The Hangar

Jay Carr

14:45

@Jo7 You're not coming through, I think the NSA is scrambling your signal!

Dan Hulme

15:25

well, that'll teach me to write unclear questions

StackExchange

15:38

Uncontrolled Airspace: General Aviation Podcast: "Windy City" UCAP #397

posted on February 26, 2016

Recorded on location from the 2016 Sebring US Sport Aviation Expo. What to do when it blizzards on your plane... Welcome to Sebring... New requirements for pilot training... Dave's new project... Sebring highlights... UCAP Swag... Eclipse Jet Sightings... Weird power failure... We hear from our audience... All this and more on the Uncontrolled Airspace General Aviation Podcast. Recorded January…

Dan Hulme

I got a free ride in a Fuji yesterday (single-engine low-wing monoplane)

Jo 7

16:08

@JayCarr Oh ill put it in different context Ţ̭ͥ͒̑ͮ͡ĥ̨̡̙̰̤̯̉͌͛͋͊͜͏̸̙ͯ̄e̢͚̾̍̐͢ ̢̗g̪̍o̶̗̦̬͎̎ͭ̈̈̊́̒͟͝͡͞v̙̮̯͎̲̤̩̟̼͆́͂ͮͭ̓͆͞e̛̫̼͌r̜̞͚̔̿̄́ͭ̚͝͞͠͏͚̭͚̿͜m̷̛͔̥̺̜͍̤͚͍ͭ͗̀̆͟‌̭͈͋͝ȃ̶̷̜̘̬̜̳̄̉̿ͭ͒͑̆̕͜͡ň͖̹͈̒̿͘ṱͫ̄̍́ͩ͒ ̛͖̼̿̃̔ͣͬ̕͜ả̧̾ͦ͑r̶̠̣̬͓̦͒͛́͟͜͢҉̲̆҉̡e̛͉ͨ̽͗͏҉͚̩͎̐ͮ͗́̑̕ ̴̨̤̩͔̳̦̬ͮͧ͑̀̓̊̔ͬ͟ǎ̶̝̘̹͈̻̱̫͖̒ͥͥ͠ͅf͚̎͒ͯ̕͘͡͏̞ͦ͛̚͞t̢̠̯͇͊̍̚͢͏̙͌ẹ̷̴̷͈͍̰̹́ͧ̇̇͢͝͏r҉̛ͧ̏‌̯̑ͥͦ ̢͓̺͛̓́̌̀̃̽ͩų̛̤̝̝͊ͬ͐͠ś̩̣͋͑͡ ̜̟̬̂̅̿

voretaq7

20:21

<passive-aggressive-voretaq7>Sometimes I worry that we're going to be reading about certain denizens of the (main) site in an NTSB report</passive-aggressive-voretaq7>

2

Jay Carr

20:34

@voretaq7 Can we petition to the NTSB that they include a pilots internet user names/handles in their reports so we can draw connections between the two?

egid

21:01

so i just got quoted $3400 for a Garmin GTX335W, installed

i think the guy gave me the non-waas price by accident

@voretaq7 i'm putting together my airplane budget spreadsheet

what fixed costs am i missing?

parking, insurance, annual, oil change x1 or 2 depending, ifr gps db, state reg, ifr alt/static inspection

i'm factoring in 2020 compliance as a 'fixed' cost too although it's harder to estimate

hourly is fuel, oil, $10/hr mx stash

NathanG

@egid Are you building an engine overhaul fund?

egid

engine is only a few hundred hours old, so no

for better or worse

it's likely to be sold long before we hit tbo

298 hours ago to be precise

that's tach time

voretaq7

21:26

@egid Plan on Oil Change x3 at least (one will be part of your annual), don't forget sales/use tax on the purchase.

egid

so oil change is 50-60h - it's not a spin on filter

and sales/use tax on what?

voretaq7

@egid 298 hours is <does math> $3278 into an engine fund for the hours you have :)

@egid in NY it's on the purchase price - most folks just wait until they get an invoice from the state & pay up then, but you're really supposed to pay when you close the sale :)

egid

oh, the plane is already owned, i'm pretty sure we are squared up on taxes

voretaq7

@egid yeah then you're probably fine :)

egid

anyway yeah we should have been tacking on savings for engine/misc

but haven't

voretaq7

21:28

Oil changes are 50 hours with a filter, 25 with just the screen (per Lycoming) - I'd plan on installing a spin-on filter kit though

egid

ok maybe i got the number wrong, but for previous years we've done a single change per year. i'm expecting up to 2, and not including annual

those prices get rolled in

voretaq7

just nicer for the engine, also if it starts making metal you'll find it in the filter pleats long before you find it without a filter. The screen really is only good for protecting the oil pump from "things that have serial numbers on them"

I think you hit the big fixed costs though - insurance is always a pleasant surprise (it costs less than a car)

egid

yeah

voretaq7

Cost of an oil change also depends on your level of lazy - I've been slacking and not doing them myself because safety wire and I are Not Friends.

NathanG

@egid I've always heard 50 hours or 4 months, whichever comes first.

egid

21:31

this is for 2 pilots, although because the other one isn't going to be flying much i may look into getting it just for me

voretaq7

(i.e. "I fucking hate safety wire, why the hell can't they just put a quarter-turn lock tab and a cotter pin on the fucking oil filter like CIVILIZED PEOPLE?!")

egid

i'm taking on the majority of the mx that has been previously split / managed by the other pilot

since the plane is down with me

@NathanG that may be the case

voretaq7

What kind of plane?

egid

AA-1A, 150hp stc

voretaq7

@NathanG I usually do my oil changes on hours unless I know it's going to be sitting a while with 20-30 hour oil, then I'll change it on calendar time.

Nice. I still have a soft spot for the Grummans

the two I looked at buying flew so beautifully.... but had so much other crap wrong with them they make the Cherokee rehab project look tame :P

egid

21:33

heh

yeah, this one's main problem is a shit Narco AT-150 xpdr, and a slight weight problem

voretaq7

All the AA-1s have a "slight weight problem"

and I have an AT-150, it's a perfectly fine boat anchor.

egid

well, you'd think ~50 more hp would help

voretaq7

Nope :P

egid

but while it does good things for perf

it doesn't change the spar or the landing gear

we gained 79 lb gross

voretaq7

You really don't get decent payload until the AA-5

egid

21:34

which is probably 20% taken up by the extened tanks that i don't get to fill

i would argue you don't until the 5B

voretaq7

but you can taxi around with the canopy open which is dead sexy

egid

i can carry two of me and one bag and standard tanks

which means basically only small humans

voretaq7

@egid Yeah I'm not sure what they changed between the 5A and 5B but you got a nice weight increase

egid

5B is the tiger, 180hp

think cessna or piper mtow increases with increased hp and you've got it

there's no airframe changes that i'm aware of

voretaq7

I'm awaiting the shop's squawk list from my annual (dropped the plane off this morning), I might get the new nose strut this year if they don't find any big-ticket items.

egid

21:36

same type cert

voretaq7

@egid right, same airframe bigger engine.

egid

5A is 150hp (i think?), 5B 180hp

oh, bigger tanks too

voretaq7

150 or 160, don't remember

egid

just googled, aopa says 150

aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/Aircraft-Ownership/…

voretaq7

do you get bigger tanks in the 5A? That would imply some wing change since they used the spar tube as the tank.

egid

21:38

5 doesn't use the spar

only the 1

voretaq7

("Hey, we have this big ol' hollow tubular spar! Slap two caps on the end and a pipe thread on the inboard side and we'll call it a fuel tank!" -- Grumman engineering at its finest!)

egid

and you can thank Jim Bede for that

voretaq7

5 has separate tanks? I did not know that!

We can thank him for a lot of things :)

including but not limited to:

egid

it was the BD-1 before he sold to American, who sold to Grumman, who sold to Gulfstream, who let it sit for a really long time, then somehow Tiger Aircraft got the type

voretaq7

007 Octopussy - Acrostar Jet scene with James Bond theme's Pfeiffer Bros

►

egid

21:39

heh

he seems like a total flake

but

he did build pretty great aircraft

i'm about 80% certain that Van has always liked Grummans and patterned his aircraft after them

the RV-12 flies like an AA-1 with a rotax

voretaq7

@egid oh yeah absolutely

egid

(and a stick)

voretaq7

you can tell by the wing design

(they just discovered flush riveting with the Vans aircraft, as opposed to "Let's assemble the airplane with aerospace-grade superglue")

egid

heh

is there washout on RVs?

or can they more or less flip the jigs?

voretaq7

@egid I don't think so, I think they're constant-chord (at least the 12?) so there's no need for it

Not sure if it's literally reversible like the Grummans, but I would assume it's close

egid

21:43

yeah that's what I thought

voretaq7

Still don't understand why Piper went to tapered wings

egid

marketing

voretaq7

FUCK MARKETING.

egid

OMNI-VISION

my grumman has LAND-O-MATIC™ landing gear

not joking

voretaq7

I thought that was a Cessna trademark?

egid

21:45

shit did i mix those up

hold on

ahhh shit

voretaq7

(and why the hell doesn't Cessna use those NTSB ELT videos as marketing copy? "The Cessna 172: So durable you can fucking drop it like a stone and the gear will STILL survive.")

egid

"Face-Saver"™

dropbox.com/s/0ca1mc0g6zomzyg/…

voretaq7

"Face-Saver" sounds like marketing copy for a shoulder harness :)

"And when you really fuck up at least you won't be kissing the panel!"

egid

supposedly people have put tire marks on the underside of the wing with hard landings

but i think the geometry of that doesn't quite work

you'd have either a prop strike or a tail strike or both

voretaq7

@egid I'd believe it. One of the guys at the local flying club told me a story about their Arrow - apparently it had a "hard landing" (like "severe enough to bend the spar and buckle the upper skins" hard)

egid

21:48

i've seen photos of piper main gear struts showing through the top of the wing

voretaq7

Amazingly whoever did it proceeded to fly it back to Farmingdale.

egid

where the caps are

whoa

voretaq7

That was my reaction - a buckled spar is not something you can miss on a Piper!

egid

yeah seriously

maybe he had his hood on

:|

voretaq7

egid

21:49

remove after landing at the least

voretaq7

Also something hit the Mooney parked next to me on the ramp

big ol' crush in the front of the wing, red paint transfer (not bird guts as best I could tell). Wondering if someone drove their car into it...

I'm having one of those "mmmmmaybe I want to move my tiedown" moments now o_0

Oh speaking of birds, if you don't have covers for the Grumman add that to your one-time purchase list

(I say as my second stop today after dropping the plane off at the shop was the fabric store so I can make a bird cover for the back of the cowling. Stupid birds...)

egid

canopy cover, although it's almost due for replacement

full coverage from 6" ahead of canopy to aft of wing

plugs and pitot cover

haven't ever done wing covers and we've been tied down for 9 years

voretaq7

Yeah I'm not a fan of wing covers (pain in the ass). Tail cover is worth doing if there are convenient openings back there.

If you're on a wildlife ramp like me and the AA-1 has a big gap at the back of the cowling to exhaust the cooling air through you might want to find or fabricate a plug for that. (a lovely sewing project for me this weekend)

egid

22:06

there are a lot of tiny insects

that seems to be the extent of it

voretaq7

I have not had a return of my 100LL-drinking mud wasps (that nested in the fuel drain, but not the vents)

egid

gross

voretaq7

Confusing. The shop and I both figured somehow shit had gotten into the tank (because it was when the plane was new to me) - changed the drains out 'cuz they were in lousy shape & a week later they're slow again

I had pipe cleaners in there as plugs for a whole summer, apparently that discouraged them sufficiently

Shalvenay

23:18

@voretaq7 ...the "whoops, somebody bent some metal" variety, or the "field investigator reassembling somebody's airplane" variety?

Dan Hulme

23:43

@voretaq7 so, one of the aircraft based in Cambridge got a write-up in this month's AAIB bulletin... let me find the link

assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/…

without wanting to spoil the story, let's just say the pilot made a harder landing than he realised

I made a lot of bad landings on Sunday, but at least I didn't break the airplane

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