The Hangar

Qantas 94 Heavy

00:19

@Lnafziger: completely, I've deleted it for now

Lnafziger

@Qantas94Heavy lol, I figured, thanks. If you get the chance, feel free to edit it and undelete it. :)

@Qantas94Heavy How's it going?

Lnafziger

02:10

!!lesson 49

Otto the Autopilot

Lesson #49: When landing engine-out at night, if you don't like what you see as you are about to land, just turn off the landing light.

Stack Exchange

11:57

This Day in Aviation: 26 January 1975

posted on January 26, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

26 January 1975: In a continuing series of time-to-altitude records, Major David W. Peterson, U.S. Air Force, a test pilot assigned to the F-15 Joint Test Force at Edwards AFB, California, ran the engines of the McDonnell Douglas F-15A-6-MC, 72-0119, Streak Eagle to full afterburner while it was attached to a hold-back device on the runway at Grand Forks Air Force Base, North […] The post…

This Day in Aviation: 26 January 1990

posted on January 26, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

26 January 1990: The Lockheed SR-71 “Blackbird” is retired from service at Beale Air Force Base, California. This would prove to be a premature decision. © 2014, Bryan R. Swopes The post 26 January 1990 appeared first on This Day in Aviation.

This Day in Aviation: 27 January 1939

posted on January 27, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

27 January 1939: First Lieutenant Benjamin Scovill Kelsey, United States Army Air Corps, made the first flight of the prototype Lockheed XP-38 Lightning, serial number 37-457, at March Field, Riverside County, California. This was a short flight. Immediately after takeoff, Kelsey felt severe vibrations in the airframe. Three of four flap support rods had failed, leaving the flaps unusable. […

Stack Exchange

13:45

This Day in Aviation: 27 January 1957

posted on January 27, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

27 January 1957: The last North American Aviation F-51D Mustang fighters in operational service with the United States Air Force were retired from the 167th Fighter Squadron, West Virginia Air National Guard, Martinsburg, West Virginia. The airplane in the photographs below, North American Aviation F-51D-30-NA 44-74936, was was transferred to the National Museum of the United States Air Force, …

Stack Exchange

14:45

This Day in Aviation: 27 January 1967, 23:31:21 UTC

posted on January 27, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

27 January 1967: During a “plugs out” test of the Apollo 1 capsule, two weeks ahead of the scheduled launch of the AS-204 Saturn 1B—the first manned Apollo Program space flight—a fire broke out in the pressurized pure oxygen environment and very quickly involved the entire interior. The pressure rapidly built to 29 pounds per […] The post 27 January 1967, 23:31:21 UTC appeared…

voretaq7

16:09

@BretCopeland I've not been to the ice runway yet - I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of landing on a frozen lake :)

(it's not so much the "frozen lake" part as the "expect braking action to be nil" part)

Geoffrey Gallaway

16:22

What's the proper format to quote someone's questions in a reply? Use a blockquote like I did on aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/1363/… ?

abelenky

@Geoffrey Looks good to me.

Geoffrey Gallaway

alright, thanks.

abelenky

well, except that all the numbers came out as "1.".
(even though they seem different in your source.....)

Geoffrey Gallaway

odd. I guess I can just remove the numbers.

voretaq7

@abelenky Markdown kills babies.

abelenky

16:36

LOL. Markdown is great, when it works....

@Lnafziger: You in here? (re: chat about sterile cockpit)

Lnafziger

hey hey

abelenky

so the flip side, is any guidelines on when its okay to break sterile cockpit?
I've been doing pattern-practice, and asked tower about a football score.

Lnafziger

@GeoffreyGallaway That's perfect.

abelenky

Obviously, that's not a sterile cockpit.... but in clear VFR, and easy flying, its no big deal.... right?

Don't always know where to draw the line. :)

Lnafziger

Well, like so much, if you ask the FAA they will say that it is a big deal because in their minds it is all very black and white.

Geoffrey Gallaway

16:39

I have (hopefully gently) asked non-pilots friends to be quiet during landing.

Lnafziger

If they give a pilot an inch, he will take a mile. :-)

That being said, one quick isolated comment is very unlikely to cause a problem, but they would still frown on it.

abelenky

heh.... true, true.

Once my instructor kept trying to blab and blab on final....
I got increasingly terse with him, and started ignoring him.

But I never actually told him to be quite/sterile.

Geoffrey Gallaway

"Please shut up."

abelenky

Once on the ground, he said he was trying to draw me in, and I should've shut him up.

Lnafziger

I include that in my briefing to passengers in light airplanes, before we ever leave the ground. "For safety reasons, we shouldn't talk during takeoff and landing because you don't want to distract the pilot, right? laugh Make sure that if you see something that looks dangerous (like another airplane) that you point it out though!"

Yeah, sometimes you need to be assertive, but it's tough when it's someone in a position of authority like your instructor or the captain.

Geoffrey Gallaway

16:43

@Lnafziger It shouldn't be! :)

Lnafziger

@GeoffreyGallaway True, but new pilots need to learn that! :)

Geoffrey Gallaway

Thankfully my instructor showed me the ISOlate switch on the radio panel. :)

Lnafziger

lmao, that's useful too!

casey

@abelenky the proper procedure to get football scores in the pattern is to tune your ADF receiver to the local AM station and monitor it.

Geoffrey Gallaway

@casey If your plane has a working ADF these days. :)

casey

16:50

true. We had one in the EMB-145 (but were not authorized to fly approaches with it). It was great for tuning in coast-to-coast AM on redeyes!

abelenky

No kidding.... I took a Cessna 162 out not long ago, and was amazed at what it DOESN'T have.

Lnafziger

@casey Haha, funny

What is a 162?

Geoffrey Gallaway

A skycatcher

casey

Also, not all ADF receivers are the same, some don't have the freq range necessary to get all of the AM stations

abelenky

While its got a great GPS/glass cockpit, it only had 1 radio (one active, one standby).
No ADF/DME/VOR/NDB..... which means no AM stations, and no Voice-over-VOR.

Geoffrey Gallaway

16:51

also known as: LOLNO

casey

no voice over VOR? no fun. I always called flight watch received over a VOR just to do it.

while receiving

Lnafziger

!!wiki Cessna 162

Otto the Autopilot

Cessna 162 Skycatcher

{| |} The Cessna 162 Skycatcher is a side-by-side two-seat, high-wing, strut-braced, tricycle gear light-sport aircraft (LSA). The latest aircraft in the Cessna general aviation product line, its intended market is flight training and personal use. The Skycatcher received its ASTM LSA approval in July 2009. In October 2013 Cessna CEO Scott Ernest stated that the Skycatcher had "no future". Development Cessna had announced its intentions to study the feasibility of developing and producing an LSA on 6 June 2006. The concept design was unveiled on 24 July 2006 at EAA AirVenture Oshkos...

abelenky

No ILS.... no white-tail light.... no nose-steering....

Lnafziger

Wow, it's been a long time since I've flown light airplanes.

Geoffrey Gallaway

16:53

@abelenky The 172 I flew a few weeks ago had a broken second radio. It was more frustrating than I had expected.

Lnafziger

Ahh, it's a LSA.

abelenky

No trimwheel.... (electric trim switch on the yoke, but that doesn't have any "feel" to it)

I just cannot believe the pricing on those.... and everything you don't get.

Geoffrey Gallaway

I think Cessna said the skycatcher has "no future" or something like that.

abelenky

Yup.

flyingmag.com/blogs/going-direct/…

Geoffrey Gallaway

Wow, only 275 built.

abelenky

16:55

My club has 2 of them.

They're not even very good for instruction... a lot of the larger pilots cannot instruct in them.

Lnafziger

The wiki page says that it was being removed from the LSA category and to a normal airplane.

abelenky

(I got checked out by a little 95lbs. woman)

Interesting... to do that, it will need a few things.
(I'm not sure the current one even has a Whiskey Compass)

Geoffrey Gallaway

wow, i had no idea the 162 had so many "issues" during testing

Lnafziger

!!google how much is a cessna 152

Otto the Autopilot

@Lnafziger controller.com/list/… ; controller.com/list/list.aspx?manu=CESSNA&mdltxt=150 ; trade-a-plane.com/for-sale/aircraft/by-make/cessna/152

abelenky

17:07

BTW: If someone wants a question, "What is Voice-over-VOR?" would be a good Q to ask.

Lnafziger

@PhilippeLeybaert Sorry, I missed the "See and avoid" in your question and just saw the "99% of pilots won't be looking outside" part, lol.

Philippe Leybaert

:-) You're forgiven

Europe is safer in that respect. Everything above +/- 5,000 ft is class C

You can fly 2000 miles north to south in clear skies without ever looking outside

Lnafziger

Haha, nice.

abelenky

So if you were to buy a small plane in the neighborhood of $15 - $30K... what would it be? 152?

Philippe Leybaert

You would be revectored about every 10 minutes though. Airspace complexity in Europe is crazy

Lnafziger

17:13

@PhilippeLeybaert That it is.

@PhilippeLeybaert Note however, that even being in Class A airspace at 40,000 ft, you are still required to comply with "see and avoid" here (91.113). Not that it's likely to be an issue....

Philippe Leybaert

Do you? You don't have to answer that :)

abelenky

Isn't it kinda funny that class A (USA) is *not* see and avoid?
(I saw him.... but I didn't avoid him, because I'm not required to.... now we're both dead)

Philippe Leybaert

I guess it's all about "big sky"...

Lnafziger

@abelenky Class A in the US IS see and avoid. (That's what we were just talking about.)

voretaq7

@abelenky All airspace is "see and avoid" in the USA

Philippe Leybaert

17:19

I've wondered why they didn't make it a rule that VFR traffic should always cruise at altitudes that are "random" like 8,350 feet or so, given that IFR traffic is always assigned altitudes in multiples of 500

abelenky

ah.... my bad.

Lnafziger

@PhilippeLeybaert IFR traffic here is at 1,000 ft intervals and the VFR traffic is a the "middle" 500 ft point, at 1,000 ft intervals.

abelenky

I thought IFR traffic is given round-thousands... and VFR traffic is suppose to fly at 500-fts.

voretaq7

@PhilippeLeybaert they did :-): VFR altitudes are xx500 and IFR altitudes are xx000

Philippe Leybaert

VFR in class E can fly anywhere

abelenky

17:21

LOL... all three of us at once. :)

Philippe Leybaert

without radio

Lnafziger

(ie IFR is 5,000, 6,000, 7,000, etc and VFR is 5,500, 6,500, 7,500, etc.)

abelenky

VFR *can* fly anywhere.... but is *supposed to* choose X,500.
(I'm not sure what the legal definition of *supposed to* is)

Philippe Leybaert

I'm not talking about flight following VFR traffic

Lnafziger

@abelenky Well, at least I aid "here"... Europe is different, lol.

Philippe Leybaert

17:22

If a VFR flight is cruising at 5,000 feet, it would be perfectly legal

Lnafziger

Not in the US. 91.159

(unless within 3,000 ft AGL)

voretaq7

even though they only apply between 3000MSL and 18,000 MSL you're generally expected to comply with 91.159 (VFR cruising altitudes) any time you're at cruise

(not that I'd want to be "cruising" below 3000 feet anyway, but as we've already established I'm a wuss and don't like being near the ground :-P)

Philippe Leybaert

"You're expected" or "You're required" ?

Big difference

voretaq7

@PhilippeLeybaert above 3000 feet you're required

below that it's good practice

but there's not much airspace in that "below" in most of the country

Lnafziger

91.159 "Except while holding in a holding pattern of 2 minutes or less, or while turning, each person operating an aircraft under VFR in level cruising flight more than 3,000 feet above the surface shall maintain the appropriate altitude or flight level prescribed below, unless otherwise authorized by ATC:"

Philippe Leybaert

17:25

hmm... I was misinformed then

Lnafziger

"(1) On a magnetic course of zero degrees through 179 degrees, any odd thousand foot MSL altitude +500 feet (such as 3,500, 5,500, or 7,500); or

(2) On a magnetic course of 180 degrees through 359 degrees, any even thousand foot MSL altitude +500 feet (such as 4,500, 6,500, or 8,500)."

Philippe Leybaert

That explains the safety of class E I guess

Lnafziger

(other than above 18,000 ft.)

Of course, that's only during "level cruising flight". They still have to climb and descend.

Philippe Leybaert

So unless one or the other plane is climbing or descending, you should be safe

voretaq7

@Lnafziger I also like how "turning" is exempted, because apparently holding a level altitude while turning is hard or something?

Lnafziger

17:28

@voretaq7 Well, you can pass through a heading of 180 so would have to climb/descend immediately, even if doing clearing turns. ;-)

voretaq7

@Lnafziger true, but in a normal case (or at least what's normal for me - i.e. not on a due-north/due-south course) the 5-10 degree turns you make from waypoint to waypoint aren't going to require you to change cruising altitudes :)

Lnafziger

@voretaq7 Yeah, but then there are the pilots (or FAA inspectors) who follow the regs to the letter. So they had to spell it out.

Oh, and mid-airs can happen in Class A. Remember the Legacy & 737 that collided over Brazil?

voretaq7

@Lnafziger mumbles something about "stupid transponder"

Lnafziger

ntsb.gov/aviationquery/…

@voretaq7 Yeah, and stupid atc....

Anyway, I'm off to find lunch.

Talk to you guys later!

Philippe Leybaert

Well, my question got downvoted :)

Someone didn't like the fact that I accuse him/her of not looking outside while cruising

Lnafziger

17:41

@PhilippeLeybaert Haha, that's probably it.

@PhilippeLeybaert You may want to edit it so as not to be quite so controversial with that part.

Philippe Leybaert

Replace "99%" with "most" ? :)

Or "many" or "some". Although "some" would be stretching it

Lnafziger

It might be stretching it, but at least people won't take it personally then. :)

(and even if there is only one pilot, it creates the hazard for the rest of us)

Philippe Leybaert

I'll go with many. As in "Many people drive faster than the speed limit on the freeway"

We all know that's way more than 50%

abelenky

18:11

liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips/go-hawks!

Lnafziger

18:48

airsafe.com/podcasts/jfk-kid-controller.mp3

Geoffrey Gallaway

my first real LOL of the week aviationhumor.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/…

3

voretaq7

@Lnafziger hey, that kid was doing a decent job!

(Rejected FAA hiring campaign poster #781: "ATC: So easy a child can do it!")

Lnafziger

@voretaq7 He was! Too bad it caused so much controversy in the media!

@GeoffreyGallaway Pretty funny!

Bret Copeland

@Lnafziger yes, because that rouge child was just issuing takeoff clearances on his own. Obviously no adult told him what to say, and was therefore taking responsibility for ensuring accuracy and safety.

2

voretaq7

@Lnafziger THAT caused an uproar in the media, but this moron barely got a few lines in the newpapers

Lnafziger

18:57

@BretCopeland LMAO, exactly!

voretaq7

@BretCopeland yeah if you listen to the long version of that tape there were one or two times the controller on the frequency had to handle something rather than telling the kid what to say - it's really not that different from having a developmental controller plugged in.

Lnafziger

@voretaq7 Yeah, I love that one. I was actually looking for that the other day to show someone!

voretaq7

@Lnafziger "Stupid pilot tricks" doesn't even begin to cover that one. I literally can't sit through that tape

I usually lose it at "Let us know if we're all up in your grill" . . . I'm not sure ANY of those words are in the pilot/controller glossary

Lnafziger

"This might be crazy, but are we allowed to land on the beach?"

voretaq7

that and "our engine is running a teeny bit rough" . . . so you chose to land on Rockaway Beach instead of THE BIG AIRPORT with 4 runways and mechanics and such?

Bret Copeland

19:01

@voretaq7 wow

voretaq7

@BretCopeland yeah. "wow"

Bret Copeland

Anything happen to that guy? ... such as, "hey, you're never allowed to fly again... even as a passenger."

Lnafziger

"Yeah, we're not going to declare an emergency, but we're going to land on the beach."

Geoffrey Gallaway

@voretaq7 that ATC audio makes me laugh every time

@BretCopeland he lost his license from what i remember, i also feel like he had some medical issue...

Lnafziger

medical issue like "&#&$*in mentally unstable"? I'm pretty sure that disqualifying.

Stack Exchange

19:05

0

Q: Is this question on-topic? "What aviation-related TV shows are there?"

Interested to see what other suggestions people have, I've asked What aviation-related TV shows are there? This discussion is to try to determine whether it's on-topic, as a Community Wiki resource.

Geoffrey Gallaway

nydailynews.com/new-york/…

Lnafziger

asias.faa.gov/pls/apex/…

Bret Copeland

Flying the south shore at 500, you definitely recognize the beach as your only option if something goes wrong, but it is in no way tempting to land on. That recording is just disturbing. Feel mostly bad for his passengers.

Lnafziger

That pilot doesn't have a valid medical, although he still has a pilot license according to the FAA database. He probably isn't allowed to fly for awhile though (which is why he didn't bother renewing his medical). Either that or no one that he knows will fly with him anymore.

@BretCopeland Yeah, 6 passengers.

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 have you ever flown the south shore while Kennedy was landing 04L/R? That seems like it would be intense/dangerous.

@Lnafziger what day are you flying up here for the Super Bowl?

Lnafziger

19:14

Or takeoff from TEB when EWR is landing South? That's always fun too.

@BretCopeland The 2nd (day of the Superbowl) and we leave after the game.

Okay, now I'm really going to lunch. Be back later.

Bret Copeland

@Lnafziger I never even thought about that. Do they just give you an altitude restriction or a vector somewhere out of the approach course?

@Lnafziger That's a fast turn around. Are you just going to wait at the airport?

Lnafziger

@BretCopeland Yeah, they level us off at 1,500 ft and the airliners are at 2,000 feet directly above the field.

Bret Copeland

Crazy.

Lnafziger

@BretCopeland And yeah, we'll stay there. It isn't like there will be a hotel room available within about 1,000 miles anyway.

Bret Copeland

Alright... happy lunching.

Lnafziger

19:18

It's a VFR departure which automatically transitions to IFR after you make it a certain distance from the field (or something like that).

!!charts teb

Otto the Autopilot

TEB - FAA Approach Plates

Bret Copeland

TEB8 I assume.

Lnafziger

No, there's a different one that isn't there. Odd

It's the Dalton visual departure

teterborousersgroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/…

casey

@Lnafziger I always got that from the other side "Cross TEB at or above 2500 cleared ILS 22L approach, contact newark tower"

or maintain 2500 or above until passing TEB. some variation on that

The departure out of chicago midway keeps you low too, jets at 2000 iirc to stay under ORD traffic

Lnafziger

It is in the Jeppesen charts... Here's a document that shows it on the last page: boeing.com/commercial/noise/TEBnap2006.pdf

@casey Yeah, it's an odd procedure.

@casey At my last job we got an OpSpec deviation so that we could takeoff VFR when using the procedure. Otherwise we were given "indefinite" delays (had some that were 2-3 hours at the company) when the winds were just right.

Since we aren't allowed to depart VFR from an airport with an operating control tower normally.

Anyway, food calls!

casey

19:29

@Lnafziger I wasnt around during the ATR days of ExpressJet but those guys could depart and arrive EWR VFR. The whole field would be delays due to TRACON saturation and they'd depart and fly up the hudson. On the way in they'd fly down the hudson and orbit near the Lady until the tower would let them in. fun

Bret Copeland

19:40

Doing the math based on a 3° glide slope to runway 4L at JFK puts the aircraft at 880ft crossing over the south shore. And that's when they're actually on GS, not slightly below, which is always possible. That's really close if you're at 500ft and hoping to not be killed by wake turbulence.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland actually they were using them when I did my night cross-country, we just went through at 3500 feet though and it was quiet

I've never done the "skim along at or below 500 feet" thing - I don't like Long Beach that much :)

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 Besides being a little risky, I quite enjoyed it.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland it'd probably make for nice sightseeing over Long Beach

Bret Copeland

@voretaq7 It seemed like the easiest way to get over to the Verrazano.

voretaq7

@BretCopeland yeah if you're doing the Hudson corridor and you can't get cleared in from the east you're kinda stuck with it

Anonymous

23:50

@DannyBeckett

Anonymous

1

Q: What aviation-related movies are there?

This question aims to serve as a Community Wiki resource. Feel free to edit the list of aviation-related movies below! Related: What aviation-related TV shows are there?

general-aviation

Anonymous

the movie with the snakes in the plane

Anonymous

does it count as aviation-related?

Danny Beckett

@PatoSáinz haha I guess it does

Anonymous

it's an horror movie also

Anonymous

23:51

great movie iirc

Danny Beckett

I also liked it (I'm ashamed to say, since most people hated it :p)

Lnafziger

It's mostly on an airplane, lol.

Anonymous

lol

Anonymous

4

Q: Is it possible to "pimp up your aircraft" with an audio system?

Can aircraft be modified to have an enormous audio system, like the ones in cars? Has the FAA got any regulations on this (or maybe on in-cabin maximum noise volume?), would power be a limitation for the audio system?

faa-regulations aircraft-design

Anonymous

i love how this question went from -2

Anonymous

23:52

to being on really good positive numbers

Lnafziger

That makes me think of Soul Plane

Anonymous

is there anything like the "love plane"?

Anonymous

Because we've got the love boat

Lnafziger

Any of you know about this:

0

Q: How do the European ATC strikes affect us as pilots?

So every once in awhile I see an article talking about the air traffic control strikes in Europe like this one: European air traffic controllers to strike. How does this affect me if I am flying to Europe?

air-traffic-control european-union

Anonymous

oooh i know i'll add my latin american show

Danny Beckett

23:55

@PatoSáinz is it in English?

@Lnafziger sadly not, but I'm interested to see the answer!

Anonymous

Anonymous

"the lord of the skies" available in US via Telemundo

Lnafziger

@DannyBeckett Ahh well, hopefully someone will have experience with it for us. It's a very strange concept to me that they can even do that.

Transcript for