The Hangar

Jason Lowenthal

20:00

just somehow accidentally ended up here :P

I like the idea of aviation I think :D

voretaq7

@falstro whaddya mean "was"? IBM still supports it on contract :)

@JasonLowenthal I like the idea of an engine that keeps running even when all the fancy computers on board have decided to stop trying :)

falstro

@voretaq7 :) I actually ran OS/2 Warp or whatever it was called. But mostly because they were giving it away for free.. :)

@voretaq7 unless of course, you're in front of the aircraft trying to twist the prop out of the way to get hook up the towbar..

Jay Carr

I just wonder if you can run avionics off an IBM iSeries. I think making avionics in RPG would be...a challenge.

voretaq7

@JayCarr I'm sure some avionics use Power series processors

falstro

@JayCarr do rocket propelled grenades need avionics?

Jay Carr

20:03

Is that a comment on how much you like the iSeries or something?

Oh

Sorry...

RPG is a programming language in my head.

voretaq7

@falstro My prop stops conveniently at the 2-and-7-o'clock position -- doesn't need any manipulation to hook up the towbar :)

Jason Lowenthal

@falstro It's that new Role Playing Game about flight...

voretaq7

@JasonLowenthal Blessed +13 shoes of traction - enables flight attendant to remain standing in severe turbulence.

3

falstro

@voretaq7 dammit, why doesn't SE chat allow me to put more stars on a line?? ;)

voretaq7

> Read Scroll
This is a scroll of Evacuation. You gain +5 to "actually knowing where the exits are and how to operate the stupid seat belt"

Jay Carr

20:06

@voretaq7 Added to Spellbook

Or in most peoples cases, "Failed to add to Spellbook"

voretaq7

@JayCarr It's a different scroll for each plane, the effect fades when you leave :)

Jay Carr

That's a lot of scrolls at that point!

voretaq7

But if there's an actual emergency and you forgot to read the scroll you suffer a -10 penalty to all actions until either the emergency crew drags you away or a member of your party clubs you over the head and drags you away :)

Jason Lowenthal

Just make sure to remember the children first

the clubbing over the head part...

Jay Carr

I will never look at the little fold up instructions in the back of the airplanes seats the same way again.

voretaq7

20:08

@JasonLowenthal . . . they make excellent clubs. (What? I'm a sysadmin!)

@JayCarr The VM is upgrading things. <Hysterical>This is all your fault. ***YOU DID THIS TO ME!***</Hysterical>

Jay Carr

I'm sooooooo sorry. (puts on Dr. Who face)

Jason Lowenthal

They let sysadmins fly airplanes? Is that safe?

voretaq7

@JayCarr It still saddens me that I've only ever gotten to give the "Sit down, Strap in, Shut up" safety briefing once (normally anyone else flying with me already knows how the seat belt works and can read the little placards on the door)

@JasonLowenthal . . . yes, but only because I would have to pay for the engine teardown if I used the propeller to chop up users :)

falstro

@voretaq7 heh, I've given it several times, most people haven't used four-point harnesses

Jason Lowenthal

Ah, yes - users. Seems no matter the geek, users drive all of us insane

Jay Carr

20:12

@voretaq7 I thought you were just a PP? Do you have to give safety briefings when you have a passenger in a general aviation aircraft?

falstro

@JasonLowenthal aren't pilots the users of general aviation?

voretaq7

@JayCarr we're required to tell people how the seat belts work

Jay Carr

@voretaq7 That's probably fair.

voretaq7

and because my door has two locks I usually spend at least 10 seconds showing people how to operate the door (otherwise I have to do it climbing over them to get out)

Jay Carr

I thought maybe you had to point out exits and explain a flotation device or something.

falstro

20:13

@JayCarr seatbelts, fire extinguisher, and emergency exit procedures

Jay Carr

What do you fly again?

voretaq7

Piper PA-28 Cherokee

{| |} The Piper PA-28 Cherokee is a family of light aircraft designed for flight training, air taxi, and personal use. It is built by Piper Aircraft. All members of the PA-28 family are all-metal, unpressurized, single-engined, piston-powered airplanes with low-mounted wings and tricycle landing gear. They all have a single door on the copilot side, which is entered by stepping on the wing. The first PA-28 received its type certificate from the Federal Aviation Administration in 1960, and the series remains in production to this day. Current models are the Arrow and Archer TX and LX....

Jason Lowenthal

@falstro Touche...

Jay Carr

Ah, I thought I'd asked you before. That's a 180, isn't it?

voretaq7

@falstro the fire extinguisher is hard to miss. It's big, red, and between the seats :)

@JayCarr yup

Jay Carr

20:14

Good, I'm not going nuts :).

How about @falstro what are you flying?

falstro

@voretaq7 in the katana it's small red, and behind the passengers head :)

@JayCarr Katana DA20, and got checked out on Socata TB10 today

Jay Carr

Nice.

voretaq7

@falstro I'm not pleased with "behind the head" :)

Jay Carr

Once of these days when I'm all senior and stuff and have money... sigh I'll be happy with my basic license, frankly.

And a 152...

Heck, I'd take a 150...

Or an LSA...

Let's face it, I'd take an ultralight.

falstro

@voretaq7 no? I thought you would like that, assuming you're not the passenger ;)

voretaq7

20:17

@falstro if it pops loose in a turn it could still hit me :P

I don't even like the way the tow bar holder is in my plane (it's two spring-clips behind the back seat)

falstro

@voretaq7 you do a lot of skidding turns, do ya? ;)

Jay Carr

@falstro have you flown a Cessna 152 or 172? Any thoughts on those for training v. the katana?

voretaq7

@falstro no, but I do a lot of steep turns to look at stuff on the ground 'cuz the wing is in the way up until about 40 degrees of bank :)

@JayCarr I don't fit in a 152 :(

Jay Carr

I'm 6'3" is that gonna be a problem?

falstro

@JayCarr Nope, haven't. The best thing about the Katana is the fuel consumption

Jay Carr

20:19

gph?

falstro

@JayCarr 3.5

Jay Carr

Niiiiice

Thats, like, $25 an hour or so these days.

voretaq7

@falstro rub it in ya bastard :(

falstro

@voretaq7 hey, 200lbs of useful load. that's what you get.

Jay Carr

Is that with full fuel?

voretaq7

20:21

heh, true - it's nice to be able to take along other useful things besides myself.... like fuel :)

Jay Carr

Or an instructor...

falstro

@JayCarr 6'3" is a snug fit in the Katana, I'm 6'2", and I can't use the normal cushions or my headset touches the canopy

so you'll have to use the in-ear kind @voretaq7 uses

Jay Carr

They need to make taller planes apparently...that get 3gph or something.

falstro

@JayCarr na, it's more than 200lbs, but it's low compared to the PA28 (or the TB10) lemme check

Jay Carr

I didn't know they had in ear headsets. @voretaq7 Are those any good?

voretaq7

20:23

@falstro I wanna say it's like 500-600

it's a respectable 2-person-plus-fuel loading

@JayCarr I like them better than the regular ones - they're lighter and I don't have to bring hair goop with me to the airport to fix the squashed section on top of my head :P

falstro

@voretaq7 460 lbs

@JayCarr that's without fuel

voretaq7

@falstro and what's it hold like 15 gallons?

falstro

@voretaq7 20

(usable)

Jay Carr

@voretaq7 Good call. My hair would probably appreciate that too. What brand?

@falstro Yikes! So, I'm 200lbs, if my instructor is 150lbs (or so), I have 110lbs for fuel and I'm full loaded?

voretaq7

@JayCarr quiettechnologies.com is what I use

@JayCarr If your instructor is 150lbs you've got a scrawny instructor :-)

falstro

20:26

@JayCarr yep

Jay Carr

@voretaq7 I'm being really generous...

voretaq7

there's also clarityaloft.com

Jay Carr

@falstro Just need to find a female flight instructor I would suppose.

@voretaq7 Nice, bookmarking both for later.

voretaq7

@JayCarr I think we have one instructor at NFI who's about 150lbs, she comes up to about my kneecap :)

Jay Carr

@voretaq7 But then I'd have to move to NY, where my current salary would afford me a box in Central Park.

voretaq7

20:27

Also - Wow! Cessna 150s got expensive.

Jay Carr

Oh, how much?

Might be the LSA conversion effect...

voretaq7

@JayCarr Central Park boxes are expensive. you want an outer boroughs box - preferably one under the el :-)

on trade-a-plane I'm seeing 'em for like $20, they were $16-18 a few years back

(thousand)

Jay Carr

@voretaq7 Man, at that right I might as well get a box in Jersey.

Ah

Still not awful.

falstro

I'm off to bed. G'night.

Jay Carr

@voretaq7 Is 14.04 done exploding on your box btw.

@falstro Night! I'm guessing your in Europe somewhere?

voretaq7

20:29

they still rent out relatively cheaply

falstro

@JayCarr For the time being yes, currently in Germany.

voretaq7

@JayCarr no it was waiting for me to answer questions about modified files :P

Jay Carr

@falstro Nifty, I need to visit Germany some day...

@voretaq7 This whole experience just has me wondering why I'm using Ubuntu to begin with... Oh wait, yeah, matching production, right...

voretaq7

@JayCarr Ubuntu in production.... <Sideshow Bob Shudder>

Jay Carr

lol, well, it's the right price for our budget, what can I say?

I can now hear our sysadmins all talking with Kelsey Grahmars voice now...

voretaq7

20:33

@JayCarr There are somethings in life money can't buy. For the frustration that makes you want to kick Mark Shuttleworth in the crotch - there's Ubuntu.

Jay Carr

Gonna go out on a limb hear and say you're not a big fan of Ubuntu... ;)

What do you use for your servers instead?

Or for your desktop OS?

voretaq7

@JayCarr FreeBSD

desktops are all OS X here

Jay Carr

Nice

voretaq7

we have a few people with Windows VMs (Quickbooks)

Jay Carr

And the server is actually FreeBSD?

Am I allowed to ask where you work? I don't recall if that's against internet protocol...probably is.

voretaq7

20:34

@JayCarr all our production client-facing infrastructure is BSD

Jay Carr

Wow, that's pretty cool.

voretaq7

@JayCarr it's an open secret (i.e. I don't post it google-ably much)

Jay Carr

I should go tell our server admins to do that instead!

Ah, so I have to play where's waldo with it to figure it out.

So if all of your stuff is BSD, why do even have a Ubuntu vm?

@voretaq7 or do you just use Ubuntu in a limited capacity?

casey

ubuntu...

thats one distro I don't touch

Jay Carr

lol, I'm hearing this a lot today.

And I'm starting to think the same thing.

But I wonder what would be better if I want to use linux? Would Debian be better?

voretaq7

20:43

it used to be "The Good Linux"!

Jay Carr

So I "stay in the family" as it were?

casey

I run debian and gentoo

Jay Carr

gentoo is the desktop, right?

Still new to linux...

voretaq7

well already 14.04 broke grub and the X greeter / autologin :P

Jay Carr

Actually did the same thing for me...

casey

20:44

@JayCarr ubuntu is in the debian family the same way the rebellious teenager who makes stupid decisions is part of the family. It derived from debian but gives nothing back

voretaq7

DNS seems to work OK though

Jay Carr

Figured it wasn't stopping me so...

@voretaq7 darn it all.

@voretaq7 I mean, great! Good to hear!

voretaq7

@casey I was going to go with "Drunken uncle"

casey

@JayCarr gentoo is a source-based distro where everything is compiled. Its very close to the BSD ports system, but for Linux

Jay Carr

So Debian + Gentoo is a good option then?

casey

20:45

@voretaq7 that is a better visual for sure :)

Jay Carr

Or so it sounds.

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 I've met you in person multiple times and I never even thought to ask the name of where you work. I guess that shows how much I care.

casey

@JayCarr its an either/or, they are both distros. I don't recommend starting with gentoo

Jay Carr

I'm doing Java dev using Spring, with a war being deployed from Apache Tomcat.

voretaq7

@JayCarr I let my developers run whatever the hell they want on their desktops. They get a VM with a copy of the production OS on it, and they're told if their code doesn't work on that they will be yelled at.

Jay Carr

20:46

Is that going to be a problem on Debian?

@voretaq7 We're trying to get there.

voretaq7

@JayCarr . . . wow. You were Hitler in a previous life, weren't you?

Jay Carr

@ :(

voretaq7

that's some major karmic punishment

Jay Carr

I was probably Mao instead.

All of that I can't really change, sorry.

What are you guys using?

voretaq7

@JayCarr "Burn the company down for the insurance money" ? :-)

@JayCarr about 80% of the core is Ruby/Passenger on Apache. There's some legacy perl (<shakes fist>) too

Jay Carr

20:48

@voretaq7 I am getting sick of the TPS reports...

We're at least using Groovy, and I honestly don't mind Spring.

It's Ubuntu I'm getting angry with.

casey

legacy perl is the best perl

Jay Carr

Because it's on the way out?

casey

because it tends to look so obfuscated to be unmaintainable

Jay Carr

Oh...oh goody.

So, it looks like I'm going to just erase 14.04 because it's not working. Should I replace it with Debian?

voretaq7

@casey ours isn't particularly bad

it's just.... old

@JayCarr I'd just clean-install 14.04 over what you've got

casey

20:51

at least it isnt COBOL

bane of the legacy

voretaq7

@casey . . . there was fortran.

so.... perl better?

casey

hey! I still use Fortran :)

writing new code as we speak

voretaq7

@casey You're a meteorologist - you're expected to be a godless heathen! :)

casey

:) well spoken

Jay Carr

@voretaq7 - Keep 14.04 to stay in step with production or you don't like Debian?

casey

20:53

I worked for a company in high school that was still writing and releasing code written in COBOL

voretaq7

@JayCarr Oh my sweet sociopathic salamanders what did they do to the log-out menu in 14.04?!

and.... where's my network manager tray icon?

oh this is just awful.

Jay Carr

Suddenly feeling less convinced..

voretaq7

do...do I not get one because the VM doesn't have a wireless card?

casey

I hear people say Mint is a good distro to start with, but I've never used it

voretaq7

@casey Mint is supposed to be what Ubuntu was like 4-5 years ago ("The Good Linux for Desktops")

which means in 4-5 years it's gonna suck and we'll be looking for alternatives again :)

Jay Carr

20:55

The linux n00b is getting more and more confused.

Why can't OSs just have, you know, straightforward answers or something?

ie., which to use.

Which to scorn.

Which to avoid.

Which to put on a disk and throw in the air whilst aiming your shotgun at it...et.

casey

@voretaq7 thats a good linux desktop :) ^^^

voretaq7

You're an enlightenment user I see....

casey

KDE actually

voretaq7

really? KDE looks a lot less shitty than it used to!

casey

though I have played around with E, but one of the ancient versions

voretaq7

20:58

I'm not going to say the last E version I ran.

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 it is a lot less shitty.

casey

@voretaq7 yep, 4.13 with some theme I don't remember the name of and no window decorations on my terminals

voretaq7

Let's just say it was shortly after FreeBSD stopped having 3 digit version numbers.

casey

I don't recall the version, but I'm pretty sure the year had three 0's in it

Jay Carr

0001?

@voretaq7 Any last thoughts on the difficulty I've been having before I go ahead and consider my options for re-installing?

voretaq7

21:02

@JayCarr aside from my standard "Dammit Ubuntu!"? Nothing helpful I'm afraid :-/

Jay Carr

@voretaq7 Nah, that's fine. In all honesty, sometimes just knowing that someone with more experience than me is also stumped is a comfort. At least it's not "Jay's an idiot n00b" that's the problem. Thank you very much for the help :)

voretaq7

I can honestly say "I've never seen it do THAT before!"

Jay Carr

sigh I don't know why, but I seem to attract those kinds of problems... Karma, you were saying before? ;)

casey

@JayCarr if you are having issues with linux, don't forget to visit the friendly folks at unix.stackexchange.com

Bret Copeland

@casey he already asked a question on askubuntu

Jay Carr

21:06

@casey lol, I should go full freeBSD at this point? I did...what @BretCopeland said.

I even went into their chatty room and got 0 response...

Y'all have been a million times more helpful.

Though I think this is the last time I'm asking a question like this here.

I much prefer talking about planes I think...

2

casey

@JayCarr thats why I mention unix.SE. everything you can ask at AU is on topic at unix.SE and If I had a choice, I know which one I would post on

Jay Carr

@casey Fair enough. I'll head there if my new install is giving me trouble.

voretaq7

@JayCarr certainly nicer than talking abut Ubuntu :)

Jay Carr

@voretaq7 lol, okay, one last overly broad question. Ubuntu, Mint or Debian? I at least want an operating system I have some amount of familiarity with, so one of those should work. And I don't mind learning something hard, so long as it's not full of obscure &#*$ problems, ya'know?

voretaq7

@JayCarr it's really pick your poison - if your production environment is Ubuntu you might as well keep it

Jay Carr

21:13

@voretaq7 Out of curiosity what is you're preferred dev OS? Or is that actually FreeBSD?

voretaq7

@JayCarr absent other concerns I prefer deploying FreeBSD for production server environments, and OS X for desktops

Jay Carr

Well...I'm remoting, I could in theory use my iMac...

But I can't carry that in to work for when I need to be in the office, so probably not.

Hrm, well, I'll figure it out.

Again, thanks for the help :)

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