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01:04
@egid - Really we consider UND and Purdue more of our rivals.
If someone says "The OSU" to us, we'll usually give you a blank look and a "Beg pardon?"
But sure, i'll fight him. Who is he? Point 'im out.
 
2 hours later…
03:14
Does a user have to be in chat to be pinged with @ or will they get a notification anyway?
03:32
@casey They have to have been in chat at some point recently. I don't know what the exact rules are, but an easy test is if you type @ and their name doesn't come up in autocomplete, then it's not going to ping them.
0
Q: Considerations for editing and approving edits for closed posts

caseyVising the re-open queue tonight I came across two posts nominated for re-opening due to edits made to the post. You can see them for yourself here: Suggested edit by @ctx and approved by @egid and, an edit by @DannyBeckett. I am highlighting these because while the edits are normally what we...

@BretCopeland thanks
04:16
interesting. I was mistaken, i thought they could be pinged as long as they were in chat ever.
 
8 hours later…
roe
roe
12:08
Hmm.. Someone edited my LAHSO question, and added "holding" and "landing" as tags, now holding is in my opinion incorrect, the edit is however listed as approved by @DeltaLima, and "Community". However, looking at the question, it looks like @DeltaLima actually removed the "holding"-tag before approving, why does it list the edit as approved?
roe
roe
12:28
@davidricherby How if people are forced to wear parachutes during flight and then kicked out of the plane in case of failure in plane. — Aditya Patil 1 hour ago
uhm...
@roe it shows the full history and credits everyone who had a hand in editing, otherwise you'd get whiners saying that half the edit was theirs
posted on March 12, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

12 March 1955:  Société nationale des constructions aéronautiques du Sud-Est  (SNCASE, or Sud Aviation) Chief Test Pilot Jean Boulet and Flight Test Engineer Henri Petit made the first flight of the SE.3130 Alouette II prototype, F-WHHF, at Buc Airfield, near Paris, France. Powered by a Turboméca Artouste IIB1 turboshaft engine, the Alouette II was the […] The post 12 March 1955 appeared

@roe I agree with you that holding is the incorrect tag here, although I understand why it was added. I "improved" the edit by removing the holding tag. The system then registers my action as approving the edit. This seems to be designed to keep everyone happy.
roe
roe
@DeltaLima Sure, I undertand why it was added, I was just curious why it was listed as approved. But as you and @ratchetfreak said, it might very well be to keep the whining down.
roe
roe
13:03
Also, I suppose there'd have to be some threshold or something how much was approved.
one could reject an edit and then make your own
but you'd need to wait on someone else to reject it as well and then making the edit
 
1 hour later…
14:20
I just stumbled into this chat room... What is this for?
chatting
chat mostly
:)
Does anyone else think that this question has absolutely no value for this site if the author is essentially refusing to come back and edit details into the Q and A provided?
1
Q: What does flight categories "C", "G", "T" etc. mean?

Meng LuIn a flight database that I'm working with on a project, there is a column of data called "flightCategory" with values "C", "G", "T", etc. Any idea what those actually mean? From what I understand, the database is from FAA. But I'm not 100% sure.

lol, am I allowed to ask some of the more opinion based questions I have rattling around in my mind here? Mostly about how I can possibly get my pilots license when I continue to be flat broke...
I want to flag it for deletion but want some opinions first
@JayCarr you can ask whatever you want, but if it is a question on-topic to the site it would be constructive to post it there. For the rest, ask in here
roe
roe
@JayCarr Sure
14:25
worst case, no one will reply
I always worry about asking things like "what's the best way to learn how to fly when you're broke" because it's hugely opinion based.
roe
roe
@casey Yeah, it's pretty much useless in its current state.
I used to run into similar problems on Stack Overflow when I asked "what's the best book to learn X"
@casey and @roe - I agree, for whatever my opinion is worth.
roe
roe
@JayCarr Yeah, it's not great for the site, but in the chat it's pretty much all opinion :)
Well, tell me then. I'm broke, I desperately want a pilots license (I'm the sort that sits in parks near airfields watching the planes fly...) What do I do?
roe
roe
14:27
@JayCarr Where are you?
Springfield Missouri
USA
roe
roe
Ok, absolutely no idea then. :)
@roe I'm VTC as unclear for now. When a diamond pops in here I'll appeal directly
lol, what where you thinking of saying then?
Maybe I'll just move.
@JayCarr do you have any excess income to devote to flying? You can always just fly when you can, but you will end up spending more flight time to get the license since skills will take longer to solidify if lessons are spaced out too much
roe
roe
14:29
@JayCarr I suppose it's a matter of how 'broke' you are, I'm in Europe, and here you'll need to cough up about double the amount compared to the US.
So moving here is not a good idea :)
The only way you'll do it for cheap is to find someone with a plane that will let you fly it for cost or for free, and find an instructor willing to instruct in it for cheap or free
Look into clubs and see if there are specials
and on option I'm not too familiar with is the civil air patrol
which has options to get flight time rather cheap I'm told
Go to a local EAA meeting and talk to people
see if anyone can help you
or knows of someone who can
roe
roe
yah, EAA is good starting point
but in the end you will learn the answer to "What makes an airplane fly?" is not "lift", its "money".
EAA?
lol...so true.
experimental aircraft association
14:33
Yeah, I probably have enough excess income for a flight a month, but I'm hesitant to space things out that much.
I suppose the biggest thing I need to get flying is "a raise" as it were.
yea, a flight a month is probably a bit stretched
if you are disciplined you could save it for a while, but I know that is hard
I personally recommend 2 flights a week as a good starting point, but if you could do one a week or one every other week its probably doable in a decent timeframe
Mmmm... We do have a local CAP, and summer storm season is coming up... I just am not sure how I would build up useful hours as a student pilot doing that?
Yeah, I think my minimum would be a flight a week.
roe
roe
@JayCarr During my flight training I had one flight, sometimes two flights, a week and it took me just short of a year to get my 45 hours
Though I was thinking one flight a week of two hours.
@JayCarr I don't know the details with CAP, I just know people get there private ratings with them somehow
14:35
@casey I'll ask 'em then. See what information I can't get on that.
2 hours is a bit long for your early flights
if you are flying out of a busy airport it might be worthwhile though
Oh? Why's that?
roe
roe
you'll be exhausted
lots of new things to take in
its either a lot of different maneuvers to practice, or a practicing a few many times
neither is going to be easy at first
lots of them means remembering how to do lots of them
and practicing a few will hit a wall when you get tired
it'll be overwhelming
Ah, okay.
I'll take your word for it.
Would practicing on X-Plane help me solidfy this stuff at all? Or is the lack of feel going to make that all kind of pointless?
14:38
if you are flying out of a busy class C or B primary airport, 2 hours can be OK, since you are burning time on the ground and getting to/from the practice area
but if you are at a small not so busy airport, 1 hr flights to 1.5 should be fine
roe
roe
looking through my logbook, i did roughly 1.5 flights a week, first flights were around 1 hour, moving closer to 2 hours when doing cross countries
since you might only spend 5 minutes from startup to airborne
and yea, the XC will be longer, 2-3 in the book
Cross countries mostly involve a lot of straight and level flight, right?
14:39
@JayCarr X-Plane (or any sim) will help you because you have an idea of what the controls do, but they tend to breed habits of staring at the instruments
roe
roe
well yeah
and getting lost :)
as a private pilot your job is to look outside
as any pilot, that is true
@casey SA, right? Try not to run into things?
but unless you are in the clouds (and you wont be) you should primarily be looking outside
@roe - I hope not... Getting lost in an airplane doesn't sound fun.
roe
roe
14:40
@JayCarr it will happen
@JayCarr SA and the view outside can tell you most of what the instruments can
Aww man
roe
roe
hopefully it'll be with an instructor on board :)
and getting lost is a procedure you will practice, and its somewhat on the checkride
and a friendly ATC to get you back on track
14:41
Maybe I'll only ever fly on planes equipeed with GPS.
the checkride will have an unplanned diversion you have to do
@casey, really?
@JayCarr a good instructor won't let you touch the GPS :)
roe
roe
and he will switch off the gps
You're telling me I have to learn the fundamentals! Aw man...
;). It's a good point though.
14:42
@JayCarr your navigation be looking at a map and looking out the window with an E6B on your lap and a clock
roe
roe
I was allowed to have my GPS running on my checkride (no moving map), as long as I didn't touch it. Used it for the clock only.
:)
@roe no clock on the dash?
and after a bit you'll add radio nav, VOR mostly
This reminds me of the line "give me a clock and a map and I'll navigate the alps for you in a plane with no windows"
roe
roe
14:42
@ratchetfreak Nope, one on my wrist though.
@JayCarr consider yourself lucky to have the windows to crosscheck your position on the map :)
roe
roe
@JayCarr yeah, don't do that
I have flown the alps, they are awesome
lol, it sounded unadvisable. But that's Hollywood for you. It was a good line at least ;)
I want to fly over there at some point... In my own plane, so I can do the same.
if you don't know where the mountains are you will hit them
Yeah, I've read enough NTSB reports from Alaska to know that's true.
14:44
and as far as GPS units go, get someone to let you play with it on the ground for an hour or so (or download the emulator from garmin or whoever) before you attempt to use it in the air. Its a huge distraction if you arent familiar with it
roe
roe
LOWI is an excellent airport. Looks almost as cool in X-plane as in real life :)
Anyway. Early training is done without any navaids at all then?
roe
roe
yeah
map
@casey, they have fully simulated version for X-Plane, good idea?
@casey: what's the biggest aircraft you've flown?
14:45
You'll learn how to use VOR and VOR/DME as well
try to avoid playing with all the shiny boxes
@roe, wow, a bit more complex than I would have guessed. Though I"m supposing it can be done if so many do...
@shortstheory EMB-145XR
@JayCarr: you can get MS Flight Simulator for much less than X-Plane if you're stretched for cash
@shortstheory - not on my Mac I can't.
14:46
ofc X-Plane is very good, but you'll need a hell of a comp to run it
oh
@shorts
lol
@shortstheory - I have a hell of a comp, so we're good ;)
In my day job I'm a developer.
okay, in that case XPlane will do :)
Big ol computer.
Though this all reminds me I've allowed myself to get distracted again...
Sigh.
Thanks for the insight everyone. Breaks over ;).
roe
roe
@JayCarr You and me both
@casey: I've nothing against Embraer...
but wouldn't you want to fly a Boeing/Airbus instead?
like a widebody?
14:48
@shortstheory I loved the EMB, but in the end I'd prefer whatever paid the most. I'd fly a C172 is it paid more than a 777 and I'd be home every night!
2
only for money? :(
isn't piloting supposed to be loads of fun too?
I've jumpseated in a few widebodies, and sure the are nicer and roomier up front, but my EMB was more nimble and a flew it more than those guys did their plane
@shortstheory you'll probably find the 777 isn't that fun after a while, or at least I would
I guess lol; automation would probably take out some fun of flying
99% of your time at cruise, extra long legs, 3 or 4 pilots on board so you only get to takeoff/land once a trip
But the fact that you have 1,000,000 N of thrust at your disposal sure sounds great on the 777-300ER :)
14:51
and on some legs you are just a relief FO, so you dont really do anything but monitor an autopilot for part of the flight
roe
roe
@shortstheory I'd pick an EMB over a widebody anyday
@casey: what if you got the choice to fly the Concorde?
That would be FUN!
@shortstheory I'd stay with the EMB probably. The concorde is a picky airplane and would be a lot of work
Flight Engineer would take care of that :P
14:52
sure the engineer does a lot of it, but it just seems like a ton of memory items and limitations I'd have to commit to memory
(i'm probably showing off ignorance here)
all you want to do is push the thrust levers forward and pull the controlls :)
my favorite flights in the EMB were the short ones :)
like PHL to EWR (yep, in the jet)
:)
I handflew below 10k and handflew every approach except the CatII ones
and I did raw-data in IMC on occasion
(the other guy still had his FD up to monitor me)
I had fun in that plane
the widebody guys just don't do that
14:54
which airline?
ExpressJet
d/b/a Continental Express
sorry to hear that :(
I heard regional airline pilots have it really hard
and I only let the AP fly CatII because it was required for our ops
like in terms of paychecks and benefits, etc
ExpressJet was one of the top tier regionals as far as pay, benefits, vacation
14:56
like in the crash of the Colgan Air commuter Q400
though things were definitely on the way downhill when I left
oh, good to know :)
before I left...
Colgan was pretty low on the totem pole. As was Mesa
14:57
ah
Comair was the best for a while, but being the best means in contract negotiations you look out of place and they argue "everyone else does it for cheaper!"
its a hard place to maintain
The romance of being an airline pilot wears off quickly once you are actually flying the line
3
do all pilots have to start out as being regional airline pilots?
and is being a USAF pilot a more romantic career prospect?
no
If 121 airlines are you goal, the requirements are 1) they are hiring, 2) you have at least 1000 hrs turbine PIC or whatever is competitive at the time and probably 3) have friends there
so military guys generally have the jet PIC and friends
so they skip the regionals
civil guys tend not to have any turbine PIC, so you get a jet job, upgrade to captain and start logging it, and the regionals are a place to do that
but if 121 is not your end game, there is no reason to go to a regional really.
Most corp jobs seem to require experience in type, and unless they fly an EMB Legacy or a CRJ, your regional type doesnt help directly
15:02
oh, I see
thanks a lot for the answers casey! I'm looking to get involved in aerospace engineering!
@Lnafziger could speak a lot more to that career path than I can
and if you are a military guy who wants to fly widebodies, Fedex and UPS are (were?) the places to go
as they require internal recs that can be hard to come by if you dont have friends there
I once saw a FedEx DC-10 parked on the apron at Bangalore airport
what a gorgeous sight
@casey are you retired then? If you don't mind my asking...
@JayCarr Iwouldn't call it retired, I'm far too young for that. I just changed directions .
Oh. Well, again, if you don't mind my asking, what direction did you shift in?
15:11
company downsized, they reduced captains, I was one of the reductions. I flew as an FO for another 4 months and then left
I'm now a Ph.D. candidate in Meterology, researching severe storm envrionments and tornadoes
Wow. Now that, my friend, is pretty cool.
Sounds more interesting than sitting in a jump seat in a widebody...
Are you a storm chaser then?
having spent some years staring at clouds was beneficial to my studies
I chased with the VORTEX2 field project, for science
If you've ever seen the (terrible) IMAX tornado alley movie, I'm in there (uncredited of course, as almost all of us academics were)
though its limited to seeing the back of my head in a sweeping panaormic shot and seeing my vehicle a few times but unable to see who is really driving
lol, darn academics! Always wanting credit for things!
Sadly all my knowledge of tornado hunting comes from the move Twister. Which I assume is panstalkingly accurate.
Though I did watch a few episodes of that reality TV show about storm chasers. They had a fun vehicle that fired metal pegs into the ground as I recall.
15:26
I drove that one in front
sounds scary :O
And going through photos, I found this gem. Top of climb, accelerating out of Mach .60 into a 160+ kt headwind. Take a look at the groundspeed.
@shortstheory as long as you are not inside the twister or in the path of debris you'll be fine
196 G/S @ FL 360!
but 196 G/S actually seems pretty good considering the 201 KIAS and 160 KIAS headwing
*wind
sorry, just 160 kt headwind
it won't be called KIAS :)
@casey -- having a hard time reading that one...
15:33
shouldn't be too hard after messing around with XPlane for a few hours
:)
@shortstheory - you'd think that, but you would be wrong.
@shortstheory contrast it with this one
@JayCarr: I'm an avid flight simmer too!
@casey:
@shortstheory and here is a random one I shot during a walkaround I think you might enjoy
aren't you just hitting VNE in that pic?
it's awfully close to redlining the airspeed indicator
15:36
@shortstheory - lol, I'm commenting on my abilities, not X-planes ;)
@shortstheory we always flew that thing right up to the line
beautiful massive turbofans!
thanks for sharing!
I can't identify which plane it is though :/
Mmo is .80 and I was doing .799 :)
15:37
my guess would be a 777?
777
777's have incredibly huge turbofans
@casey ooooh, now I see.
i didn't even know machmeters go beyond 2 places of decimal!
@casey, this my friend, why I would want to pilot the Concorde:
you're never going to see an altimeter/GS reading like this on any other commercial airplane:
:)
and those steam gauges look retro as hell!
old plane that concorde
15:42
mmm
I mean they flew in the last millenium :)
roe
roe
@shortstheory Step on the ball, dammit!
2
:)
16:20
It's interesting how many questions are showing up that are references to Flight 370. Some of them seem like dupes...
it's what's interesting about aviation now...
@JayCarr if you think it is a dupe, flag it as such and we can get them closed
16:40
@casey - I went and looked for dupes, but apparently the ones I thought were in fact dupes were removed or...I'm crazy. Either seems likely.
or it's a stealth dupe
the kind of question that looks like a dupe but is actually a very good and unique question
Possibly. I think I thought the GPS one was a dupe because it was (kind of) similar to the question about processing satellite data and, also, a few questions about radar locations for aircraft over water.
But yeah, looking at them again, I think you're right. They just feel like dupes because they are all hinting at the same question "what happened to flight 370?"
17:22
@casey Nice weather hoopty :)
@JayCarr If you see any that don't need to have references to Flight 370 feel free to edit out the reference :)
True, we probably should be trying to keep questions as general as possible...
a lot of them are really good questions and the "Where'd flight 370 go?!" bit is incidental
@voretaq7 thanks but that one belongs to NSSL/NOAA and not me. Funny story: those vans are part of a gov't fleet lease with a lease contract that happens to gover hail damage. Given that, they tried to return the lease on the one known as "probe 1", which has not a single piece of un-dented metal, nor any if its exterior plastic pieces remaining unbroken
Fair 'nuff.
the dealer wouldn't take it back
17:25
@casey Sue da bastard :-)
that probe always happened to be where the big hail was
at one point they destroyed cracked and replaced 3 windshields in 2 days
and yes, there was a budget line item "windshield replacements" in the grant proposal :)
@voretaq7 well to be fair it was so over mileage the lease penalties woulnt have been too different than buying it, which is what they did
we were doing 3000 mi/week
:)
on a quiet week
uc boulder or cu (I cant remember) had a UAV to fly around a tornado, but the FAA would only let them fly it in a small area of NE Colorado and we never had a good intercept in their area :(
17:41
@casey - Idiotic question, probably as a result of watching twister, are you guys trying to get stuff into the tornado? What exactly are you after?
And by "stuff" I mean "highly sensitive scientific equipement"
we were trying to observe the near storm environment in supercell thunderstroms
to do that we had:
mobile mesonets -- the vans I posted, which drive around and collect data. some near the core of the storm, some further out
drop disdrometers: measures the size of rain drops falling into the sensor
to give a drop size distribution
sticknets -- things put on the ground in the path of the storm to collect the same kind of information the cars are
and not meant for a tornado intercept
balloons to measure above surface stuff, but near and ahead of the storm, not in the storm
many radars to observe the storm
photography vehicles to take stereo photographs of the storm
and I'm probably forgetting people.
but thats what I can remember off the top of my head
The probe I drove typically drove a pattern from the storm inflow, through the gust front and into the hail core and back
Wow, big team there, I would assume. What's exactly are you guys trying to figure out? I know there's a lot we still don't know about the weather...
so if a storm is moving due east, we'd drive north-south ahead of it
the basic goal is to figure out the sufficient condition for tornado formation
we know some necessary conditions, but that doesn't always end up tornadic
Well, all of us in Tornada ally thank you for that.
Ah.
So we know what conditions may cause them, but not necessarily which.
Well, you know, I have no clue.
in the 80's we thought that all supercells made tornadoes, and this was one of the selling points to get congress to buy the 88D doppler radar network we have
and then when we put the radars up, we see that the majority of supercells do not produce tornadoes
17:49
Could you possibly define super cell for me?
sure
a storm with a rotating updraft
they are the ones that often display "hook echoes" on radar
and unlike the storms you get in florida in the afternoons (one and done 45 minute shows), supercells can persist for hours
With a constant updraft?
It seems like if the storm moved it would lose it's energy source for an updraft? (This is just my very simple understanding of thermaldynamics at work...)
constant or nearly so (some can have cyclic updrafts where one is replaced by a new one)
supercells manage to keep the inflow and outflow separate, so the rain is falling not where the updraft is and the air the storm is ingesting for the most part is not modified by the storm
so the storm can have a constant influx of warm moist air
we call the energy CAPE - convective available potential energy
which is basically the integral of buoyancy through some vertical layer of the atmosphere
That's kind of crazy.
It's making a little sense though.
Where do the tornados happen?
I thought they were down drafts?
there are, just separate from the updraft
the tornado forms where the updraft and a downdraft region are in close proximity
if it forms
and our current research suggest the downdraft is not just important, but required
17:55
Is the downdraft also rotating? Or is it linear?
for the most part it is linear
there is some rotation in the downdrafts but it is not like the updraft, which can be quite dramatic
So the Tornado's are forming in between? On a boundry layer of some sort?
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