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1:01 PM
ok now Dell tech support are having trouble sending emails out from a part of their website.
I must remind our dell account manager of that the next time he rocks up and says "I know you've got lots of email server knowledge on site already, but you should still buy our email server consultancy package...."
@Basil Must be Europe. "Professional" jobs generally can't Unionize here.
@ChrisS Canada, technically. And the railways are unionized heavily
1:23 PM
Oh right. Brain fart... Knew you were from Up North
@basil storage!
@ewwhite few more minutes, sorry
So i just had a developer, who has a restrictive systems engineering team, tell me his workaround for system access..
Specific sudo commands for the dev unix group are defined in /etc/sudoers
E.g. sudo lpstat -v
the devs are renaming or even copying a bash binary to their homedirs...
and renaming it lpstat
in order to get access to a root shell.
gatta do what you gatta do ?
Why? Because engineering is unresponsive and people need to get things done.
1:30 PM
"if someone stands in your way, you simply walk up to them and stab them in the back"
One, that's a super easy hack... two, doesn't that mean engineering isn't doing their job well?
someone needs access to x and engineering doesn't give it to them...
but doing what you said their doing isn't the answer - the answer is goto management
I think it's not eve the delay. It's probably the not wanting to deal with the sysadmins at all.
there's that IT stereotype... of always being like, "NO!"
the admins should do what management says (as long as management understands whats being requested) within reason. management says its ok to have access - give it to them
1. I'd remind the Devs they can (perhaps "should") be fired for such crap 2. Tell them to document when they put requests into Engineering and when Engineering responds. The first things that's delivered late pull out the documentation of what's going on.... This is basic CYA in business land, something they should know already.
1:34 PM
@ewwhite I'm finally done, what was it we were talking about?
I don't think management knows... management is deferring to the engineering team to set policy.
This is a company that has gone through SIX people in four years to replace me. Each replacement brought stranger and weirder policies to the environment.
they should pay you to hire the and train the next one sounds like
The engineers won't talk to me. The devs do. I criticize the engineers because of things like this.
but @chriss you're right... that's a form of hacking
how does the company make money? from the dev's that make a product for sale or from the admins who maintain the systems ?
@lsiunsuex From the dev's product that runs the North American fruit & veggie industry.
1:39 PM
Or the engineers who seemingly do nothing and don't help anyone? ;)
then, within reason, give the devs what they want - cause without them...
Maybe I'm just a cock, but if I'm not given what I need then I simply down tools
when I was there, though... out of a company of 50 people, I was responsible for 33% of the revenue....
@Dan likewise but i still notify management and get it down in writing
I can't lie, occasionally I'll 'work around' things if it's in my remit and it's easier than asking, but if something is being actively denied then yeah, I'll simply sit back, send some e-mails and explain that someone is now paying for me to read the Internet
1:41 PM
as administrators, that seems key... make the devs happy... especially because that's usually the main part of the business.
@basil I have a discussion planned with Racktop Systems today. They are a Nexenta partner that OEM's their own hardware. They want moar marketshare and I want to grill them on how they can compete with proper enterprise storage.
I find Dan's method is the best way of getting things to change. It's maybe not the best way to "get things done" today, but it's the best way to make sure you'll be able to get things done tomorrow and the day after.
The question really should be put to management - why they're letting the engineers set policy, when the dev's are the ones doing the working and bringing in the revenue. Engineering should be supporting the devs
@basil I want to understand some of the characteristics and indispensable features that are common in the storage systems you manage.
@HaydnWVN I think it's fear. The management is dev-centric and never took time to understand systems (which is why I had a hard time there). As a result, they blindly trust the engineering leader.
The devs told me that the engineering team has a "no download" policy in their new system implementations. They went from CentOS to paid RHEL and no longer want anything downloaded outside of the RHEL repositories. No rpmforge, no epel... Yet, they're not creating custom RPMs for the things that are needed.
@ewwhite Unfortunately, it's a bit of an old boys club. The biggest selling point of the storage we use is that it's sold by EMC, HDS, or IBM
@ewwhite no custom anything, is a limiting factor of productivity, surely management can see that?
1:46 PM
Tomcat is one of the applications... and there's a .so file that's no longer distributed with the RPM for mod_jk. Engineering says that's no good... "Don't use mod_jk anymore"
The modular stuff we use for our remote sites is a different story- a lot more like what you'd see at a medium sized shop
@ewwhite Management - whatever their situation always favour 'if it ain't broke don't fix it', particularly if the engineering manager has been there longer (= more trusted), but it's when things are causing additional work for the devs that it needs to be highlighted
@Basil So what does HDS/EMC offer that this Racktop solution doesn't? (not being facetious, but is there some killer feature?)
@ewwhite CKD volumes
mainframes drive storage at any site that uses them
which is to say any bank, insurer, railroad, or other unsexy but massive industry
For the large shops without mainframes, it's all about the perceived risk of downtime
@HaydnWVN So as admins, we have to keep that in mind, right? Not getting hung up on our agendas and keeping the business interests as a priority.
1:50 PM
They don't just want to know how it's built to stay online, they want it to have a reputation of staying online, and that's hard to build
@Basil so earlier, someone mentioned a Dell storage controller failure... is that handled much more smoothly with real storage?
@ewwhite It's all real storage, but on an enterprise box, there are 12 redundant controllers
(on mine, at least)
@basil I've had unexplained Nexenta failures... stalls... outages. Do you see any problem with smaller businesses relying on low-end storage?
@ewwhite Unexplained errors are something that doesn't happen with enterprise gear.
Mostly because they go through so much testing before being put out to market
like when I get firmware- it's been running on a lab machine for about 16 months usually
and some clients' machines for 8 of those
@Basil so where does it start? Is there a starting $$ figure where you end up with the types of internal redundancies you describe?
1:53 PM
by the time it gets into my box, any obvious errors will have been found and documented
@ewwhite well assuming you're still talking about enterprise storage, the cheapest entry is the VMAX-e from EMC or the smallest DS8000 from IBM
this isn't the nexentra market, though
this is the mainframe attached market
It's more fair to compare nexentra to netapp
@Basil people are buying bigger and bigger nexenta boxes... and trying to scale them up.
@ewwhite Anyone willing to put the work into making it work can get better performance, but it comes with a built in risk of downtime
@basil that's an example of what I'm seeing. Dual-head with multipath SAS to daisy-chained enclosures.
is there a clear deficiency in that type of design?
@ewwhite Right, so that would be best compared to a 3par, netapp, compellent, VNX, or AMS storage box.
(also, is netapp not considered enterprise)
1:59 PM
@ewwhite The deficiency is that you have software from one place, LSI raid hardware from another place, ZFS logic from a third place, firmware on the HBAs, and who-knows-what handling failover and failback. If it stops working, how long will it take to fix? Who will I call?
@ewwhite Netapp is considered enterprise the same way 3par, compellant, or EMC's entry level box is. It's got one group of people in charge of making it all work together, but it doesn't do mainframe or support five nines.
@Basil Good point... Nexenta doesn't actually have anyone to call.
@Basil so do you think people need five-9's for VMWare?
@ewwhite Obviously I can call the first person in line who sold it to me, but who do they call when it gets out of their pay grade?
@ewwhite Many do- it does run their entire business, usually
@Basil That's my first question to this vendor... because I KNOW this thing can outperform the lowend EMC, Netapp and Dell solutions I see out there... but support means that the vendor would have to have very solid ZFS expertise on-staff and hardware techs to dispatch
DO the enterprise SANs call-home?
@ewwhite yes
@ewwhite Also, you'd be right for performance per dollar probably, but any of those other solutions are efficient and scalable in terms of performance.
You might find better performance per unit of hardware on something like compellant
Well, I did three system upgrades this weekend... one was on a VNXe with 18x450G disks. No SSDs, flashcache or any fanciness...
performance went way down.
(coming from physical 8x10k disks)
2:06 PM
@ewwhite You weren't the only user at that time, were you?
over the weekend, yes.
are you sure? Did you get access to the storage to see the performance?
I still can't get into the management interface... but measuring from the VM, I see high I/O wait.
measured from the box, you might have seen more than one load going on at the same time- lots of places use the SAN on the weekends
in any case, even if it was the case, I think you said that the EMC box wasn't tuned properly (by someone who knows how to tune it for VMWare)
Yeah, so are there people selling EMC without tuning knowledge?
(I would think a minimum of certification would be necessary in order to be a vendor)
2:09 PM
@ewwhite there's incompetence everywhere :P Even at EMC
especially at EMC, actually
Same for Netapp?
less so
in my experience
but that's why netapp is so much more expensive than emc
Oh, I would have thought EMC was higher priced.
@basil Any thoughts on isilon?
@ewwhite not really- it's not on my radar for work. It's very new, though, and I have heard mixed reviews
2:14 PM
EMC is more expensive for the VMAX (which, in my opinion, is their only good storage), but much much cheaper on the VNX
@Basil Reading this article to understand the difference.
@ewwhite Vendor bloggers are a lot of hot air. What it boils down to is that the VMAX does mainframe and has 5 9s, and the VNX doesn't.
The VNX is from a completely different history than the VMAX, and recently had a terrible NAS duct-taped to it.
Does anyone know if the Windows Storage Server 2008 R2 Standard comes with the Hyper-V role installed by default?
basically an intel server sitting in front?
@OliverSalzburg I don't think you can run Hyper-V on it at all
nevermind having it be pre-installed
You might technically be able to, but it's likely a violation of the EULA
2:22 PM
@MDMarra A client of ours just got a new storage with the storage server on it and I logged into it for the first time.
The local IT guy tells me he didn't install the role (I don't believe him) :D
Nah, why would it be installed by default
But the role is installed.
Should be in the setup/system logs
for when it was modified
I'd put cash on him having done it!
@Dan It makes no sense to me. But before uninstalling it, I'd like to cover my ass :P
2:23 PM
I'm 99% sure no version of Windows comes with Hyper-V installed already, except for Hyper-V Server.
Dig through the logs!
@MDMarra Will do now.
@MDMarra Why read logs when we can speculate :D
(you're supposed to LOOK at logs?)
2:24 PM
@ewwhite Only when it's to make someone else look bad
@Dan It will be a long search as I'm not really familiar with Windows logging system. So I thought I'd ask first.
@OliverSalzburg Wasn't mocking you, dude :)
Okay :)
It was a reasonable question, but MDMarra's right about getting a definite anaswer
@OliverSalzburg Just right click > Filter > Hyper-V
2:25 PM
why does emc feel the need to acquire everything they can get their hands on
@ColdT I dunno, Cisco rubbing off on them maybe?
Is this a dead link? hdx.citrix.com/hdx-monitor
Q: iptables error

achal tomarAfter running following command:- iptables -t nat -I POSTROUTING -m state --state NEW -p tcp --dport 25 -o eth0 -m statistic --mode nth --every 5 -j SNAT --to-source I get following error:- iptables: No chain/target/match by that name. I am running this command to chang...

@MDMarra I think it's an ocsetup or something event, installing the roles...
I'm lost. What is he trying to do with that rule?
2:27 PM
@ChrisS Yeah, but the one about needing to reboot after install has Hyper-V in the description, I believe
Either way should work
@SmallClanger He wants iptables to automatically pick a different external IP for each outgoing SMTP connection.... Smells heavily of spamming, though he does at least recognize that and mentioned it in the Q.
@Dan dead link
Ah, of course he'll have another 4 rules just like that for different IPs.
@ColdT Ta
@ewwhite I think it runs some long-dead version of linux. It's called the "cellerra" and it's the worst piece of crap I've ever had to manage.
2:31 PM
@ChrisS Either I'm looking in the wrong log section or there's nothing logged by "Optional Component Setup"
The first messages that Hyper-V itself logged was that the Hyper-V service is shutting down because the host is shutting down.
A-ha! Got the culprit
In the Installation log, I guess that wasn't too hidden after all.
@Dan @MDMarra @ChrisS Thanks for your help :)
@OliverSalzburg Sorry, real life called... Yeah, it's in the Setup log, source is "Optional Component Setup"
@ChrisS I found a note from "Servicing" telling me that the role installation requires a reboot.
Should have an entry that says The Windows component "Microsoft-Hyper-V" was successfully installed. (Command line: "ocsetup Microsoft-Hyper-V")
Maybe it doesn't have if you use the GUI... not sure now...
@ChrisS This is also a German installation. So it's all a bit weird anyway :P
Interesting.. If you use the GUI it doesn't log the installation, it just logs that Servicing
2:45 PM
Really hard with the keywords :(
@OliverSalzburg So did the guy actually install it himself and lie about it? ;)
@MDMarra Looks like it
@OliverSalzburg Now you get to do my favourite thing - the non-accusatory, friendly, diplomatic e-mail which is secretly very accusatory and full of "told ya so, dickhead"
@Dan I already wrote such an email today.
@OliverSalzburg Man, you're having the best day :D
2:54 PM
Because the same server had various "helpful 3rd-party utilities" installed in the local Administrator account >:(
@OliverSalzburg Hey, Angry Birds is helpful when you need to screw-off for 3 hours everyday to make it look like you're busy!
@ChrisS I was told the tools are for documentation purposes only and that they can be removed now. Good enough for me
i always find it amusing to let idiots run aground on the rocks of their own stupidity
The thing about this particular case is, I once installed and then uninstalled Hyper-V on an SBS. Which was a huge mistake :D
So I was very careful in this case. Who knows
fun fact: in french, a crane is called a "grue". Every time I see a crane downtown for washing windows or whatever, it's got the word "grue" written all over it.
3:06 PM
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue
@Iain right?
why am we talking about grues?
@Basil 97 meters? IMPRESSIVE.
13 mins ago, by Basil
fun fact: in french, a crane is called a "grue". Every time I see a crane downtown for washing windows or whatever, it's got the word "grue" written all over it.
@Basil Yes I know the french are strange and feel that they can avoid being eaten by calling random things "grue", but why are we talking about grues? :-)
(fun fact: Grues won't eat the French as a staple diet because of all the butter -- too much cholesterol is not good for a grue.)
3:29 PM
@voretaq7 They prefer bearing grease.
Heh (from: adobe.com/uk/products/creativesuite/faq.html#subscriptions) "Your subscription includes access to the current and future versions of the Creative Suite application (as long as your subscription remains active) as well as 10B of storage space and the ability to sync your creative files from your desktop to the cloud.*"
@Basil Man, I'm in the process of doing all 4 CV joints on my camper van - I've got grease bloody EVERYWHERE
@SmallClanger A whole 10 bytes? or is that a typo?
@84104 Don't spend it all in one place, y'hear?
PSD's all of a sudden got an amazing compression ratio?
3:41 PM
It says 10GB elsewhere, but this being adobe, I could easily believe it.
Righ tthen, my work here is done!
Laters kids
1 hour later…
4:50 PM
Quiet monday.
8 mins to go! :)
mornin' gents.
@Adrian Not in the civilized world! :P
@Basil True. You can hardly call Seattle civilized. Most of the restaurants close at 9pm on weeknights even in the summer.
Enh, it's Monday. Sucks like morning; same diff.
4:53 PM
@Adrian Goodness
Sitting in a cafe... dealing with weekend upgrade fallout...
Eww. What broke?
The atom?
Nothing really broke... just the usual, "is this because of the change?" questions
5:03 PM
Probably not... I'm close enough to Chicago that I'd probably be feeling that kinda fallout too. 'Course, for how boring a Monday it's been, I might not mind some radioactivity and melting flesh to spice the day up a bit.
@ewwhite Ugh. My inner smartass loves to answer those... unfortunately.
no matter how many times i make a cat5 cable, i can't quite memorize the color pattern :(
should get it tattoo'd on my arm
Huh. I should be more careful what I wish for. SAN just went down. I miss "boring" already.
Or stop making Cat5 cables by hand when you can buy them for $1 each
had some remnants - needed one / didnt feel like digging through a box
50 footers aren't that cheap - we use quite a few of them under the floor from ds3 to telephony switch
5:22 PM
I see the broken camera faerie visited one of our remote offices this weekend. "I took the camera out this morning to take a photograph and found the screen to be broken and the camera inoperable."
5:40 PM
@Adrian My favorite phrase: "It was like that when I got here"
@JoelESalas Yep. A sign of a person that should never ever be promoted.
@Adrian More like promoted to CEO! "The stock price was like that when I got here"
Still haven't figured out why CUPS 1.4.x crashes every single morning at 6:30 when offering printers shared from a CUPS 1.5 host.
Very strange. Same time every morning.
Quiet day on the star wall. Too quiet...
No voretaq7, no kitties, and ewwhite's busy.
I, however, get to build a new Wordpress site today. I do it so rarely that I've forgotten...
6:01 PM
Ok, I'm slightly unclear on how the Linux kernel works regarding locks, as I clearly don't understand the performance graphs on my VMWare box.
anyone have an easy way to shutdown a bunch of PC's NOT on the domain at say midnight every night remotely ?
When the VMWare box is busier and coming out of an idle state, the 'Wait' performance metric drops down from a steady 140000ms "wait" time to nearly zero, and then goes back up.
@lsiunsuex Add them to the domain.
@84104 cant, to many of them (over 500) all hp thin clients
windows xp embedded - not even sure it can join a domain
@lsiunsuex Can you configure them all to take wmi commands (from specific IPs)?
6:04 PM
@lsiunsuex do they all have the same local admin password?
Sounds like a batch w/ psexec and shutdown.exe is the trick there
all same local admin
psexec and shutdown /s
will it take a wild card pc name? hp-* ?
how would it know what to do with that?
You'd have to wrap it in a for loop and feed it the names or IPs from somewhere...
the root of this; a custom piece of software we have on these thin clients likes to crash in the middle of the night - so their solution is to reboot all of them, every night, instead of figuring out why the software is prone to crashing
6:07 PM
that sucks
yeah, really sucks
i assume you have an inventory of machines somewhere
make that a CSV or whatever and feed it to a for each look
and run shutdown that way
YAY! Our Printer Wizard is here! Couple times/year we stack all our broken HPs LaserJets in a corner and have our local HP certified technician come fix them all.
i could write a VBscript to list all the PC's in the WORKGROUP (only thin clients are in it) and loop through it that way
6:12 PM
@Basil Disney being assholes. Quelle Surpris!
@Adrian yup
6:23 PM
@lsiunsuex no, bad, no vbscript, bad
Ugh. "All my users are renaming their domainjoined boxen. Anyone have ideas about what to do?"
I think I need a shower.
@Zypher PowerShell good?
@84104 embedded XP + PS? Sounds unpleasant.
@84104 exactally
I get a little tired of people wanting stuff now and suddenly needing it so badly that it overrides all architecture tasks, but then whining when the stuff that gets delivered doesn't integrate well with the architecture. Duh?
6:36 PM
@adrian Nah, that's because computer stuff is all just easy magic, and if you can't do both at once, it's because your magiks are weak, and you should be replaced by a more powerful computer wizard. Everyone knows that.
Should we answer questions for spammers?
I think that's a modhammer scenario, not an answer candidate.
@HopelessN00b Heh, no. These are mostly social workers. It's all scary black magic to them. They just don't bother to make up their mind about anything until 5 minutes before they absolutely need it.
Sound like every other user in the world to me. :)
@HopelessN00b I was blessed in many respects. All my other work has been in software development companies. No too many people there for whom computers are black boxes.
6:43 PM
So it turns out I have a herniated disk between my 6th and 7th vertebrae. That would explain the pain.
@JoelESalas Ouch. =(
My kids are getting big enough that I have to watch that now. Littlest is 50lbs and 4'4" and it's getting dicey regarding having her sit on my shoulders.
Not very freaking little anymore, really. =/
@Adrian I liked the chiropractor because we're both scientists. His approach to diagnosis was extremely methodical
@JoelESalas Nice. I rather like my chiro too. Good guy from Boston, no bullshit or flakiness like so many folks here.
I told him that I valued expertise and that was why I came to him directly instead of getting the run-around from a generalist. He said he didn't change his own oil either :D hahaha
7:10 PM
Ugh. My head's exploding. All this Windows stuff that I need to learn....
@Adrian Oh, that thing in the bottom left corner? It's called the "Start Button".
@ScottPack Time to wrap my head around AD. It's going to be a long week.
my iphone app is ugly :( think i'm gonna rip off SOStacked' design elements :)
@Adrian It's LDAP plus better stuff
@JoelESalas s/better/more/
or s/better/Kerberos/
7:21 PM
@adrian AD's just a hideous master-master networked database conforming to the whatever the hell MS felt like at the time standard, used for storing virtually everything about a Windows environment, including AAA functions.

What's to understand? :D
@voretaq7 Group Policy is the only reason Windows Server still exists in 2012
Aye. I'd like to start leveraging global GPO so my padawan isn't having to set GPOs up for each one of our slowly-proliferating Windows terminal servers
Is AD bad? It seems pretty handy.
@ewwhite My take is that it sucks less than not having it.
Yup. It's like democracy. It sucks hard, but sucks less than the other option.
7:26 PM
Does this fall under "sharding"?
ls -1...
its a directory of directories of .TIFF files.
@JoelESalas Group Policy = Puppet Plus :)
If there's enough files to be a performance hit if grouped together and they're being called up by another app that dynamically generates the directory to grab, I see no problem.
@ewwhite AD is a good system, MS got it mostly right
4000-6000 images per directory
there's some 10000lb elephants stampeding around the jungle, but it's generally low-suck.
7:29 PM
@ewwhite I love active directory. Best user/role/privilege management tool out there
@ewwhite That seems reasonable to me. Directory listing take a really long time as the count goes up, even in Solaris.
@Adrian the application looks to be doing some rollout to ls -l
so it's not broken up by year/month...
Total disk usage: 228.7GiB Apparent size: 223.4GiB Items: 2706101
@Adrian freebsd.active-venture.com/FreeBSD-srctree/newsrc/ufs/ufs/… <-- Hey slow-UFS people... YOU CAN HAS!
@voretaq7 This was on Solaris 9/10. Quite a few years ago, I do admit.
@Adrian I don't think Solaris ever picked up the dirhash stuff from the BSDs
they pretty much shat UFS out into space in favor of ZFS (which has the same kind of hash structure IIRC)
7:31 PM
@ewwhite Ah. I assumed those were date based archives, or perhaps I misunderstand.
Yeah, it's a situation where I want to start pruning years of images off of the system... and thinking that 6000 images per directory was a little stupid
@voretaq7 yeah, ATT started whining when the app would process backlogs and have to parse directories with 1M+ files in them. Took forever and they've have to move them to another box and run the grouping scripts there.
@ewwhite Can you discuss what the heck that thing does?
@Adrian Document imaging storage for an ERP application.
so, basically scanned invoices and documents for a software application...
@Adrian Generally UFS is pretty blowful until you put dirhash, dirpref & soft updates on top of it
@voretaq7 Yeah, I have no idea what FS it was running. I was still pretty wet behind the ears back then and still figuring out non-Linux Unix-like OSs.
7:37 PM
@JoelESalas Can you teach me how to tie a Cisco ASA firewall to AD authentication?
(for VPN users)
I'm kinda liking this idea of seamless updating an AD server with my NIS data too.
^ Interesting talk on the history of UFS/FFS
@ewwhite I haven't done specifically that. What authentication mechanisms does the ASA support? LDAP/Kerberos/RADIUS?
I especially like how the story of the filesystem is basically "So we doubled the block size again, and got about a 100% performance improvement (again)"
7:38 PM
That's the setup on the server side
Are the client machines joined to AD?
hmm, not sure.
probably no
Q: Virtualization - Windows guests on Linux host?

KryptoniteCheck my previous question. I am now looking at specifics relating to enterprise virtualization. I have done some research into Citrix Xen Server and VmWare vSphere. I need to know whether it is possible to run Windows 2008 guests on linux hosts. I would like to set it up like this for cost reas...

@voretaq7 I need to find a playlist with talks like that....
Half the world uses some VMWare virtualisation product and he has to ask if Windows guests are any good on it. Really
7:54 PM
Send them to Experts-Exchange.com!
@ChrisS it's a pain in the ass to find them - best way I've found is searching Youtube for BSDCon talks.
Maybe I'll assemble a playlist
@ewwhite So you're going to be using the Cisco VPN client? In that case you have to choose the authentication mechanism, AD doesn't support them all. If you're FIPS-compliant it's a whole different world of certificate pain. Are you going to use per-client certificates?
@JoelESalas Naw.
@voretaq7 Yeah, the "BSD History" search has a few good ones, but they all seem to have terrible names and I haven't found a good list anywhere.
The hard part is separating out classroom lectures with shit titles from conference talks with good content from conference talks with no content
7:57 PM
It's neat to see MySQL stats in cacti
That's actually the first time I've seen this particular BSDCan talk come up in my searches so I know what I'm listening to tonight after work. Everything I know about UFS journaling is off the mailing lists and out of the code :P
I don't pay much attention to UFS anymore as I'm not using it at all on my Server or Workstation. Only the embeded stuff uses it anymore.
He's taking the piss, IMHO:

It sounds like he's not even SEEN the freebie versions
@Dan It sounds like he wants server fault to build him an environment piece by piece.
and frankly I'm getting rapidly fed up with people like that...
8:25 PM
@Dan it's much easier to ask the internet than do your own research and reading manuals
Reading and research is for nerds anyway. :p
Most of our crappiest questions are from 101 rep users who associated their SO account
@Iain Who generally have <5 posts on SO, and still have 1000+ rep over there.
indeed, sorta
8:38 PM
@ChrisS Going to give me some more free rep? :)
@MichaelHampton Yep. It's not doing me any good to horde it; might as well let the site get some use out of it if I can.
8:51 PM
@JoelESalas Incompetent, lazy, unqualified.

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