The Hangar

egid

00:33

That pacific near miss blog post was appalling.

flyingfisch

@egid i know, wasn't it?

the craziest claims I have heard in a long time

his story isn't even consistent

egid

I love that he supposedly quotes the pilots :/

flyingfisch

weightless while descending at 600 fpm

egid

why would they say anything?

flyingfisch

yeah i know, and was he sitting in the jumpseat or something?

egid

00:52

In lighter news, great flying weather this weekend in the Seattle area. :)

voretaq7

@egid I can quote the TCAS system: "Descend. Descend NOW. HEY ASSHOLE I REALLY DONT WANNA HIT THE OTHER JET SO PUSH THE DAMN STICK ALREADY!"

(and this is why I'm not allowed to program the TCAS voice messages.)

egid

That's basically my role as a CFII

s/jet/cessna/

voretaq7

As a CFII you can push the stick for them. (Idea: connect TCAS to stick pusher motor.)

We had great flying weather here too - aside from the "whack your head on the ceiling" turbulence that appeared from nowhere for like 45 minutes

(at least my right seater was another pilot - one of those "well, we could climb another 3000 feet and be above it.... but by the time we get there we'll be ready to start our descent for lunch so just slow down and take the occasional smack")

falstro

06:45

Good morning.... and I'm off to get some more entries in my logbook.

Federico

06:58

@flyingfisch I don't know. I am actually torn about that close vote as well. probably pilot or equipment or something along these lines

@falstro enjoy!

falstro

10:08

@Federico they were out of fuel, so I had to settle for a shorter trip. :)

Stack Exchange

11:53

0

Q: Use of Acronyms in questions & answers

Related: Using acronyms in tags Aviation is full of acronyms and abbreviations, some are quite common and therefore understood by most people(eg, ATC). Others are more specialised, and will probably not be understood by people outside of certain areas of aviation (eg, FAF). What do we think sh...

Stack Exchange

12:56

This Day in Aviation: 19 May 1934–18 May 1935

posted on May 19, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

19 May 1934: The first flight of the Tupolev ANT-20 Maxim Gorky. This was the largest airplane of its time. Designed by Andrei Tupolev to carry 72 passengers, the giant airplane was operated by eight crew members. Used primarily as a Soviet propaganda tool, it also carried a powerful broadcast radio station, a printing shop, and loudspeakers. Constructed […] The post 19 May 1934–18 May 1…

This Day in Aviation: 19 May 1949

posted on May 19, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

19 May 1949: Martin JRM-3 Mars, Marshall Mars, United States Navy Bureau of Aeronautics serial number (Bu. No.) 76822 flew from the Alameda Naval Air Station on the east shore of San Francisco Bay, to San Diego Bay, a distance of approximately 450 miles (725 kilometers). On board, in addition to the flight crew of […] The post 19 May 1949 appeared first on This Day in Aviation.

This Day in Aviation: 19 May 1959

posted on May 19, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

19 May 1959: The first Boeing 707-436 Intercontinental, FAA registration N31241, made a 1 hour, 11 minute first flight from Renton to Boeing Field, Seattle, Washington. The -436 was a stretched version of the original 707-120, but with Rolls-Royce Conway 508 bypass turbojet engines (now called turbofans) in place of the standard Pratt & Whitney […] The post 19 May 1959 appeared fir…

Stack Exchange

13:22

This Day in Aviation: 19 May 1963

posted on May 19, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

19 May 1963: During a non-stop flight from Andrews Air Force Base, outside Washington, D.C., to Moscow, Russia, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, a Boeing VC-137C, 62-6000, under the command of Colonel James B. Swindal, United States Air Force, set 15 Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI) World Records for Speed Over a Recognized Course. Colonel Swindal flew the […] The post 19…

allquixotic

14:26

hey guys

I'm taking my first trip on an aircraft that I remember (I'm told I was taken in a helicopter for some kind of scenic tour of the bay when I was 3 or 4, but I have no recollection whatsoever) on Saturday morning. Southwest Airlines 737-700. Mah ears are ridiculously sensitive to pressure changes. Any suggestions for how to prepare?

I've always had a fear of flying due to the risk of a catastrophic crash, but I've mostly overcome that. Now I'm just afraid it's going to hurt my ears like the dickens when we get up high. Anyway I see it as an adventure. I know it's nowhere near as pioneering as landing on the moon or being the first to fly across the Atlantic, but still, it puts me in the class of people who have at least experienced the most modern transportation we have :P

ratchet freak

learn to pop your ears, pinch you nose and blow until you hear the pop

the biggest damage comes during decent when the airpressure increases

the other way tends to take care of itself

allquixotic

@ratchetfreak damage? :S

ratchet freak

I have taught myself to pop my ears on demand because I got annoyed by the popping sound when I swallowed

well where it hurts the most

allquixotic

@ratchetfreak I always get the popping sound when I swallow. well, almost always. I have like, chronic sinusitis or something. my sinuses are literally never clear

ratchet freak

having one sinus clogged while the other is free is actually normal

Nasal cycle

The nasal cycle is the (often but not always) unnoticeable alternating partial congestion and decongestion of the nasal cavities in humans and other animals. It is a physiological congestion of the nasal concha due to selective activation of one half of the autonomic nervous system by the hypothalamus. It should not be confused with pathological nasal congestion. Although various aspects of the nasal cycle have been studied and discussed in the ancient Yogic Literature, in the modern western literature, it was first described by the German physician Richard Kayser in 1895. Description ...

allquixotic

14:36

going up to the higher stories of a tall building is extremely painful for me... can't imagine how much worse a plane is going to be

i may have to hit myself with a valium and be like "lol watever im asleep"

they'll have to carry me out :P

ratchet freak

if you can get it on demand without swallowing your life will get much easier

allquixotic

well I've had dozens of ear infections, tubes in both ears twice, had my adenoids removed twice (they grew back), .... basically I saw my Ear, Nose & Throat doctor more than my regular doctor or even my dentist while growing up

ratchet freak

wow

otherwise chewing gum and yawning will also pop your ears

Farhan

@allquixotic don't get any food if they are asking for money in return. ;)

@ratchetfreak Wasabi chickpeas?

allquixotic

@Farhan unless I'm put under general anesthesia before I board, I'll probably be screaming my head off too much to be worrying about food

voretaq7

15:13

@allquixotic the general advice is to chew gum (because it makes you salivate, and thus swallow - and it's easier than explaining the Valsalva maneuver)

ratchet freak

or getting used to opening the eustachian tube

allquixotic

I think if I can handle fitting Earplanes into my ears, I'll be OK

> Some people learn to voluntarily 'click' their ears, together or separately, when deliberating doing a pressure equalizing routine by opening their Eustachian tubes where pressure changes are experienced (as in ascending/descending in aircraft flight, mountain driving, elevator lift/drops, etc.). Some even are able to deliberately keep their Eustachian tubes open for a brief period, and even increase or decrease air pressure in the middle ear.

I've been able to do that my entire life almost effortlessly

ratchet freak

then you will be fine, just open it up when you start feeling the pressure

casey

15:31

@voretaq7 I never knew that maneuver had a name, its the only thing that keeps my head from exploding during my oft-repeated pressurization cycles I put it through

voretaq7

@casey The things you learn in dive school :-)

casey

:)

voretaq7

(along with "Don't go jump in your f$!*ing plane right after coming up from a deep dive, you'll probably regret it in a hurry.")

casey

but flying the plane while experiencing the bends would be a very memorable experience, why avoid it!

I'm always impressed by the vastly different pressure changes between the atmosphere and water

go up a few hundered thousand km to lose 1 atm, go down 33 ft to gain 1 atm

ratchet freak

it's all about density

casey

15:34

yes, the 1000:1 difference thereof

allquixotic

I would like a solid, closed head made of rigid crystalline matter, and a body that "breathes" solids. hook up a block of solid carbon or something into a socket to breathe.

casey

@allquixotic I'd like eyes that were wired better and could see more than just the visible specturm

allquixotic

@casey problem: look at sun -> OOOOO PRETTY -> gamma rays -> blind

ratchet freak

@casey but then that would be the visible spectrum

@allquixotic not really the atmosphere blocks a lot of light outside the visible spectrum

casey

@allquixotic looking at the sun will already make you blind, no difference there

@ratchetfreak true, i'll rephrase that as "i wish I could see more than ~ 400 - 750 nm"

allquixotic

15:38

@casey except the sun is actively unpleasant to look at given that we perceive a brightness in the visible spectrum that's painful to look at; I imagine if you could see a wider spectrum it would be a lot more aesthetically pleasing, especially if your sensory perceptions toned down the perception of its "brightness" in the visible spectrum

casey

@allquixotic I imagine if my eyes were intelligently designed by someone who knew something about E-M, I'd have filters for that installed :)

voretaq7

@casey I've had the pleasure of having to go back down and sulk on the bottom because I didn't time my ascent correctly - I'd definitely like to avoid that in the air :P

casey

►

voretaq7

@allquixotic Why not be a fish? :)

flyingfisch

I just wish i was a peregrine falcon.

casey

15:42

@voretaq7 that's something I would not want to experience

flyingfisch

diving at 200+ mph is cool

casey

I'm scarred enough by flying with blocked sinuses, you can keep the whole-body stuff

:)

voretaq7

@casey I'd like to see down to about 300nm

allquixotic

@voretaq7 we basically are already. "ugly bags of mostly water!" -- the microbrain created accidentally on ST:TNG

voretaq7

@allquixotic I'm jealous of the fish. He's always lording it over me with that whole "ability to move freely in 3 dimensions" bullshit. "Oh, look at me! I'm the fish! I can float up and down staring at you waiting for my breakfast! HURRY UP AND FEED ME!"

allquixotic

15:45

@voretaq7 imagine if you could see up to about 30 cm waves :D you'd be able to see my cellphone receiving streaming music from my desk (~ 1 GHz give or take a few hundred MHz)

coworker: "can you turn that off? the waves are bothering me"

voretaq7

@allquixotic people already complain about that and they CAN'T see it :P

allquixotic

@voretaq7 yeah, but none of my coworkers are tinfoil-hat types, and my headphones are closed-back, so yeah

casey

or seeing at 2.4 Ghz, that would be a mess.

allquixotic

@casey no thanks -- that would be a travesty

voretaq7

@casey Escape to the forest, far away from shitty WiFi!

allquixotic

15:46

I wouldn't be able to see anything BUT 2.4 GHz in my house

ratchet freak

@casey you'd be blind within the day

voretaq7

@allquixotic I have one 2.4GHz access point. Because my iPhone is old.

casey

@voretaq7 water radiates at 2.4Ghz, you wouldnt be safe there either

allquixotic

@voretaq7 my room's network is 5 GHz (phone is my primary internet connection, and wirelessly tether-hotspots my Nexus 7, laptop and desktop), but downstairs is 2.4 GHz

also I believe my Steelseries H Wireless is 2.4

casey

@voretaq7 I still run 2.4 Ghz at home, because my wifi equipment is all very old and I have my box of cat-5 to use with anything I really care about

voretaq7

15:49

@casey something something 90% humidity something something "lose 3 meters of WiFi range!"

allquixotic

shit i have to work

casey

@voretaq7 basically :)

allquixotic

too distracted by thought of my head being turned into spaghetti

voretaq7

@allquixotic It's not spaghetti - it's more like an egg in a microwave!

allquixotic

gee, thanks. even worse visual

voretaq7

15:51

seriously though: Chew gum on the way up and down.

casey

peeps in a microwave is the visual I like

allquixotic

@voretaq7 chew gum, pop ears voluntarily using the "push ear muscles" maneuver (I can do it hands-free), wear Earplanes, and take a valium... got it.

voretaq7

@allquixotic You can also talk to your ENT guy about surgery, but I'd definitely save that for a last resort :)

@casey is that anything like twinkies in a microwave?

allquixotic

@voretaq7 surgery of what kind? what exactly could they do other than roto-rooter my entire head? I mean... my sinuses were just built wrong

casey

@voretaq7 not as eventful as that, peeps just grow in size, and keep growing

allquixotic

15:56

it's like my parents' genes mutated to produce a person who can only somewhat tolerate their sinuses at sea level

casey

@allquixotic my sinuses are built wrong also, but I manage

voretaq7

@allquixotic they basically slice a hole in your eardrum and insert drainage tubes (which equalizes the pressure, but the eardrum heals and the tubes eventually fall out so not a permanent solution)

casey

they were wrong before I started flying, and flying only made them worse

allquixotic

even going to Denver on a train caused me untold amounts of pain

@voretaq7 had 'em twice. BTDT.

casey

@allquixotic only fly on 787s, they only depressurize to 6000'

allquixotic

15:58

@casey I know that, and I'd love to only fly on 787s, but my flight's already booked for this coming Saturday on a 737-700; no 787 will take me where I'm going because it's too short a flight (1 hr)

I was really, really hoping my first flight would be on a 787 and I'd have a pleasant experience, but nope, going to friggen Milwaukee -_-

ratchet freak

you could take the bus

allquixotic

already tried to talk other_ppl_coming_with_me into driving, busing or taking a train, but "it's too dangerous" or "it takes too long"

I just hope SWA is safe and knows wtf they're doing

ratchet freak

they wouldn't be allowed to fly otherwise

allquixotic

well, I mean, JetBlue had tons of incidents for years and was allowed to keep going

tail strikes, poor maintenance, some fatalities, yet keep on truckin'

ratchet freak

well depends on how bad the incidents were

voretaq7

16:03

@ratchetfreak ...he said eh wanted a pleasant experience. I'm not sure which sucks more - ear pain, or Greyhound :/

@allquixotic "Eat the blue potato chips at your own risk." (Seriously, those things are narsty)

allquixotic

@voretaq7 I'm actually fine with any mode of ground or sea transportation; I particularly love trains, but I have no qualms whatsoever about being behind the wheel for 8 hours at a time

ratchet freak

then split up you go by ground and they go by air...

allquixotic

lol

not practical in this case

I'm really hoping "don't fly" is not the only solution for me

hey, could I lease a pressurized astronaut suit from NASA?

ratchet freak

or seal your ears completely

allquixotic

pressurize it at sea level, wear it on the plane, then depressurize it sloooowly to whatever the destination altitude is (AFAIK I'm landing at a place that isn't particularly higher than where I am now at about 50 feet above sea level)

617 ft -- that's not enough to bother me at all

ha ha a NASA flight-certified suit costs 12 million USD

do you think they'd let me fire my RCS thrusters inside the plane? :D

Farhan

16:18

@allquixotic If you could afford $12 million, then Milwaukee will come to your doorstep.

Lnafziger

If you can afford $12 million, you could get a private jet and have them descend at whatever rate was comfortable for you, lol.

Or stay low where the cabin doesn't drop below seal level pressure.

fooot

Reminds me of this recording... youtube.com/watch?v=SwLTOYKOVFU

allquixotic

16:37

@Lnafziger would it be legal to fly a plane that low, though?

you have to have a certain ground clearance or ATC goes nutso, right?

clearly the reason all planes don't fly that low is for fuel efficiencies and to reduce some of the sound pollution for the businesses and homes you're flying over, but if I could afford a private jet that flies just high enough to make the authorities happy and no higher, I'd do it ;p

fooot

@allquixotic Could be a good question

As long as you're above the minimum safe altitude, for the area, and there are no ATC restrictions (airport airspace or similar), you can do it

When planes have maintenance issues that keep them from pressurizing, they have to stay low if they need to fly somewhere to be fixed

Crossing the Rockies can get tricky

allquixotic

16:53

@fooot heh, I crossed the Rockies by train

my ears still got completely clogged even though the change in altitude was VERY gradual

Lnafziger

17:04

@allquixotic Sure, most jets can maintain sea level cabin pressure up into the mud 20 thousands of feet.

flyingfisch

there is mud at 20,000 feet?

fooot

@flyingfisch could be, if you are in the right mountain range

allquixotic

@flyingfisch if there is, we have a problem ;D

@Lnafziger I thought they upped it to 6000-10000' pressure to reduce stress on the engines and airframe?

flyingfisch

@fooot Yeah, suppose so :D

allquixotic

oh Boeing Y1 how I long for thee

(Y1 is the 787 equivalent for the narrow-body market, so Southwest will undoubtedly pick them up to replace the 90s-era 737-700)

fooot

17:10

@allquixotic The inside pressure can be 8000 feet when the outside pressure is 35000 feet, so if you descend to 25000 or so, the inside pressure could be 0 feet

allquixotic

@fooot do they gradually back off the amount of artificial pressurization to deal with that? because hitting sealevel pressure inside the craft after spending an hour (or more) at 8000' pressure could be jarring to the eardrums of passengers

and then i guess it would be even higher pressure than sealevel below 25000 if you kept it constant? O.o

user35386

17:23

@allquixotic Look up the "valsalva maneouvre"

user35386

Also, it's a bit of a misnomer to talk about ears "popping". More accurate would be ear clearing. Ear popping is a rupture of the eardrum, which (hopefully!) isn't happening every time the pressure equalizes during ear clearing.

user35386

I know somebody who has a popped/ruptured eardrum, and they don't have any pressure issues because there's a hole in the ear drum

Farhan

@fooot There is no mountain that high in the contiguous US.

You can get into a lot of mud if you fly over Olympus Mons (height 69,649 ft).

allquixotic

17:44

@Articuno ugh, no. that's so painful. and there's apparently a chance it can rupture your eardrum

@Farhan that's one tall mountain! yeesh

ratchet freak

@allquixotic stop pressing when it starts to hurt

user35386

K

fooot

@allquixotic they are designed to gradually pressurize from takeoff to cruise

user35386

@allquixotic From The Mayo Clinic, "to avoid a ruptured or perforated eardrum [...] use the Valsalva maneuver".

user35386

But, your sinus issues may contraindicate the valsalva... I don't know that, though.

user35386

18:00

The only contraindications for the valsalva maneuver that I can find are cardiac related.

user35386

Anyway, it sounds like you have a way of ear-clearing that works for you, so that's good.

allquixotic

@Articuno it's pretty ineffectual for rapid changes in pressure, I've found, but it works fine when climbing or descending mountains in land vehicles

basically, sitting right here in my office, just by thinking about it, I can move some muscle in my ear or on the side of my face that causes my ears to gently pop

I can not do it or do it completely at-will

I don't even have to open my mouth

user35386

But, there should be no pressure difference after the first clearing

user35386

Can you do it time after time?

allquixotic

well I can do it an infinite number of times

it's the same exact sort of pop as if I were changing elevation, but just a lot quieter and less severe

if I try I can do it as frequently as twice a second

user35386

18:04

Have you used that to ear-clear during a change in elevation?

user35386

Or is it just that it sounds the same as what happens during a change in elevation?

allquixotic

@Articuno combined with chewing gum, yes, but it only reduces my pain by like 5%, and that was driving in a car

user35386

Then, that's not ear-clearing

user35386

Which makes sense that you can do it repeatedly just sitting there

user35386

If it was ear-clearing, you would only be able to do it once

user35386

18:06

That explains why it doesn't really help reduce pain during elevation changes, because it's probably not actually equalizing any pressure

allquixotic

I probably have some permanent pressure delta in my middle ear (because my ears have been damaged and punctured and stuff so many times) that I can constantly do a mini pressure equalization

ratchet freak

combine it with the Valsalva maneuver for maximom effectiveness

user35386

oh! what about this... get a private pilot to fly you in a non-pressurized aircraft :)

ratchet freak

no that is worse

getting up to cruise would mean pressure change

user35386

they could fly low, at like 5000 ft. instead of the 8000 ft cabin pressure

ratchet freak

18:09

instead use a pressurized craft at sealevel cabin pressur

user35386

oh that would be ideal

user35386

true

user35386

there are some routes that only get up to about 21000 feet. any reason why the cabin wouldn't be pressurized at sea level for those flights?

allquixotic

@Articuno I looked up my route they go up to like 45k ft

ratchet freak

or use a portable hyperbaric chamber and aircompressor

allquixotic

18:11

How about these? anyone have any experience with them?

I'm pretty sure they don't work in conjunction with the valsalva maneuver because the way they're designed is to prevent a rapid pressure change from the ear to the environment or vice versa, and the valsalva seems to do exactly that

but they may make it unnecessary to do that

user35386

"Before Inserting, pinch nose and blow"

user35386

So, before using, you have to do the valsalva maneuver

allquixotic

before...

but not during the flight or landing?

ratchet freak

actually those prevent change in pressure outside while valsalva is forced change inside

user35386

no, like before putting them in your ears 1 hour before landing

ratchet freak

18:13

the eustachian tube is what prevents rapid change inside

user35386

Before Inserting, pinch nose and blow. For best results, ALWAYS insert EarPlanes one Hour BEFORE landing. Remove AFTER landing and when cabin door is opened. Chronic sufferers may ALSO insert EarPlanes just BEFORE takeoff. EarPlanes may be removed when the airplane reaches MAXIMUM altitude and reinserted one hour BEFORE landing. For maximum results, use your opposite hand to pull the top of your ear upward. Insert the ribbed end and turn like a corkscrew until snug.

allquixotic

> one hour BEFORE landing

one hour flight. so I don't remove them during flight. I can live with that.

user35386

I don't understand how these work.

user35386

One hour flight and you're up to 45000 feet/

user35386

?

user35386

18:15

weird

allquixotic

idk, maybe I misread the report or maybe it was wrong

how high would you expect a 737-700 to go for a 639 mi ~1 hr 05 min flight, then?

starting altitude ~130 ft above sea, ending altitude ~630 ft above sea

why would you ever need to perform the valsalva maneuver at your natural ground level though? I don't see the point of doing that before you insert them

user35386

more like 30,000, but that doesn't change the situation for you

allquixotic

it's like. you've been at X ft for years and years of your life; you'd assume your ears are at the same pressure as the surrounding atmosphere

user35386

@allquixotic I don't see the point of a ground-level valsalva maneuver either

user35386

that's one thing that confused me about how these things work

user35386

18:19

I also don't understand even the pre-insertion valsalva maneuvre at altitude

allquixotic

@Articuno I guess a ground-level valsalva forces an equalization between your ears and ground level, which could be useful if your ears are not currently equalized before you put the plugs in

say, if you do a bunch of flights in succession

ratchet freak

it causes a overpressure at altitude to minimize difference with ground

user35386

Here's an example flight

user35386

because presumably, pressure has equalized if you're not feeling weirdness in your ears (pressure equalizes much more easily on elevation gain, than on elevation loss)

user35386

737-700, 1 hour 16 minutes, filed altitude 30,000 feet

allquixotic

18:20

oh ok 30k

but inside the cabin we won't feel any worse than 8k

user35386

@allquixotic right

allquixotic

so it really doesn't matter as long as it's flying above 8k, which any commercial airliner would

user35386

according to their website, what those things do is slow down the pressure change inside your ear

user35386

they don't prevent it

allquixotic

@Articuno yes

user35386

18:23

Okay, I understand that now. Still don't see the point of the valsalva.

allquixotic

it's the instantaneous change in pressure that causes pain the higher it is, not so much the absolute pressure

user35386

If these things work as they claim they work, I don't see the point of the valsalva.

allquixotic

people living in Denver don't live their lives in constant pain, nor do people at sea level

it's the rate of equalization that can cause pain or ruptures

reducing that rate as the earplanes claim should solve the problem

ratchet freak

it's the difference in pressure inside and outside the ear that causes pain

user35386

no... because valsalva is instantaneous equalization and doesn't increase risk of rupture

ratchet freak

18:24

@Articuno depends on how you do it

if you keep pressing then you can rupture your eardrums

user35386

that's not the valsalva maneuvre

user35386

valsalva maneuvre has you stop after equalization

allquixotic

I'll probably stick in the plugs when I sit down in my seat on the plane, and remove them 20 minutes after the plane touches down... I have a personal friend who says they are great, so I'm optimistic

ratchet freak

@Articuno that assumes people actually stop...

user35386

yeah, it'd be cool to hear your product review

allquixotic

18:25

the only reason you'd remove them during flight is if you care about being able to hear at normal levels (they attenuate 20 dB)

user35386

well, i was talking about the correct technique. i'll grant you that people may do it incorrectly

allquixotic

I have zero intention of removing them during flight as they are hard to insert

Lnafziger

@allquixotic Just got back from lunch. As fooot said, the cabin pressure will stay at sea level until you climb to the point where you reach the design differential pressure (difference in pressure from inside to outside the airplane). That's usually somewhere in the 20's for modern jets.

ratchet freak

and you don't want them dropping on the ground

user35386

@Lnafziger I've had aircraft start to pressurize before take-off, though.

user35386

18:27

start to reduce pressure before takeoff that is.

ratchet freak

depends on how the pressure setting is set

Lnafziger

@Articuno Actually, a lot of them will pressurize slightly on takeoff as the engine power is increased. That's usually more of a "bump" though than a constant pressure change.

ratchet freak

the aircraft needs to circulate air anyway

allquixotic

@Lnafziger really? hmm, that makes sense given that pressure is nonlinear and atmospheric pressure decreases exponentially with distance from the surface... (thank you KSP)

ratchet freak

and the valves work best when there is a bit of overpressure inside

Lnafziger

18:28

@Articuno Or the airplane that I fly, they actually shut off the pressurization during the takeoff roll and for a minute once airborne in order to get better performance. Other jets optionally do that and they call it a "bleeds off takeoff".

allquixotic

so even someone very sensitive to pressure changes would not notice a thing, pressure-wise until 20k... interesting

Lnafziger

@allquixotic Right

allquixotic

I've learned so much today :D

gonna see my doc this week before I board just to see if there's anything else that can be done, or if I happen to have any specific contraindications

heh, it's funny, I've had so much anxiety about the pressure changes and my mutant ears that I've really not had any time to think about my other fear of flying (the mostly-irrational one about crashing and such)

maybe I should keep worrying about the pressure and the flight will take care of itself uneventfully ;p

Lnafziger

So I missed the beginning of this conversation. What's the problem with your ears @allquixotic?

ratchet freak

issues equalizing

allquixotic

18:35

@Lnafziger very sensitive to pressure changes. chronic sinusitis. I've had tubes multiple times in both ears. more ear infections than I can count in all parts of the ear (outer, middle, inner). blood blisters on the ear drum once. perforations and scar tissue like crazy. went camping up in the mountains and the pressure was super painful even while chewing gum and swallowing.

never flown, but the few times I've changed altitude just on a land vehicle was not pleasant at all

Lnafziger

Have you tried the valsalva technique? (I saw you guys chatting about it). If you have an infection it might not be enough, but it's more effective than chewing gum....

allquixotic

basically I always have significant fluid in my middle ear and mild nasal congestion, although the nasal congestion is VERY minor to nonexistant in the summertime

no infection at the moment though

Lnafziger

@allquixotic Does taking decongestants help?

allquixotic

@Lnafziger only minimally. the most efficacious is diphenhydramine, which doubles as an extremely strong sleep drug (at least for me; I can't stay on my feet with diphen in my system)

sudafed (pseudoephedrine or phenylephrine, take your pick), guaifenesin, and the other non-drowsy OTCs seem to do basically nothing

if it were an 8 hour flight I'd be fine with the strong sedative property and would probably take it

but I have to find my way out of the airport, get a taxi, pay the taxi driver, find my hotel, check into the hotel, unpack my bags, and get downtown within an hour and a half of getting off the plane

that would be impossible on a sedative :P

Lnafziger

18:51

@allquixotic yeah, that could be problematic.

ratchet freak

ask someone to pick you up?

allquixotic

lol

nah, I'll probably take a non-drowsy decongestant and hope it has a non-zero effect (though from history it's unlikely to), and pray to the Earplanes gods (if there be any) to take good care of me ;p

Bret Copeland

19:25

@voretaq7 wasn't East Hampton (HTO) already a delta? Why did NFI just send me an email telling me it's now a delta?

voretaq7

@BretCopeland I think their tower just woke up for the season

Bret Copeland

it had been feeling tired lately?

voretaq7

It used to be uncontrolled, I think they have a "seasonal tower" now (unless it got made permanent).

CONTROL TOWER OPERATES AT ARPT FM MAY 1ST THRU SEPT 30TH.
NFI is a little late :-)

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 maybe one of their renters just flew into it without realizing.

last night I finally got a local instance of SE chat setup and working. Only took several hours to get up and running.

Including an hour and a half on a hangout with the dev who built a lot of it.

allquixotic

@BretCopeland huh? you got the source to SE chat?

o rite. SE dev. gotcha

heh, if that project were "accidentally" to go open source, I think it would see rather rambunctious uptake

Bret Copeland

19:37

@allquixotic yeah, they generally let developers have access to source code here. We've found it to be a useful policy.

allquixotic

step 1: port it to Mono/GNU/Linux
step 2: make the bad stuff about it *less bad* while maintaining the many good things
step 3: bake in the chatbots server-side that we've been running client-side
step 4: ???
step 5: don't make profit!

ratchet freak

4 run ads on them

Bret Copeland

@allquixotic it would also have to be ported to use MySQL or Postgres or something since we run on SQL Server now... which is not so Linux friendly.

and it's also fairly integrated with the Q&A sites, so it would take a good deal of modifying to run solo.

allquixotic

@BretCopeland that depends on how many SQLServer-specific constructs you use ;p

@BretCopeland yep, and a separate authentication mechanism probably

Bret Copeland

I'm not sure, I just know that anytime I've tried to switch db providers, it's always more work than you think it should be

allquixotic

19:41

HipChat has a lot (but not all) of the features of SE chat, though, only downside is it's not free beyond 5 users

Bret Copeland

And yeah, chat has no login mechanism of its own currently.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland Something Something Abstraction!

Bret Copeland

locally you can fake login by hitting a route, but that's not exactly secure for public

allquixotic

I wonder if the JS Room Folks ever got around to reimplementing SE chat in Node... ;p

Bret Copeland

@allquixotic I use HipChat a little, but there are a lot of SE chat features I miss

allquixotic

19:42

we've been wanting a backup plan ever since the bot crackdown, wondering when the other shoe will drop and we're told we can't have even the nice things we need, much less the nice things we merely want

Bret Copeland

I'm gonna make it my pet project to improve some things about chat which have been bothering me.

allquixotic

@BretCopeland but it has image oneboxing :D

Bret Copeland

But it's a time-permitting side project.

allquixotic

@BretCopeland like fixing ghetto md?

Bret Copeland

what don't you like about our md?

allquixotic

19:44

works

doesn't
***`works`***

2

Bret Copeland

you mean, multiline markdown doesn't work?

allquixotic

@BretCopeland as illustrated

voretaq7

@BretCopeland . . . your other pets are an alligator and a stonefish? :-)

Bret Copeland

I think that might have been intentional, but I would have to check

voretaq7

@allquixotic Works fine. points at star wall :-)

allquixotic

19:45

@voretaq7 bah! they have to be using a remove-newline thingo on it before posting it to the star wall, thereby fixing it

note: removing newlines is not the fix

voretaq7

I think the multiline markdown is intentional though, I remember discussing it a while back and there was something about it that broke the universe

allquixotic

!! s/broke the universe/just needs a second set of eyes to properly fix/

ratchet freak

chat isn't for multiline

Otto the Autopilot

@allquixotic No matching message (are you sure we're in the right room?)

allquixotic

oh cmon @Daniel

still on PJS 1.9.x ;3

Bret Copeland

19:47

@allquixotic no, what's actually happening is that for the normal chat, the markdown gets pre-rendered and stored in the db, but for the star wall, it pulls out the raw message, slightly reformats it, and applies the md formatting.

ratchet freak

so the prerender would screw it all up

voretaq7

@allquixotic You know how long it takes to get new software certified for aviation use?! :P

allquixotic

@voretaq7 ha ha.

ratchet freak

long enough for it to become obsolete by the time the cert gets printed

Bret Copeland

@allquixotic by the way, you know we have lots of internal server-side chat bots, we just don't have a way of exposing that sort of functionality through an API yet.

Lnafziger

19:53

@BretCopeland HTO is fun in the Falcon. :)

Bret Copeland

@Lnafziger what's special about it?

ratchet freak

lag spike?

Lnafziger

The big trees and short runway? :)

@ratchetfreak Nah, was just offline doing "real" work.

ratchet freak

lag spike?

allquixotic

@BretCopeland that's ok, I'm sure you'll have a server-side chatbot API ready for free and unlimited public use in 6-8 weeks

Bret Copeland

19:55

@ratchetfreak you're seeing a lag spike right now?

@allquixotic I'm sure I will too.

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