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Federico

12:54

I was reading about the Medellin crash. can someone independently confirm this data from the AVH comments?
Range: 2909 km
Great circle between airports: 2975 km

(with storms en-route)

What I would like to find out: if that's actually the range of that model and if there is any meteorological data of the region available

falstro

@Federico Well, according to some comments, there is a fuel stop enroute... :P

falstro

13:12

though the fact that there was no fire is a slight indication they were empty too :(

Federico

@falstro uh? where?

@falstro also, from AVH:

> In the early morning hours of Nov 29th 2016 the CCAA reported, that an investigation has been opened into the crash, data and information are being collected. The head of investigation stated: "No existe evidencia de combustible en la aeronave" (there is no evidence of fuel in the aircraft).

falstro

ah, ok missed that.

don't think it was in there when I first read it

Federico

possible, it is being updated quite a lot

falstro

some of the earliest comments talk about a fuel stop; haven't looked closer at them

(remember it only shows the last 30, you have to click the link at the bottom to get all)

Could've meant that Medellin was a fuel stop though, not sure

Federico

found them:

> Fuel stop
By -HT on Tuesday, Nov 29th 2016 08:25Z

The aircraft made a fuel stop enroute on its complete way from Chapecó (XAP/SBCH) to MDE/SKRG, and that was at VVI/SLVR as shown in the flight track. Still that last sector is 1605 NM as GC-distance.

@Sergi
By (anonymous) on Tuesday, Nov 29th 2016 08:23Z

The plane did stop for a refuel, and that stop was actually in Santa Cruz. The flight originated in Sao Paulo.

@Sergi
By Matthieu on Tuesday, Nov 29th 2016 08:17Z

Hey Sir,
when you look at the radar tracks, then you'will find that there is no fuel stop displayed.

read from bottom for correct temporal sequence

falstro

13:53

ah yes, thanks

Federico

14:36

in related news, BBC messed up their flight path depiction

they picked up a glitch in the ADS-b/flightradar data and represented it as a pattern entry (showing the pattern as being flown in the wrong direction)

falstro

@Federico orly?

where do I find that?

Federico

@falstro bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-38142998

see the image towards the bottom

then compare here: twitter.com/flightradar24/status/803482522248167424

falstro

yeah, looks like a teardrop entry to me, what makes you say it's backwards?

ah yes, it's just missing the first turn, I see what you're saying

Federico

@falstro :D

falstro

yeah that makes sense.

it could also be an extremely precise teardrop entry and the hold flown backwards ;)

Federico

14:44

if you notice, both the charts on AVH and the data from FR24 show the aircraft with a 3° HDG there, but BBC depicts 180°

falstro

hmm.. did they go down right on top of the vor?

Federico

according to AVH slightly north of it, but I'd say that's close enough for BBC

1 hour later…

ymb1

16:00

@Federico hi

apparent flown distance is reduced since the tailwind carries the plane along

thus the reduced time and fuel

Federico

@ymb1 I seriously can't understand how you can claim that tailwind reduces the flight range

ymb1

@Federico TAS is still the same right? but somehow (wind, plane doesn't know it) you got there sooner

Federico

so you've extended your range

ymb1

affirm

getting there sooner for same TAS (plane doesn't know why) means a variable has changed, distance, since S=D/T are all linked

Federico

you are speaking of the apparent (as you mention here above)

from the phrasing of your answer it seemed you meant that the range got shorter

ymb1

16:03

@Federico I'll add apparent, let's clear comments?

Federico

sure

ymb1

@Federico edited answer

thanks

Federico

thanks to you for the patience

ymb1

thank you for making both answers clearer :-)

I just changed it to For example, a distance of 4,400 NM at a true airspeed of 450 knots is reduced to 3,600 NM (air distance) with an...

apparent can confuse readers more

Federico

sure, no problem

@ymb1 the distance traveled in the air is shortened maybe turning the sentence around? or adding the range is extended? for a person not from aviation the "distance in the air" might not be a familiar concept

ymb1

16:19

@Federico done, check now plz

Federico

looks good :)

ymb1

16:35

@Federico image above, reason for saying reduced distance, is you can't alter the shape of that graph

just explaining the logic behind both answers

ferry range is still ~3700 NM for standard tanks

tailwind just brings the destination closer, to fit in that fixed range

changed it to apparent range increased, agree?

link to last revision: aviation.stackexchange.com/a/33499/14897

1 hour later…

abelenky

18:07

Anyone know how long an FAA/NTSB investigation may take?
There was an accident I'm interested in that happened in April.
Preliminary report came out less than 2 weeks later, and nothing more has been published since then.

(SEL, 2 fatal)

voretaq7

@abelenky "It takes as long as it takes." (a year is not uncommon)

abelenky

Yup..... just frustrating when I go look for updates every month or so.

TomMcW

18:41

@abelenky What accident are u looking for?

1 hour later…

abelenky

19:45

# WPR16FA097
April 30th, in Nevada

1 hour later…

fooot

20:47

@abelenky Took a spin on the NTSB site... looks like the latest accident with a real final report was May 2016. On the other hand, I've been watching for a report on an April 2015 incident that isn't out yet either. Looks like about the oldest still at preliminary is May 2014.

abelenky

21:03

Interesting info.... Anything stand out about the May 2014 incident that would indicate why its taking so long?

voretaq7

21:49

The NTSB has better things to do!
<insert clip of interns playing ping-pong in the break room here>

Seriously though, I know their handling isn't strictly chronological (e.g. US Airways 1549 was probably investigated and the PC issued while a bunch of GA stuff languished), and aviation isn't all they do (they're dealing with a school bus mess right now, for example). We have, relatively speaking in NTSB terms, a lot of GA accidents but few of them are "major accidents" so they're pretty low on the priority list.

1 hour later…

fooot

22:58

Yeah, they still have a couple "major" investigations from 2011 to finish.

Shalvenay

23:36

hey there @fooot

fooot

@Shalvenay Hey

Shalvenay

re: the LaMia crash -- I'm thinking to myself "Why use Viru Viru for a fuel stop instead of an airport somewhere in you know, the north part of Bolivia?"

looking at their options for the stop

both Trinidad (SLTR) and Cobija (SLCO) seem to be possibilities according to the Great Circle Mapper, although SLCO is only about 6400' long so I'd need runway performance numbers to figure it out

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