The Hangar

Federico

06:52

yeah, fooot, DeltaLima and me, we are on top of all review queues :P

Federico

07:53

I have issues with this question/answer: http://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/16924
To me the question is about pitot tube and the answer (accepted!) is about engine inlet cones. dafuq?

SentryRaven

I guess someone got a bit "accept trigger happy" there :D

Federico

just a tiny bit "happy"

Jay Carr

15:21

@casey I'm a little confused by the links you are putting on voretaq7's answer? What exactly are you trying to say? I'm aware of the proficiencies required, I'm just wanting to know if those proficiencies can be proven in a single engine ultralight aircraft...

Like this one for example: quicksilveraircraft.com/mx-sprint.php

I figure maybe if you bought one with proper instrumentation, but was still light enough to be an ultralight...

casey

@JayCarr "airplane single-engine" doesnt mean a flying thing with wings and one engine. It refers to a an aircarft having the category "airplane" and class "single engine". Ultralights are not "airplanes"

3

Jay Carr

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh

It all comes together in my head.

I've only ever looked up the definition of "ultralight" as a subclass of "airplane" but it sounds like that's not the case, eh?

Is there a place that defines exactly what an airplanes is then?

casey

and the pre-solo regs I post say you must have training and be signed off in category and class, so you cannot be endorsed for solo flight in an ultralight

Jay Carr

Or is it more of "well, we can't say exactly what it is, but here are a few things it's not..."

Okay, that makes sense.

I mean, I could still fly one (since you don't need a license) but as voretaq7 said, it won't count towards a PPL or anything

casey

@JayCarr you can't use any of toward PPL. PPL needs 40 hours with at least 20 dual and 10 solo (the other 10 can be either).

Jay Carr

15:27

And I'd also suppose if I had a PPL that flying an ultralight wouldn't count towards my currency would it?

(if that's the right term...)

casey

also, 61.52 is the trump card you seek, and not in your favor

ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/…

@JayCarr prior to jan 2012 you could use ultralight time to meet requirements of certain sport pilot certificates

so, for now, you might get some stick-and-rudder skill in an ultralight, but from a regulatory point of view it is worthless toward any ratings

and notice the reg refers to ultralights as "ultralight vehicles" and not "airplanes"

Jay Carr

@casey lol, it feels like a weird distinction since they aren't using their "lightness" to fly, but rather are using a wing... But from a rules standpoint I can understand that.

I keep thinking that the difference was really in instrumentation, but I think if I got proper instruments and whatever else I needed, I'd then need to register it. And at that point it really isn't an ultralight (since the point of an ultralight is you don't have to go through the same rigorous process a full airplane does.)

So I may be able to change a particular frame, that started as an ultralight, into an airplane of sorts. But then it's not an ultralight, and that kind of defeats the purpose.

Is that logic sound @casey?

fooot

15:50

Part of having a PPL is being able to fly pretty much any small aircraft (with some limitations), right? I don't think time in an ultralight should qualify you to fly something like a small Cessna.

voretaq7

@JayCarr Regulations aren't supposed to be sensible!

Jay Carr

@voretaq7 When I come to power, my first act will be solidifying the definition of the tomato as a fruit.

casey

@JayCarr to do that though you'll have to get the airplane registered as experimental/home-built and once that regulatory hurdle is crossed you now have an "airplane". You most likely won't be able to get instruction in that experimental due to other regulatory hurdles (especially if it still only has a single seat)

Jay Carr

@casey lol, which would render it completely pointless.

casey

true

but at least once you had the PPL you could fly it cheap and log the time toward something else or just building total time

voretaq7

16:00

@casey the regs on "instruction in" are kinda funky - you need to be signed off for each make and model but it looks like you could receive instruction in a "similar" make and model & pass a pre-solo written for the one you're going to fly (?)

Jay Carr

If I'm honest the master plan was actually this: Get enough lessons so I can solo, then fly an ultralight for fun and leisure. Then hope that the ultralight time can count towards the actually PPL. But clearly not.

casey

@voretaq7 you could probably do that, but iirc there are some other things that come into play for experimentals that might complicate things

Jay Carr

I still might go with the first part of the plan (assuming it's a good plan...)

voretaq7

@casey Yeah, for starters it would need to pass flight tests & fly off the 10 (I think?) hours before anyone but the test pilot can get in it (and the test pilot needs a PPL or better).

Stack Exchange

16:45

0

Q: What to do about answers that are outdated

There are a few questions poking around the site where the answer has changed with time (regulations changes, new technology, things like that.) I'm wondering what ought to be done when that is noticed? Especially in scenarios where people are leaving comments about how the answer has changed...

discussion

Jay Carr

@voretaq7 The particular question that brought this up was:

76

Q: Can Microsoft Flight Simulator help me learn to fly (or make me a better pilot)?

Microsoft Flight Simulator has "flight lessons" with a virtual flight instructor, some of which teach concepts that are taught during actual flight training. These simulators are becoming very realistic, and I can see them being helpful as an introduction to a subject prior to running the hobbs ...

flight-training flight-simulator

I commented on it a while ago that the comments regarding radios probably doesn't apply anymore buuuut.... Well, my theory is a bit subjective and nothing has been done.

Farhan

@voretaq7 I think this wasn't intentional.

Jay Carr

Maybe I should put those thoughts on the Aviation Meta, but I feel bad using a single example because I don't mean to call out the person who answered that question...

voretaq7

@Farhan no, dog was intentional. But I don't care enough to revert the edit :)

@JayCarr Examples are always good (for that case I would just edit the answer to retain the statement that they may not be great for radio practice, but that options exist & link to VATSIM & PilotEdge)

Jay Carr

17:01

@voretaq7 So you'd say that adding some of your own content is permissible in some situations?

voretaq7

@JayCarr If it doesn't radically change the intent of the answer, yes. I'd still leave in that flight simulators may not be the best tool to practice radio technique (because unless you hook up to something like PilotEdge you can just fly around in Class B airspace all day without ever talking to anyone)

Jay Carr

@voretaq7 So basically at that point your saying, "well, a stock simulator not so much, but with a plugin, it could work well for radios."

Though, honestly, "with a plugin" seems fairly arbitrary since we are talking about simulation in general, and not a particular simulator.

voretaq7

@JayCarr simulation in general needs something (someone) to talk to :)

those Level C simulators can only say a few words out of the ~~box~~ shipping crate. "Stall", "Airspeed", "Terrain", and "Nice 'landing', asshole." are usually on the stock voice chip.

Jay Carr

Level C simulators are kind of touchy, aren't they?

Kind of makes me wonder what GladOS would be like as the warning voice on an airplane...

voretaq7

@JayCarr <slow clap> Oh good, your shitty landing didn't damage my slow-clap processor. So at least there's still that.

ratchet freak

17:26

@voretaq7 I don't think "shitty" would be the adjective, "bouncy" or "terrible" would fit more

voretaq7

@ratchetfreak "You banged it on so hard the waste tank ruptured!"

Jay Carr

GladOS: Excellent work, the mechanics had been hoping to remove the landing gear after your landing, but you appear to have done that for them.

The mechanics will be grateful, good job.

voretaq7

@JayCarr "Remember that time you tried to kill me twice? In one landing? That was fun. The mechanics like replacing Cessna firewalls."

Jay Carr

Those were good times....

(I love portal, I'll have to beat it again this weekend I'm thinking.)

voretaq7

I'm thinking I need to design a TAWS system with Ellen McLain's voice.

"Could you possibly not fly us into that mountain?"

Jay Carr

17:31

Be careful though, as the designers of "Poker Night at the Inventory 2" found out the hard way: writing for GladOS is hard...

voretaq7

or GLaDOS as a controller: "I have that clearance you wanted. <really fast playback>. There. Now as you're flying along just play that back at 1/10th speed and you'll be all set."

Jay Carr

I think the secret is that it has to be 10% outright insults, 20% sarcastic cruelty and 70% backhanded compliments...

ratchet freak

getting the balance just right and the variation is a pain

Jay Carr

All I know is Poker Night at the Invetory 2 got it veeeeeeeery wrong.

voretaq7

@JayCarr there's a certain amount of existential angst in GLaDOS too

especially in Portal 2 "How are you? I'm in a potato."

Jay Carr

17:33

lol, couldn't possibly imagine why that would be...

I think anyone, given that situation, would be suffering from some amount of existential angst.

voretaq7

I'm regretting not bringing my flight bag to work today

Jay Carr

Nice day in NYC?

voretaq7

@JayCarr upper 70s, winds ~8G15 or so depending on where you look

which means by evening it'll probably be calm winds and the next round of weather isn't due for a while.

Jay Carr

Visibility?

voretaq7

@JayCarr unlimited at the moment

tomorrow it'll be back to hazy and terrible

Jay Carr

17:39

That's what I like to hear...

It's about the same out here in MO, makes me wish I had my license... Soon.

voretaq7

Saturday looks nice too but we're apparently getting a TFR because someone important likes to fuck up the airspace.

Jay Carr

Seems like that'd be really common in NY, right?

voretaq7

@JayCarr usually the VIPs are considerate enough not to fuck up the weekends too badly

but yeah we get a lot of "Within the lateral limits of the NY Class B Airspace, from the surface to 17,999 feet, just stay the fuck out."

Jay Carr

I'm guessing that means if your plane is on the ground in that area, it's staying there.

Do TFRs apply to commercial traffic as well? Or can they get clearance?

voretaq7

@JayCarr You can come and go out IFR (or on a Defense VFR flight plan)

all the details are in the ALL CAPS SHOUTING BECAUSE WE MISS OUR TELETYPES part of the NOTAM.

3

Jay Carr

17:45

Is this the President flying in or just some other high ranking official?

FreeMan

@voretaq7 That's a lot of shouty bits!

Basically, sounds like PPL get out. If you're making money in the air, as you were...

Jay Carr

It's like being a Marine in bootcamp.

Lots of shouty bits

voretaq7

@FreeMan THE FAA IS VERY ANGRY!

@FreeMan airlines have better lobbyists

Jay Carr

Seriously, what is the AOPA doing these days anyway?

voretaq7

@JayCarr It's the president - some Democratic Party fundraising stuff going on in Manhattan.

@JayCarr They hold fly-ins... that I missed all of this year because stupid weather :(

Jay Carr

17:48

Ooo, that is pretty nifty.

Do you recommend membership in the AOPA?

Once I finally get this "I'm finally getting my <bleep>ing license!" thing going?

voretaq7

@JayCarr eh.... I don't not recommend it :-)

Jay Carr

Any groups that would be wise to join with?

voretaq7

a lot of the stuff they used to just throw in with the membership is a separate thing now (like the legal services plan)

casey

@JayCarr depends... if you have a need for their medical or legal services it could be worth it

voretaq7

so it's not the "Hell yes!" value it used to be, but it's still somewhat useful

@casey I think the medical stuff might be separate too now?

Jay Carr

17:50

Why would there be a need for medical or legal services? Just...you know, in general.

casey

@voretaq7 wasn't aware of that, certainly decreases the value

voretaq7

A lot of testing centers offer a discount if you have an AOPA (or EAA) membership.

@casey they rolled a lot of it into Pilot Protection Services

casey

@JayCarr if you have any issue that might cause a deferral of your medical, it helps to have people that know how to you a medical

Jay Carr

I don't think I do, I guess I should look into that though.

voretaq7

it's still a good deal if you need the assistance - the medical stuff alone is worth it if you've got to deal with that.

EAA is a good bang for the buck still (and that gets you the ability to camp at Oshkosh if you ever make it there :P)

Jay Carr

17:51

What about legal? Why might you need that? Is it kind of like insurance, just incase you break some obscure regulation and are getting angry messages from the FAA?

Shoot, I'd join the EAA just to go to Oshkosh, just once.

voretaq7

@JayCarr it gives you a lawyer to call if you bust a reg who actually knows the FAA regulations and processes

casey

@JayCarr if you do something that gets the FAA's attention it can help to have representation

a lawyer might be the difference between a slap on the wrist and a suspension or worse

Jay Carr

Sounds like me and speeding tickets...

And lawyers...

Anyway.

So, that might be worth looking into.

But it's a seperate thing from AOPA now, right?

voretaq7

as opposed to going to your local lawyer who gives you bad advice like "Don't show the FAA anything" and then you get a letter in the mail that says "Yeah, now we're suspending your airman privileges until you come to the FSDO and talk to us."

Jay Carr

How about the EAA do they include it?

voretaq7

17:53

I don't think EAA does the medical & legal stuff - AOPA invested a lot in that infrastructure

Jay Carr

@voretaq7 Yikes...good to know. Get an aviation lawyer, not a regular one, if things go...poorly.

Well, I'll have to look into it. I certainly have no planes to fly a plane in a way that would break any rules (unlike me and my car and speeding and stuff...), but it would probably be a good thing to have incase I do something inadvertant.

voretaq7

@JayCarr or just exercise some common sense and don't tell the FAA you won't show them things the regs say they're entitled to see :)

Jay Carr

Fair 'nuff

casey

:)

Jay Carr

Are there other groups that are really good to be involved with? Or maybe other services I should buy into? (For like maps, sectionals, weather, things like that.)

voretaq7

17:55

Speaking of the FAA: depressing news from yesterday - Our FAASTeam manager at Farmingdale passed away

Jay Carr

I'm sorry to hear that.

voretaq7

@JayCarr Weather's free, go outside and take as much as you want :-)

casey

weather is free. digital maps are free but the paper ones will cost money. you will want paper maps.

Jay Carr

@voretaq7 looooooooooool, thanks GladOS

Why paper instead of digital (like on my iPad or something?)

voretaq7

@casey or you'll want nice digital ones (Garmin Pilot, Foreflight) which aren't free but aren't too expensive.

@JayCarr I'm a big fan of learning with the paper, at least at the beginning

casey

17:57

weather suitable for navigation planning is at aviationweather.gov/adds and DUAT(S) is free as is a call to a briefer.

the fancy ipad/android apps are not free though

voretaq7

@casey one of the two (DUAT/DUATS) lost their contract apparently?

casey

@voretaq7 im not up to date on that. I don't even remember which is which

voretaq7

Lockheed-Martin invested a lot of time in 1800wxbrief.com which is pretty slick now too.

Jay Carr

@casey So if I don't mind them not being "Free enough" the iPad apps can still be useful I'm guessing?

casey

@JayCarr i dont have an ipad, no idea

voretaq7

17:59

@casey yeah I could never remember which was CSC and which was DTC, and then Lockheed-Martin spun up their own site which is easier to remember :)

Jay Carr

lol, @voretaq7 Do you use a tablet when flying?

casey

ive only flown with paper charts

voretaq7

@JayCarr I use my iPad - DO NOT use a full-size iPad in a GA cockpit (worst decision I ever made was not waiting for the mini)

it's entirely too large to be convenient

casey

i definitely prefer the form factor the ipad mini / nexus 7 to the bigger tablets

voretaq7

I did all my training with paper though, and for any kind of flight where I can't see my destination from top-of-climb I fill out a paper flight log. If it's somewhere I've never been before I'll print out a chunk of sectional for the end of the route too.

(I am however terrible about filling out the flight log in flight)

Jay Carr

18:04

I actually really prefer the iPad Mini just in general. I'm big enough that I can just palm it, which is my preference.

I just really don't care for big, unweilding pieces of paper in the "control space" if you will (so, the front of the car when driving, the cockpit when flying). But I guess that's why people do sectionals, to avoid the giant fold out map problem.

casey

sectinoals are giant fold out maps, but when in the cockpit you generally just fold it into a smallish square in the area you are flying in

Jay Carr

Fold out maps...we've never really gotten along.

voretaq7

Using a paper map is a skill lost to my generation

properly re-folding said map is a skill... oh you know what just give it to me before you ruin it. :P

casey

@voretaq7 thats the best thing about aviation charts, the expire! you can misfold it all you want and you'll end up replacing it before it is destroyed :)

well I guess technically VFR sectionals don't expire, but they do get regularly reissued

Jay Carr

I still think I'd rather use my iPad, less messy.

NathanG

18:13

I've never gotten the hang of sectional (un)folding in flight - I just ended up folding in half and flipping when I get to the border.

Jay Carr

But, when I get into training, I may change my mind (possibly seeing problems with that approach that I wasn't aware.)

voretaq7

@NathanG With most GA aircraft you're not going to run off 1-2 squares of re-folded sectional before you need to stop for fuel anyway :)

NathanG

At this point, I would argue that my EFB reduces distractions and makes me a better pilot.

Jay Carr

EFB?

NathanG

@JayCarr Electronic Flight Bag. In this context, I mean my digital charts.

Farhan

18:15

Electronic flight bag

Electronic flight bag (EFB) is an electronic information management device that helps flight crews perform flight management tasks more easily and efficiently with less paper. It is a general purpose computing platform intended to reduce, or replace, paper-based reference material often found in the pilot's carry-on flight bag, including the aircraft operating manual, flight-crew operating manual, and navigational charts (including moving map for air and ground operations). In addition, the EFB can host purpose-built software applications to automate other functions normally conducted by hand,...

Jay Carr

Ahhhhhhh

voretaq7

@NathanG I would argue I'm much safer using Foreflight than paper charts (GPS position on the map, traffic alerts on the map, no chance of the sectional being sucked out the window…)

Jay Carr

Do you use Foreflight? I was using it with X-Plane for a while and it was nice in that context...

NathanG

@voretaq7 Yeah, at this point my only real concern with it is making sure that the DPE is happy with that when I do my IR checkride.

voretaq7

18:34

@NathanG the DPE who did my private had no problem with the electronic charts, I planned the flight out both ways (paper and electronic) but we flew it with the iPad.

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