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@Iain @freiheit But not @WesleyDavid since he doesn't even own a bike... When Strava shows you "Ridden by bla bla bla at 10:11am on Thursday, 07/18/201" is that time the start or the end of the ride?
Yeah, some people need to be shot...
What is callisto? — muncherelli 1 min ago
LOL
ok, that wins the idiot of the day price
19:14
@MichaelHampton That's awesome
So, I feel dirty.
@Cole Take a shower.
Manager made me do RAID5 across 10 1.2TB disks.
@Cole should done raid 0!
19:15
or raid 4...
You did make manager fully aware that he's responsible for the inevitable data loss.
for recording meetings, so people who aren't there can still enjoy them
@MichaelHampton that I did, in writing.
Sometimes it makes sense, like if it's a place to dump temporary data
@Basil it's not.
19:16
@DennisKaarsemaker ohhhhh neato
@Cole Local storage, I assume?
@Basil yar
@Cole In that case, sit back, relax and wait for the inevitable. And hopefully you will no longer be working there when it happens.
Dell R620
@MichaelHampton fingers crossed. Interview on Tuesday.
Raid 6 costs you one disk and a little bit of random write performance. The disk is cheap, and the performance hit is more than hidden by a tiny write cache.
19:17
@Cole diddnt you just start a new job?
Your manager is a fool
@Basil Yes.
@MattBear 8 months ago, yes.
@Tanner it is. And incredibly good. It picks up whispers from 50 feet away. It's already been dubbed "prism"
@MattBear 8 months is like four years in @Cole-time. =)
3
@MattBear but working with NT, 2000 and Lotus Domino is not what I signed up for. If I want my career to go in the shitter I'll stay
19:18
@Cole Man, that must suck. =/
I'm personally torn. Some people tell me to stay for longevity, but then others say don't sacrifice being miserable/shit on/ruining your career for longevity.
@Cole I'd be careful of that mindset. Obsolete technology will always play a large role in the largest shops. They have the most inertia to overcome to refresh with newer technology, but the large shops pay the best and have the most money
@Basil hm..how do I put this.
This place does not give a shit about technology.
We are pretty modern for a 1000 person IT shop, but we have pockets of embarrassingly old software
@Basil 15-20 year old OS's?
19:19
They do not want to upgrade anything.
@Cole Why not
@JoelESalas no money.
@Cole That's a different problem. Still, the experience you gain on Lotus could well make you worth a ton of money to a big company trying to get off Domino
Don't they understand the cost of technical debt
@Basil I would never want to do that project, I'd shoot myself.
19:21
@JoelESalas they're already technically bankrupt. The technical debt collector has already given up on them.
Any company worth it's salt isn't on Domino.
@Cole Also I thought you were finding a new company
@Basil Is handling an NT migration something that will look good to future employers?
Old Hardware is an interesting specialty. There is huge value in being able to resurrect an old piece of industrial equipment. Yeah, they are old, but the equipment is still serviceable.
@MikeAWood they're VMs - not even hardware.
19:22
We use Domino- it's on its way out, but if someone applies to a core position here and can say that they've had experience with it, they'll get a better offer than otherwise
@Tanner In the sense that it shows you can work toward bettering a bad situation, regardless of how bad it is, yes.
@Basil Let me ask you this
hum... well, then you are lucky. The last time I had to resurrect an NT4 machine we because it was attached to a 15 year old $2M printing press.. It was a giant bucket of suck!
@Basil Hm, interesting.
Nevermind, it's irrelevant
@Tanner The real money in IT isn't in small business or cloud, it's in banks, government, transportation, etc.
19:23
@Basil this is manufacturing.
@Cole Small, though?
@Basil and produce
Produce.
@Basil no, 6000+ people, 80 locations.
19:24
@Cole im gonna agree with you there, nt and 2000 are too old, and too niche to be worth much expierence wise. In my shop, if you applied listing those as expierence, I might not even look at you, unless you followed it up with 2003, 2008 etc
I'm joining a Windows XP PC to a domain for $200/hr...
3
@ewwhite lol
@ewwhite . . . every man has his price.
@ewwhite How long to you expect it to take?
19:25
@Basil I forget you work for a railroad. I work for an intermodal company. Definitely not big money in IT here.
My name is @Cole, and I have the shittest job ever!
@84104 I'm 17 minutes in.
@ewwhite Is this an NT4 domain or something?
and wasting time here, at $3/min
@Tanner I suspect that a relatively short list of shops spend a disproportionately large fraction of the overall IT market.
19:27
$3/min - holy hell
ankle keeps hurting...stupid running.
Had a coworker tell me I was stupid today, that was nice.
In my city, the biggest accounts account for like 80% of the revenue for the last two places I worked (where I was designing storage solutions for sales people)
@Cole I got called a communist the other day, I wasn't sure if I should be offended or take it as a compliment.
@MikeAWood lol wow
19:30
@MikeAWood you should have asked: "Lenin or Stalin"?
@Cole Back in the early 2000s I worked with a guy from S. Korea that was ex-military there and was now doing desktop support at Worldcom. If he got pissed at a user (typically a woman) he would say "I keee you"..."I keeee your famlee" (I kill you...I kill your family). The guy was like 4ft 6)
3
@TheCleaner lol finally, someone shorter than me
I has a question. For server deployment - do you people have procedures to follow? Even a simple checklist? Or just wing it?
@dawud Considering it was related to a conversation about Japanese products and my occasional support of them, I didn't have the patience to explain why I wasn't sure if it was a compliment or not...
@Cole Yes, we have documented procedures. And the documentation is both wrong and incomplete.
3
@cole I wing it, but I am a very small shop and shouldn't be used as a best practices example....ever...period..
19:33
@MichaelHampton do...do you work here?
@Cole depends on the environment...but for production purposes I always had a short checklist along with a run sheet of the config/ip/apps/etc. for future input into the asset list.
@MichaelHampton ARE YOU SECRETLY MY BOSS!? HIS NAME IS MIKE AS WELL.
@Cole I thought you were asking a rhetorical question.
@Cole its documented... somewhere lol, but I'm the only one that builds servers normally, and I deploy from images.
@Cole cobbler+puppet
19:35
Erg 131 Windows Updates.
ah, windows...
Another Patch Tuesday? WILL THE MADNESS EVER END?
I'm just curious since we do have change controls - but no one ever submits that stuff.
@MichaelHampton fresh install W2K8 R2
@MichaelHampton You could run XP...
@voretaq7 I said I wanted the madness to END...
19:37
@MichaelHampton windows XP is proven technology!
Windows Xtra Proven
@MattBear You neglected to mention exactly what was proven.
If you start an XP install on SP1, support will end before you finish updating.
5
@MichaelHampton its proven to be so good and solid that they dont even need to support it anymore, its perfect and unbreakable!
@MattBear I see. Well, I think I should introduce you to some of my friends. Pay no attention to their white lab coats...
19:39
@MichaelHampton NOOOO I AM NOT GOING BACK THERE!!!!
@MichaelHampton "They're coming to take me away haha! To the funny farm!"
@MichaelHampton they did things to me.... shudder horrible horrible things!
that I enjoyed, very much :D
anyone ever use HP Load Runner
Oh, funny story time! This happened today.
@ewwhite Lode Runner? I think i played that on the Commodore 64...
19:46
Client wants to use my anti-spam appliance, so I ask what the A record is for their email server. They give it to me, and I set it up in the appliance. I notice that there's no SMTP server listening though - so I nmap it. Then I realize "WAIT A MINUTE... !" Their public A record for their email server was resolving to 127.0.0.2.
@WesleyDavid Don't do business with spammers....
@WesleyDavid wat
@Tanner I don't even. I told them "Your MX records go to me, I filter, then forward down to your mail server. What's your mail server's public address"
I thought that was simple enough.
Apparently not.
@WesleyDavid Derp.
It's fun to try and explain Lync to people. I usually get the "what's the point of this again?" :)
19:57
@TheCleaner Lync? What's the point of this again?
see...even advanced users. ;)
Wasn't it you @MichaelHampton that said "Ubuntu isn't a server"?
@TheCleaner I used Lync at my last job ...I hated it
I finally decided on the MacBook I'm going to get, and I even get to use Thunderbolt to transfer the data!
They banned skype because people were abusing it for non-work things ...so they switched to Lync which was completely monitored.
Some people actually got fired for saying uh ...less than appropriate things on certain chats
Oh. I'm quite sure I definitely don't need that Lync shit, then.
20:01
@NathanC "Shake it, madam" ?
I dunno what was said, but yeah.
All of my nopes
Bad enough the NSA is listening in!
owait...
anyway, 4pm, so i'm outta here. later
The NSA can't fire you, only kill you.
Log Your Naughty Chats?
@MichaelHampton they can kill you by firing you (out of a cannon, into the sun).
Load Runner? Wild E. Coyote never caught him, did he? Meep Meep.
oh..wait...
20:09
@tombull89 Wile E. Coyote
@WesleyDavid close enough
@tombull89 That's what she said.
She only said "close enough" to make you feel better about it..
@Ward I believe with Strava, the time in "Ridden by Blah Bla at 9:23am on ..." is the start time (not sure if anybody answered that yet and I just got back from lunch)
@freiheit Start
20:18
I just let a user remote in to my PC so she could print a stack of papers for me to scan and email to her, and it made sense because of our fucked print system. I am now dead inside.
worth it though
@Tanner Do you feel dirty now? Do you need a shower? Followed by a bath, and then another shower? Can you scrub hard enough?
@freiheit I need whisky. Lots and lots of whisky.
The ink, it won't come off!
@Tanner Good call. Cleaning your outsides and thoroughly disinfecting your insides is a good plan.
@freiheit See, we don't need to worry about that because our carpet of chest hair keeps the filth from touching our manly bodies.
20:19
@Tanner They've got a laser procedure for that...
Hug me @freiheit
@WesleyDavid I really don't have much chest hair. Plenty of leg hair, but not much on the chest.
@freiheit D=
@Tanner How do you not have a .pdf printer?
@84104 I do. It doesn't work for that particular... 'procedure'.
I'm not sure exactly what the problem is. Sometimes a document gets sent to the print queue, disappears, and never prints or errors.
@Tanner Printers are evil.
@84104 This is the evil of IBM iSeries, Citrix, and printers combined. It is most unholy.
@Tanner you're giving me nightmares over here... I DO NOT miss Citrix..
The end result is a stack of barcodes used to separate paper work, which then goes in to a scanner, which then emails it to a Domino server, which puts it in to a document imaging system. And thus, the evil cycle is complete.
20:26
@Tanner And ye, shall the administrators of these systems be cursed, even unto the seventh generation, for the things involved are wicked, and yet more so when connected. And Darkness shall cover the land for the toner shall not be dismissed.
@84104 lmao
@Tanner Did I read that right that... they're printing things in order to scan them in?
@freiheit Yes, you read that right.
holy fuck capistrano sucks fucking donkey balls
Bonus points this time though for me printing it out, scanning it, emailing it, and the user printing it out again, scanning it, and emailing it.
20:27
@Tanner I'm glad somebody has some shit that's a tad more insane than the shit I deal with. Sorry it's you, though. :)
@freiheit haha, it's madness. Also some people in billing will print out the invoices, write on them, and scan them again. I've given up trying to explain it to people...
@Tanner At least tell me that it's not a flatbed scanner.
@84104 No, thank God. We drop $2.5k on each scanner, so it least it, y'know, scans stuff...
@Tanner Gotta spend that kind of money on a scanner to get images high quality enough to still be legible after a dozen iterations of print, scan, print, right?
@freiheit Yup. Especially the hand written pages that have been crumpled up by truckers. It's good times.
20:38
@Tanner Color scanner, so you can tell whether it was ketchup or mustard smeared on the page?
@freiheit Or blood.
@84104 Face shot you feng shui breaking son of a parallel cable!!
1
Q: Message Queuing vs. Load Balancing. I don't truly understand the difference

Jason ClarkHelp me to understand something. I've look at several enterprise application architectures, and I notice that several of them use a Message Queue service, like ActiveMQ or RabbitMQ. I have surface-level knowledge of what message queuing servers do, but I don't really understand why I would choose...

@MichaelHampton How can you tell the difference between dried blood and dried BBQ sauce?
@freiheit I would know if I was eating BBQ.
20:41
@MichaelHampton And you never use BBQ sauce when eating undercooked human. right.
@WesleyDavid I'm sorry? QQ
@84104 Well you should be!
If I hated you enough to kill you, I sure as hell am not going to like you enough to eat you.
Look at you, breaking up the avatars with your random gravatar nonsense.
@WesleyDavid Look at you, not having a bike.
20:44
@84104 I'm getting there...
Don't take this the wrong way, but if you don't understand the difference between the two technologies or where you would apply them you're not really in a position to be evaluating either as a solution. If you're trying to decide which to use based on what they do you're approaching the engineering problem backwards - The question you should be asking is I need my environment to do X, what technology enables that?, not I have a technology that does Y, where/how can I use it in my environment?voretaq7 33 secs ago
@WesleyDavid Dude. Seriously. I bout a goddamn plane faster than you're buying this bike.
2
@WesleyDavid So you've arranged for purchase of a bike and you'll be picking it up on Monday?
@voretaq7 Dude. I say "dude" to express disapproval. ಠ_ಠ
@ChrisS Don't make me put your hand in the fishtank, bro...
20:51
@freiheit Color scanner but we send in black and white. Color tends to hit the attachment limit when you're sending hundreds of pages... People are going to have fun when we switch to Gmail and they have a 30GB limit.
@Tanner mmhmm.... y'all gonna suck those raw eggs through a bendy straw, or a coffee stirrer? :)
@voretaq7 My users are more the 'bendy straw' type...
2
@Tanner Can't you spend more to get more mailbox space?
@freiheit Probably can, probably will. Most certainly will hear about the user running out of space before doing it.
Where is @mdmarra?
stuff needs fixin'
20:57
@Ward It's the start time app.strava.com/activities/68095000 cc @ewwhite @freiheit @WesleyDavid (get a bike)
@Iain go faster!
@ChrisS you want the link to the spin off reference ?
@ewwhite big group (26) tonight so were a bit slow in places
@Iain Yeah, if you have it
@ChrisS I'll dig it out
@ChrisS it was an interesting way of spinning it I thought
playing "guess the theme song" the wife didn't appreciate it when my hint for "the good, the bad and the ugly" was "me, you and your mom"
21:04
@voretaq7 that's a homework question - see the last comment
@freiheit Some Monday...
Where did the chat flags come from and whence to they go?
Do we have a flag spammer in our room or were they for another room?
rofl message queueing vs load balancing
hahahahahaha
#!/bin/sh
/usr/bin/yum -R 120 -e 0 -d 0 -y update yum
/usr/bin/yum -R 10 -e 0 -d 0 -y update
@ewwhite you really need to learn proper update management...
21:11
@ewwhite BURN! Burn the heretics in the FIRES of HELL!
@DennisKaarsemaker This is from a PDF a client sent us... for an appliance that will sit in doctors offices.
and they applied the "hardening" to their application servers in OUR environment...
and now monitoring and many other things do not work.
heh, he said hardening
viagra is better hardening than that.
@DennisKaarsemaker I should try some.
@ewwhite don't you have an unlimited supply via brazzers?
I do not.
21:17
In mRemoteNG is there a way to pass a CTRL-ESC, or CTRL-ALT-DELETE to the system you are connected to?
@ewwhite And worst of all they forgot the --obsoletes option.
Sigh
@ewwhite So they rawdogged some updates and now you're boned?
@JoelESalas "SNMP doesn't work no more!"
surprise!
21:26
heh using wall to converse with our SugarCRM contractor
@MattBear Have you never heard of talk?
As long as we're digging out Unix commands last seen in the early 90's...
ytalk
Yeah, I think I preferred ytalk.
my coworkers don't like to share passwords over Hipchat, so they'll sometimes use talk/ytalk to do it.
@MichaelHampton were working on the same box, and its easier then email lol
21:28
"Excessive Heat Warning"? These weather alerts are getting crazy.
@MattBear Oh. Well it's easy. Contractor types talk matt. You type talk dipshit. Then you two are in a split screen conversation.
Excessive EAT Warning!
means your getting fat
@MichaelHampton eh... its working
@ewwhite screen -x works for that too.
@DennisKaarsemaker they like tmux here.
my effin' day
Some people must have a lot of time on their hands to ponder things
-2
Q: Is more memory better, or more DIMMs

TomCDell PowerEdge T610, came with 4x 2GB UDIMMs. I replaced those with 2x 8GB RDIMMs. Filled the empty slots with blanks. I just want to make sure that I'm not hurting performance by replacing all 4. I do realize 4x 8GB RDIMMs would be better than 2.

@ewwhite works too. Ever tried dtach? Found out about it the other day
21:37
naw
21:51
@ewwhite @Iain Apparently this is what happens if you start mountain biking: vimeo.com/70460790
@TheCleaner How is that a dupe of the question its linked to?
Ok, so the answer is contained in the duped question, but the question isn't actually the same
@MarkHenderson of course the obvious part of the question... is 16 gb dual channel faster then 8gb four channel
the dual channel vs four channel (if the server supports it) is moot, because he now has double the RAM anyway, so any performance increase from 4 chips is much less then the 8 GB increase in RAM with the 2 chips
@MarkHenderson 3+1= 2+2= different questions same answer
@MattBear Assuming you are using all 8Gb
If you only have a 2Gb footprint it doens't matter how much you have
might also matter WHICH slots he is putting them in in a dual or quad core setup where certain slots are tied to certain CPUs.. (But I am giving him the benefit of the doubt that he knows about that)
22:03
@MarkHenderson that is true
@MikeAWood Also in the R710/720's if you use any of the "D" slots you automatically lost half your bandwidth. Something about an extender being used to access memory in those DIMMs
@MarkHenderson half the bandwidth in the "D" slots? or half your bandwidth overall?
@MarkHenderson, I am not familiar with Dell enough to comment, but there certainly are lots of reasons in this question to RTFM before asking the question. (though admittedly I hate that as an answer)
@MattBear Overall, because they all have to run at the same speed
suck my balls!
Thanks - this doesn't answer the question asked - please use the comments section for responding to comments. — Paul 27 mins ago
22:18
Give him a link to Intel's CPU product list. Tell him the hardware acceleration solution is to buy a faster CPU.
These days, we don't worry about RAID calculation overhead, right?
Maybe in 1999...
It might be an issue if your workload is highly CPU bound, but in that case you'd want hardware RAID anyway.
Well you might if you were using a software based solution and you CPU was heavily over-taxed. Almost certainly doesn't matter.
@MichaelHampton Like RAIDing a pair of Fusion-io controllers?
:)
@ewwhite Now that's just silly. They have their own redundancy built-in. But if you're getting them for free, then...
22:21
@MichaelHampton He was going to go RAID0 maybe?
I still want the GPS coordinates of the dumpster they're being thrown into.
@MichaelHampton Is it silly?
@ewwhite What the hell does he mean by "works with mdadm disks"?
He wants a hardware RAID controller than he can manipulate via mdadm?
Fakeraid, maybe?
@MarkHenderson I think he is imaginng something like a crypto offload board. Something that magically augments the cpu when handling crypto stuff before AES got built into most cpus.
@ewwhite how much longer until you pass me? Should be in the next couple days?
I guess it could be today even.
22:29
@Zoredache uh oh.
Nobody's counting. @MichaelHampton made me give up my whoring
@MarkHenderson I think he wants to switch his software raid to hardware raid without needing to do any data migration.
22:41
@MichaelHampton You never chimed in on the Fusion-io debate.
@ewwhite Meh. If the whole card fails outright, it's because it got fried by a lightning strike or a Supermicro motherboard.
Supermicro is awesome!
@DennisKaarsemaker You have a death wish?
@MichaelHampton yes, I wish the death of oracle.
5
@DennisKaarsemaker In that case, you should preach "Supermicro is awesome" at Oracle.
22:54
neh, they already have their own broken hardware
Someone complains about an issue. Blasts everyone. Check their email address. Not [email protected]? Ignore it.
@MichaelHampton It'll be in an HP!!!
@ewwhite The only thing you have to fear is... fear itself. And your coworker.
@MichaelHampton SO don't RAID it?
because it does seem like a waste to run something like mdadm on two Fusion-io controllers.
@ewwhite From what little I've seen of it, I don't really see the point.
23:00
ZFS doesn't leave me feeling so cheap.
@MichaelHampton because you view it as a controller, not a disk?
@ewwhite More or less. Do you put two RAID controllers in a box?
@MichaelHampton Nope.
And do they fail?
but if the RAID controller fails, my data is still on the disk. WIth the Fusion-io... I don't know what happens.
I don't either. Which is why I haven't tried to answer the question or come up with a fully formed opinion yet.
23:03
@MichaelHampton You'd think Fusion-io would have an opinion.
@WesleyDavid You could work here!
@ewwhite I'd think they would want you to buy more cards.
@ewwhite So how long until you have di2 hydraulic disc brakes on a bike?
@freiheit no desire. I really don't like disc brakes on non CX/touring/gravel bikes.
@ewwhite but your CX bike needs hydraulic disc brakes... ;)
@freiheit not until the brake hoods look normal
23:17
@ewwhite I'll bet Volagi adds them as an option pretty fast. They have hydraulic discs now, but via a crazy little "cable to hydraulic conversion box" thingy...
it's like the Linux kernel! stop messing with it!!!
Do you guys feel like Linux has become less stable?
@ewwhite I've been running mainline on my workstation for years. It's always slightly unstable. If you want stable, you get a stable kernel...
@MichaelHampton I used to have RH7.3 and RH8 and even EL4 and EL5 systems that ran for years!
and now, the EL6 stuff is full of memory leaks, kernel bugs, hardware compatibility issues...
@ewwhite My RHEL5/6 boxes just keep running until I reboot them... Last time I had a crash it involved a VMware cluster migration not allocating enough resources to the dev VMs.
@Jacob oy (:
23:21
@freiheit Maybe I run into alllll of the bugs
@ewwhite Are they unfixed bugs?
(apparently if RHEL doesn't get any CPU cycles for over 60 seconds it gets really grumpy about it, assumes something went terribly wrong, and sends a confusing email as it reboots)
@ewwhite Well, you do tend to have systems that don't get updates for years...
@MichaelHampton weird stuff like nslcd and sssd bugs
@ewwhite Ok, I did have a lot of trouble with sssd when I first tried to use it...
@ewwhite That stuff is still being actively developed. Hell, they're still adding major new features to sssd.
23:23
You can tell sssd isn't a good idea just by the awful name. ;)
I got sssd working well... but it was only because nslcd was memory leaking and causing crashes... server crashes...
so I got client to move 300+ systems to sssd...
and now the sssd systems are experiencing memory leaks... but at a much slower rate :)
I mean, how can you talk about sssd over coffee? Is it "ess ess ess dee" or is it "ssssssssssssduh"?
client has resorted to Monit and/or cron jobs.
@ewwhite So if you throw some more ram and them and patch/reboot quarterly, you never notice! ;)
@freiheit moar reboots would mask it
23:25
(well, I also would have puppet ensuring services are running)
@ewwhite It's not a specific plan to mask problems, but my servers pretty much all get a quarterly reboot.
@ewwhite Can't help you with memory leaks. That's 100% Dev.
23:44
@ewwhite Their standards are that low?
@WesleyDavid :(
@ewwhite You gotta have some "flexible" standards to employ me. =P

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