@voretaq7 paper airplanes SE?

@voretaq7 don't you care about these people's families?! I mean, have a heart. All you want are airliners to disappear to further your own little site. You don't even care about the people involved.

jk

@flyingfisch It's okay @flyingfisch, he hates people anyway.

lol

@voretaq7 oops, did I hurt your feelings? But you don't care about feelings either.

@voretaq7 <giving me significant looks>

hehe

@voretaq7 Please don't hate me, it hurts my feelings.

Wizards of Oz: As for you, my galvanized friend, you want a heart. You don't know how lucky you are not to have one. Hearts will never be practical until they can be made unbreakable.

hey, has anyone here ever constructed a walkalong glider?

@flyingfisch Of course I care - I'm jealous! I WANT TO BE DISAPPEARED DAMMIT!

@Farhan I don't have feelings. I'm a sysadmin.

@Farhan I do have a heart though. Several actually. <opens up display case and shows off jars of hearts>

@voretaq7 it's not hard to cause a paper airplane to stall by bending the rear of the wings upward (even with a nose heavy one), I do it all the time. Making it so perfectly balanced with a 'rudder' that it wont turn over sideways before stalling would probably be very hard though.

@voretaq7 then I guess you know devopsreactions (in addition to the_coding_love(); ) :D

Just out of vague curiosity, what kinds of questions where you folks envisioning occurring on this site? A lot of these seem like beginners questions (you're welcome, or, apologies, as the case may be.) Were we expecting more advanced questions about approaches to airports or how some obscure procedure is applied in some odd situation?

I mostly ask because I had hoped to see some more advanced questions myself, because I tend to learn a lot by trying to puzzle them out...

The questions about how to interpret charts, for example, have been really interesting to me. "Do I really need to do this go around" or "Is this approach correct, should I send in an error report?". Things like that.

@JayCarr I expect it's going to be a pretty wide mix

@falstro I haven't forgotten you by the way, I owe you an email, it's just been an insane week :)

@JayCarr I also expected a wide mix. I was originally hoping that we would have more expert type questions than we do, but hey.

Wide mix is good, but I think what I'm trying to say is we're kinda short on the more advanced questions. I wonder what can be done to pull in more expert questions?

@voretaq7 no worries, it's not like I'm refreshing my inbox every two minutes. :)

I mean some of you are airline pilots...maybe talk to co-workers about getting involved and asking ridiculously hard questions?

I can totally draw in some n00bs (like me), but experts...not so much.

If we want ridiculously hard questions we'll need to get more flight instructors involved. They hear all the crazy questions :-)

Ooooh...that would be pretty awesome I think.

I just keep thinking about my experience from SO, if you want to keep the experts around, you need to have some nice tough questions in the mix...

That way they (or, well, y'all, just trying to exclude myself) are also around to answer simple questions with really complete, sound answers.

@JayCarr It also helps when the simple questions aren't STUPID-simple like "Herp Derp What's An Engine" -- thankfully we don't have that problem yet :-)

Yeah, and I've asked a few more advanced questions that haven't really gotten any good answers.

@voretaq7 - I have seen a couple questions along those lines in comments, but yeah, thankfully not as a main question.

@Lnafziger - And that's part of the problem I think, we're having a hard time drawing in people to answer those more difficult questions. The only difficult questions we tend to get answered are ones related to physics and mechanical engineering... Which I love, don't get me wrong, I just wish we had a few more experts answering difficult questions on piloting.

Maybe if we could draw in some of the people from the local FAA offices...what are those called, FSOs? (I"m such a n00b...)

@JayCarr part of the problem with expecting those types of questions is that you're more likely to ask your CFI than go to the internet in search of an answer.

Ah, yeah, I can see the problem there. And this is true even when you're not currently in training?

I don't know. I'm always in training it seems like.

lol, care to ellaborate a bit? I haven't even started my private pilots license yet (saving up).

I mean I'm working on my instrument rating right now, so I see a CFI on a regular basis. For a while after my primary training, I still kept in touch with my original CFI fairly often.

@BretCopeland The FAA does everything they can to encourage you to see a CFI on a regular basis - at least every 2 years if you want to keep flying :)

Taking a shot in the dark and guessing the FAA will probably never see this forum as a replacement for seeing a CFI every couple years...just a guess.

@JayCarr nope. Your only escape from that is to see a CFI more often :)

Is there a recommended frequency for a pilot who just has a regular license and an instrument rating?

For when I get there...

Depends on how often you fly really

If you fly a lot, the need to see a CFI is generally lower

@JayCarr there's a regulatory frequency (every 2 years) - recommended is up to the pilot like Bret said

That would make some sense.

So you can do check rides and such as often as you want then, one would suppose.

airlines typically have shorter cycles for recurrent training (seems like every 6 months is still common?)

@JayCarr no one wants to do check rides more often than they have to

but a "check ride" has somewhat specific meaning.

and the FAA really tries to encourage you to go see an instructor more frequently

Oh, right, a "check ride" is more like a test than a lesson, right?

right

@BretCopeland well given the choice between a checkride I know I'm going to pass or a boring "standard" BFR I'll take the checkride to reset the clock :)

BFR?

@voretaq7 well, yeah, if you're getting something new on your license

if you're not, then there is no reward, and therefore not so exciting

@JayCarr "biennial" flight review (technically just "flight review", but they happen biennially - every 2 years)

lol, oooooh, that thing you've been talking about, right. Sorry, thanks :)

@BretCopeland maybe the examiners should give out lollipops? :)

really expensive lollipops

@BretCopeland ...We'll make tootsie-pops, but with AN fasteners in them. Then we can sell them for $50 each because they're "aviation parts"

@BretCopeland I am not very likely to ask a CFI if I have a question. I haven't even talked to a current CFI in probably 10 years (or at least if I have, I wouldn't have known it).

@BretCopeland Not to mention that for a lot of questions, particularly the harder questions, I wouldn't trust a random CFI to give me the correct answer. I want to see definitive answers....

@Lnafziger how do you do reviews?

Most of them are very good at what they do and know the answers to the questions that are typically asked by the types of pilots that they are working with (primary students, etc.)

@BretCopeland 135 checkrides with company check airmen or an FAA representative.

@BretCopeland Passing a 135 proficiency check qualifies as a BFR.

(as well it should... It's a lot more involved, lol.)

Your company check airmen aren't current CFI's?

That surprises me.

Nope, they aren't even required to have a CFI.

They are all ATP's though.

Do you have your ATP?

Actually, for that matter I am a check airman and never even got my single engine commercial rating (and no CFI).

@Lnafziger I'd generally trust a CFI with "DaFUQ this plate trynna tell me to do here?" type questions

Yeah, I have an ATP with single engine private privileges.

@voretaq7 Yeah, I did say that they know the questions that they get asked over and over well. Outside of that though you sometimes get "creative" answers.

@Lnafziger You sometimes get "creative" answers from the FSDO too :)

@voretaq7 Kind of random, but are you any good with Ubuntu networking: askubuntu.com/questions/462949/…

if not, please ignore.

Or, if yes but not interested, please ignore.

Just slowly getting past the end of my rope on that one.

@JayCarr I blame Connection Manager/Network Manager/whatever-the-hell-talks-to-DNSMasq/the-fact-that-DNSMasq-is-even-being-u‌​sed :-)

THAT IT!

Dang, why didn't I think of that before ;)

@JayCarr (can you tell I've dealt with that particular kind of fuckery before on ubuntu? :-)

It's fine, I respect you might not be interested. Just getting a bit desperate ;)

You know, I used to like Ubuntu, but the trouble it's been giving me with networking on laptops...

It's making me want to kills things.

Well, in video games.

To be fair.

does it work when you use nslookup against the 192.168 (router?) IP?

@JayCarr I need small, inexpensive ($50 or so) Ubuntu laptops so I can smash them when I encounter another brain-damaging bug

Not totally sure, someone asked that and I posted some results on the question.

lol

yes, that

@JayCarr yeah you ran it against 8.8.8.8 - does it work when you run it against what Ubuntu thinks should be your nameserver? Might be the NS and not Ubuntu

I just noticed, with the help of a co-worker, that search gateway.2wire.net is not showing up in run/resolvconf/resolv.conf

Ah

(its probably ubuntu but rule out the obvious :-)

So, 192.168.1.1?

yah

Which is what it claims is primary?

Yeah, just as ec.

It's answering with a dozen variations on 173.194.46.*

hmmmm

I'm worried this is just the result of a botched upgrade.

I just went from 12.04 to 14.04.

And I tried to retain a bunch of stuff from my old setup...starting to wonder if I should just nuke the HD and install fresh. Then only move over docs and such.

Granted, it's only this that's gone wrong it seems...

wait, wat? dnsmasq?

Pardon?

@JayCarr is dnsmasq actually running on your machine?

ninjad.

I...really don't know. Still a bit new to linux, what's the command?

@JayCarr ps -ef |grep dnsmasq

i usually run ps -ef|grep dnsmasq, but I'm told that's not the l33t way to do it

I'm not leet, I'm a Java programmer. Trust me on that one.

@falstro there's a way to check for running processes besides using ps? <strokes neckbeard aggressively and scowls>

@JayCarr don't be thrown off by the fact that it lists the 'grep' process though

@voretaq7 na, ps is fine, but the black art of using ps the right way is like vim vs. emacs in some circles..

It looks like there are two processes running. The first has a whole lot of --<and stuff> the second one is a single line.

@falstro pick a flag standard (BSD or SysV) and stick to it :)

@voretaq7 ps -ef | grep [d]nsmasq for example would weed out the grep process

One just started, I guess that's not dnsmasq

@JayCarr the first one is dnsmasq so it's running....hmmm

The other looks like it started when I restarted the computer last.

@JayCarr paste both lines will ya?

It's on my other computer (which, coincidentally, has no internet access), but I can retype it real fast if you'd like.

na, don't worry about it, one is probaly the grep (does it say grep anywhere?) and the other is probably actually dnsmasq

nobody 1534 784 0 13:59 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/dnsmasq --no-resolv --keep-in-foreground --no-hosts --bind-interface --pid-file=/run/sendsigs.omit.d/network-manager.dnsmasq.pid --listen-address=127.0.1.1 conf-file=/var/run/NetworkManager/dnsmasq

That's the first bit of the real one.

pardon any spelling errors.

what does ps -ef|grep 784 yield except this line?

Any other particular flags you are looking for?

that looks pretty normal... except for the /run/sendsigs.omit.d bit which I think is new 14.x fuckery

the '--keep-in-foreground' seems weird?

Network Manager

ah

ok

Which I can't restart, btw.

It dies trying to stop and then when I start it says it's already going.

This was all part of another fix I was trying with the head file a bit back.

xkcd.com/349 ? :)

LOL

Yeah, that's just about right/

I was going to wait until 12.04.1 but there were some features that were so tantalizing...............

Well, if nothing is really striking out at you, I'll just go the "nuke it" route and pray that a) fixes it or b) at very least keeps the sharks away.

what does /etc/resolv.conf say? nameserver 127.0.1.1?

I believe so, but let me double check.

@falstro Indeed.

if so, what does /var/run/NetworkManager/dnsmasq say?

lol, that reminds me, there is no /etc/resolv.conf in 14.04. Well, there isn't on my system, nor on my co-workers.

I despise network manager

So if it's supposed to be there......I'm in trouble.

I'll check dnsmasq too.

one of our devs hates it so much he uses connman (which sucks more apparently)

Back to the sharks, eh?

@JayCarr ...now that doesn't seem right

I don't have any 14.04 systems though... perhaps I should upgrade this virtualbox

(that way when it all goes to hell I'll only have to deal with virtual sharks)

lol

Virtualization is the answer to everything I think.

Relationships included in my case.

@falstro There's nothing in dnsmasq.conf...

@JayCarr ok, no resolv.conf, what does /etc/nsswitch.conf say for hosts?

@JayCarr . . . don't let's be excluding things! It'd be nice if I could snapshot before every conversation so when I say something innocuous that leads to great offense I can just restore and try a different option :)

lol, that would be uber helpful.

okay, hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns

ok, what the ... is mdns4_minimal? :)

. . . idunno, but dafuq [NOTFOUND=return] before checking DNS?

that'd be my next question

ah no apparently that's "normal"

I read left-to-right ;)

(at least my 13.10 box says the same thing)

ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=971693

Yeah, it was on that page I linked thar...

AH

Same thing, mkay.

And that as the last major release before 14.04

ah, ok. I don't run ubuntu, so I can't really help with high level stuff

My problem is I have years of bad habits given to me by OSX and it's ridiculously easy upgrade paths.

It's step 3 that's killing me.

Any other thoughts before I decide I've wandered way to far into diminishing returns and just wipe it?

@JayCarr hint: make your home directory another partition, and do clean installs instead of upgrades.

Yeah, I got lazy. All of my stuff is on a HD that's at the office.

@JayCarr s/OS X/FreeBSD/ :-)

I was going to do a clean install and upgard and....

I'd much prefer OSX, but it doesn't match production..

I'm upgrading the 12.x VM to 13.10 so I can run the 13.10->14.04 upgrade

@flyingfisch - I think I'll be doing a clean install now though.

(my VMs are complicated)

@voretaq7 Should I wait to see what comes out of it?

I can probably give this today.

@JayCarr i still have 12.04

;)

@JayCarr y'all running Ubuntu in production? Fools! :)

I feel kind of silly abandoning it when this is the only problem.

don't see any reason to upgrade

linux++

Hey now! I mean...well, yeah, but still!

@JayCarr what happens if you add mdns4 at the end of the line in nsswitch.conf? (as in the link)

@flyingfisch you're out of support

@falstro ...or just plain dns (as god and nature - but not Ubuntu - intended)

Not until 14.04.1 if I recall. Still supporting 12.04.1

Or, 10.04.1 actually.

LTS is 5 years, as I recall.

@voretaq7 hmm, guess your right

oh wait

No nsswitch.conf has any right being more complicated than this:

[mgraziano@monitor ~]$ cat /etc/nsswitch.conf
#
# nsswitch.conf(5) - name service switch configuration file
# $FreeBSD: src/etc/nsswitch.conf,v 1.3.2.1.4.2 2012/11/17 08:47:00 svnexp Exp $
#
group: files ldap
group_compat: nis
hosts: files dns
networks: files
passwd: files ldap
passwd_compat: nis
shells: files
services: compat
services_compat: nis
protocols: files
rpc: files
sudoers: ldap files

yeah, i am still in support

and even the LDAP bit is....bleh

I think i might switch to arch instead of upgrading though

@flyingfisch idunno I had to ditch 12.04 because it didn't support new hardware

ok, gtg

that's when I stopped tracking LTS for Ubuntu

@voretaq7 So you're actually upgrading a VM? Seems extreme...well, unless you've got a few.

@JayCarr it's the virtualbox instance I use for testing "potentially destructive" changes to our field units.

(like Ubuntu upgrades)

Ah

Hence, try 14.04 and see what happens.

Is't this supposed to be a chat about Aviation? I'm not even remotely pretending to be a pilot and I understand everything you guys are talking about! :D

ouch

@JasonLowenthal Thanks for the support man!

@JasonLowenthal You just wait until we replace the engine controls on the 737 with a nice shiny Ubuntu installation....

(something something "uncommanded engine shutdown"?)

"The pilot is dead....does anyone know Ubuntu networking?"

That'll be the day.

$> land this plane - unauthorized

sudo !!

$> sudo land this plane

Anyway....

@JasonLowenthal ..."OK but you're not going to like it."

There are, to be fair, some planes that are using iPads for some of their avionics.

I wonder if Ubuntu Mobile will be purposed for that at some point?

@JayCarr hey if it's experimental you can use whatever you want....

(OS/2)

Heh. I'm happy to offer linux thoughts if you guys want them. But... I'm admittedly useless at aviation stuff

@voretaq7 hey, that was a great OS. Way ahead of its time