The Hangar

ymb1

14:42

@TomMcW Royals home opener? redd.it/mi3hvp

ymb1

17:09

@MichaelHall my theory is that an increasing number of people can't absorb information from a well structured document anymore, unless that document has been indexed by google. The "art" of reading a document index and finding relevant sections is getting lost. As a consequence people turn up here with questions to which the answer is written in the book next to their keyboard. That then begs the question, are Boeing maintenance manuals easier found on the internet than their Airbus counterparts. — DeltaLima 21 hours ago

@DeltaLima interesting discussion, feel free to invite Michael here; here's how I see it:

we actually get more 737 questions than A320

and IMO we get good ones, that go beyond the need-to-know for a pilot, i.e. inquisitive questions

how many 737 pilots know that the elevator tabs have two behaviors?

it's not in the pilot manuals, or the recent A320 DME question -- while the 777 uses a scanning-type DME, its manual is more vague compared to the 320's

I find them keen observations, and the questions come from inquisitive minds

another interesting one that isn't covered by the pilot's manuals alone, is the IDG cooling

even the engineers (maintenance; not designers) and mechanics that work on them, don't fully understand every part -- for instance a valve or an LRU can't be taken apart for troubleshooting (manufacturer IP), if the diagnosis says a part is faulty or suspect, just replace it and try again

this reminds me of an old joke, a husband who is a mechanic and his wife an engineer, he asks, "why can't you fix your own car?", she replies, "why can't you design a car?"

and the driver (pilot) here would be their daughter I suppose :D

there's also another angle, which was mentioned in a Flight article, celebrating the most recent A320 anniversary if my memory serves me well -- the operating manuals were written by the engineers, which made them harder for the pilots

Michael Hall

17:37

Good points made, but my concern is that we often have no information about the asker, or answerer.

The asker may be an undersupervised technician who hasn't "filled out the about me section" yet, wondering how to complete a procedure that is inadequately explained in the maintenance manual.

And the answerer might be a video gamer and trivia geek who goes unchallenged, gets upvoted, and the answer is accepted.

There may be truth in it, but is it approved? Did you see my comment on this answer? Do we know this anonymous person speaks with any authority on approved procedures?

We rightly challenge certain AME questions, but don't always vet with equal rigor other dubious queries. Maybe a blanket disclaimer is needed?

ymb1

I'd be very concerned to learn that professionals would use the internet for actual advice :D -- Stack Exchange got their asses covered in the terms of service, which by extension our asses I think -- but still I'd like a disclaimer like the one on Law.SE -- I brought it up before, but deleted it, I think the reasons I mentioned weren't really good aviation.meta.stackexchange.com/q/3377/14897

Michael Hall

Anyway, food for thought. Sometimes I feel my role here is threefold: (and in equal portions...) Learning, teaching, and policing.

ymb1

regarding that specific PTU question, it is very unclear, my guess that's a university design assignment

ymb1

20:21

Re operating manuals were written by the engineers, which made them harder for the pilots -- after some sleuthing, found it:

> Tarnowski believes there would have been an early days benefit for new A320 crews if Airbus had merged its design and training teams earlier in the design process, but says: “I am not convinced that an earlier merging of the test and training communities would have changed the design of the A320.” It would probably have helped the instructors, however.

Flight International | 21-27 February 2017

it was more about introducing the then new automated flight management aspects

TomMcW

@ymb1 No. One just happened to fly over the town of Paola, which is pretty much due west of Whiteman AFB where they are stationed.

TomMcW

21:05

@Shalvenay Got a railroad question for you

Shalvenay

21:24

@TomMcW fire away

TomMcW

I was at a BNSF intermodal facility today. All of the inbound container trucks have to pass through these two little buildings on their way in. The inside is filled with what might be UV lights. Any idea what's up with that?

Shalvenay

21:54

@TomMcW could be one of a few things -- depends on how long the building is.

cargo scanning type stuff is a possibility but kinda unlikely -- could be the tag reader (AEI reader) to figure out what containers came in

TomMcW

@Shalvenay Ah. I bet it's the latter. I noticed a camera in there. The lights are just for the cameras.

Shalvenay

@TomMcW yeah, cameras would make sense too to inspect for damaged containers

TomMcW

22:29

@ymb1 Was the dust storm that got that ship stuck in the canal unusually strong? Apparently the bow and stern thrusters were not able to counter it.

Shalvenay

@TomMcW not even dust, just wind -- they were getting pushed into one bank, and my working theory is that got them into a bit of an oscillation, sorta-kinda-like-a-PIO

and it diverged to the point where they grounded

TomMcW

@Shalvenay I saw somewhere they were complaining about zero visibility too. The face of all those containers can probably create some scary force.

Shalvenay

@TomMcW oh, if they had hit low visibility, that's far worse

you basically can't steer in a confined channel unless you have a good view of your own bowspirit

or are traveling rather slowly

TomMcW

@Shalvenay I think in the Suez wind= dust

TomMcW

22:48

@Shalvenay I wonder if going too slow can also reduce lateral stability.

It could reduce rudder authority just like in an airplane

Shalvenay

23:01

@TomMcW it does indeed reduce rudder authority

the issue is that going too fast reduces stability, basically

ymb1

@TomMcW AFAIK they have only begun the investigation, latest official statement was: it wasn't wind, whether human-error or mechanical fault TBD -- ports and canals are closed in high wind / low visibility, but I'll check the closest METAR

someone posted this on reddit today reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/comments/mimo5y/…

amazing how ship sizes ballooned

TomMcW

@ymb1 How far was that from Cairo?

ymb1

guesstimating 100 km

60 miles

110 km / 60 NM on google earth

TomMcW

I think they were doing some drifting. ;)

ymb1

23:17

lol

closest AFB doesn't report to WMO, no ICAO code -- Wikipedia says, based on CNN and BBC: The strong winds, which reached 40 kn (74 km/h; 46 mph), resulted in the "loss of the ability to steer the ship," causing the hull to deviate

METAR HECA 230530Z 17005KT 4000 HZ SCT025 26/11 Q1002 TEMPO 2000=

TomMcW

It almost sounds like they shouldn’t have been sailing through that day.

ymb1

it happened ~ 0530z

4 hours later: SPECI HECA 230915Z 21027KT 1000 R05C/1000 R23C/1000 SA NSC 32/06 Q1003 NOSIG=

given the wind direction, it confirms a sandstorm moved from there to cairo

15 knot speed would cover that distance in 4 hrs

TomMcW

Is SA sandstorm?

ymb1

SAnd

sand storm is SS

in SS, you feel the sand grinding in your mouth lol

TomMcW

Yeech. Doesn’t sound fun. We used to get dust storms here. My dad described them to me. Sounded awful.

ymb1

23:26

maybe a question for engineering.se: in how fast a wind can a container ship station-keep w/ thrusters

the dust bowl?

TomMcW

We don’t have a shipping.se. Nor a railfan.se.

@ymb1 Yeah. The dust bowl. My dad grew up here in the 1930’s.

ymb1

actually correction

wind direction would move it the other way :S

confirmation bias right there lol

TomMcW

have you ever read Steinbeck’s The Grapes of Wrath? He gives a really good description of the dust storms.

ymb1

nope, any good?

looks super good, will bookmark it and look into it

TomMcW

@ymb1 Very good. It’s quite political, got him on J. Edgar Hoover’s bad side.

ymb1

23:31

been reading 19th century Russian literature lately, e.g. Crime and Punishment

TomMcW

Only thing I’ve read from there is War and Peace.

ymb1

started that one

a nice companion to it is Beethoven's 7th symphony 2nd mov't :D

TomMcW

Or the obvious Tchaikovsky 1812

ymb1

:D

TomMcW

I’m a big Beethoven fan. Can’t place the 7th at the moment.

ymb1

23:36

here you go youtube.com/watch?v=mgHxmAsINDk

TomMcW

@ymb1 Oh yes. That’s a beautiful movement.

ymb1

supposedly the final report is 4 days from last Wednesday

TomMcW

Why isn’t there a literature.se? That has always seemed like a no-brainer for the site.

ymb1

so in a day or two, and "reportedly" the black box data wasn't turned over as req'd

@TomMcW I think there was!

pretty sure too

TomMcW

Heck. There is. It’s in beta, so it must have been added since the last time I looked

ymb1

23:43

lots of sites are stuck in the beta limbo, can't see how space.se isn't out of beta yet

TomMcW

I had a War and Peace question and couldn’t find a lit.se.

that’s been several years ago.

ymb1

I need to start that one from the top again, whenever I have time to steam through it -- happy to answer crime and punishment questions though :D

TomMcW

I completely stopped going to music fans.se. The “what is this song” questions just swamp everything else.

ymb1

you can remove them from display; blacklist the tag

TomMcW

@ymb1 It doesn’t remove them from my screen, it just greys them out

ymb1

23:48

oh

more annoying

TomMcW

It ought to remove them completely, but it doesn’t

ymb1

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

TomMcW

When you read W&P will you be reading in English?

ymb1

yep

TomMcW

I’ll be curious what translation you have. There’s a theory that a friend of mine came up with and it differs between translations.

ymb1

23:51

I'll check

Louise and Aylmer Maude

TomMcW

That’s the same one I have. The strangeness is involving the character Denisov. Some people translate his speech as if he has a speech impediment, so most people take it as that. I don’t think he does.

ymb1

ask on Russian.se :D go to the source

TomMcW

Tolstoy spelled Denisov’s speech in a non-standard way. It’s the “R’s.” So I think it’s left a little ambiguous even in Russian.

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