The Comms Room

WesleyDavid

16:01

@voretaq7 Excuse me? Nobody gonna be taken the crown of this tabbycat's head! ::two snaps in a circle::

@ChrisS And for those of us afflicted with the bug to stay self employed, we are very aware of the tax burden that most people have whisked away from them by employers.

voretaq7

@WesleyDavid . . . I'm really more impressed that you can do a circle-snap without opposable thumbs than I am at your gratuitous flamboyance.

WesleyDavid

@voretaq7 Polydactyl want a cracker?

voretaq7

Also you guys apparently Sunday is NYC Pride. This is like the first year in...really as far back as I can remember... that I can actually plan to NOT be in manhattan for it so I don't try to walk across town and stumble into a parade!

coding_corgi

YO yo yo!

WesleyDavid

@coding_corgi hiss

Claws @voretaq7's pant legs and perches on shoulder

voretaq7

16:05

@WesleyDavid Yo cat, these are new pants!

WesleyDavid

Wait, ChrisS is taller. leaps to @ChrisS

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@coding_corgi fetch!

voretaq7

You know how long it took me to find pants that actually fit right?!

WesleyDavid

Wait, Zypher is taller. Leaps to @Zypher

@voretaq7 With your skinny, lanky frame? I can only imagine you had them alterated.

coding_corgi

@WesleyDavid Grrrrrrrrrrrr.....

@DennisKaarsemaker naah...

;P

WesleyDavid

16:07

Wait, aren't the Dutch supposed to average nine feet tall? How tall are you @DennisKaarsemaker - I need an optimal perch.

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@coding_corgi meh, more like coding whargarbbl then :P

@WesleyDavid 1805 millimeters

coding_corgi

@DennisKaarsemaker hm! :P

WesleyDavid

@DennisKaarsemaker Well heck, you're no fun. I'll have to stay with @Zypher

Dennis Kaarsemaker

yay!

ewwhite

@voretaq7 Do you go all out for Pride normally?

WesleyDavid

16:10

Client of a client forwarded me 19 emails of communication between him and a supplier because they say the supplier was lying.

Dagnabbit.

voretaq7

@ewwhite Me? I avoid it like the plague.

coding_corgi

@WesleyDavid Ha ha!

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite He steals my false eyelashes and fishnets.

ewwhite

It's confirmed. Our SNMP community name really is "disabled"

WesleyDavid

@ewwhite How insensitive. It should be "developmentally-challenged"

voretaq7

16:12

I've never felt the need for a parade to celebrate being who I am - there's no "Straight Pride" parade (and if there were it would be treated the same way as a "White Pride" parade), so why should there be a "Gay Pride" parade.

Journeyman Geek

@voretaq7: precisely

voretaq7

@WesleyDavid too many letters, they're probably using v1

ewwhite

@voretaq7 See, my people get an entire month!

Journeyman Geek

or maybe "retarded" ?

coding_corgi

Hey guys, I know this is the wrong room to ask, but i thought there would be that kind of knowledge floating around... But I am about to build a server, i'm going to buy a motherboard next week, and i have a quick question...

WesleyDavid

16:13

@ewwhite The coldest and shortest month. =(

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek How's Ash doing today?

:]

Journeyman Geek

@coding_corgi: asleep ;p

WesleyDavid

@coding_corgi Answer: SuperMicro. It's always SuperMicro. Just as @ewwhite

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek awwww......

Journeyman Geek

lol

its past midnigt ;p

coding_corgi

16:13

@WesleyDavid SuperMicro? I think me knows what you is taking 'bout, me thinks ewww...

Michael Hampton

Buy a motherboard?

Journeyman Geek

@coding_corgi: most servers are prebuilt

voretaq7

@ewwhite You have to share it with something else too

Journeyman Geek

the moment you buy a motherboard...

Michael Hampton

Most good servers are prebuilt.

coding_corgi

16:14

@MichaelHampton Mhmmm

Michael Hampton

Most DIY servers are crap.

voretaq7

@ewwhite en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bird-Feeding_Month

Journeyman Geek

now if you meant a workstation with a xeon processor...

voretaq7

National Bird Feeding Month

ewwhite

@MichaelHampton you're supposed to have an opinion of our SNMP community name.

Michael Hampton

16:15

@ewwhite ro or rw?

coding_corgi

@MichaelHampton well, the cheaper route was not prebuilt, and it also seemed more stressful and fun...

@voretaq7 ugh.....

ewwhite

@MichaelHampton ro

4,000 devices... and I never noticed that was the name.

Michael Hampton

@ewwhite That's no fun. It needs to be the rw community string!

Journeyman Geek

lol

Michael Hampton

@coding_corgi How much is your time worth?

Journeyman Geek

16:16

@coding_corgi: what sorta server? what will you be using it for?

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek Naah, I'm going for an AMD, thinking at least quadcore, and at least somewhere around 4 GHz

ewwhite

Not enough.

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek i don't know, :P

Journeyman Geek

@coding_corgi: eww eww eww

@coding_corgi: always know what its for

else you won't be able to work out what you actually need ;p

coding_corgi

@MichaelHampton it's summer, schools out, so i have lot's of time, and i'm thinking of spending around 350, i looked over the prices etc, it landed in that sort of area

Michael Hampton

16:17

A server without a purpose? OK, the level of wrong in here is now TOO HIGH.

ewwhite

This reminds me of something I wanted to ask here... I'm not sure how to turn it into another epic Server Fault question... But as professionals, how do you balance the desire to learn, tinker, but also maintain stability?

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek well, web server, network hosting for files, etc.

Journeyman Geek

@MichaelHampton: thats true of anything

@coding_corgi: what sorta load?

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek sort've of a low load,

Journeyman Geek

cause if its not very heavy, and you don't need a whole load of nines...

coding_corgi

16:17

@JourneymanGeek nines?

Journeyman Geek

well, why not just build a desktop, see how it deals with it, and then look at upgrading? ;p

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek naah....

Journeyman Geek

99.999999999999% availability

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek ah

Journeyman Geek

@coding_corgi: or in this case, work out why doing that falls short

dawud

16:19

@ewwhite I personally use our developers as guinea pigs

Michael Hampton

@ewwhite I learn and tinker in labs. Not generally on the production systems. (Unless something's horribly broken and I have to in order to get it back up.)

Journeyman Geek

(my personal desktop would actually probably handle most of the things you're looking at. A low end xeon box can probably do a lot of those cheaper and better ;p)

ewwhite

Tinkering is bad as a sysadmin, but it's also good... The desire to build a server makes sense from a learning and playtime perspective, but makes no sense in a production/stability/availability standpoint

Could this be an okay question?

Journeyman Geek

@ewwhite: depends on priorities. Also, if its under a warranty, when it breaks, a good part of it is someone elses problem ;p

and the part that is your problem is handled by proper planning

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek listen, my question is this: what if my motherboard's ports didn't match my cases ports? what would i do?

dawud

16:20

@ewwhite we have 3 or 4 full environments, depending on the case; so I usually use the TEST env to implement stuff

ewwhite

I had a number of bad situations this week... so many that I was sad @MichaelHampton wan't around to hear about them.

Journeyman Geek

@coding_corgi: its standardised.

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek ?

Michael Hampton

@ewwhite Aww, so you did miss me!

Journeyman Geek

quite literally you get a case thats the same formfactor, or a bigger one, and it ought to work

coding_corgi

16:21

@JourneymanGeek ?

dawud

@ewwhite IMHO, it is a too broad question

ewwhite

A storage vMotion gone awry... 5 Supermicro server failures... Mysterious warm-boots...

@dawud I'd pretty-it-up...

Journeyman Geek

@coding_corgi: now, I'm building a ATX based system. I can get a (monster of a case) that can handle an EATX motherboard, and put anything smaller in it

ewwhite

I'm thinking about the above situations... where the IT person at a client managed to hose their VMware environment by going one step too far...

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek uh.... Maybe you could show me an example?

Journeyman Geek

16:23

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_ATX ;p

Michael Hampton

Yeah, but your typical server motherboard won't be ATX form factor.

ewwhite

with the underlying issue being that a lot of IT people seem starved for cool things to play with.

dawud

@ewwhite if there is the need to reproduce a PROD failure, it makes a lot of sense

Journeyman Geek

@MichaelHampton: point really being, as long as its a standard form factor (which any DIY system will be) it should fit in any case for a bigger standard form factor

(aka, do some homework ;p)

Michael Hampton

More likely you'll see SSI CEB or variants thereof.

SSI CEB

The Compact Electronics Bay Specification (CEB) as well as EEB, MEB and [https://ssiforum.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=55:ssi-releases-eeb-2011-specification-to-rev-10&catid=8:news&Itemid=68 TEB] ("Thin Electronics Bay") are standard form factors for dual or multi processor motherboards defined by the Server System Infrastructure (SSI) forum. The specification is intended for value servers and workstations based on the Intel XEON processor. The width × depth of a SSI CEB motherboard are , while SSI EEB is and SSI MEB is . The SSI CEB specification was derived from ...

voretaq7

16:24

@coding_corgi Why are you building a machine from parts?

Doing so in a production environment is borderline irresponsible

Journeyman Geek

@MichaelHampton: my bad there

/me mostly works with desktops

coding_corgi

@voretaq7 ...

ewwhite

@voretaq7 but there was point in history where this was not true.

Michael Hampton

@JourneymanGeek For instance, SSI EEB is about the same dimensions as EATX, but the screw holes are in different places. So you need a case with holes for SSI boards.

Journeyman Geek

@MichaelHampton: ahh

Michael Hampton

16:27

@JourneymanGeek And most consumer cases don't have SSI holes at all. There are a few that do, though they're usually on the high end.

voretaq7

@coding_corgi no "..." - You purchase machines assembled by reputable manufacturers, that come with a guaranteed service warranty (the bottom end of the standard is "4 hour parts-on-site"), that way when (not if) things break you have (a) the tools to fix the problem quickly, and (b) someone to point at if you can't fix it because the manufacturer breaches their warranty contract.

@ewwhite yeah... back in the late 90s. Hasn't been true for the better part of this century.

ewwhite

@voretaq7 tell my coworkers!

BOOM!

Chris S

Vsauce has become one of my favorite YouTube channels. Which is interesting considering their first posts were just terrible.

voretaq7

If we're going to stay stuck in the past let's run 110V power to all the servers and connect them to the light switch. Carpeting in datacenters is perfectly acceptable. Fire suppression should be water sprinklers...

@ewwhite Feel free to paste them my previous message :)

coding_corgi

@voretaq7 umm...

Travis

16:33

Screw you SF stars! If I wanna star my crap I should be able to! It's just that damn good and I want everyone to see it!

Chris S

@voretaq7 Who needs fire suppression - the chances of using it are a million to one.

Travis

@voretaq7 Your servers don't run on 110?

coding_corgi

@voretaq7 ummm.... What are you taking about?

Travis

@ChrisS We have no fire suppression in my datacenter :)

voretaq7

@Travis they do, but we feed them 208

Travis

16:34

Unless you count the ABC extinguisher outside my office door

voretaq7

they'll accept anything from nominal 110 to nominal 240

coding_corgi

@journeymanGeek how to i know if my mother board is atx supported?

Travis

i see

Chris S

@coding_corgi The what??

Journeyman Geek

@coding_corgi: research ;p

voretaq7

16:35

22 mins ago, by coding_corgi

Hey guys, I know this is the wrong room to ask, but i thought there would be that kind of knowledge floating around... But I am about to build a server, i'm going to buy a motherboard next week, and i have a quick question...

Don't.

Journeyman Geek

or SSI EEB supported

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek like how?

Travis

We found it cheaper just to go to Petland and buy hamsters in bulk. When one dies from exhaustion we just replace that one with a fresh one and burn the bodies weekly.

coding_corgi

@voretaq7 why not?

voretaq7

that's the answer to any question that starts with "I'm thinking about building a server (from parts, by myself, without a manufacturer supported warranty)"

Journeyman Geek

16:35

I'm taling entirely from the desktop builder perspective but you can generally download and look at manuals for most systems before you build

coding_corgi

@voretaq7 um, so?

voretaq7

@coding_corgi Because of all the reasons I just gave you, and all the reasons in the multiple questions on Server Fault about "Should I build it or buy it"

Travis

@coding_corgi So don't build one from scratch if you're going to be using it as a production server. The manufacturers got it right when they built them more than likely and hardware compatibility would be no issue.

coding_corgi

@Travis not really a production server, just a hobby server, im only 12, c'mon, do think im going to make a server room for google?!

voretaq7

@coding_corgi In that case ebay a used 1U - they're cheaper than the parts.

Journeyman Geek

16:38

@coding_corgi: I think at this point, RA might end up being more topical ;p

Matt Bear

hi all

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek ra?

Journeyman Geek

root access

Travis

@coding_corgi Well excuse me. SF is for "professionals" in the field that need help. I wouldn't expect a 12 year old building a hobby server to be in the "professional" forum....

coding_corgi

@Travis ewwww.... Are you insulted by a 12 year old being in the room? ;D

Travis

16:40

@coding_corgi No, intimidated. There is a difference...

Matt Bear

@Travis could be a chance to get a kid started down the right path though...

Journeyman Geek

@coding_corgi: more the hobby server, and the building and...

voretaq7

@coding_corgi You are technically in violation of Stack Exchange policy if you're actually 12...

Journeyman Geek

My first hobby server was a PIII I picked up at a university ;p

Matt Bear

remember Doogie Houser

coding_corgi

16:41

@MattBear thanks

Journeyman Geek

and my second was a atom box

Travis

@MattBear I started with advice to get him on the right path, however, he wanted to be a smart alec about it and not explain his requirements and constraints...

coding_corgi

@voretaq7 Ha!

Journeyman Geek

VERY different needs from a professional environment

voretaq7

@JourneymanGeek My first was a 386 I recycled.

@coding_corgi I'm not kidding.

21

Q: How do I use Stack Exchange if I'm under 13 years old?

I was just reading the Terms of Service, and noticed something: Subscriber certifies to Stack Overflow that if Subscriber is an individual (i.e., not a corporate entity), Subscriber is at least 13 years of age. No one under the age of 13 may provide any personal information to or on...

Journeyman Geek

16:42

(right now, its a old core solo laptop)

voretaq7

Unless you've followed those requirements (which I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have)

Matt Bear

@Travis He's 12 lol, its his job to be a smart alec, and have no idea what he wants to do

coding_corgi

@voretaq7 isn't that if you have your parents permisson?

voretaq7

@coding_corgi There are specific requirements spelled out in that meta post.

You can thank COPA for making this a hassle.

Travis

@MattBear "Server Fault is a question and answer site for professional system and network administrators".....it was a safe assumption he was asking because he was a professional system or network administrator...

coding_corgi

16:43

So funny: Teh, age limits on the internet. Nobody really cares. Your fine – TheLQ Aug 21 '10 at 14:07

Journeyman Geek

@coding_corgi: totally the fault of well meaning ~~idiots~~ lawmakers

voretaq7

(basically your account needs to be registered to your parents, they have to have told you it's OK to use it, blah blah blah blah blah)

Travis

@coding_corgi What's your budget?

Matt Bear

@coding_corgi are you wanting to play in the hardware side, or operating system side?

voretaq7

@coding_corgi Except the government cares. Why we don't know. I think it has something to do with this though:

►

(she would be an awesome congresscritter - she's got the sobbing-screaming-think-of-the-children bit down!)

84104

16:45

If you're always thinking about the children there's a good chance you're a pedophile.

coding_corgi

@voretaq7 never gave 'personal' info like exact address or phone number etc. for all you knkow i might be pulling your leg, ;D

@JourneymanGeek ha ha

@MattBear more os

Travis

@coding_corgi Your budget for this server?

Matt Bear

also, whats your budget? and how do you even have a budget lol my budget at 12 was like $40 a month from more lawns

voretaq7

@coding_corgi Like I said, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that if you are 12 you're using your parents' account, with permission :)

84104

voretaq7

16:46

@MattBear damn - lawn mowing paid well in your neighborhood!

Matt Bear

@coding_corgi you might be better off playing with hosted servers

ewwhite

and the week begins...

coding_corgi

@Travis uh, around 350, i looked around at where i was going to buy the parts, and i think it fits in

voretaq7

@84104 THAT explains the comments section!

ewwhite

ext3_abort called.
EXT3-fs error (device dm-2): ext3_put_super: Couldn't clean up the journal

Matt Bear

16:46

@voretaq7 was several lawns :p

tombull89

Damn. At 12 I was more concerned about playing Lego: Island.

voretaq7

@ewwhite EEEEEEEEEE :applauds:

Travis

Yeah no kidding

@coding_corgi Purpose of server?

Journeyman Geek

eh, at that budget, prolly going need to get creative ;p

Travis

@coding_corgi Networking equipment?

coding_corgi

16:47

@voretaq7 not my parents... uh oh... ;D

voretaq7

@tombull89 At 12 I was... kind of on my way to being a juvenile delinquent.

Journeyman Geek

(or just get a VPS)

Travis

@coding_corgi Rack mount or tower?

coding_corgi

@84104 ha ha

tombull89

What's the server gonna be used for?

coding_corgi

16:47

@Travis definetly tower

tombull89

(droppin' in late here)

Journeyman Geek

@Travis: is it even possible to get a rackmount that dosen't belong in a musieum for that?

voretaq7

@coding_corgi for 350 I think you can get some of the Dell tower servers

Journeyman Geek

hell, I think building a desktop at that budget would be tricky

Travis

@JourneymanGeek I'm asking his requirements. Doesn't matter what he gets as long as it meets his requirements :)

coding_corgi

16:48

@tombull89 uh, as said before, network files, web hosting, etc. nothing reallyy special

Travis

web hosting?

Journeyman Geek

@coding_corgi: raspberry pi! ;p

ewwhite

I feel like we're being trolled.

voretaq7

actually they're apparently more expensive these days - $450

@ewwhite corgi'd. Have you ever played with a corgi?

Matt Bear

@ewwhite we might be... lol

coding_corgi

16:49

@JourneymanGeek you must live expensive the, i don't know i sort've wen over the numbers...

@JourneymanGeek already have that

@JourneymanGeek you must live expensive the, i don't know i sort've wen over the numbers...

@Travis apache2

ewwhite

gotcorgi.com

Travis

@coding_corgi I got that... The idea is your ISP probably won't like it..

tombull89

@coding_corgi Considered a HP ProLiant MicroServer? Most places offer £100/$100 cashback and the older model are getting cheaper because the most recent one was released...recently.

coding_corgi

@ewwhite naah

Journeyman Geek

@coding_corgi: I build higher end boxen I guess ;p

Travis

16:49

@coding_corgi I've got a Dell PowerEdge 1400sc we decommissioned

coding_corgi

@tombull89 i saw those a few months ago, made me gag

Journeyman Geek

let me see what I can throw together from partspicker

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek would you like to see where im buying from?

Journeyman Geek

@coding_corgi: naw, just to get a rough idea of what is possible

coding_corgi

@JourneymanGeek microcenter.com/#

tombull89

16:51

@coding_corgi Don't knock till you've tried, the G8 ones look very nice. Okay, the CPU is isn't that great, but as long as you don't want to virtulise on it you should be fine. I've got two in my home lab and they do file and web services nicely.

coding_corgi

@tombull89 naah, i like hotrods, not eco cars, ;D

Chris S

@tombull89 Second that - Or if virtualization isn't critical yet, an older Proliant. The G3/G4 models are getting crazy cheap.

Travis

@coding_corgi Where you live?

Chris S

Also, I recommend HP MicroServers for appropriate sized situations. Considering one for a satellite office right now too.

Travis

state

Matt Bear

16:52

@coding_corgi also check out windowsazure, if you just want to play with a server OS, you get a 3 month free trial

coding_corgi

@Travis ha ha, no

@MattBear no. Ever hear of linux?

Chris S

@Travis In the US.

voretaq7

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@coding_corgi linux is for freedom loving hippies. Real americans use windows.

voretaq7

That was just BEGGING to be captioned.

coding_corgi

16:53

im out, be back in 30

Chris S

@coding_corgi Azure supports several Linux distros.

Matt Bear

@coding_corgi lol... I have 15 production linux servers running on windowsazure right now

MDMarra

@coding_corgi You can run Linux workloads on Azure windowsazure.com/en-us/manage/linux

Chris S

@MDMarra Pft, you're slow... looking up the link and all

ewwhite

@voretaq7 that site is run by one of the IT people for a produce company I support...

MDMarra

16:54

haha

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@MattBear why windows azure over, say, rackspace cloud or ec2?

voretaq7

@DennisKaarsemaker Real men use SCO.

Travis

@coding_corgi You got it... I was gonna send you one of our old servers to get you started on the right path as @MattBear would say....

Matt Bear

@DennisKaarsemaker azure has a 3 month free trial

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@MattBear I wouldn't put production servers on a free trial...

Matt Bear

16:54

I dunno about rackspace or amazon

Chris S

@voretaq7 DERP!

voretaq7

@MattBear Microsoft is pretty desperate huh? :)

@ChrisS There's really no better caption for that one.

Matt Bear

@DennisKaarsemaker they arent...

Chris S

@voretaq7 That was great

Nathan C

@MattBear Amazon has a one year free trial, but it's for their smallest instance

voretaq7

16:55

@ChrisS That one and "I. Hate. You." in the middle

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@voretaq7 "I smell a @WesleyDavid"

Nathan C

Azure will get you with that too. The 3 month trial is for their smallest server. If you use a larger one it'll end way before then.

Chris S

@voretaq7 Well, they're way behind AWS, so yeah.. And AWS gives away a lot for free too

Matt Bear

@NathanC oh, cool, might have to play with that then lol

voretaq7

that's the face of a dog who has been made to sit here for 3 hours while Stupid Human "waits for the light" or something....

Nathan C

16:56

I had their "large" server up, but it lasted 3 days before I ran out of credit...

Travis

puts the server back in the storage closet

voretaq7

@DennisKaarsemaker maybe if you cleaned his litter box he wouldn't smell?

Journeyman Geek

eh, yeah, pretty tough to get a full build in that budget

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@voretaq7 I am NOT touching @WesleyDavid's poop.

3

Matt Bear

@NathanC when we started our account, we had the free trial, but once it was over it was set to continue paid... we maxed out the trial in about 4 days

Nathan C

16:57

@MattBear Yep, and they don't mention that either...

Chris S

@Travis He's far enough that it wouldn't be convenient to get it to him.

Travis

@ChrisS I was going to SHIP it to him...he just had to pay shipping

Probably cheaper than buying one....

Chris S

@Travis If it's a Proliant, it's probably 50#, and would cost $200 =P

Matt Bear

@NathanC I diddnt figure we would be able to run, at that point, 10 production med instances for free :p

Travis

@ChrisS Dell 1400SC

@ChrisS 37#

Chris S

16:58

I put 1200 lbs of Proliants in my SUV two months ago and dumped them at the recycling place. Suckers weigh more than they look

voretaq7

@ChrisS Servers go USPS :-P

Travis

62.29 USD *

Matt Bear

@ChrisS lol

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@ChrisS I have a stack of 12 of them to get rid of

Journeyman Geek

@coding_corgi: super rough build pcpartpicker.com/p/19Lx0 no storage of course.

voretaq7

16:59

@ChrisS How much did you get for the scrap iron? :-)

Chris S

@voretaq7 Computer recycler - I'm pretty sure there's some local school district running them right now.

Matt Bear

@voretaq7 I actually have a bunch of old 4u P3 servers in my scrap iron pile right now lol

Travis

I wish we had a computer recycler. They all want to charge to take the scrap in...

voretaq7

@ChrisS ...heartless bastard, inflicting HP hardware on poor innocent school kids

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