The Comms Room

Wesley

00:02

@ewwhite Was good - got to interview with one of the founders. We talked high level goals, needs, what the company is like, what I do... etc. It's a company by geeks for geeks. About 20 people, growing, distributed, lots of neat scaling problems to solve and get into.

Doesn't seem pretentious at all so far - just people that had a good idea and are in the process of expanding that idea to encompass a few more needs.

Joel E Salas

@Wesley Which company?

voretaq7

@Wesley What email platform do they use? :)

Wesley

@JoelESalas MongoHQ

Joel E Salas

GMAIL

voretaq7

@JoelESalas fuck you people and you "I don't have compliance and archiving requirements" industries! <runs off sobbing>

@JoelESalas (also how do y'all back that shit up?)

Joel E Salas

00:05

@voretaq7 We're using Exchange because we're a real company

voretaq7

@JoelESalas Give me your Exchange admins

(like, for free)

MikeyB

@84104 You're weird.

Joel E Salas

@voretaq7 We fought hard to get him, we can't just give him away like that

voretaq7

I want to use exchange. I just don't want to have to integrate it into the environment.

Wesley

@voretaq7 Just have @MikeyB build you out a Zimbra environment.

voretaq7

00:06

it's "too different" -- Zimbra is the outer edge of "different" that I can integrate.

@Wesley can @MikeyB make the S/MIME headaches stop? :)

Wesley

@voretaq7 Well, he's Canadian so he can get you cheap meds. Does that count?

voretaq7

that's like literally the only box on the migration checklist that's not checked right now.

(well that and testing on Windows Phone and Android)

Skyhawk

@voretaq7 From what I have observed, an awful lot of Exchange organizations are in dreamland when it comes to archiving and backup.

voretaq7

@Skyhawk yeah. I can't do that.

MikeyB

@voretaq7 Could do it at the gateway? (ew)

voretaq7

00:08

Aside from the ethical and moral obligation I have, I'm not going to take a regression in our DR/BC plan to get rid of qmail. that would just embarrassing.

MikeyB

@voretaq7 use fetchmail to pop out of a zimbra mailbox and pipe into a script? (not ideal, but possible)

voretaq7

@MikeyB it's not the server end that's the problem - it's the clients

I can't ask our CEO (who is an MD so thing "totally not technical") to use fetchmail. If it doesn't work like a microsoft product it's too complex

MikeyB

@voretaq7 that was answering "How do I tell you to run an external program and pipe mail to it?"

voretaq7

@MikeyB oh that -- yeah I might do that

I think I can tweak it into postfix somehow, I'm going to talk to the Zimbra guys about that tomorrow after they digest my last set of bullet points.

That's one of those "Problem, but not really a problem" situations

Wesley

@Skyhawk Do it to it! meta.serverfault.com/a/5979/9770

MikeyB

00:10

@voretaq7 "Sigh… OK I'll do it that way."

voretaq7

@MikeyB it's preferable for the mail server to do it b/c it means tickets get generated in real time

but I could poll every 5 minutes and in reality that's more than enough

Skyhawk

@Wesley I'm currently indoors. I don't want to overheat.

voretaq7

Oh I found out today that qmail/vpopmail is storing a plaintext copy of everyone's password

MikeyB

@voretaq7 Yeah definitely let me know what they say about S/MIME.

@voretaq7 Do tell.

voretaq7

so there was like 15 minutes of me pacing in my office swearing and kicking things.

@MikeyB the vpasswd file is basically like an /etc/passwd workalike for the crappy virtual user/domain auth shit they do

and the last field in that file is the plaintext password

MikeyB

00:13

@voretaq7 oh ffs

voretaq7

which is good because it means I can migrate without having to change everyone's passwords (and I can force them to change them once they're on Zimbra)

@MikeyB yeah. Like I said - 15 minutes of me pacing in my office swearing and kicking things

ewwhite

@vore I do Exchange. Hire me!

voretaq7

@ewwhite heh if I had the budget I would :)

but Exchange wouldn't really solve the problem unless we get everyone office for mac (yay, even more licensing costs!)

and zimbra is cheaper and a better fit - even though it's Ubuntu it's still unixy enough that Bacula can do the backups.

@MikeyB you guys have Network Edition?

MikeyB

@voretaq7 yeah we have a buncha NetworkEdition/BDS installs and a couple OSE installs.

ewwhite

Zimbra is a bitch because they're stricter about licensing than exchange.

voretaq7

00:15

I really do like Exchange as a user - it's the best enterprise mail/calendar system I've ever used.

@ewwhite yeah but we're small enough that that's not an issue, and we're really good about licensing here - they'll pay for it but they're going to ask about alternatives

ewwhite

I've done three big zimbra installs and managed to do a few zimbra to exchange evacuations.

Skyhawk

@MikeyB Fuck content farms. Google should blacklist them all and be done with it.

ewwhite

Exchange is cheaper long term.

voretaq7

I did propose Exchange for this project

ewwhite

IMAP support is okay.

voretaq7

00:17

but the costs (staff, windows license, exchange license, outlook) outweighed Zimbra right now.

MikeyB

@Skyhawk Yes!

@ewwhite IMAP on what? Exchange?

voretaq7

@ewwhite really? When I scaled it out to 1000 users it was about neck-and-neck

Skyhawk

@MikeyB I mean, even their above-average articles are still spam.

voretaq7

@MikeyB IMAP works OK on Exchange - I wouldn't use it though

MikeyB

@voretaq7 yeah nobody here uses Office. Oh, OK, one person does.

voretaq7

00:17

OWA or whatever they call it now is really good, and ActiveSync is better for phones.

@MikeyB literally nobody here does anymore

ewwhite

IMAP works for thunderbird with two tweaks.

Skyhawk

@voretaq7 OWA still has serious limitations. All the Office Web Apps do.

voretaq7

everyone users Keynote for presos, Numbers for spreadsheets, and Pages for dealing with .doc/.docx files

ewwhite

@vore you didn't get MY pricing.

84104

@voretaq7 Zimbra can use the exchange interface for phones without issue.

Skyhawk

00:18

@voretaq7 They just look complete at first glance.

voretaq7

@84104 yeah, network edition has full activesync support. I was even playing with the provisioning functionality which is SWEET

ewwhite

Zimbra doesn't compare. And I trust it less since it's VMware.

Skyhawk

@voretaq7 Unless something huge has changed in the months since the last time I allowed myself to be thoroughly unimpressed by them.

84104

@ewwhite I don't think it's VMware anymore.

voretaq7

@Skyhawk they're not at the functionality of the desktop apps (and IDK if they do S/MIME)

zimbra is still VMWare

which I don't mind

ewwhite

00:19

Last install I did was VMware backed.

Skyhawk

@voretaq7 Yeah, good luck with stuff like that.

ewwhite

We had hella licensing issues.

84104

@voretaq7 Not Telligent Systems?

voretaq7

If it does S/MIME in the browser it wins. 'cuz really "able to send/read encrypted email from wherever I am" is VERY high on my list of requirements.

ewwhite

Truth: even my all-Linux sites prefer exchange.

voretaq7

00:21

@84104 They're some kind of partner

84104

@voretaq7 Your webmail server will have the private key, which is probably okay for what you're doing.

Skyhawk

@voretaq7 Have you played around with the iCloud versions of the Apple office apps? They just plain work and you don't run into stupid limitations with them, even running them in an unsupported browser on a PC. Polar opposite of the Microsoft offering.

voretaq7

@84104 actually you can't do that in Zimbra, but I would allow that compromise.

Skyhawk

@voretaq7 (I get that they may not work in your organization for security reasons.)

voretaq7

@Skyhawk the problems we hit are all compliance related (archiving and discovery in Zimbra solves that nicely), and paranoia related (the CEO right now is SHIT about encrypting confidential internal emails. Right now they just bounce around on our server but if they're going to Apple or Google or someone I don't want that shit in the clear :-/)

if we didn't have the security issues and I wasn't a stickler for backups and DR/BC I'd just say "We're moving to Google Apps"

or some Hosted Exchange solution

(does anyone know if Google Apps supports S/MIME in the web UI? I've never tried....)

((it looks like they push you to Postini like they do for archiving/compliance auditing))

Zoredache

00:24

@voretaq7 it does not

Skyhawk

@voretaq7 I just moved a credit union to Google Apps. Pure simplicity, and the auditors like it. But yeah, pretty sure it's Postini or nothing.

Zoredache

there are supposedly a Firefox plugins to support GPG on Windows with gmail.

voretaq7

and can I just say I LOATHE those "We store the 'encrypted' data on some extra machine that you access via https"

@Zoredache we have those on his machine for Thunderbird right now - at least he's stopped losing his damn private key, but he's still shit about clicking the little lock when he's about to send something confidential

MikeyB

@voretaq7 Can you just do S/MIME at the edge?

voretaq7

and iPrecious devices don't support GPG at all so you can't read encrypted messages on your phone anyway which is probably WHY he's shit about it (they do S/MIME though)

MikeyB

00:26

Skyhawk

@voretaq7 Ever heard of Penango?

voretaq7

@MikeyB not really because the message needs to be encrypted to each recipient's keys and (more importantly) signed by the sender's private key

@Skyhawk yeah

I'm on the fence about stuff like that

Skyhawk

@voretaq7 Any idea whether it's built correctly?

voretaq7

@Skyhawk that's why I'm on the fence -- I can't really audit it

Skyhawk

@voretaq7 Yeah.

voretaq7

00:28

with GPG or S/MIME I can see which keys something was encrypted for -- if I see a shared secret or an extra key I know something's hinky

with black-box stuff like that I don't know if they're tacking on a "master key" or a "recovery key" or a "we give this to the NSA" key

or intercepting the plaintext on decryption

Falcon Momot

@voretaq7 loads of people do S/MIME at the edge

voretaq7

or logging the full plaintext data sent over HTTP

or 1000000 other things

Scott Pack

Wait. What's @voretaq7 whining about this time?

Falcon Momot

by keeping a key repository or whatever

voretaq7

@FalconMomot How do they do the signatures with non-repudiation?

Falcon Momot

00:29

they hold the private keys at the edge

it's dumb as hell

voretaq7

@FalconMomot yeah, it breaks non-repudiation

Falcon Momot

but the only way to do it if you're using stuff like activesync

voretaq7

so that's just a non-starter

Falcon Momot

and windows phones that don't support S/MIME still

there is absolutely nothing good I have to say about it.

voretaq7

@FalconMomot nope. The iPhone does S/MIME on the device like god and nature intended

Falcon Momot

00:30

it does. but windows phone doesn't.

voretaq7

I think Android does too (tomorrow's test)

Falcon Momot

I believe so? never tried.

voretaq7

@FalconMomot well.... we only have one person using windows phone and I'll tell her she's S-O-L :P

Falcon Momot

should.

voretaq7

(she's a bookkeeper, she doesn't send anything that needs crypto anyway :P)

Falcon Momot

00:31

apparently there will be a service release later this/next year that adds it

Skyhawk

Have Windows phones even supported ActiveSync properly since version 6? Microsoft apparently just kind of gave up on making them business-compatible.

voretaq7

it's manly the tech team and the support team where crypto is a thing

Falcon Momot

damn... bookkeepers should especially use encryption, even though it's hard to get them to.

voretaq7

@FalconMomot she's good, she doesn't email shit that shouldn't be emailed in the clear

Falcon Momot

hmm, the stock email client on my android doesn't understand S/MIME either

voretaq7

00:32

@FalconMomot bleh :-/

why the fuck do we have standards?

Falcon Momot

one does wonder.

voretaq7

nobody implements them why even fucking bother. That's it, I'm running my own SMTP (Shitty Mail Trashing Program) agent on port 25. instead of "HELO" it's gonna be "YOFUCKFACE". "RCPT TO" will be "EAT IT <address>"

Skyhawk

The only way to do anything resembling real ActiveSync on Android is to buy TouchDown licenses.

Joel E Salas

@Skyhawk Why is it so shit?

Skyhawk

@JoelESalas Beats me. The only devices that even try to implement it properly are IOS devices.

voretaq7

00:34

and errors will be 600 series codes. "666: This email is the spawn of satan. REPENT, SINNER!"

@Skyhawk I was really impressed with the provisioning capabilities Zimbra exposed through ActiveSync

(less-than-happy after I had to rearrange my icons after disabling/enabling my camera, but still impressed)

ewwhite

You know... You can write your own autodiscover routines.

voretaq7

From what I remember BlackBerry devices do a good job at provisioning too

but IIRC that was all done through BES not ActiveSync?

Skyhawk

Comparison of Exchange ActiveSync clients

{| class="wikitable" style="font-size:normal; text-align: center; width: auto" |+Comparison table of Exchange ActiveSync clients14 |- |style="background:#FFEC8B" | Company |style="background:#FFEC8B" | Microsoft |style="background:#FFEC8B" | Microsoft |style="background:#FFEC8B" | Microsoft |style="background:#FFEC8B" | Microsoft |style="background:#FFEC8B" | Microsoft |style="background:#FFEC8B" | Apple |style="background:#FFEC8B" | BlackBerry |style="background:#FFEC8B" | Nokia |style="background:#FFEC8B" | Nokia |style="background:#FFEC8B" | Google |style="background:#FFEC8B" | Google |s...

Hm. Nice preview.

voretaq7

I haven't had a blackberry since whenever-the-hell-the-first-iPrecious-came-out

@Skyhawk Tables make markdown cry

that is an impressive amount of green under iOS

Skyhawk

...and an impressive amount of regression from Windows Mobile 6.5 to Windows Phone 7, particularly with respect to enterprise policies.

voretaq7

00:38

yeah

I do want to say that besides security my interest in this crap is all the FDA's fault (Part 11 compliance)

MikeyB

@voretaq7 You can provision a BB10 directly to a Zimbra over Activesync and you'll get the policies, etc. pushed from Zimbra. You can also provision it to a BDS attached to Zimbra and you'll get the Work space and more refined control.

Scott Pack

@shanemadden What really fucked me was that I still have my stuff set up as prod: /etc/puppet and dev: /etc/puppet-development using the same puppetmaster instance. In all the years this is the first time I've actually had to think about how the running process interacts with the config trees.

Skyhawk

Hey, Windows Mobile 8 re-implemented the "require device encryption" feature! What a clever idea.

voretaq7

@MikeyB what about pre-10 BB devices - those need the BES/BDS/whatever-they-call-it for policy provisioning right?

MikeyB

@voretaq7 pre-10 BB need BES for any sort of policies, yeah. But you don't want those shitty things. That'd be like using a PalmOS over your iPhone.

voretaq7

00:42

@MikeyB I've no experience with BB10 so all my hate is based solely on the crap we had to deal with at $job[-1] and the major woes whenever the central BB mainframe or whatever the fuck it was would shit itself and NOBODY got notifications about ANYTHING until they got the only moose in manitoba who knew how to restart it to come in to the datacenter :)

though it sounds like BB10 has a much lower suck quotient

it almost sounds... dare I say..... usable :)

and now I'm hungry so I'm going to go find food and continue my quest for encryption tomorrow :-P

MikeyB

@voretaq7 Oh god, pre-10 BBs and BES are a fucking nightmare compared to BB10. I'll be the first to admit that.

voretaq7

@MikeyB yeah try doing "hosted exchange with BES" back before Exchange really knew how to handle multiple domains

the windows folks at $job[-1] were mighty creative

(and possibly clinically insane)

Skyhawk

Is it wrong for me to think that "hosted Exchange" is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea?

ewwhite

I think hosted exchange is weak.

Skyhawk

Even Microsoft can't do it right.

ewwhite

00:47

I just had a trading firm lost mail for a week because their hosted exchange provider had an outage.

voretaq7

@Skyhawk hosted email in general is a pretty awful idea. Trust someone else with what is arguably some of your company's most sensitive (and most legally exposed) data

Skyhawk

@ewwhite Right, and even a single on-premise server with a single internet connection isn't going to have a 7-day outage.

@voretaq7 Correct. So, unless the implementation of hosted e-mail totally kicks ass and the company feels it has nothing worth hiding and the relevant authorities approve and the cost of maintaining an e-mail server internally is not even remotely competitive (all of which apply to small financial institutions migrating to Google Apps), it's probably a terrible idea.

ewwhite

Which is why even my lowly produce clients host their own mail.

cole

$currentjob is looking to move to Office 365 - everyone in the Infrastructure group are like "this is a terrible idea"

Danila Ladner

yale is in pilot for office365

cole

00:57

about to kick off the pilot at my job too

and Lync

Danila Ladner

not going to well, people complain

Skyhawk

Comparison of Google Apps vs Office 365 uptime: cloudsherpas.com/partner-google/…

This would agree with what I've seen in the field.

No one ever complains about uptime issues with Google Apps. To put it nicely, Office 365 isn't like that.

Joel E Salas

@Skyhawk I always seem to spot the outages for google stuff

Skyhawk

@JoelESalas Howzat?

This guy figured that Google Apps had three nines and Office 365 had, um, one.

Obviously, he has an agenda, but I think he's right.

@JoelESalas In your case, hosted e-mail is out of the question. You've got to keep it up in that beautiful rack of yours.

Bob

@Skyhawk Internal email server? Not gonna happen here :\

Magellan

01:11

Somebody has to star skyhawk's last message.

MikeyB

@voretaq7 It's reasonable. Still less than BB. :P

Does anybody do ActiveSync at the desktop? (Don't know if it would make sense, just curious)

Shane Madden

01:25

@ScottPack Ahh, yeah.. that's a little tricky. I've got it set up as :datadir: '/etc/puppet/envs/%{environment}/hieradata' but you can't easily just throw a variable in for yours.

Danila Ladner

office365 uptime is terrible

i think like 3 5 hours outages for us last month

they are considering google apps if they will provide hiipa

Ryan Ries

Is it just me, or are Cisco VoIP phone headsets really complicated?

Mathias R. Jessen

@RyanRies Judging from my overall experience with Cisco, yes they probably are

Ryan Ries

Amplifiers, quick disconnect cables, direct connect cables, RJ11 to RCA to 2.5 to 3.5 to WTF?!?!?

Oh and don't forget the handset lifter!

It seems crazy to me that they haven't just... put a god damned headphone jack on their phones by this point.

Michael Hampton

01:45

Cisco VoIP phones are about 75% vendor lock-in bullshit.

ewwhite

So why do people put up with cracked phone screens?

Journeyman Geek

lol

ewwhite

Pride is preventing wife from fixing this.

cole

@ewwhite because they're cheap?

Pride?

MikeyB

@ewwhite If she doesn't have to fix it, it's not broken?

ewwhite

01:49

She says, "see, you can see MOST of the screen."

She has had it for a month.

We put clear tape on the screen to hold the shattered glass in.

MikeyB

@ewwhite Only screens I've ever had crack were Playbooks that the kids dropped. Crack runs all the way across the screen - can only see if it you look at it sideways.

ewwhite

And to stop it from slicing her hands and ear.

MikeyB

@ewwhite What the hell are your screens made of? Candy glass?

Michael Hampton

Chimpanzee glass.

Should have gotten one with Gorilla Glass instead...

ewwhite

iPhones are fragile

Seemingly.

MikeyB

01:54

Two big cracks running across the screen.

Michael Hampton

@ewwhite They last longer if you don't throw them at brick walls or run over them.

MikeyB

Can barely see them. None of this "I have to worry about shredding my face" bullshit.

ewwhite

Wife dropped onto concrete.

Michael Hampton

And what's the big deal? There's about 300 little shops in Chinatown that will replace the screen in about 30 minutes.

ewwhite

Not for the iphone5s

Michael Hampton

01:56

Or you get the accidental damage insurance and use it.

Mark Henderson

@MichaelHampton I had a phone go through the washing machine once. Got a new one for free, and sold the broken one on ebay for $350

Insurance ftw

Michael Hampton

@MarkHenderson Strange, they always make me return the broken one. They do pay the shipping though.

I've had to replace a phone maybe once a year or so...

Mark Henderson

@MichaelHampton I asked them if they want it back, but apparently no. They did however ask me to destroy it

MikeyB

Oh sweet. This is how you jenga

Mark Henderson

But they never asked me for any IMEI number etc, so I figure that ebay is as good as destroyed ;)

MikeyB

01:59

►

Michael Hampton

@MarkHenderson Ah, must be third party insurance. Verizon sends me the new phone and a shipping label and instructs me to send the old phone back in that same box.

Mark Henderson

@MichaelHampton Ah yeah it was with my home and contents insurance. The phone company wanted $5/month for the life of the phone. For home and contents I paid $55/year and got everything portable covered anywhere in the country

Phones, cameras, and jewelry < $AU1000 in value

Michael Hampton

@MarkHenderson Oh yes, that's a much better deal. I'll have to look into that.

Andrew

wtf my computer can't connect to communities.netapp.com

Shane Madden

@Andrew Needs more i.

Mark Henderson

02:02

@MichaelHampton I don't know what kind of premiums you guys pay in the US though, but I'm paying $660/year for $120,000 of contents insurance (with portable items). That seems pretty expensive.

I also have $450,000 of building insurance that costs $350

Andrew

@ShaneMadden still can't connect... I swear my install is borked.

SSL has been flaky for I don't know how long, used to do it with gravatar too.

Joel E Salas

Does anyone else mirror EPEL?

Shane Madden

@MarkHenderson Wow.. yeah, that's a lot cheaper than here.

Michael Hampton

@JoelESalas No, but I'm thinking about it.

Mark Henderson

@ShaneMadden ... really? I thought I was paying a lot

I've been told my whole life we get ripped off on insurance premiums

Mathias R. Jessen

02:05

@Andrew it sends the CA certificate in the chain ... maybe your computer doesn't like being told who to trust

Shane Madden

@MarkHenderson My homeowners insurance is a little under $1400/year for a $300k house (and it covers something like $150k worth of possessions)

Though I certainly wouldn't be able to claim a busted cell phone on it.

Mark Henderson

@ShaneMadden We might be paying similar amounts then; I'm paying a total of $1100 for home and contents

Andrew

@MathiasR.Jessen I've tested my Firefox profile on another machine, pretty convinced it's my Ubuntu install

Mathias R. Jessen

@Andrew I don't know have Firefox on Ubuntu handles revokation checking, but I've had a number of issues with Firefox on Windows with GoDaddy's CRL DP's

just thinking aloud

Andrew

@MathiasR.Jessen I've tested my Firefox install on another (same release) Ubuntu

Scott Pack

02:15

@ShaneMadden I can't easily variable mine because of how they're laid out. It followed the old best practice. I should migrate it to a more modern file structure.

Mathias R. Jessen

@MarkHenderson How do you do that? Write good long answer that makes sense in < 5 min o_O

Scott Pack

@ShaneMadden There's probably a fair amount of modernizing I could probably do to clean things up. Our sysadmins are in the midst of getting everything up to 3.x, which includes building a new environment, so the intent right now is to merge our systems so I can just retire my puppetmaster and dashboard.

@ShaneMadden Definitely discourages me from doing too much fiddling. :)

Mark Henderson

@MathiasR.Jessen I have a reasonably good grasp of the english language

Shane Madden

@ScottPack Heh, fair enough

Mark Henderson

I also write a 2 paragraph answer, then remember something else and edit it in later on

Mathias R. Jessen

02:19

@MarkHenderson I gotta shape up my english. I do that too, but I often get carried away by my own train of thought... then stuff like this happens: serverfault.com/questions/559022/… I'm not even sure I understand what I just wrote

Mark Henderson

@MathiasR.Jessen haha I have moments like that too. By the end of the question I've answered something that has nothing to do with what the person asked

Mathias R. Jessen

Exactly :D

Scott Pack

@ShaneMadden I am really liking the whole idea of it, though. I'm seeing some really cool meta classifications we could use for configuration.

Shane Madden

@ScottPack Yeah - having the flexibility to set parameters based on any fact or variable is much better than old node classifications.

Scott Pack

Quite right. We had also been struggling with a good way to enforce different configuration levels, like the Level 1 or Level 2 CIS Benchmarks, and hadn't come up with one. If we set up our hierarchies right this could also address that need.

Ryan Ries

02:47

OMG: imgur.com/a/c5cr8

Mark Henderson

serverfault.com/users/1375/womble from Arrow used to hang out here and really knows his shit, although I haven't seen him around in a long time. — Mark Henderson 2 mins ago

Scott Pack

I can't remember the last time I saw something that nerdy and I hang out on IT chatrooms on Saturday nights.

Mark Henderson

This saddens me. Womble and TomTom together on a question was a sight to be seen

Scott Pack

Oh wait, this was nerdier.

apartmenttherapy.com/star-trek-bachelor-pad-84431

Joel E Salas

I think my gf might get a job in tech! is this awesome [y/n]

Mark Henderson

02:57

@JoelESalas N

Andrew

thedailywtf.com/Articles/Gone-Phishing.aspx

Mark Henderson

Because then you'll never want to talk about work

Joel E Salas

@MarkHenderson Why N? Will she get fat and ornery and tell me to rtfm?

Mark Henderson

@JoelESalas Haha no, actually I dunno

Maybe it would be cool

Or maybe she'll run away with the CTO

Magellan

evenin' gents.

Mathias R. Jessen

03:02

evening

aaaaand g'night

Magellan

g'nite? My shift just started.

voretaq7

@Skyhawk I've heard some stories of data loss on Google Apps. Uptime never seems to be a problem though

Andrew

> 3) I found those pictures of Mark. Y'know, the one with the Thanksgiving turkey and the bulldozer timing belt.

2

Wesley

03:35

@Magellan Herrow. How's life with a stable job in a decent workplace? =)

Magellan

@Wesley Pretty good. Almost as good as spending a 5 day weekend with family that live in the actual Surf City in California.

That was pretty sweet.

Wesley

@Magellan Woo!

I also gave your cat a hat.

Magellan

@Wesley I noticed. Gonna snag that from Meta and upload it to Gravatar.

Seem to have mis-placed my USB key with my Keepass encryption key on it though. =(

Wesley

I'm thinking the house's 20 year old fleabag is not long for this world.

@Magellan ERGH

Magellan

@Wesley That's pretty old. Our oldest is 17.5.

Wesley

03:39

@Magellan Yeah, it's strange. It's like once they get past 10 - 12, they last another decade.

Mark Henderson

@Wesley I'd say it's done well to last that long

Wesley

Last cat cratered at 9. Thing was fine, then stopped eating, next thing we know it was a sack of cancer and had to be put down fast. =/

This one outlived it over twice the age.

@MarkHenderson Especially since I'm not sure if I love it or hate it.

Thing is always vomiting on something at the worst times.

Magellan

@Wesley yeah, Lady's previous cat got a vicious case of cancer at 11. I think the next animal is a couple more years out, but is probably going to be a Aussie Shepherd puppy.

We saw one down there at the mall that was 9 weeks old and ridiculously cute.

Mark Henderson

@Wesley Yeah ours got cancer at 8 years too

Wesley

@Magellan I'd like my next animal to be a dog. I think I've had it with cats.

@MarkHenderson =/

Mark Henderson

03:41

We gave it away when we moved to a friend. We hadn't taken it to the vet in about 8 years, so she took it and the vet said "Yeah, this cat has shocking skin cancer and needs to be put down"

It was a bright white cat, so it would just laze in the sun all day

Magellan

@Wesley yep. they're a little more work, but they're better than cats in the long run.

Mark Henderson

@Magellan ... an aussie shepherd?

Never heard of it

Magellan

Cats, when you get right down to it, are nasty little passive-aggressive creatures.

Mark Henderson

Australian Shepherd

The Australian shepherd, commonly known as an Aussie, is a breed of dog that was developed on ranches in the western United States. Despite its name, the breed was not developed in Australia, but rather in the United States where they were seen in the West as early as the 1800s. The breed rose gradually in popularity with the boom of western riding after World War I. They became known to the general public through rodeos, horse shows, and Disney movies made for television. For many years, Aussies have been valued by stockmen for their versatility and trainability. They have a similar lo...

Wesley

@Magellan I want a bitey one.

Has to weight at least 50 pounds.

I'm thinking Doberman. Or a rescued greyhound.

Magellan

03:44

@MarkHenderson Yes, exactly.

@Wesley Ugh. Those guys will break your heart. Most of them don't last but 2-3 years after they are retired.

Wesley

@Magellan Oh. =(

Magellan

Honestly, I'd get a great dane. They're great for small apartments since they only need a little bit of exercise each day. Total couch potatoes.

Scott Pack

Assuming your apartment is large enough to support the square footage of both one of those and one of you.

Wesley

@Magellan Yeah, I like what I've seen of them!

MikeyB

reddit.com/r/cableporn/comments/1r8ecb/…

Wesley

03:46

Eat, poop, sleep. Oh, the life.

Magellan

@ScottPack My friends have one that doesn't get off his dog bed except to eat and manage bodily functions.

And to bark at the UPS man

stupid cat

Wesley

@MikeyB Huh, interesting. What exactly is "extremely high profile" though. Are we talking NYSE?

Magellan

it's sitting on my arms and my hands are pinned to the keyboard by the cat's weight.

Scott Pack

@Magellan I'm allowing for that.

MikeyB

@Wesley Dunno, but it sounds like.

Scott Pack

03:48

They want to hire someone who's gifted at crimping fibre optics?

Magellan

@ScottPack Well, yes. I suppose if you're living in an 80 square foot Manhattan closet, a Dane wouldn't work well there either.

Scott Pack

@Magellan I'm thinking my 2100 sqft house would be just big enough for the 3 of us and a Dane.

Magellan

@ScottPack FFS. I live in half of that and we have two babies on the way.

Mark Henderson

@ScottPack 200m2 - thats a reasonable size

Magellan

@Wesley Much better. The hat is there now.

Wesley

03:50

@Magellan mew

Scott Pack

FFS

Magellan

In fact, the pictured stupid cat in the gravatar is the one siting on my hands.

@ScottPack Dude. Because I know about 50 people that would be totally serious with that statement.

Scott Pack

@MarkHenderson Plus a basement, but it's not finished so it doesn't count.

ewwhite

04:07

Arrrgh. Held hostage in a comedy club...

I wanna go hoooome.

Michael Hampton

04:18

OK, so who the hell do I complain to if Amazon overbilled me?

Wesley

@ewwhite You gotta explain this one.

Mark Henderson

@MichaelHampton Amazon?

@Wesley It works like this: Most comedy clubs aren't very good

Wesley

@MarkHenderson Yeah, his 7 foot tall hooker took two $20 bills instead of just one!

MikeyB

@MichaelHampton Amazon first, credit card company second. Standard fare?

Mark Henderson

@Wesley Whoah, 7 foot. I like a tall woman, but that's pushing it

Wesley

04:24

@MarkHenderson Yeah, that would pose some anatomical challenges that I'm not comfortable thinking about.

Andrew

@ewwhite vSphere question: if I clone an online VM, what impact does that have on the running VM?

Wesley

That's some straight up new math right there.

Almost negative 100 emails!

Enough of this. Treadmill time.

Michael Hampton

Oh, I was billed for almost 4x the IOs that I usually have on EC2. Though I didn't deploy anything new, no services got out of hand, etc. I think this month I'm finally going to give them the finger and move.

voretaq7

04:49

@Wesley fucking Exchange "message recall" :-P

Andrew

@voretaq7 doesn't exist, not in RFCs

ewwhite

@andrew wassup

I'm at second city with wife and inlaws.

Andrew

@ewwhite not second wife I hope

ewwhite

Nope

What is the question about vmwareere

Andrew

05:06

@ewwhite so, if I clone a VM while it's online it will be only up to date with when I started the clone... if the original VM is online, will there be very much performance impact?

(if so, I can clone from a SAN snapshot & do it powered off)

also, if I resize a SAN datastore, do I need any magic in vSphere to tell it that it's been resized? or just hit refresh?

Mark Henderson

@Andrew I think you have to expand the datastore

We did it a while back and I

m fairly sure we had to click "expand"

Andrew

@MarkHenderson hmm otherwise I might be able to use the NetApp vSphere plugin to do it in one hit

ewwhite

@Andrew You can clone a running VM, but why would you?

As far as LUN expansion, no issues with NFS...

and doing it from a block LUN is doable as well

ewwhite

05:32

@MichaelHampton are you going to move to MY cloud?

Michael Hampton

05:44

@ewwhite Naw... think I'm gonna do it myself

►

Joel E Salas

@ewwhite You don't have a cloud! You have an old PowerMac with a bunch of external drives and a cloud drawn on it!

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