@Shalvenay I don't think so. The 150 was airborne for about 3 minutes. The F-16 was <mental math> about 15 miles northeast of the 150 when they were first picked up by radar.

@voretaq7 that sounds right.

@NathanG -- aaah. it does make me quite wonder why the F-16 got turned south

@Shalvenay I think that'll be very important to the investigation - though we're all just speculating at this point.

aye

I can't seem to be able to load the report :|

@Federico let me tell you where I'm coming from. I believe (strongly) that we should not "hold a questioners hand", fixing issues for them. I state my issues in comment (while many do not) and EXPECT the QUESTIONER to be interested enough in fixing them. The question, at least how it is at this moment including whatever edits you made (I did not look), does not specify world-wide, or european, or us, or in fact any small or large grouping.

@Federico further, while I now understand your opinion about it not fitting 'too broad' and in fact may agree with that, it is still unclear. The OP should ask the question he means to ask, and fix the problems as they are pointed out.

I don't think so, as I open nomally other pdfs :/ (also, the link posted here is not exactly "direct" as it goes through google search first)

lol, fair, it has a couple of waypoints. Let me see if I can get a better link...

Yes, it does.

It is

Pardon... Yeah, I was having a really hard time finding it again for whatever reason.

no problem

this morning both link were basically dead. now both work fine. :/

huh...weird

@casey In reference to your answer, does it mean that this is possible: PPL -> CPL -> ATP?

@Farhan youll need an IR before ATP

and a commercial is pretty useless without the instrument rating

I knew it, but I guess this sentence was causing the confusion: The ATP rating itself grants instrument privileges.

@casey So essentially it's like: "I will only come to work if the weather is beautiful."

@Farhan it does. you won't have an instrument rating anymore once you have an ATP

before ATP it would say INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE under Ratings:

It doesn't mention about PPL either.

because I dont have any category/class ratings at that privilege level

my ASEL is at commercial and AMEL at ATP

notice my certificate level is ATP, and that thing under ratings excepts ASEL from the privilege level of my certificate

if I took an ASEL ATP ride, that "COMMERCIAL PRIVILEGES" line would be deleted

and if I took an ASES private ride, they would add "PRIVATE PRIVILEGES" and under that "AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE SEA"

@Farhan Commercial w/o instrument means "I'll show up on beautiful days and fly people in a 50NM sightseeing circle around my home airport"

(or I'll go crop dust / tow gliders)

yep, very limited

it allows you to do more than just charity sightseeing rides

@ratchetfreak yea, but unless you have your own airplane you aren't going to find many people willing to hire you

unless you have a monopoly on a certain location

even VFR part 135 requires an instrument rating :)

@ratchetfreak not much more if you have passengers. I can't think of any "sighseeing" I'd do within 50NM of Republic either except the hudson corridor. Most of the other cool stuff is >50NM away

(and I think THAT'S out of range if you're based at Islip)

The specific limitation you'll have on your CPL without an instrument rating is "The carriage of passengers for hire in (airplanes) (powered-lifts) on cross-country flights in excess of 50 nautical miles or at night is prohibited."

@casey Yeah, all the interpretations I've seen of that take it to mean "You're on a 50NM tether if you have passengers" (though I suppose you could argue "if I came back to my starting point it wasn't a cross-country flight!")

that is my understanding as well

and the FAA would probably take a dim view of you if you were hopping cross country at 49 mi increments

and probably find a reason to throw a part 119 violation for not having an operating certificate.

@casey yeah, I think they would count that anyway - I mean technically you can do your entire private in a Piper Cub, you'll just have a lot of short legs on some of the XC flights...

yep

@casey I thought there was something about not being able to land at an airport other than your point of origin too, but I could be misremembering (or the source I read it from could have been wrong - can't remember where I saw that bit).

@voretaq7 that is probably a limitation of sightseeing ops in part 119

one of the few things you can charge for being a CPL not under an operating cert

yes, that sounds right.

something to the effect of "You have to bring your passengers back where they started"

in reality it just makes sense to get an IR before your CPL. You need a bunch of XC time and at least 250 hrs (part 61) so you might as well fly part of it under the hood with a CFI and pick up the IR on the way

yeah, the instrument rating is actually useful to me. The commercial is something I'll probably do for fun (well except the paying to rent a complex airplane part, that's not fun) and because I'd need it for the CFI if I ever do that.

> (2) Nonstop Commercial Air Tours conducted after September 11, 2007, in an airplane or helicopter having a standard airworthiness certificate and passenger-seat configuration of 30 seats or fewer and a maximum payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less that begin and end at the same airport, and are conducted within a 25-statute mile radius of that airport, in compliance with the Letter of Authorization issued under §91.147 of this chapter.

start and end at the same airport on a 25 mile tether. 119.1

@casey "You can't fucking go anywhere. You might as well just taxi them around the airport, there's more to see there."

yep

seriously, the northern part of the Hudson corridor is 26 miles from FRG so even that's out unless you fly it with ATC and get turned out of it early.

@casey I was just looking over the requirements to get a CPL (for fun) and noticed that the hours requirements say: "100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in airplanes". Does that mean you can log 50 of those hours in an ultralight? ;)

Not necessarily aviation related (well, it involves the sky), but I thought some of you may enjoy this: vimeo.com/133202655

@JayCarr nope. 61.52

lol, well, there you go then. I expected not.

I do wonder what "non-airplanes" they are referencing.