@SentryRaven @kevin @CGCampbell @Lnafziger (and well everyone else) - We've got an on-topic page now (about time I got off my ass and did that).

It's mostly a C&P of the meta answer - if anyone notices typos or has suggestions on small fixes ping me (or any of the other mods).

(Big fixes or sweeping policy changes should get another Meta post)

Can diamonds see deleted comments? I'm almost positive I left a comment on this question explaining my close vote, but now I don't see it.

@SteveV. I probably zotted it along with a bunch of others on there to clean it up

it had some ungodly number of comments & triggered the automatic flag-bot

@voretaq7 Neat. I have one nitpick, the "Passenger aspect" might be a bit broad, technical passenger questions could still be fair game I think (cabin pressurization, a/c packs, "what's this I see out the window?"). I understand what you're referring to (basically, air travel questions), and I don't know if it'll ever be interpreted the wrong way.

@voretaq7 I agree with @falstro. I like the topic summary and the list of what is ok and what is not ok. Maybe we should add some examples to the items in the list? 1-2 per item?

Add the examples of "How can I get more frequent flyer miles?" and "What can I do if my flight is delayed or cancelled?" ?

@voretaq7 the mooney factory in kerrville tx has been pretty much shut down for 5+ years. i think they made one acclaim last year. the company was bought by a chinese concern, and they putting out press relesase about delivering "B" registration planes

B = Chinese registration prefix

@voretaq7 excellent (on-topic) .. we'll need to separate the legal we will do (FAA/EASA et all) from the legal we won't

@SentryRaven The problem with adding too many examples is it makes the page into a wall of text (but adding them to the "passenger aspects" bullet point might be sensible)

@rbp China is (potentially) a much larger market than the US. They're really pushing to establish some kind of aviation infrastructure. (Also Re: Ownership, Continental is owned by a Chinese conglomerate now too -- are we writing them off?)

@voretaq7 whether in Kerrville or in China, you have to be actually making airplanes! you can't do touch-and-gos in a press release

@rbp they are making airplanes - granted not a lot, but nobody's making a lot (except Cessna and Piper when the universities order for their fleets)

they're turning out 2-3 a year right now

sad

Indeed. I'm optimistic for Mooney though with their new diesel trainers

I doubt we'll see them in the US for a good long while but I expect them to be popular in China and Europe

(I've said it before and I'll say it again: If they came up with a STC'd 180HP diesel that didn't outweigh my O-360 I'd consider converting at overhaul time)

Got my yoke and pedals today, yey. And I realized, I really need to fix the pedals to the chair :P

@falstro just don't try to land in a crosswind and you'll be fine. :-)

Oh hey you wanna see something scary?

@voretaq7 or taking off with in a single engine prop :)

@voretaq7 scary? like proper scary? :)

@falstro scary scary

Pictures of the rudder pedal assembly from a new Piper service bulletin that came out last Friday

uh oh

I was like, what is that... exhaust manifold? no wait, it's a rudder pedal assembly O_o

how the hell did that happen?

@falstro Combination of a design flaw (notice how the weld is unsupported) and stupid pilot tricks (like trying to turn the nose wheel while the plane isn't moving).

@voretaq7 I'm not much of a welder.. what does it mean that it's unsupported?

I haven't crawled under to see if I have the "rudder straps" (little reinforcing plates they weld over the spot that rips open) yet. I'm usually really big on complying with sensible service bulletins but even I'm taking a "Yeah, we'll just check the weld every annual" approach to this one.

@falstro The way the tubes are welded together all the stress is taken by that welded joint, so any torque applied (for example when a pilot mashes on the pedal like an angry gorilla) is transferred through the weld into the tube. The tube flexes, work-hardens, and eventually rips open like you see there.

ah, makes sense, thanks

and the solution would be to weld like some sheet metal on there to take some of the stress off?

@falstro yup, and re-anneal the tube to relieve any stress that's been created.

ah, yeah, that makes sense too. :)

But to do that you have to take the torque tubes out (and to do THAT you basically have to disassemble the flight control system because the T-bar for the elevator/aileron controls is in the way)

So I'm hoping when I hang my head under there I find the straps are installed, but if they're not I'm not doing it until something breaks or they make this an AD because I'm really sick of disassembling my plane :P

yeah, I can imagine that being a bit of pain

@falstro There are very few "bad decisions" in the Cherokee line. I might have to add this to the list :P

@voretaq7 what's at the top of the list? :P

@falstro "Let's rivet bare steel fittings to bare aluminum structural elements (wing spars)"

A/K/A "Let's Build A Battery!" or "Corrosion Central"

heh

Hey, these planes were not supposed to last nearly this long. I'm sure they thought they would all be scrap metal by now.

@BretCopeland THEY USED PRIMER ON THE COMANCHE!

Back then, they probably thought singles would be supersonic by now.

(I think the new Warriors/Archers/Arrows get sprayed before they rivet the fittings together too)

@BretCopeland Then they saw the fuel burn from Concorde and decided slow might not be so bad after all…

Well, the Concorde was super efficient at Mach 2... just not any other speed.

:19879859 Because I pulled most of the numbers involved out of my ass :)

@voretaq7 I guess I need to develop the habit of reading the top first.

@voretaq7 Is the paint shop (working on your plane) at FRG?

@Farhan HWV

With how tight space is at FRG I don't think they could do another shop

@BretCopeland didn't the concorde burn like a metric ton of jet fuel just taxiing out to the runway?

and for people wondering, a yoke and pedals does indeed make a huge difference for flight sims. I can actually to a proper slip now :)

except of course for the fact that I haven't secured the pedals, so they're actually getting in on some of that slipping action too :p

@falstro Excellent practice for when your rudder pedals unwind in a crosswind!

@falstro yeah, I think literally around a ton or two depending on how long the taxi was.

@BretCopeland "If we have to wait for a departure slot we're going to need to refuel!"

@falstro I don't have any non-rolling chairs in my apartment, so using rudder pedals is essentially impossible.

I believe Concord got preferential taxi treatment at JFK. Maybe other airports too.

@BretCopeland I can't imagine it working unless it did (at least in the US) :)

@BretCopeland Chocks? :)

@BretCopeland I'm going to strap the pedals to the chair, then newton's third will take care of the rolling around the problem :)

You going to strap the yoke to the chair too?

Just consider the rolling chair a simulation of the Cessna seat track failure problem :)

(an AD on the rolling chair will be proposed shortly)

I had the seat in a Cirrus roll back on me right after takeoff.

@BretCopeland O_o aren't those planes... ya know... NEW?

It doesn't latch as conclusively as you'd like.

@BretCopeland So that means Concorde generates a lot more revenue sitting in museums than flying.

@BretCopeland not a bad idea, but i don't need to, it takes more force than the yoke can muster to move the chair (or almost, I reckon with the pedals attached, it'll sit tight)

hasn't failed on me yet though so it must be good enough

@Farhan Concord made lots of revenue flying. It just didn't make so much profit.

This question appears to be answered in the question itself.

[This question] eh

@Farhan To be fair, he says he's a layman speculating and asking for someone who actually knows something to answer :)

@falstro His pros and cons list is extensive enough.

@Farhan but he doesn't know if they're actual pros and cons

@falstro They should still be in an answer :)