yeah, engine failure to stall to Vmc roll is the likely suspect -- we'll see what the recorders bring, though

really says something about pilot training, though, that an airliner'd go down that way in this day and age...did their V1 cuts get cut?

@Shalvenay VMC and V1 cuts are different animals

/me is starting to get discouraged about question title quality on Aviation.SE.

aviation.stackexchange.com/users/167/…

@casey -- yeah, I'm just saying "how do you flub up engine failure drills that badly?"

@Shalvenay are you ME rated?

Meh. Sunny skies tomorrow, I've got a day off, plane is booked.. And the forecast says a crosswind of 13kts gusting 27. Great. :(

@falstro welcome to my world

Our grass strip is still not dry enough after the winter snowfall and melting. Anyone got a blow-dryer big enough for 650x15m ?

@SentryRaven just pave it over, or replace with gravel

Not an option unfortunately... :/

@DanHulme 13kts crosswind I can do, 15kts gust factor I'm not so sure about. :(

Is it only me who finds that an incredibly rude way of pointing out a typo?

@falstro I think it's ok. Could have done it differently, but it's not offensive or rude to me.

@SentryRaven Ok. I think it is, the assumption of stupidity really ticked me off.

On second thought: The user has enough reputation to suggest an edit. This makes me a bit more inclined to agree with you now...

Yeah, well, the rude flag was declined. I tried not to respond in kind, but I doubt he'll get the message. :p

@SentryRaven except you can't suggest single letter edits

@ratchetfreak so you don't think it's rude either is what you're saying?

@falstro it is but leaving a comment was the only way for him to notify you of the typo (assuming he doesn't know you are in chat) and he may have a pet peeve about it.

@ratchetfreak For sure it's a pet peeve; and sure he can leave a comment. Had it been like "minor typo it's=its", I'd have edited and that'd been the end of it. Instead he assumes I'm an imbecile and goes on a rant about it, not a great way to make friends :p

Or he lost his keys and you got the brunt of his ire

@ratchetfreak or that

also: stackoverflow.com/posts/24700640/revisions

his activity show he is a very active editor

@ratchetfreak yep, and often on things like this

@ratchetfreak his activity show he is a very active nitpicker

there ftfy

@Shalvenay Vmc unfortunately has a non-intuituve recovery and if your multi training was deficient its an easy way to kill yourself. Recovery from loss of directional control by flying slower than Vmc is to reduce thrust on the operating engine and lower the nose to regain airspeed. In combination those will allow directional control and you can then add thrust to the operating engine to regain normal single engine flight.

Down low if you botch the initial recovery you'll end up on your side or upside down before you know it.

@casey "With full power applied to the operative engine, as the airspeed drops below Vmc, the airplane tends to roll as well as yaw into the inoperative engine. This tendency becomes greater as the airspeed is further reduced...

...Since this tendency must be counteracted by aileron control, the yaw condition is aggravated by aileron yaw (the "down" aileron creates more drag than the "up" aileron). If a stall should occur in this condition, a violent roll into the dead engine may be experienced. Such an event occurring close to the ground could be disastrous. This may be avoided by maintaining airspeed above Vmc at all times during single engine operation. ...

...If the airspeed should fall below Vmc - for whatever reason - then power must be reduced on the operative engine and the airplane must be banked at least 5 degrees toward the operative engine if the airplane is to be safely controlled."

@rbp the reason for the uncontrolled roll is the torque moment of the operating engine overcomes the rudders ability to balance it

if you reduce the thrust on the operating engine, you regain rudder authority and can control roll

then you need to either add partial power and point the nose down to regain airspeed

yes

<<-- no multi

ah, I was typing that before the last bit come across the line

Vmc demo is the most important part of multi training, in my opinion

demo only? or does the student fly

instructor demonstrates then student demonstrates, repeatedly

instructor always does that one until the student "gets it"

as the entry into uncontrolled roll is pitching up to lose about 1 kt of airspeed per second (thats what we used anyway)

that way the onset is slow, noticeable and easily recovered.

some students want to just yank on the controls and that would be bad

that is the one time a truly yelled at a student. I felt bad about it afterwards but after my demos he gets setup for the manuever and just pulls back as hard as he can as I'm manhandling the controls yelling a combination of "MY AIRPLANE" and "ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL US?" :/

after that he understood it wasn't a fun and games manuever anyway

its funny -- there are some motions you need to do slowly and some fast. get them mixed up and ....

i got my balls busted a month or so ago for suggesting that in a departure stall to pitch for Vglide.

the alternative was to "aggressively push the nose over"

which i find absurd

@casey - we still use 1kt/sec

i do not like these ATR-72s. i'm not sure if its the aircraft, the typical mission, or the people who operate/fly them, but they seem to have had a lot of iciing accidents, too

re: Flying in the Raw. check out the VNY LDA-C approach flightaware.com/resources/airport/KVNY/IAP/LDA-C

compared with Burbank's ILS /LOC Z 8 flightaware.com/resources/airport/BUR/IAP/ILS+OR+LOC+Z+RWY+08/…

they both use the same localizer I-BUR

and share waypoints

@rbp The ATR-72 has an unenviable safety record. Probably because it's French. <eyes Airbus suspiciously> :-P

Could someone look at youtu.be/gqPhNCyrR-E : is he "diving for the runway" ?

@CGCampbell I don't think so

@CGCampbell nope

Looked like a perfectly fine landing (perhaps a bit windy that day) to me

I favor of steeper approaches with lower power on windy days, it means that when you flare, the plane stops flying and the wheels plant

easier in some planes than others :)

thanks all ... back to videos :c)

@CGCampbell you might as well just never scroll down to the comments

no-one who knows what they are talking about ever get enough thumbs up to stay on the top

I most generally don't...they almost always turn into us/them rants of some stripe...

as far as my question about this particular video, it wasn't comment caused or related, I watched it and thought it was a more then usual altitude correction, which my father would call 'diving for the runway'

@CGCampbell that's not even close to diving

the only time you really have to dive for the runway (or farmer's field) is if you have no engine

otherwise better to go around if you're too steep

the commercial checkride requires a power off 180-degree landing, and touch down with 200ft of a pre-determined spot

if you're too long, you may have to dive some, but its best to get it over with higher rather than close to the runway )

@rbp I don't agree with that statement even a little bit.

clearly he already knew that it existed, and by rolling it back you confused the issue. Please don't do that.

His question was why don't other airspaces have that?

Adding that quote to your answer doesn't answer the question at all. The definition of the airspace gives context to the question. Hence why I put it there.

I've rolled it back to the way it was.

I also think you should consider addressing the question in your answer rather than just further describing what the airspace is. You briefly touch on it in a comment.

roll roll roll your boat... :)

I think there's a lesson here: don't tell a moderator you rolled back their edit. Just do it behind their back and hope they don't notice.

:D

noted

@BretCopeland by the way, is it possible to see who declined a flag somehow?

or would that spur too many questions?

I don't think so. But, I mean, it would have been one of four people.

yeah? it's limited to the SE?

actually, I can sort of lookup who processed what flags, but it's a bit painful.

yeah, sure, I wasn't asking you to

@falstro limited to moderators.

@falstro If there was a snarky comment it was me

otherwise it's one of 3 people :P

@voretaq7 handles more flags than the other three of us combined, so just blame him for everything.

(my most common decline comment is "It's an answer. It's just a {BAD/WRONG} answer. Downvote it.")

@BretCopeland ok, so they're not spread across all moderators for all SEs then

no, only Aviation moderators.

@voretaq7 was this one:

@BretCopeland I'll tell you a secret - I've got a script with an oauth token that just does rand() % 10 and if it's <8 it deletes whatever post was flagged :P

Some employees also have mod privileges, but none of them have exercised them on aviation in the last three months. (except for me)

@falstro doesn't look familiar. But fix your grammar or I'll beat you sensible with a copy of Strunk & White :)

@voretaq7 :) it was genuinely a typo, I know my grammar

@falstro In that case I'll beat you with a Model M keyboard.

(which is more durable than my 15 year old copy of Strunk & White)

@voretaq7 I have one of those, don't break it

Also if Siri doesn't stop miscorrecting its to it's I am going to drown her again.

@falstro Silly user, you cannot hurt a Model M keyboard!

I've put mine through a dishwasher.

:)

(just take the keycaps off first)

@falstro I returned his favor.

@fooot hah!

tip of the hat to ya, didn't have enough time/energy/rage to do that myself ;)

@falstro the comment was deleted. Did you actually get a notification that your flag was declined?

@BretCopeland yeah

it's listed as declined in my profile

@BretCopeland I still saw it 2 hours ago.

at that point I added a comment asking him to drop the assumption of stupidity next time (wasn't all too snarky about it, a bit sarcastic though I suppose), both were zapped a while ago

Well, I don't know what happened then.

@BretCopeland no sweat, I calmed down long ago ;)

oh, I'm gonna find out what happened, just you wait.

;)

@BretCopeland Unicorns.

Well, I can see who declined it via direct db queries, but I'm not gonna rat them out. I also have no idea why. Who knows, could have been a mistake. The way the UI is designed, sometimes it's hard to tell what the flag is.

@BretCopeland no worries, there are no hard feelings, just curiosity

@BretCopeland Direct DB queries not beginning with the keyword DROP are considered cheating!

(direct DB queries beginning with the word DROP are considered fun.)

I always connect to the read-only slave. I don't think it'll accept my drop commands.

@BretCopeland I discovered today that CREATE TEMP TABLE is forbidden on our read-only slave.

This made me sad.

@voretaq7 huh, that makes no sense?

what rdbms?

@BretCopeland (also your primary shouldn't accept your drop commands either - you're not one of those heathen companies where everyone connects as sa are you?!)

@falstro Postgres

interesting

@voretaq7 I don't know, let me go try DROP on the primary.

well, where I'm working now, we don't even have a ro slave ;)

@falstro streamling replication slaves are strictly read-only (I think that's still the case in 9.4, definitely is in 9.1)

yeah I think it is

but a temp table isn't even in the same namespace, so there's no real reason

or maybe it is on postgres?

@voretaq7 we all have owner privileges, so yeah, we could call drop.

@falstro it doesn't have to be, but it DOES have to be given a transaction ID

and the slave can't h and out transaction IDs so no temp tables for you!

They revoked sa privileges because some idiot decided to rename a database.

@BretCopeland This makes me sad :(

@BretCopeland . . . this makes me sadder. Because it means at one time y'all WERE a heathen "everybody is sa" company

@BretCopeland haha

on a production server?

select * from idiots where idiot != me

a couple of years ago I had a coworker who forgot the where clause on a delete statement

No, it was on our dev tier, but it still set off alerts for our sysadmins and Nick Craver came storming in looking for vengeance.

autocommit -> booom

that was production

@BretCopeland only vengeance?

@falstro Delete statements should always be wrapped in an explicit transaction block for this very reason.

anytime I run a query which is going to alter data on a live db, I wrap it in a begin/rollback block and see how many rows it says were affected before swapping that to a begin/commit.

(also update statements and pretty much anything else that makes a change)

If Postgres would let me wrap DML in a transaction I'd do that too!

@voretaq7 I loathe autocommit

regardless

ok, selects are fine, but everything else should be in a transaction

if nothing else it takes the load off the I/O if you're doing a lot of statements

@falstro Eh, I don't mind it for inserts

@voretaq7 single manual inserts fine, just don't make a typo. :) autocommit in an sql script is a definite no-no

and it's not a tragedy in Postgres because you can pull the transaction ID and revert "mistakes" - it's just a pain in the ass to do it.

(and it becomes impossible if the row is later modified)

@falstro Yeah, no script or program should autocommit.

@voretaq7 I'm trying to convince the lead dev at work that autocommits are a bad thing(tm). I'm starting to make some progress.

(pretty much all our transactions are autocommit)

bleh.

oh huh, did you know center-clicking on the refresh button in chrome opens a new tab with the same address? I'm not sure if that's useful, but my newest accidental discovery.

That's news to me but I don't use Chrome :P

same in ff apparently :)

I'm taking bets on whether the weather will be shit on Saturday and knock my flight review back a few more days

ugh, I should really try to go flying this weekend.

@voretaq7 skies are looking great for tomorrow, I've booked the plane and taken a day off.

Then I noticed the wind forecast... 13kts crosswind, gust 27

(It turns out I do indeed have magical gay weather control powers like those crazy church people say: I can make the weather shitty just by planning to fly!)

:)

@falstro Perfectly fine leaving weather :P

snow this weekend huh?

@BretCopeland FUCKING GROUNDHOG!

yeah, I'm going back in my hole.

See we have a problem now though. Groundhog Day & Candlemas were both Monday. The groundhog went back in his hole which means a longer winter. But the weather was shit, which means an early spring.

So now we have contradictory weather lore.

@voretaq7 I think this means science has failed us.

@BretCopeland WITCHCRAFT IT IS.

I'll start by sacrificing a groundhog.

When navigating with a VOR, it's normal for the CDI to swing back and forth - perhaps a dot on other side - and you just fly the average - right?

Depends on the VOR. Some of them are awful.

I don't trust BDR at all.

Ah, so it's a transmitter thing rather than inherent to the technology.

I've seen others that are rock solid.

it can be both.

I've never seen one that hasn't done it - and I count BWI amongst them.

@BretCopeland I don't have much trouble with BDR once I'm north of it.

I think there's something environmental screwing that one up

I don't have much trouble with BDR once I tune to a different frequency.

@BretCopeland that's a good solution too :P

My CFI said that VOR got flooded back when Sandy happened, and it hasn't been the same since.

Yeah BDR was under water for a while. Wouldn't surprise me if the VOR was damaged in the process.

Pretty sure it's on the list of VOR's the FAA would like to shut down.

I know if I'm south of Bridgeport it's twitchy, seems OK north but that could also be because I'm usually further out

Is there a name for that? I want to ask the question of why that happens - but my google-fu fails me. I can't find a discussion of it anywhere.

@BretCopeland I think it is on the list actually. Deer Park is on the "Keep" list

anyone going flying tomorrow in NYC count me in

:)

@BretCopeland i don't understand why you care one way or the other about this question aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/12262/…

@rbp I explained why I thought those changes were bad. They obscured the fact the question wasn't actually answered by pretending that the context of the question was an answer. Again, the fact that he said that it's non-regulatory and not charted means he clearly understood what the airspace is. That wasn't his question.

From the OP's comment, I get the impression he accepted your answer, not because he thought it was the answer, but because he came to an answer on his own, and simply didn't care anymore.

Also hence why I was encouraging you to actually address the question in your answer, rather than simply restating what the outer area is.

If the question had been "I've heard Class C airspace has an outer area. What is it?" Then your answer would have answered that well, and I wouldn't have put the AIM quote in the question.

I went to an interesting lecture tonight about the A350 flight test programme, by one of the pilots

I say "interesting"; he didn't actually explain a lot, and spent a lot of time playing the videos Airbus made

but it was a good overview.

@DanHulme "All we did was load an 8-inch floppy into the computer in the avionics bay and sit there like dumb monkeys while the computer flight-tested the plane for us" <--?

@voretaq7 actually, he didn't say that at all

@voretaq7 Naturally the computer said "all good, everything perfect, nothing to see here."

@fooot "Both engines swallowed geese. Everything's swell. No, you can't have thrust right now."

oh, yey, 4k rep.

so just had my first code-golf style interview, that's an experience.

@falstro Now you are trusted ;)

@Farhan indeed, ten minutes ago I was a shady fella who deals crack on the corner

@falstro Ah, so now you are a trusted fella who deals crack on the corner

@Farhan right

@BretCopeland do you do code-golf style interviews at SE?

What do you mean by that?

like here's a problem, write a function that solves it

yeah

interesting

they're really rare over here

how do you know if someone can code if you don't ask them to write code?

I'm usually not looking for someone who can write code, but someone who can develop software :)

We start with a "easy" interview which probably 80% of candidates fail.

then several more involved coding interviews, which have similar falloff rates.

I had 6 interviews.

1 code screen, 2 dev interviews, 1 dev interview with VP of enigneering, one non-technical interview with a product manager, and lastly a short one with Joel.

yeah, I'm not sure if I passed this one, it's easy to get like a mental block in situations like these, got one this time too. And it's always so frickin' embarrassing :P

@BretCopeland You ask them the difference between String and StringBuilder and that tells it all.

no, we specifically don't ask trivia questions.

and we don't have any requirement for candidates to have experience in C#

@BretCopeland I do see your point. I guess I just need to do a few more to get bit more comfortable in the setting before I apply for SE then ;)

@BretCopeland I specifically ask people obscure Unix questions.

If they can't answer them I have to really interview them. If they can the interview will be much easier because I know they've seen enough weird shit that they're probably competent.

SRE interviews are a little different.

You're probably going to get quizzed a bit on systems and networking stuff.

We actually require our SRE's to pass a code screen as well.

@BretCopeland The answer is "George rolled over the network cable and the wheels of his chair cut the wires."

(Seriously, why do rolling chairs have such narrow fucking wheels? If they were big fat rollers they wouldn't DESTROY network cables!)

@voretaq7 I thought it was the cleaning crew that needed somewhere to plug in the vacuum cleaner...

(I actually had that happen a couple of times)

@Farhan I can't help you with the second one. As for the first, 2/3 of our developers work remote. We by no means require people to move to New York.

@falstro "…and that's why we use twist-lock 208V power for all the servers"

@BretCopeland do you help people find accommodation if they do?

@falstro Sleep on the trains. 24x7 transit system has its advantages, and it's the cheapest apartment you'll find at $2.50/day :)

@voretaq7 sweet deal!

@falstro yeah, they paid for my relocation from Idaho.

I'm not so much worried about moving costs as finding a place to stay

We'll pay for a hotel for a short period, and we kick in a portion of a broker fee.

I skipped the hotel and just stayed with a friend for my first month and a half.

@BretCopeland do you sponsor H1b visas too? or am I out of luck from the get go? ;)

And then I started dating one of his roommates and no longer had to sleep on the couch... and that's how I ended up with a girlfriend in New York.

hah :)

@BretCopeland "You're just dating me for my bed!" (hashtag-#ThingsYouOnlyHearInNewYork)

@falstro officially we don't sponsor visas, but it's happened once. Most of our international candidates end up working remotely as employees of the UK subsidiary.

"I love you baby, you're so close to the subway!"

Now my place is the one which is convenient. I live at the Fulton stop which pretty much allows you to get to any train you want.

@BretCopeland Ok, meaning I'd have to exceptionally good. I have enough experience to know I'm quite a ways above average, don't know if I'm that good though. Too bad.

You wouldn't be interested in working remotely for a while?

For a while sure

But I've done that long enough (one year) to know it's not something I'd like to do for an extended period of time, and I'm getting really tired of this part of the world :P

Where are you from originally?

Sweden

Grew up in Sweden, lived a year in Ontario, Canada, been moving back and forth between Sweden and Germany for the last 8 years, and I was working remote to Rīga, Latvia for a year

I could ask around to see what the scenario would be. I think if you're looking for an immediate sponsorship the answer would be no, since the one experience we've had was not good. Not because of the candidate, but because of the US Government.

If on the other hand, you were interested in working remotely, and let getting a visa take its long course, then that's more realistic.

oh yeah, that's something I could live with for sure

If there's something I do have it's patience ;)

@voretaq7 (note the correct use of it's) O_o

@BretCopeland The US government made something painful and difficult? THE HELL YOU SAY!

@voretaq7 yeah, h1b visas are really weird

they have like a cutoff date in april which will grant you entry in october or something, and is valid for a year and then you have to start over again

actually, the one guy we tried to sponsor still hasn't gotten his h1b. He got some sort of cultural exchange visa that allowed him to come here for a year and a half, and now he has to go back this spring and live in France until we can finally get a permanent visa or green card for him.

@BretCopeland ouch

The entire H1B program is protectionism at its finest.

"Yes, we'll let you hire that qualified foreigner. But we're going to make it so difficult you'll prefer to hire the Burger King fryolator cleaner and train them to be a software engineer. It'll take less time and cost less money than dealing with the visa process."

@BretCopeland I'd definitely be interested though, if you think there's a chance

@falstro It is for 3+3 years, not one year.

@Farhan oh really?

I thought it was one year

Yes, 6 years baby.

what's the + in 3+3? :)

If your employer files for your green card by/before the 5th year, you will start getting one year's renewals, unlimited number of times.

ah, I see

@falstro H1b is for 3 years, and can be renewed for another 3 years. So essentially it is for 6 years.

But since the government has to eat, they have fees for stuff.

very high fees

define very high :)

@BretCopeland That's true, but there are not too many perks in working at home, expect outfit of my choice.

@falstro Well, apply if you want to. I would make it clear that you would ideally like to move to the US long term, but that you understand it's a long and painful process to get a visa, and you're interested in working remote until such time that that's possible.

If you wanted to move to London, I hear it's easier to move there and work, and maybe even has benefits for the visa process. I don't really understand how it all works.

Also, a word of advice on writing a cover letter. Make sure it's not a generic garbage cover letter. We get thousands of applications, and anything not targeted to us gets rejected without a second glance. You're applying to Stack Overflow, so say why you want to work at Stack Overflow.

(or Stack Exchange, but half the time we still call ourselves SO)

You've got over 17k rep on SO. Definitely link to your profile.

@falstro In fact, with that kind of rep, I could probably get you in the door to talk to a recruiter for free. I'll send Joe (head of recruiting/HR) an email if you want me to.

@BretCopeland That would be so awesome, I've got a day off tomorrow, so I'll update my resumé and get back to you. I can definitely type up a cover letter too (I never apply for a job I don't want, so my cover letters are always targeted), but I won't say no to some help :)

@BretCopeland If someone doesn't have that kind of rep, the recruiter needs to be paid to talk?

@Farhan In order to get interviewed you have to bribe the recruiter with rep.

@voretaq7 damn it corruption

@casey -- not a pilot -- thanks for the insights btw :)

@Farhan how do you think we support this free site?

in-interview purchases

@BretCopeland Prostitution Sponsored Tags :-)

You get 5 minutes to solve this problem. Need more time? Not a problem, enter credit card information here.