"It's adorable how you pilots all seem to think that laws are automatically internally consistent." -- My sister, a law student, after hearing about this discussion.
She thinks we're naive because when confronted with a regulatory problem we assume that there is one and only one right answer, and not that the regulations might say one thing in one place and another thing in another place, and those things might contradict each other.
Well yeah she is probably right in many ways. Either way the big misconception I think is that "private carriage" you are exercising your private pilot certificate not your CPL if it is Part 91
@p1l0t In the same sentence where you are acknowledging that it is a grey area, you're again stating that it's a black/white issue and that you are right and the others are wrong.
I'm not saying you are wrong (I don't know enough about this subject), but it's probably something that can be interpreted in different ways
@Lnafziger I have absolutely nothing to add. Looking at the regs, it seems like you are correct, but I'm probably the least informed of those involved.
well I managed to touch down fine this time, but somehow turned on to a runway instead of a taxiway, then trying to do a 3-point turn, increased my engines too much and went out of the airport! lmao
@DannyBeckett @voretaq7 and I went to a Q&A session with pilots and controllers tonight, and one of the more concerning questions was when a pilot asked if he could simply turn exit one runway onto another without approval, because that's what the controllers normally tell him to do anyway.
What was more worrisome was that the controller responded that it would be a "grey area".... a FAAST guy stepped in and said, uh, no that's not a grey area, that's considered a runway incursion.
question for you guys... I need to get my rudder setup on this PS3 controller, but on this screenshot, how come the PAPI lights say I'm lined up, but it looks as if I'm on an angle?
@Lnafziger I think it's considered an incursion because they could clear someone to take off or land on that runway seeing that you are going to cross before it becomes an issue, but if you turn onto the runway and taxi down it, then all of a sudden you are going to be on that runway a lot longer than the controller expected.
I'm not impressed with X-Plane. I keep thinking about going back to FSX, but I like that the navigation database is up to date with x-plane, and I like that it integrates with Foreflight.
quick question on VATSIM... I applied to train as a controller. I guess you also need to train as a pilot on their system before you can use it in FSX/XP?
@DannyBeckett I don't believe you have to officially train as a pilot, but you should know what you're doing (know ATC phraseology and how to control your aircraft) before using it.
The initial call to approach is still the hardest for me. There are just a lot of pieces of information you are trying to convey, and it's incredibly east to forget some of them.
You're supposed to tell them: who you're calling, who you are, where you are, what altitude you're at, what ATIS information you have, what you're intentions are, and where you're parking.
@BretCopeland It sucks that aviation radio reception/recording is illegal in both the UK and Germany. If nothing else, it would help people get acquainted with the comms, which people around here at least (Germany that is) are notoriously bad at.
@roe its a shame that is against the law there. When my instrument students used to have trouble on the radio I'd sit them in front a receiver and have them respond (to me) to anything ATC said to anyone. It definitely helped them.
@roe It is not illegal to listen to ATC using a portable receiver in Europe, as long as you have a radio license (which every pilot in Europe should have)
31 January 1951: Pan American World Airways Captain Charles F. Blair, Jr., flew his modified North American Aviation P-51C-10-NT Mustang, Excalibur III (USAAF serial number 44-10947, civil registration N1202) from New York to London in 7 hours, 48 minutes, averaging 446 miles per hour (718 kilometers per hour). Captain Blair took advantage of the jet stream, […] The post 31 January 1951 a…
31 January 1971, 04:04:02 a.m., EST: Apollo 14 lifted off for The Moon from Launch Complex 39A, Kennedy Space Center, Cape Canaveral, Florida. The Mission Commander was Captain Alan Bartlett Shepard, Jr., United States Navy. The Command Module Pilot was Colonel Stuart Allen Roosa, United States Air Force, and the Lunar Module Pilot was Captain […] The post 31 January 1971, 21:03:02 UTC, T…
@PhilippeLeybaert It is illegal in Germany as long as you're not in an aircraft or in an air traffic ground facility, even if you do have a license (which I of course do). Don't know about UK.
@PhilippeLeybaert I've read a story of guy who've actually been indicted for turning on a hand held at an expo
@Lnafziger when you get a chance, would you mind re-visiting the holding out question and cleaning up the comments to the question, they have gone way off-track imho.
@roe The phrase "Utterly ridiculous" comes to mind. Seriously - it's AM radio, how do you pass a law saying it's illegal to listen to a signal being broadcast with enough power for you to receive it?
@voretaq7 Preaching to the choir. Germany is messed up when it comes to aviation. You're also not allowed to land at an uncontrolled airfield unless it's manned by an AFIS. It's still uncontrolled, but it has to be manned.
@voretaq7 Yeah, I know. It's not limited to aviation though, it's all kinds of frequencies. If you're not police you may not listen to police frequencies, etc.
@roe we actually have/had ridiculous laws like that, they were deemed unenforceable unless security measures were taken (so now a lot of police agencies use IDEN, which isn't really "encrypted" in most places but it's "digitized" so you have to take an extra step to listen to it and that part is illegal)
it's still pretty lame because I can buy an IDEN radio pretty much anywhere that tunes those frequencies, but apparently that's "specialist equipment" and makes me a terrorist or something
@roe yeah we don't have those around here (yet). Officer Blinky (the automatic radar gun connected to a sign that tells you "Speed Limit: 30. Your speed: 80") has no teeth. All he can do is flash "80" at you in big red numbers :P
@egid I was about to say I never have but sometimes I talk to Groton and apparently they're a contract tower because they were on the "we're closing you 'cuz Congress is stupid and we're broke" list
@roe I REALLY don't understand why Europe doesn't turn ATC over to the EU to run on a regional level. Is there like one non-member-state in the middle of Europe or something?
@roe: you could be correct concerning UK and Germany, but in Belgium (and The Netherlands) it's perfectly legal (if you have an appropriate radio license)
Belgian law states that you're not allowed to listen in on frequencies that are not meant for the general public. If you have a radio license for ATC frequencies you are authorized to monitor those frequencies because you're licensed for it. Instructors use a portable VHF radio all the time when students are doing solo flights
My answer aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/1402/… here needs some love I had to put a work into it to get these guys to realize that you can't just fly people with a CPL for hire without an air carrier certificate. It is VERY well cited and not just the AC but the appropriate regs.
@voretaq7 Well, there's Switzerland right smack in the middle. But ATC is coordinated by Eurocontrol, which I think works fairly well. The real problem are all the widely diverging rules and regulations. At least they've started to address that with EASA (for example, now an EASA pilots license is valid throughout EASA without any formalities)
@PhilippeLeybaert Don't know the exact rules in the UK, i know it's legal in the Netherlands (LiveATC streams Amsterdam for example). Some instructors carry a handheld here as well, but that doesn't mean it's legal. Most instructors pop in to the "tower" and listen along with the AFIS.
@p1l0t I have a packet with a few actual cases where the courts have/have not found common carriage. It's on my desk at work; once I get in to pick it up I'll write up an answer if I think it would be useful.
@SteveV. my point is doesn't matter either way you still need the cert
@casey I did remove the part about part 91 always being the private certificate exercised I don't think that's true either. I have emailed that law firm trying to get an explanation why. I think they mean because you really don't NEED it but I think the exceptions in 119.1(e) would allow you to be flying Part 91 while exercising CPL privileges.
@p1l0t You seem to think I'm trying to prove you wrong. I actually think you're right. I'm writing up an answer because your bounty asked for credible and/or official sources, which I have a couple of.
@voretaq7 whoever comes up with a portable fusion engine that separates the hydrogen out of water molecules in the air and fuses it to produce effectively unlimited fuel, is going to make some extremely happy pilots... I mean you probably won't even notice the tumor growing on your privates until you're at least 50 :)
that's okay, we need to get our answers/question ratio up. :)
(we should all be looking at the older questions, even those with accepted answers, and see if we can provide a better answer in order to help with that.)
@egid the general FCC interpretation is that "cellular telephone" encompasses anything with a cellular radio - but to get them to say that for certain would require a lawyer (or a letter to the counsel's office)
so is ecfr.gov working for you guys? You've linked a couple of regs lately, but I just get a "Oops! Google Chrome could not find www.ecfr.gov" error message. (failed DNS lookup)
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