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17:00
@Bob Ours range...the HVAC system here is weird
17:15
Uh oh...the fire alarm panel is beeping again...nooooooo
Ah, Google, you never do forget anything do you?
Any ideas why someone wants to send serverfault.com/questions/597871/… to Unix & Linux ?
@MikeyB I have a fav of my own... Google "Gartner is " and enjoy
Have people noticed an uptick in question volume this week?
17:25
@ShaneMadden There is an uptick in crap
Bob
Bob
@Iain They probably saw "newbie" and "*nix"
@Iain Heh, fair enough.
are they good questions? i haven't really been paying attention
@ShaneMadden is this the google thing ?
Google's search ranking updates seem to have had a pretty big impact, erased a lot of the traffic decline over the last year or so
17:27
@NathanC "Close the fucking door you'll let the halon out!" ?
@Iain Yup
@voretaq7 We don't have fire suppression in the server room...
(yes, yes, i know)
@ShaneMadden I've sort of been keeping track meta.serverfault.com/questions/5883/…
@NathanC . . . .
@Iain Ahh nice
17:29
@NathanC <silently hands you a bucket of water and points at the door>
@ShaneMadden it's a pity that they can't fix the quality too
@NathanC Ha! How have they gotten away with that?
So it wasn't the fire alarm. It was our security system. It's linked to the HVAC units and a temperature alarm tripped when my boss turned the units on
But, the AC won't actually fire up...so...
@ShaneMadden There's a fire extinguisher...does that count? :P
There was a halon system, but it was too expensive to support I guess. We only have two racks and only one of them has servers on it, but still.
It's an upgrade from the previous "closet" that had possibly live sprinklers...
Bob
Bob
17:44
@NathanC It... what?
Your security system is linked to the HVAC and gets tripped by a temperature alarm?
@Bob Well, it's just an internal alarm with an annoying beeping noise
Enough to say "yo, something's screwy!"
Bob
Bob
Screwy alarm is best alarm.
I was debating on asking for a temperature sensor in the server room ...but it seems our security system has that part covered lol
@NathanC Query the UPS?
@NathanC Not sure how the fire code would feel about that :)
17:58
I'm so tired that I keep dreaming when I close my eyes... I need a nap.
I was up 'till 12:30am last night, and woke up for work at 6am... So tired.
@ShaneMadden Honestly I don't deal with anything building-related so I have no idea what the codes are here. :P
@MikeyB It has an internal sensor, but I'm not sure that's accurate enough (reporting 27C)
@NathanC You want to know the temp in the server room?
@KevinSoviero Remotely, yes. There's a thermometer in the room but that's all it is
@NathanC You have two choice depending on costs and professionalism. One, an Arduino w/ a TMP36, or two, one of these: itwatchdogs.com/…
I prefer the Arduino for the sake of fun.
@KevinSoviero Hmm...I'd have a better sell with the actual unit. :P
18:11
Just had Splenda for the first time, and I put the same amount as the amount of sugar I usually put in my coffee. That was a bad idea... Splenda does not measure like sugar.
@BigHomie That's pretty nifty
@NathanC Yeah, everything's smart nowadays
@BigHomie It's not really smart unless it supports SNMPv2 and v3 with a decent MIB.
18:19
that just opens the door to misnomer jokes
18:32
Anyone here use Chrome on Linux?
PowerChute Network Shutdown 3.1.0 for VMware ESXi
Copyright (c) 1999-2013 Schneider Electric.
All Rights Reserved.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Aborting with error code-5
Error: Unknown OS.
But...but...it's ESXi...
@freiheit and yet there's still no MIB for monitoring NTP. =)
I want to start a petition to get SSL set up for the Comms Room... I go on here at work, and the things we say... Damn.
@Magellan Well, yes, you need to actually monitor the services, not trust SNMP. And, yes, I suppose NTP is especially tricky if you want to include monitoring that the time is right.
@Magellan I'll be in Seattle soooooon!
18:38
@cole Sweeeet!
@KevinSoviero ayup
@freiheit yeah, I'm stuck with OpenNMS. Getting sick of having to write up some damn snmp extend every time I want to monitor a service that isn't designed to be monitored by SNMP.
@MikeyB Did you notice today that things have changed? Namely, that it calls itself "X-www-browser" in the window buttons, and the tabs now are flush with the top when fullscreen. Also, the look and feel of the menus has changed.
@KevinSoviero Nope. (Version 34.0.1847.132)
@MikeyB Check for an update
Version 35.0.1916.114
Yup, there was an update I guess
18:45
it's here already dude
@BigHomie [blocked] The page at 'https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/127/the-comms-room' was loaded over HTTPS, but ran insecure content from 'http://cdn-chat.sstatic.net/chat/css/chat.serverfault.com.css?v=dea0d71abe40': this content should also be loaded over HTTPS.
@BigHomie So it's there, just not default?
Sort of.
@MikeyB Well, at least the crap I say will be secure, right?
@KevinSoviero If the page loads.
18:47
@MikeyB Oh, ya, Chrome just complains, but works
@KevinSoviero Mine complains and doesn't work.
@MikeyB Browser?
@MikeyB ditto
@KevinSoviero dude 2 minutes ago
No chat and the CSS doesn't load either.
18:49
@MikeyB Oh, I just realized that was you.
I can't be expected to look at your avatar or read your name, what is this school!?
Of course, .SE being a Microsoft infrastructure, we should be thankful that it works on anything but IE.
I mean yeah you can click the shield and override it but that's not the point.
@MikeyB Ya, that's what I was about to mention.
There's SSL because the HAProxy nodes speak SSL; it's not really intended to work on chat at the moment.
GOT MY EYE ON YOU
Bob
Bob
18:50
@Magellan Their TLS is from HAProxy, isn't it?
@ShaneMadden Do you work there?
@MikeyB Who?
@Bob Yeah they offload SSL at haproxy
@Bob Dunno. Most of the orgs I've seen that run MS infra tend to have pages that are subtly or not-so-subtly broken for other browsers.
@MikeyB @KevinSoviero we're digressing, what's the point of https if the transcript is on the internet
@BigHomie It's one thing if 'usb anal beads' is searchable, but it's quite another for "anal beads" to show up in the http proxy logs.
18:52
SSH to a trustworthy host and socks5 proxy it.
Or, do some work.
@MatthewIfe Did someone say proxy?
2
@KevinSoviero Yup
Bob
Bob
@MatthewIfe Heh, I can only make outgoing connections to 80 and 443...
@BigHomie it's easier to place an ignore on that fellow. Makes one's day less rage-filled.
2
@MikeyB fair enough
18:54
@MikeyB Ya, I don't mind if the world know what I say, I mind if my employer does!
If you have a trustworthy server, that would still work ;)
Bob
Bob
Had a server listening for SSH on 443 somewhere, but I forgot which one. Meh.
Odd they do that and dont stick a proxy in front.
Well, I suppose SSL can be a nightmare to proxy easily.
@Magellan I'm all better now, promise! (Someone star this so he sees it.)
@cole beers and stuff
18:59
@RyJones Good Morning, Fine Sir.
@Magellan technically, yes, still morning. And a good one. Yours?
@RyJones Technically, it's 2pm here. ;)
@RyJones It's about 6am by my body clock, sadly. Someone trying to sell me a home security system woke me up.
@RyJones 4hr difference between MI and WA?
@BigHomie 3
it's afternoon here now, for people on normal sleep cycles at least.
19:01
thought so, I see now, 11:59 when you made that statement
Those of us working from 4pm to 1am, not as much.
@Magellan ah that is crap. I have the ringers off on all my phones, which is usually the right choice
@Magellan I miss shift work. I'm a night owl, being among the daywalkers is horrid
@RyJones Forgot to turn the upstairs landline off last night when I went to bed. 50yo rotary. It'd wake the dead.
@RyJones I can cope, but it's tough with the babies to maintain it.
@RyJones yeah it'd be nice if we had a night shift, making changes during the day can cause... problems
so we bought a box to ship a TV, and the box came in two other boxes. I've had enough meta for today
s/TV/TV-shaped computer/
@BigHomie eventually you find the quality is better if you take windows during the business day and do your releases then.
19:05
@BigHomie Where do you work? Where I used to work we have one shift, 24/7.
In other words, the same people up all day making the servers hum along, are the same people up at 4am doing deployments.
@RyJones I'm going to have to work on that. I have learned that Friday afternoon and the afternoon before a vacation are not the best windows for changes~
@KevinSoviero haha yeah that's the normal shift of a sysadmin, however the official shift most of the Uni staff is 8:30-5:00
@BigHomie I thought state employees had magical lives of 40 hour work weeks?
@KevinSoviero 37.5, 1 hour lunch.
@BigHomie So, you do have magical lives?
My shift is 8-4:30 with a half hour lunch...I could take an hour but that'd mean staying until 5
out earlier > longer lunch :p
19:17
@KevinSoviero I take coffee and turn it into powershell scripts, sounds like magic to me.
4
@KevinSoviero Hate to break it to you, but the "one shift" bit is where you cut your teeth and learn the job. You get the cushier bits with a little experience, a little humility, and an eagerness to work with a team and bust your ass.
@Magellan I already have a job where I only have to work strictly 40 hours. and I love it.
@Magellan ayup - how's it going ?
@Iain It's not bad. Lots of work to do to overcome a bunch of technical debt while dealing with meteoric growth. I'm not as sharp as I'd like to be now, but that's mostly sleep deprivation.
19:21
The family is good then :)
Solutions that worked fine for 15 servers in 1 rack at a MSP down the street don't always work so well with a half dozen DCs worldwide.
@Iain yeah, both little ones up over 8 pounds now. Fairly healthy if not terribly happy. Our diet is high in veggies and low in carbs, so the girls are a bit gassy.
I bet ;)
19:40
and there we are
Chat was down for 1/2 hour, thought I was going to spaz out.
only down about 15 minutes here
@Magellan Twins iirc
@RyJones lol well they are migrating to Oregon ;)
ok, who broke SE?
@BigHomie again? crazy
19:42
@RyJones I didn't know they did it before, just read the stack status
We have completed the move of #stackexchange chat to Oregon
very nice
but if they were only moving chat, why are the qa sites down?
ahh, those are back up too
I wonder if they moved more than just the chats
@Colyn1337 I didn't notice, but I was only on Embedded.SE and DIY.SE
@Colyn1337 A hiccup with the SQL clustering, heh.
19:58
What's the most efficient way to store a file path in a DB? I guess a varchar is the only option, right?
@KevinSoviero text
unless you want to set a maximum path length
@voretaq7 Aren't paths limited to 255 chars by the fs itself?
4096
255 for individual names.
@MatthewIfe Which FS is that?
@MatthewIfe Oh, right!
@MatthewIfe not on all filesystems
20:01
its a system limit, some filesystems support more.
well -- if you want to make it posix compatible its a system limit
never tried setting a longer path to see if it would actually work.
Hey, if I have a SQL query that generates a large table with a performance metric over time for many different machines, is there a way to have SQL do some averaging for me? Can I have it, for example, calculate the average for each machine, and maybe even the standard deviation?
@MatthewIfe ntfs ==260, ext4 == .... unlimited ??
@Basil you can make sql do math in a query, yes
@RyJones thanks :)
20:09
amazon.com/Joe-Celkos-Smarties-Fourth-Edition/dp/0123820227 this used to be the tome from which you learn
@MatthewIfe Okay, b/c it can do unlimited subdirectories, but I guess not really eh
@BigHomie interesting fact: windows will freely allow you to write more files to NTFS than you can read or delete
no limit in the filesystem. Not sure if linux respects any kind of posix limits
our windows build machines get hung on the OSX projects having stupid long paths. so, check out source, build (ignoring OSX folders), go to clean up for next build - failure
you should probably set it to 4096 anyways. Any application that has a path len should probably be doing 4096 too
cant say for windows though.
20:12
@RyJones How's that even possible ??
@BigHomie windows will let you do what you want
I had something like that once for a disk forensics software. They were dumping machine images to a NAS share
so the UNC for a file would be 40 characters of NAS location, followed by the deepest longest path you could find on the laptop they imaged.
if you want to see NTFS/Windows fall over, check out an old repo using a DVCS (git, hg) a couple times. I have one in mind, but I don't want to blame the project
@Basil Doesn't sound like an image though...?
@RyJones Perl? :)
20:15
due to git's implementation (and hg), you will quickly hit millions of items for NTFS to manage, which is bad, m'kay?
@RyJones Now that you mention that, I think I have seen that
@BigHomie they took the filesystem and copied it to the NAS share
not a true image, but they called it an image
@BigHomie it gets worse if you let windows index the file system
I'm sure it didn't make the news, but the PNW had a hurricane offshore on Tuesday. Cute little thing with 10mph winds and about 60 miles wide.
20:18
Heh. Reminds me of remember one particular problem I was called in for.
"It takes 5 times as long to check out our code repo on an NFS directory as it does on a local directory."
*checks*
"Oh. Hmm. 330,000 files and directories."
*thinks*
"Don't do that then."
2
@Magellan little?? as in normally bigger??
or 10mph winds
@Magellan didjya drop a zero there?
@voretaq7 no, that's accurate
Seriously - if you need to clone your repo again, ssh into the nfs home server, check it out there. "but that's more difficult."
I read about it on the blog of Cliff Mass
20:21
@RyJones 'cuz 10mph is like... an average breeze here.
@voretaq7 Whoah - 600 miles wide.
@voretaq7 That's the speed of farts?
@RyJones fpa milf class
@MikeyB idunno, but it's the speed of the wind on an average day in NY
10mph is barely even enough wind to complain about when bicycling into it as a headwind.
20:23
I routinely stick my head out the window when driving down the street @ 10mph
that's why he said little, probably
@BigHomie ...and look around excitedly panting and shouting "OH BOY! CAR RIDE!"?
@voretaq7 You know it.
I only roll my windows up with the rain is blowing on my glasses
@MikeyB git repack? + git gc?
@BigHomie ...wait a minute....that's the vet's office!
20:24
everyone that rides with me hates it.
@voretaq7 Had the happen to a dog we had
<enraged lizard hiss>
@freiheit svn (that's how many actual distinct files are in the working tree)
@voretaq7 We rescued it, and it was always leery of car rides, thinking it was going back to the shelter probably. She finally warmed up to them, and we had to send her back.
@BigHomie my last dog got a soup bone stuck over the teeth on her lower jaw (don't ask). She was perfectly fine until we got out of the car at the vet's office - then she started frantically pawing at the bone trying to get it off.
20:25
@MikeyB tar cf - . | ssh $host tar -C /whatever xf -? :)
@voretaq7 lol that's awesome lol
@voretaq7 She knows what kind of terrible things happen in that building!
I think that's when she realized "Oh. This is something I should be ashamed of."
@freiheit Yes a similar solution was presented. But really: ssh nfshome svn co svn://whatever yetanotherworkingtree
...of course then the vet gave her doggie drugs to make her stupid so they could saw the bone off and she stopped caring about being a laughing stock.
"Wooooo they're using a cast cutter on my face. Meh, dafuq do I care? I'M HIGH!"
and then the waking up the next day when we picked her up. "Mmmhhhh? wha? Where the hell am I? How'd I get in the vet's kennel? Oh god - I didn't sleep with that pug did I?!"
20:33
ohhh boi
because of
woah
why u do this
delete the shit that's causing malware warnings please
so, if one were to link to a meme every so often, no one would read the chat scripts off google, for fear of malware. <silently plots>
cdn.memegenerator.net is apparently a malware site now?
@BigHomie I didn't think sysadmins were quite that bad!
20:37
GG Chrome.
@BigHomie (also, I got the same thing and used advanced to ignore it)
@freiheit lol look at the dude with the striped shirt and bank robber bag, gotta love graphics designers
@freiheit I think we all did
You know that moment when you're at work and a wild porno appears? Hate that. Just as you think you're getting good at navigating the internet. NOPE.*
shit
@RyJones I assumed we had some IE, Firefox and Opera users in here. :)
20:38
I think I fixed it. Not sure.
@freiheit @BigHomie I got no warnings. Safari doesn't care.
Nor does firefox on linux.
@voretaq7 it was from an old transcript
I got "Reported Attack Page"!
@voretaq7 read that in the honey badger voice
20:39
I didn't get one after I linked it in here
Only Chrome knows about how bad sysadmins talking to each other is and tries to protect innocent people from such horrors.
@mossy What other voice would you read it in?
@voretaq7 Brian Blessed
@RyJones I've no idea who or what that is.
@mossy define wild
isn't any porn at work bad?
@voretaq7 you'd remember if you had seen him
I considered buying a Tom Tom just for his voice addon
@BigHomie No matter how hot and sexy an 8-socket server or cabling job is, nobody questions me looking at it at work...
@RyJones meh. Honey Badger is a better fit for ignoring malware.
He sounds like he actually gives a shit.
"Safari don't care. Safari doesn't give a fuck. You get malware, it's your own problem."
dat bead
20:46
(silly video actually included girls when I all I wanted was welds!)
@freiheit I see now, b/c if this popped up on my screen when I was at work looking for welds then I'd be called into question.
@freiheit I'll assume that's NSFW
@RyJones what I saw was, just welds
Dennis is here
20:49
I'm blind!!!
@RyJones I can't guarantee every image is ok, but the top 30 are fine... then you see the scary shirtless dude...
and this.
@mossy looks safe
@freiheit well done
20:51
@freiheit As someone who doesn't know anything about welding.. I'm going to assume that is difficult to do.
Looks cool anyway.
Do you look at something like ^^ that and think to yourself... ooooh baby I'd like whoever did that to make me a bicycle?
@mossy The ideal is something looking like "a stack of dimes" and that's like some crazy dual dime-stack shit going on... Only really good people can get one row of that stuff to look that good.
@freiheit ahh i see.
I don't weld, either, but I've slowly developed the ability to identify well done welds. :)
#weldporn
@voretaq7. Nope. Cute little guy.
20:58
who wants pics of the produce installation I'm doing right now?
me
There's a glue fly-trap next to the server
the CPE setup at Boomershoot is getting impressive.
I didn't take a picture this year, but there are more solar panels and batteries, plus another couple legs of point-to-point wifi
I'm slipping a server in beneath that.
It's a little gross... I mean, the bugs are dead...
So glad i don't have to work on ghetto servers anymore.
21:04
except for one that escaped the glue trap
Thie one was wiggling...
@Magellan pal owns a place in Seattle called 'Ghetto Colo'
I'm going to have to double-check, but I believe these switches are cascaded...
And are any of you familiar with Ethernet-over-Copper?
21:08
@ewwhite ... so what are you installing for them? Seems like they need a whole redesign of their servers/stuff.
@hichris123 Just adding a new server.
@ewwhite those are some pretty horrible data rates
@mossy never get downhill of an offroad rig
@ewwhite Isn't ethernet-over-copper, you know, just ethernet...
@KevinSoviero You should click the link
21:17
@freiheit So, really long ethernet?
@KevinSoviero On phone lines
@freiheit Like DSL, or just literally an RJ45 attached to phone lines?
> 2BASE-TL -- defined in clauses 61 and 63. Full-duplex long reach Point-to-Point link over voice-grade copper wiring. 2BASE-TL PHY can deliver a minimum of 2 Mbit/s and a maximum of 5.69 Mbit/s over distances of up to 2700 m (9,000 ft), using ITU-T G.991.2 (G.SHDSL.bis) technology over a single copper pair.
@freiheit I already read that... Or tried to at least. Didn't really help.
I wonder if you could use power lines as pairs in an RJ45, with such a large diameter, it has to have pretty low resistance over long distances.
Real power lines, not that crap inside houses
@KevinSoviero I think the "SHDSL" in the "G.SHDSL.bis" thing means it's a symmetric version of DSL (that can't be shared with POTS via spliters)
21:23
@freiheit Ok, cool
@freiheit just put him on ignore - the channel gets nicer
@KevinSoviero The twists in UTP cancel out external interference, so you can't simply replace them with straight wires, no matter how big they are.
@RyJones Why do people keep saying this? I'm not that bad, am I?
@freiheit That's true, but what if they're far enough apart from each other?
@KevinSoviero Missing the point. :)
@KevinSoviero Yes. Yes you are. Reading for Comprehension would be a good start.
21:40
@Magellan I read novels in my spare time, does that count?
@Magellan So, your biggest problem with me is one of my own limitation? Gee, are you nice.
I'm not here to be your wet-nurse. Deal with it.
3
@Magellan That's a tropical depression that somebody doesn't know the right terminology for and wrote a little article about.
@Magellan How old are you?
21:46
@freiheit highly un-tropical considering that it's off the Canadian Coast. :)
@Magellan The energy source of the big ones is warm water, so there's lots of "tropical" in the terminology.
@freiheit That's all Japan Current water. Butt cold.
@Magellan canada's near the equator, right?
@DennisKaarsemaker Yes. Compared to you guys, at least. =)
@Magellan we're at the same height!
21:49
funny: If you google 'the comms server fault' the first result is a link to the room via https
@DennisKaarsemaker I'm pretty sure the Canadian Rockies are taller than your elevation right now. =)
@Magellan Yeah, you're right, that's just a cool-looking wind-shear thing or something.
@freiheit yeah. it had a slight low-pressure center to it, so it spun up like a teeny little hurricane. It's cute. =)
And a lot less scary than waiting around for the Cascadia Subduction Zone to cut loose and level every structure between the Coast and the Idaho state line.
@DennisKaarsemaker Are below sea level, or a whole meter above it? ;)
21:51
@freiheit a few below. It's warmer down here :)
@DennisKaarsemaker Odds are good that everybody else in here is above sea level..
@KevinSoviero I think I'm done giving you answers to questions that with 2 seconds of thought you could figure out where to find that out for yourself.
4
@Magellan Hey, ass hole, I didn't know your ServerFault profile had your age, I didn't even know that was an option. Why don't you un-bunch your panties.
otoh, makes me appreciate the new junior we hired a few weeks back. Good kid that knows where to look to make sure his questions are reasonable before he bothers us.
6
21:54
@KevinSoviero @Magellan Time out. Now.
you're both making fools of yourselves.
@DennisKaarsemaker hey now, that's my specialty.
@freiheit Focusing on my posture helped a lot!
Much less back pain
Hey does anyone really use this?
11
Q: Is there a voice chat version of the Server Fault 'Comms Room'?

Chopper3Is there a voice chat version of the Server Fault 'Comms Room'? Perhaps using the TeamSpeak 3 protocol?

@Jacob hmm. I need new glasses. I was wondering what moisture you needed to focus on...
@Jacob back pain bad! Glad you got it to go away!
21:57
@DennisKaarsemaker huh?
@DennisKaarsemaker office got a new DC spun up in your neighborhood. They're running it through an MSP, so I couldn't fly out there to help set it up. =/
@Magellan MSP?
@BigHomie managed service provider
Also I got to visit a in progess brewery today!
@Jacob you get a token for a beer at the end?
21:59
@Magellan Gotcha. FTR, I googled, but it was ambiguous
<< Desktops
@Magellan It's under-construction, and I'm not of age
@BigHomie damn. You're not kidding.
@DennisKaarsemaker If you cycle a lot, you might have to worry about moisture encouraging tinea pedis, or worse: tinea cruris...
@Magellan do you know which facility?

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