The Hangar

Steve V.

19:02

!!taf KBTL

Otto the Autopilot

KBTL 101736Z 1018/1118 17009KT 3SM BR OVC004
FM101930 16009KT 2SM -RA BR OVC009
FM102245 16012KT 2SM RA BR OVC009
FM110300 18016G23KT 1 1/2SM -RA BR OVC005
FM110500 19014G21KT 1SM -RA BR OVC003
FM111100 22012KT 1SM BR OVC003

egid

!!weather kbfi

Otto the Autopilot

BFI/KBFI: Boeing Field King County International Airport • Observed: 11 mins ago • Wind: 180°/S @ 9kts; gusts @ 18kts • Visibility: 10.0mi/16.09km • Clouds: Overcast @ 1,700ft • Temperature: 9.4°C/49°F • Dewpoint: 5.6°C/42°F • Pressure: 30.09" Hg/1,019mb • Conditions: MVFR

called2voyage

!!forecast MGE

Otto the Autopilot

@called2voyage That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.

called2voyage

19:05

Oh, I guess he hasn't implemented that yet.

Anonymous

called2voyage

!!weather MGE

Anonymous

my body is ready

Anonymous

somebody fly me to Cali

Otto the Autopilot

MGE/KMGE: Dobbins Air Reserve Base Airport • Observed: 8 mins ago • Wind: 100°/E @ 7kts • Visibility: 1.25mi/2.01km • Clouds: Overcast @ 300ft • Temperature: 8.7°C/48°F • Dewpoint: 8.7°C/48°F • Pressure: 30.12" Hg/1,020mb • Conditions: LIFR

Zirak

19:34

@PatoSáinz Obviously. But of course, Perl is second to COBOL.

abelenky

!!weather kojc

Otto the Autopilot

OJC/KOJC: Johnson County Executive Airport • Observed: 42 mins ago • Wind: 150°/SSE @ 3kts • Visibility: 0.25mi/0.4km • Clouds: Obscured @ 0ft • Temperature: 2.8°C/37°F • Dewpoint: 2.8°C/37°F • Pressure: 29.56" Hg/1,001mb • Conditions: LIFR

Zirak

ooohhh, awesome

abelenky

Hooray, I just passed 1,000 rep.

egid

19:47

@lnafziger, thanks for the question ref: that got me exactly what I needed (proof that the AC is outdated)!

@abelenky nice! congrats!

Anonymous

20:01

hot net question: why are dirt and bugs so bad etc

egid

@DannyBeckett does the XML provide different results for "no such airport" and "no weather data"?

Anonymous

we are having our good share of hot net questions ;)

voretaq7

@PatoSáinz we're hovering in the 200-visits-per-day range too, not too shabby.

!!metar xkta

@egid (since that doesn't exist anymore) :-)

oh well it definitely doesn't exist with the first two letters swapped :P

....I hope I didn't break otto :P

Steve V.

20:18

!!live

Otto the Autopilot

@SteveV. You do not have permission to use the command live

Steve V.

welp there's your answer

lnafziger

21:24

@egid no problem, cool website huh?

egid

yeah, i think the weirdest part of all the government regs libraries is how many there are

ecfr.gov, regulations.gov, faa.gov

lnafziger

Yeah, no kidding

Anyway, back to "work" (sitting at FL270 at the moment).

egid

>:(

voretaq7

@egid the wonderful thing about government standards is how many you have to pick from!

egid

it's true

lnafziger

21:34

I'd post a picture, but chat doesn't make it easy. :(

egid

@lnafziger are you working on a FAR/AIM command for the bot?

if not i might mess around with that this weekend

voretaq7

I wish the AIM was conveniently available in link-friendly HTML

the FAA AIM online is terrible :(

egid

well there are at least 2 online aim versions, too, i think

2

A: Do pilots using an electronic flight bag need to carry paper charts?

Yes, if you only carry one EFB, then you have to also carry paper charts as a backup. See AC 120-76B. a. Paper Data Removal. At least two operational EFBs are required to remove paper products that contain aeronautical charts, checklists, or other data required by the operating rules. The ...

Do you guys know if this is the case?

I've never actually heard charts described as mandatory information for part 91.

faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/faq/#q8b

> "Not all pilots are required to carry a chart." "91.503..requires the pilot in command of large and multiengine airplanes to have charts." "Other operating sections of the FAR such as Part 121 and Part 135 operations have similar requirements."

Steve V.

@egid My answer at the bottom there says "If you would ordinarily need to carry charts, you still do unless you have dual EFBs."

I didn't mean to indicate that paper charts were required all the time.

voretaq7

21:51

@egid that HTML one is the "good" one :-)

@egid AFAIK for part 91 VFR you aren't required to have the charts (but it's a REALLY GOOD IDEA because of 91.103)

IDK about for IFR -- specifically SIDs/STARs/approaches. You could make the case that you don't NEED the approach procedures if they're programmed into your panel GPS...

Steve V.

edited

hasta la vista for now

voretaq7

Incidentally, related to that answer: "provided the EFB does not replace any equipment or operating information required by the regulations." is an interesting point. e.g. even though I have a copy of my AFM on my ipad I still need the paper one in the plane at all times.

Stack Exchange

0

Q: Appropriateness of asking the group for a software evaluation

I'm about to get a web-based weight and balance program for 747s working. It's a free, open-source project that I've been working on for 3 years, primarily just an exercise to learn Javascript and keep my aging brain active (I'm 74). When it becomes usable, hopefully in the next few weeks, would ...

discussion

egid

22:35

@voretaq7 technically even for IFR you are just required to have a description of the approach. I think the approach overlay in a GPS is not sufficient.

however, you could scrawl the relevant information on a napkin using a grease pencil (good luck!) and technically as long as it was accurate you could shoot the approach legally

voretaq7

@egid I don't know that the approach info in the GPS wouldn't qualify as a "description" -- particularly if you've got one that shows an approach plate (there are panel-mounts that do that, right?)

egid

it would have to show the plate, which is separate from the actual GPS approach info

voretaq7

. . . perhaps I should camp out on the doorstep of the local FSDO...

egid

it's supplementary and in an MFD

and what's in your gps (the overlay) doesn't include altitudes, etc

even G1000 with more advanced approach data don't necessarily know how high you should be over WAYPT

voretaq7

@egid your description doesn't have to be the plate does it? It could theoretically be just text (which your GPS or a fancy FMS could show...)

egid

22:44

yes, but nothing does that that i'm aware of ;)

that's my point about the napkin

voretaq7

@egid yeah stuff like the various minima would need to be shown too

egid

but you need to have the full description

to my knowledge, you can't get that from any panel-mount GPS units; those that have plates are literally displaying the plate (poorly) on a screen

as of the G1000, they were basically unusable

i haven't flown Perspective

voretaq7

@egid you have the information - the regs say nothing about it being usable. (Grease pencil, napkin :-D )

I find it hilarious that my iPad is still superior as a navigational tool to pretty much every panel-mount GPS I've encountered.

abelenky

I interviewed for a software development position at Garmin, and learned what they have to deal with, regulatory-wise, that slows them down.

iPad apps aren't covered by regulations, so they can iterate far faster... and do more.

egid

well, Garmin also apparently don't have anybody who is an expert in user experience or interaction design

regulations aside

they literally just don't have a team that focuses on HCI

abelenky

22:52

I envision the day when planes will have "regulatory" GPS equipment... but it will barely hit the minimums (smallest screen possible, least information possible). And everyone will use "unapproved" iPad apps as their PFD/MFD.

I'm convinced they try to have good HCI.... they're better than others (Bendix/King anyone?)... but held back by other factors.

voretaq7

@egid The Marquis de Sade is totally an expert in UI/UX design :-)

@abelenky . . . aren't we there now?

even the guys flying the G1000 panels or the GTN600 series are carrying ipads - I bet they use them more than the panel GPS

problem is you still have to program your route and approach on the shitty panel-mount beast's UI

abelenky

Pretty close.... but not quite.
The displays in the 172/162 I fly could get smaller and more unobtrusive.
Then move those displays out of the way.
Then put an iPad Docking station front-and-center in the cockpit. :)

With Garmin's newest stuff, you can plan it on the iPad, then bluetooth it to your Avionics, and your watch.

egid

@abelenky I'm not so sure. The number of students who screw up basic data entry by mashing CRSR a second time (rather than ENT) is extreme.

abelenky

Fair point.

egid

and that's consistent across Garmin products, not limited to G1000 or GNS430

abelenky

22:59

Other than the crappy display, I actually really like my old Garmin 196.

voretaq7

@abelenky the number of times your data entry gets screwed up because you hit a little air pocket and your finger BUMPED CRSR instead of ENT is too damn high :)

abelenky

Everything was very simple, and it showed a very basic map.

(hey, I said I interviewed there... I don't actually work there! I'm not responsible for CRSR/ENT)

voretaq7

@abelenky the blame: you gets it! :)

abelenky

LOL.

If I had worked there, apparently there are some really good employee discounts.

I woulda blown my whole paycheck right back at the company.

egid

heh

the Apple Technique

voretaq7

23:04

@abelenky . . . o O ( Is it worth working at Garmin to get a GTN 650 for less-than-my-soul dollars? )

abelenky

Indeed, that is the question.

voretaq7

( I wonder if Aspen has a decent discount program? The IFD 440 looks schweet! ) O o . . .

will-sell-soul-for-panel-gps-that-doesnt-suck

:-P

abelenky

I've heard some horror stories about working there.... but more generally on the Consumer side (car-GPS... running watches, etc....). I hear the Aviation side is pleasant and professional. Just moves at a snails pace to develop or produce anything.

voretaq7

THANKS FAA!

abelenky

But.... TGIF. I'm leaving work.
Maybe I'll get to fly this weekend?

have fun yall.
Radar Services Terminated, Squwak VFR.

Steve V.

23:10

someday i'll have a job that will pay me to sit on SE chat...

But today is not that day.

voretaq7

23:26

@egid It pains me so to admit that one of my favorite things to do is perhaps not the safest of operations :-/

(but at least I'm cognizant of that fact!)

Terry

23:42

Hi, just a test to see if I can post here.

egid

@voretaq7 it's also not the worst

but it shouldn't be a normal operation

@Terry looks good

Terry

Thank you.

egid

welcome aboard, I'm looking forward to taking a look at your W&B app

Falk

Hi Terry, is your app really thought to be used with a 747 or is it some kind of slang?

egid

@Falk I think it's a calculator designed for use with heavy aircraft, including the 747, based on what he has described

Terry

23:55

It's a total rewrite of a DOS program I originally wrote in 1988 to do weight & balance for 747 freighters.

It could, of course, be modified for any aircraft, although it's structure is very much setup for large cargo aircraft.

The project is primarily a way of my learning Javascript, which in turn is an exercise to keep my 74 year old brain from completely atrophying.

It's not quiet operational yet, but you can look at it at 747.terryliittschwager.com. It's open-source, so it's no-cost. Whether anyone will ever use it, I don't know, but that's beside the point for me personally.

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