.

he seems to be big with step by step instruction.

Yes, yes he does.

Kind of like the CS college students I was bitching about earlier.

Train me how to do XYZ and I'm ready for the big leagues! No thinkin' necessary!

Yep. AIX is big-leagues though, so this is the result of such a CS student who got lucky.

@sysadmin1138: hmm...you don't normally picture the CS geeks getting lucky.

chortle

AIX isn't bad at all if you can google and use man... well no worse than the other *nixes.

@ChrisS: I'd argue it's harder because there's less community using them, so it's harder to find certain things and edge cases.

:10140 Yeah; I guess I should reword that as, it's just as easy to do common things. IBM documents the living heck out of their products, so basically all common scenarios are covered.

:10137 If you learned Linux by rote, AIX is not simple to pick up.

:10142 Memorizing how-to documents isn't 'learning' if you ask me...

I suspect the tl;dr generation doesn't read doc unless forced.

the what?

I find articles on topics all the time where I glance over and see they take 15 pages to describe what could be condensed into a 2 page document... they don't get read, and I suspect you run across articles like that too.

tl;dr = "too long; didn't read"

It's a commentary on the demand for instant gratification by America's youth.

@ChrisS was asking about this "doc" word

Ah well, I get a bit riled up by accusations that the younger generations somehow aren't a simple product of the older generations' actions and decisions.

Concise writing is a blessing. I tend to the long winded m'self, so in my internal "what broke" notices I provide a summary paragraph, with detailed info below for those who really are interested in the details.

The 'Remote Differential Compression should be disabled' meme has hit us.

That would be the thing soundly debunked by this article: blogs.technet.com/b/askds/archive/2009/06/26/…

Whoa, wait...

I thought RDC was Remote Desktop Connection?

It can mean two things?

That too, actually.

:)

:10154 It's always worked for me; though I've head others complain...

:10157 MS Renamed it to Remote Desktop Services so they could use the acronym for that other thing.

@ChrisS Yeah, gotcha, I was just breaking rocks. Sorry, this Friday is beating me up. Trying to keep my chin up. I do love the Windows Snake Oil solutions.

Second Google result for "Remote Differential Compression" is about making Vista "faster". First is MS' official docs

I actually ran across a good article for improving speed on Vista and Win7 the other day. It mostly focused on 'disable the stuff you don't use' (like the Smart Card services when you don't use smart cards).

Congratulations on the 10k, @ChrisS.

:10167 Thank you!

Ummmmmm

If I see a request under Apache's server-status which looks like CONNECT 203.188.197.10:25 HTTP/1.0, should I be very concerned?

...

That's unusual.

Do you have apache bound to all ports?

:10174 no, just 80, 443, 8080 and 8888

Srv	PID	Acc	M	CPU	SS	Req	Conn	Child	Slot	Client	VHost	Request
0-0	9422	0/13/38	_	1.49	21	4	0.0	0.00	0.52	125.224.193.19	workingman.digitalfruition.com	CONNECT 209.85.229.27:25 HTTP/1.0

It's OK, they're just getting 404 responses by my server