and just so you know, wifi introduces so much ping and jitter into the average network that even if they live in the same zipcode on the same ISP, they will probably have less than acceptable pings or jitters if either party is using wifi (and a LOT of people use wifi)

@voretaq7 Virginia is what the POC says, but it's in a NJ DC. Ready for my PayPal?

@Jacob HAH, you're off by several states!

@allquixotic play music over the internet live

(in both cases actually)

@voretaq7 No damn way you route that in 3ms. from NJ

@Jacob At least you didn't fall for the bogus whois info on the netblock

but how did you get NJ?

@sethcall saying "use ethernet only, use the same ISP and subscribe to the same DSL/FTTP/cable field office" is pretty restrictive, and I don't think you'll get most consumers to subscribe to that. Have you considered using a lower latency codec, like Opus?

@voretaq7 How do you get away with that

yes that's what we are using

@voretaq7 10 27 ms 28 ms 28 ms core3.melville.nwk.vastnet.net [207.252.72.17]

@Jacob shrug it's not MY netblock, what the fuck do I care if ARIN thinks it's in Italy for some fucked up reason :P

and yes, it's too restrictive atm

also, if the music doesn't have many synchronization points, or ideally only one, you shouldn't need to constantly be in sync

it means when I bounce through that box I get Google Italia though

@sethcall Sounds like you're trying to solve something that's not really a problem. You don't need stellar ping times to stream live media, and plenty of people out there do so without such low pings to all their viewers.

from a musician's standpoint, what you'd do is have each participant play according to the sheet music and keep time on a local metronome, and all that has to happen is that they are reasonably in sync when giving the "start!" signal

@HopelessN00b sorry, it's not stream live; it's two or more musicians playing together

@allquixotic musicians need to hear each other

@Jacob NWK isn't "Newark"

@sethcall Metro Ethernet, only hope for that

(i'd argue)

@sethcall Oh, damn. Yeah, good luck with that... sounds like a nightmare.

@voretaq7 NY?

thanks all you guys for any suggestions; and yes, its a nightmare

maybe have to do south korea first as launch =P

@Jacob Yup, Melville to be specific

@voretaq7 Again, ready for my PayPal addr? :P

I have not been there, but apparently their national ping times are, unsurprisingly, awesome

("nwk" is what John uses for "network infrastructure" - routers, switches, WAPs, etc.)

@Jacob nuh-uh, you blew it with your Virginia and NJ guesses :P

@sethcall I've heard of similar services (or attempts) before, and I know it's a hard problem, but really the only way to make it work without being in control of the routing between hosts is ................. WAIT!!!!!!!!!

I would have also accepted using the LOC record for the domain though

@voretaq7 No I said the netblock said VA.

@sethcall SKYPE!!!! I know this isn't going to help you immediately, but... Skype. Seriously. Skype's protocol. You know how they do call routing, right?

@allquixotic ... waiting? :) lol

@allquixotic I have heard skype has their own solution to deal with this, but I don't know anything about teh details

@sethcall they actually use users' connections in a peer to peer routing protocol that finds the lowest latency path available and uses that, to keep call quality good and bypass bad links.

just heard today, meant to google it out

hm

they use the bandwidth of people not on calls?

; <<>> DiG 9.7.6-P1 <<>> -t loc bsd-box.net
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 29792
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;bsd-box.net.			IN	LOC

;; ANSWER SECTION:
bsd-box.net.		3034	IN	LOC	40 45 0.000 N 73 30 0.000 W 30.00m 5m 10m 10m

I think so, yep

wow hm

(that's not where it actually is, but it's close)

basically they have nodes everywhere, which is the only true way to fight bottlenecks

ok discount cost for a second

(silly I know, but pls)

if you had 'servers everywhere'

@sethcall Point to point dark fiber. Problem solved.

you'd think it's equivalent

@voretaq7 thx =P

@sethcall no cost? point-to-point fiber.

(fuck man if you discount cost I'm going to tell you to spend TRILLIONS!)

if you didn't want to have the consumers hosting it peer to peer, and you had servers "everywhere", it would work fairly well, yes

@sethcall Your best bet is a dedicated server or 2/3 TBH (and I happen to have some in Dallas,AZ,VA,PA,) :)

hell, point-to-point fiber and multi-exabyte local cache servers :-)

Yeah Dark fiber and Metro ETH is the best option.

we can get that latency down to SSD seek time baby!

lol

if cost weren't a factor, I would buy one to five powerful dedicated servers in every datacenter in the world, then briefly measure latency, packet loss, and jitter (empirically) prior to making a connection, both "natively" (through the user's own ISP) and through some nearby servers

@sethcall That's actually how the big CDN (content delivery networks) do it. They host servers at ISPs and datacenters all over the world so that everyone they reach has a "close" server to get their data from, instead of having to pull it from somewhere far away.

well, we can have regional launches and be happy. if only dallas area works. well, that's not ideal of course, but it's not the end of the world if we have to 'go slow'like that

(this is like in my software engineering class where my team was the only one that correctly judged the budget for the project, because there's a BIG difference between a budget of $0 and "No budget")

@voretaq7 explain?

@allquixotic at my day job we do something similiar; we do a speedtest.net-like scoring test againt all of our datacenters, and match u to closest one

@Jacob "no budget" == infinity.

@sethcall just FYI, having one dedi server for the entire region isn't going to be OK, you need to have a dedi server in literally every datacenter

@Jacob "No Budget" means no budget was assembled. You may be allowed to spend an unspecified amount of money

A budget of $0 means "You can't spend shit"

because what if the user trying to access your dedi server gets bottlenecked on the way there

@voretaq7 Sorry for dragging up an old convo again (I went away) but I do have to defend myself a little bit

@allquixotic rgr, good point.

My home internet is much better than our work internet ;)

@MarkHenderson Y shit upload?

@MarkHenderson . . . run that against the NY server for comparison :-)

@Jacob Australia.

@MarkHenderson yeah you can't how that much download and have that much upload. It's like having big biceps and a skinny neck

@Jacob 's normal. I'm guessing @MarkHenderson is on fancy DSL?

@sethcall you'll basically need the omnipresence of a CDN but the thing you're transporting will be live, time-sensitive data, not files from cache

@allquixotic yup

@Jacob HFC, they always, always, always limit your up here for some reason

UNless you can get FTTP

@sethcall How much do you upload? I bet 90% of your upstream traffic is ACK . . . ACK . . . ACK . . . ACK . . .

pie in the sky atm; I've always wished as a gamer I could access such a speciality network too

The whole continent has to share a single dialup modem that connects them to the rest of world. (Dingos keep diggin up and eating their babies fiber runs.)

nice upload (mine is 1 meg ok? standard consumer cable)

@MarkHenderson So. We're waiting. Run that against a server not in the 3rd world.

@HopelessN00b DINGOES ATE MY ROUTER!

@voretaq7 and yes, I know, I was just teasking mar

mark *

C:\Users\Media>ping stackoverflow.com

Pinging stackoverflow.com [198.252.206.16] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 198.252.206.16: bytes=32 time=214ms TTL=43
Reply from 198.252.206.16: bytes=32 time=213ms TTL=43
Reply from 198.252.206.16: bytes=32 time=212ms TTL=43
Reply from 198.252.206.16: bytes=32 time=214ms TTL=43

Ping statistics for 198.252.206.16:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 212ms, Maximum = 214ms, Average = 213ms

@MarkHenderson so much nostalgia for my dial-up days, 200ms ping times

Jumping, going downstairs and getting a drink, coming back upstairs and firing the rocket to complete my rocket jump...

@voretaq7 Google is better

C:\Users\Media>ping google.com

Pinging google.com [74.125.237.137] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 74.125.237.137: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=52
Reply from 74.125.237.137: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=53
Reply from 74.125.237.137: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=52
Reply from 74.125.237.137: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=52

Ping statistics for 74.125.237.137:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 9ms, Maximum = 13ms, Average = 11ms

@MarkHenderson Dude, it's GOOGLE. They fucking broke into your house and installed a server in your bedroom closet while you were sleeping.

@voretaq7 I have fond memories of playing MTrek on a 1200 dialup. That shit got terrible if I took my ship anywhere near earth.

@MarkHenderson NO SHIT? They have servers in storage containers :)

The only reason you have 12ms pings is they told the server to lie and delay responses

@Jacob That's so the people using satellite internet on ships can still get search results fast.

Does anyone have experience with a RTL8111 on Linux? apparently it's a very common but very buggy ethernet controller with two different open source drivers, one "r8168" maintained out of tree by Realtek, and one "r8169" maintained by the Linux kernel developers in-tree; the latter seems fundamentally broken up to about Linux 3.5, and still has plenty of bugs... anyone have experience using r8168 successfully over a long period in production?

@ScottPack eugh

Reply from your closet(Google): bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=55

@Jacob I'm just sayin, for domestic destinations it's not so bad

I was getting 15MB/sec with Steam the other day - that's the fastest I've ever seen it

Hotel wifi for teh suck!

@HopelessN00b thats more like what I'm used to seeing ;)

No shit they have a storage container of servers in a VZ building here.

@HopelessN00b awesome :D

@voretaq7 Tell me about it. Stud.

@HopelessN00b I can blind myself with my Fiber :P

@MarkHenderson the problem is the only domestic stuff you have is beer and diseased Koalas :P

@ScottPack :flexes: :drops tables like they're hot:

@Jacob Maybe tomorrow. I'm about to study for that pesky 70-647 exam and then go to sleep

@MarkHenderson Yeah, I can't wait to get to home. I pull 30/5 or something like that over my cable connection. Streaming HD video to every TV and computer in the house, with bandwidth to spare. <sigh>

@MDMarra Thanks.

@allquixotic Better ask @ewwhite

@Jacob ProTip: Use a piece of paper to test your fiber continuity, NOT your eye.

@voretaq7 Hey, did you know that carrots are good for your eyesight?

squish YOU LIED TO ME

@voretaq7 Good advice, since you can really only test a fiber connection with your eye twice or so.

@voretaq7 In other news, while trying to figure out what model modem I may have had I came across the Epson MX-80 which was the printer I was using up until the mid 90s. That thing was bad ass.

@ScottPack I had an LQ-510 (with the font cartridge, because I was hardcore like that)

I remember reading the manual to my US Robotics 28.8k modem when I was 7 or 8 and thinking, "this magical gateway to the world wide web should last me until I'm 30 or so!"

thing was fucking indestructible. We had a (kitchen) drain pipe burst and pour about 2 gallons of soup on it. I hosed it off, dried it out, and kept using it another 5 years.

less than 2 years later my parents upgraded to a 33.6 :(

@allquixotic I'm going to do an Internet.

WHOA!

@Jacob I'm going to do a book!

....Aww. :(

@voretaq7 Oh, that was the one with the manual roller to advance the pages? Yeah, I actually like that design. The MX-80 had a couple of buttons to line everything up, one for line feed and one for form feed.

@ScottPack yeah the 510 had line feed, form feed, micro-adjust in case your pages weren't QUITE hitting the perforation mark, and a roller in case you really wanted to use it

That's pretty nice really.

the roller was the only thing that broke (the shitty plastic for the knob split and it wasn't engaging the metal post anymore

That the OS has a 10 year lifecycle does not necessarily mean you should run it for 10 years!

Why do I like Epson? Because if I still had that printer I could download the fucking manual for it!

sigh Old people talking about things that are older than I am :(

@Jacob I bet you grew up with cable or DSL, didn't you. Didn't you, ya little brat?!?! Now get off my lawn! :)

I think you can still buy ribbons for the MX-80 (released in 1979).

@allquixotic DSL :(

@ScottPack You can get third-party 510 ribbons, Epson probably sells them too

amazon.com/Epson-Fabric-Ribbon-7753-LQ-500/dp/B00004Z5E6

5 bucks

@voretaq7 Fun Fact: The modem we had for my Amiga 1000 had a push-button switch to go between 800 and 1200 baud and connected using the LPT port. If I wanted to print something I got off ze Internets I would have to download it to the machine, power down, swap the modem for the printer, boot, then print.

you know how much inkjet ink you can get for 5 bucks? A PICOLITER.

@RyanRies How about DHCP server. Can you put that on a domain controller?

@ScottPack yuck.

All my modems were serial

The one time I tried swapping the modem and printer without rebooting the gorram thing threw up a guru meditation error all over the screen.

@ScottPack you grabbed its gizzard and tried to pull it out through it's ass - what did you think it was going to do?

@voretaq7 classiccmp.org/dunfield/amiga/h/a1000bk.jpg

While you can, in fact, see a serial port that fucking modem didn't use it.

My First PC was an Emachines.

Fun Fact: See that keyboard port? That son of a bitch is RJ11.

@ScottPack Fun Fact: I have RJ-11, AT, and PS-2 cables for my Model M

Score!!

(yeah I have one of the ones with a replaceable cable)

I lord that over everyone else with a Model M :-P

"Oh yeah, well when my cable finally breaks I can just replace it and use the keyboard for ANOTHER 50 years!"

As much as I want to neckbeard it up with a Model M I do really dig the Dell QuietTouch I have right now.

I only use the model M when my RSI acts up

I use a laptop at home, and it's a pain in the ass to use a Mac without a meta key.

More on the cPanel compromise. webhostingtalk.com/showpost.php?p=8577480&postcount=1403

Root passwords aren't sensitive customer data, it seems.

@MichaelHampton -_-

@Jacob Damn Web 2.0 kids. The first thing out of their mouth is "XMLHttpRequest". Instead of playing with whoopie cushions or antisocial games like Wolfenstein 3D, they grew up using Twitter and making mischief with XSS. :P

@allquixotic nope, whats tweeter?

@Jacob LIES

It can SO go faster than that

@voretaq7 how do you know this?

Oi. Late. Adieu to you. And you. And you. And you.

@Jacob Um.... no comment?

:knocks hard drive with mysterious outward dent and rattling noises into bin:

@Jacob just submitted the cancellation request for my old Hetzner server. still using the new one.

@allquixotic nice.

got it to bring up ethernet and ssh automatically with no intervention on reboot, so that's good enough for me

wish James would hurry up with the migration to the box you provisioned us; I need to cancel my swiftway :P

@allquixotic :)

11 hours ago from James on facebook

> Some little girl at dialysis just came over, giggled at me, and gently placed a single cheeto in my hand. O.o

@MichaelHampton You can, but that's pushing it... ;)

@allquixotic IT'S A BIG KITTY

@MichaelHampton It depends on your situation, but if you have thousands of clients relying on DHCP services, it can make doing maintenance on your domain controllers tricker. Trust me, I've disconnected hundreds of employees trying to install a service pack on a DC that was also running DHCP, the patch time exceeded the lease time. >_< Don't tell anybody I did that

@RyanRies Why was the lease so short

@JoelESalas It was left at default, and I didn't think to check it

@RyanRies It also occurred to me that maybe it took you like a week to install a service pack?

@JoelESalas Oh yeah, you reminded me, it wasn't default

It was 30 minutes

I didn't set it that way :P

Who the fuck sets their DHCP lease time to 30 minutes?

@MichaelHampton My old boss

@RyanRies I trust that you fired him?

@MichaelHampton Well I make as much as he does 2 years later, after leaving that job, if that helps

@RyanRies Close...

@MichaelHampton That's probably the biggest blunder of my career so far... I didn't check the DHCP lease time, even though there would have been no sane reason for it to be set for 30 minutes, that's still no excuse for me not having checked it.

So I made a VHD in Hyper-V... I set the size to 3 GB. I got a 4GB VHD. WTF?

Fixed size, dynamic?

Fixed size

And, wait, it was a VHDX

Yeah I dislike that HyperV in 2012 makes dynamic VHDXs by default, and then it turns around and tells you in the Best Practices Analyzer "OH HAY FIXED SIZE WORKS BETTER HURR"

I just recreated the damn thing and now it's 3 GB. What. The. Fuck.

"How does a load balancer work?"

@MichaelHampton It balances the load.

you lot were chatty overnight -anything interesting ?

@Iain A note from cPanel

webhostingtalk.com/showpost.php?p=8577480&postcount=1403

@MichaelHampton I read that - root passwords aren't important

In that case, you wouldn't mind putting them all on pastebin, right?

@MichaelHampton or give then to Cpanel which appears to have been the the same thing

"lol cPanel"

heh, god damn.. users have been complaining to me for months about our new canon MFPs' being shut down by some loonie who works at nights

we've told him again and again that he's not to turn off the printers

now I found out that the printers actually have a "auto power off" threshold of 3 hours, which flips the physical power switch on the machine

@pauska WTF?

yes, what a great fantastic fucking idea Canon - implement software and a robotic arm that flips a physical switch...

Fuck you Canon, for ruining the joke I was going to tell!

pretty sure they're just triggering a relay

but a robotic arm does sound more amusing

If I could downvote that question twice, I would. Once for the lack of research and once for saying BSD isn't a real operating system. Fucker.

Ha. He edited it, but didn't remove the insult.

Oh well.

But he did accept my answer!

OK, that's 225 rep for the day. See you all tomorrow.

what are you talking about? 'BSD isn't a real operating system!

Ummmm.... no.

@Olipro I agree. If BSD's a real operating system, how come I can't install Windows Updates on it?

hah, exactly

@HopelessN00b Because Windows isn't a real operating system.

"hay guyz, it says my linux version is FreeBSD 9.2, is that very old?"

32 bit extension and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. Now with twice as many bits!

the cluelessness in this one is strong serverfault.com/questions/482940/pfsense-monitoring-real-ip

@MichaelHampton Granted, but at least they're not IBM.

Oh look, ANOTHER Adobe PDF vulnerability.

IE 10 on Windows 7! Let's go torture myself!

or...not.

I had to DIG for information out of this poster...

terrible.

@tombull89 IE10 seems to work just fine in my eyes

I think today will be the day I make an OpenNHRP ebuild

...and then proceed to wait half a decade for it to get into the Gentoo portage repo

The guy with 12 SATA disks in RAID 5 is back. He's got I/O issues...

@MichaelHampton 12 SATA disks in one RAID5?

Oh jesus.

I'm shocked. SHOCKED to see him having disk problems still.

no wait. The other one... completely fucking unsurprised.

@Ward I have been having those yes, can't recall the exact name but they've caused me some pain too, mostly in the sternum

Finally had the bother to update my Careers.SE profile (Read, C&P from Linked In)

Then I went to add some SF Answers and I realise my answers suck :(

never seen an answer from you that sucked @dan

What exactly is WSUS doing when I start a cleanup? Because I started a cleanup of unused packages 24 hrs ago and it seems to be like 10% done.

And the SQL Server process was maxing out a core over the whole time

Seems unreasonable

@RobM Hehe, thanks dude. I just struggled to find any that I thought an employer would see and go "Ooh"

@OliverSalzburg It removes all superseded updates and tidies up the DB.

It does take a long time, especially if you have a lot of classifications approved and all that

@MDMarra So you know if the process has to run start to finish? Or could I abort it now and run "more cleanup" next week?

You have the option to abort?

Because MMC also crashed yesterday after running for several hours. I'm wondering if I got anything out of that

@MDMarra In fact, I do

Not sure. I've never canceled it

And 24h does seem long

Initially, I cleaned up all options, but it didn't seem to make any progress. Then I read blogs.msdn.com/b/jjameson/archive/2009/03/28/… and followed the suggestion of only cleaning up outdated updates

But, yeah, then yesterday the MMC crashed while doing so and today I'm looking at a small speck of blue in my progress bar

Seems like deleting the database and starting fresh would be a lot quicker

If your rules/groups/approvals aren't complicated, it may be

@MDMarra This is an SBS with pretty much only 2 workstations

As long a you don't care about the historical reporting

Oh. Yeah that's not a lot

Well, thanks for your input :)

@Dan hiya, what's that site you guys use to build up specs of gaming PC hardware and it looks for best prices etc? sorry but I forgot

@Chopper3 pcpartpicker.com/uk

@Chopper3 Not me, I'm afraid - I don't do gaming PCs

@Chopper3 How're you, though, mate?

@tombull89 Thanks, not the one I was thinking of but I'll take a look thanks

@Dan bit better than yesterday, but it's been a bad (final) cycle tbh

@Chopper3 Are you clear after this one, though?

@Chopper3 ah, okay - It's quite good for comparing prices between the different online retailers as well.

@Dan last chemo (so long as it doesn't come back anyway), then 3 weeks of radiotherapy from 18/3

@Dan oh and one infusion every three weeks until november and a tablet once a day for five years - but hopefully going to sod off away from here for a week or so about 18/04 or so

@Chopper3 Oof, hope it's well on the up for you, though. Where are you going nice? Italy?

@Dan yeah, somewhere not too far, not too stressful, really shot right now tbh, feel like I'm a 90yo man

@Chopper3 Yeah, I imagine it's been really tough. Seems like a LONG time ago you first mentioned it

@Dan august - won't be back at work until may or june at the earliest - like being on paused for most of a year

@Chopper3 Christ, yeah, long time to be out of it.

@Dan haven't looked a a think tech-wise since then either, really out of the loop - ah well

@Chopper3 More important things in life.....like, well, being alive.

@Chopper3 The infusion every 3 weeks sounds the same as what's planned here. Some sort of anti-body?

@Ward herceptin yeah, had 6 already but another 12 due

@Chopper3 Were your last rounds of chemo herceptin and paclataxil (can't be bothered to look up the spelling)

@Ward no, mine are doxatocil and carboplatin, plus the herceptin

@Chopper3 work will come back to you quickly, don't worry :) Like Dan said, being alive is what matters!

yep, thank you

@pauska @Chopper3 More importantly it gives us mere mortals time to catch up a bit :D At some point you're going to have to tell me where, when you're better, you do find all your info :D

@Chopper3 you deserve a nice break, I have to say

@RobM I saw that - I made my "Are you for real?" face

Me too, just a bit

I dislike all the mealy-mouthed "I had a long day and.." type of apology. I'd have a lot more respect for someone who said "In the cold light of day I can't believe those words came out of my mouth. There's no excuse, and all I can do is apologise to those I've offended". Not difficult

@RobM Yeah, apologies from politicians are just the worst kind of bullshit

Yeah. They must know how much weasel words like that just make things worse. Same as when any of them are asked a question on radio or TV.

@MichaelHampton This question didn't make any sense.

@RobM What annoys me is that, in a weird way, if that's what he thinks / means then he should just man up and admit it. I'll think he's a nob, but at least we'll be square

no. No it doesn't.

@dan yeah, I can respect an honest bastard more than a weasel.

Doesn't mean I'll like or agree with the honest bastard, but they're still worth more than someone who's not prepared to stand by their principles.

@RobM Yeah, exactly

And ultimately, that's what politics should be - how am I meant to find an MP who aligns with my beliefs when they're not willing to admit their own

@ewwhite I looked at that this morning and thought "you know what, just walk away and pretend you never even tried to read it"

@RobM Do you know what's being asked?

@Dan that's because their beliefs are for sale. I've said it before about politics, and I'll say it again. It's not about voting for someone who won't screw you. You're screwed either way, all you're doing is picking the brand of lube

@ewwhite For some reason he's wondering if switches give a flying fuck about the network stack beyond layer layer 2

@ewwhite I understand the words he's using but I can't arrange them into an order that makes sense for any networking behaviour I know.