The Hangar - 2014-02-05 (page 1 of 2)

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1:29 AM

This Day in Aviation: 4–9 February 1982

posted on February 04, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

4–9 February 1982: Sikorsky test pilots Nicholas D. Lappos, Byron Graham, Jr., David R. Wright, and Thomas F. Doyle, Jr., set a series of Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI) speed, time-to-climb and sustained altitude world records while flying a Sikorsky S-76A helicopter, serial number 760178, FAA registration N5445J, at Palm Beach, Florida. On 4 February, Nick Lappos, who had made t…

1 hour later…

2:58 AM

@SteveV. Haha, we quoted the same passage from the AIM.

We did?

haha nice

No fair, you edited afterwards.

I wouldn't have answered if I knew you were going to include it later.

Yeah, we posted it at almost exactly the same time (my edit and your answer).

I took some time to add examples though. ;-)

Crap! you beat me by six seconds.

Lnafziger: 2014-02-05 02:58:02Z
Steve V.: 201-02-05 02:58:08Z

lmao

so mad i can't count

:)

3:03 AM

Question for you.

Do you normally up-vote questions that you answer?

if i think they're good questions.

ummm, you actually answer bad questions?

;-)

Sometimes, yeah. Example.

5

Q: Bullets disappear after a certain distance in Far Cry 3?

I have realised that my shots don't register when I try long-range sniping in FC3 .. Is this a bug that I'm having or does the game really stop registering bullets after a certain distance ? Anyone else realised this ? If so, what is the maximum distance do bullets travel in the game ?

(currently looking for a bad question i answered)

(i thought i earned Reversal once on Arqade)

Well, I just see it a lot (and noticed that you didn't upvote his question this time so figured I'd ask). In my mind if the question is good enough to warrant an answer to me, then it is good enough to get an upvote.... Just a thought. :)

If the question is a bad one then I wouldn't answer it, and instead would vote to close or vote a duplicate, etc.

You have a high opinion of your own answers it seems. "Any question good enough for an @Lnafziger answer obviously deserves THREE upvotes!"

:P

(the "bullets" question was a good question that i upvoted, by the way)

3:08 AM

Haha, nah, just my own philosophy that I don't answer "bad" questions. :-)

hold onna second

I'm guilty of answering a question that was closed while I was composing :)

@Lnafziger At some point we'll start getting really lousy questions that might get an answer, but aren't really worth an upvote

@casey LOL, that's funny.

What's the purpose of a question downvote, if a "bad" question gets voted to close?

3:09 AM

@SteveV. Well, I may downvote too (instead of voting to close). Depends on what's wrong with it.

@Lnafziger yea, and it seems the SE engine will let you answer it as long as you have a page with the submit button on it, i.e. after its already closed but you didn't refresh to get the page with no answer box on it

@SteveV. "This question does not show any research effort ; it is unclear or not useful"

@voretaq7 Right, but I wouldn't answer or give it an upvote in that case.

(I'm not a fan of that last part though, because we have close reasons for that)

I think we're in kind of a honeymoon period right now. I downvote stuff on Arqade all the time that I don't vote to close.

I asked only because i think there's a difference between a bad question (downvote) and something that's not actually a question but it has a question mark at the end (close).

And I've internalized this pretty hard.

73

Q: A Close Vote is not a Super-Downvote. Please don't use it as one

So, yesterday a dumb question was asked.. It was closed as Not A Real Question in less than an hour, and reopened mere minutes later. This isn't the first time that this has happened. It usually results in lots of arguing and acrimony and generally all comes out of a simple misunderstanding. The...

discussion closing voting

3:13 AM

IMHO most "bad" questions should be closed rather than downvoting - that's the whole purpose of the "on hold" change: making it clear your question should be fixed

I agree with both of you on that.

though I mainly feel that way because closing is reversible. Downvotes never go away (be honest, how many times have you gone back to see if a question got fixed to reverse a downvote?)

Heh, never, unless I starred it because I wanted to see what would happen to it later.

@SteveV. at least you're honest about it :)

Only a couple of times.

But I don't down vote much either.

3:16 AM

Once a Q is on hold it gets automatically put for a reopen vote once the owner edits it, right?

Personally I think downvotes should be cleared (zero the score if negative) when questions are reopened but that idea got shot down

@casey yup

I think so. I remember Jeff / Joel (one of the two) blogged about the new "on hold" system and said something about that.

actually it's if anyone edits it

good to know

You guys are going to think I eat babies or something, but I don't think so. Downvotes mean that a question is stupid. If it's edited, but it's the same question, it's not going to get less stupid.

3:18 AM

downvotes are a crap teaching tool though - this is one of the problems I have on SF. People pile on downvotes to like -20. At some point it's just overkill.

@SteveV. Well that gets into the very subjective territory of "What is a bad question?"

Not bad. Stupid. "Does the crew of the SSV Normandy have to hot-bunk?" was a question I asked when Mass Effect 3 came out. It was a stupid question.

It got (rightfully) downvoted.

It's a real question. You can count the number of crew on the Normandy and count the number of bunks and divide.

But it's stupid.

Downvoting things that "don't belong on the site" is a good thing (so is closing them as off-topic), but like I said downvoting is permanent :)

Well, if it doesn't belong on the site I skip right to close.

I use downvoting more on meta where it also means "I don't agree with you".

@SteveV. Real-world example: this is sitting at -4 on Server Fault

Even if the guy fixes his question (by rewriting it to explain exactly what he's trying to do/what problem he wants to solve) he's never getting out of that hole

@Lnafziger that's basically the use case for downvoting

I really don't see the point of downvoting questions honestly :-/

Its useful when you don't have the rep for close votes

3:24 AM

@casey Well, that's when you are supposed to flag.

(if you feel that it should be closed but can't)

@casey but downvotes and close votes aren't supposed to be the same thing

For zero-research-effort questions sure

I understand that being a downvote ("you've not done anything to find an answer, or put any thought into this. Don't be a lazy sod.")

true, I have a lot of helpful flags on U&L

@voretaq7 - regarding your example: so what? Delete the downvoted question, write a better question, get an answer.

The downvote says that it is for "unclear" questions (which have a specific close reason) and for "not useful" which sounds an awful lot like "off-topic" to me.

@Lnafziger that's why I dislike the last half of that tooltip :)

3:26 AM

We should start a petition to remove that.

Want to get a bunch of down-votes on meta? Go for it. ;-)

@SteveV. If you stand up in class and ask a question and everyone in the classroom wraps a potato in a dirty sock and smacks you in the face with it are you going to be inclined to think and ask another question, or are you going to go transfer out of that class as soon as you can? :)

downvotes are a pretty rough psychological tool

aviation.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/vote-down is probably a better explanation for when to downvote than the tooltip actually

If i stand up in class and ask a question and five seniors (or one diamond professor) suddenly burst into the room and shout "Nobody answer that! Nobody answer that! We don't answer questions like that in this class!" I'm also not going to be motivated to ask more questions.

Anyway, I didn't mean to "call you out" on that @SteveV., it happens a lot and was just wondering about your though process on it (since it's not the same way that I do things).

@SteveV. Haha, I was just thinking the same thing about closing questions.

@Lnafziger You're all about copying me tonight aren't you? :P

@SteveV. However, they did try to "soften the blow" if you will with the new terminology by saying that it is "on hold" and more or less waiting to be improved (instead of just CLOSED, FINE, KAPUT).

3:32 AM

@SteveV. probably true also

@Lnafziger it doesn't work. If you close a question you're still a nazi baby-eater. Meta Server Fault told me so.

@voretaq7 Haha, just "less" of one!

(at least we've not been accused of being nazis here yet)

My feeling (correct or mistaken) is that if your personal sense of self-worth is that correlated to whether a number on the internet is positive or negative, you will probably have a bad time on the internet no matter where you go.

(we haven't had much of a chance yet though, lol)

@SteveV. Yeah right?

@Lnafziger no offense taken, i didn't think you were calling me out at all

3:35 AM

On the flip side, being a little more liberal with upvotes (on both questions and answers) if they are just "good" and not necessarily "great" is a very good thing on a site in Beta because it gets more people up to the reputation level needed to moderate the site. I saw one meta post saying that we should be using all 30 of our upvotes every day on a Beta site.

@SteveV. Okay, good. :)

@SteveV. Yup. Same goes for having your question closed. If you can't handle "Sorry, but that's not really this site's bailiwick, try asking on one of these other sites instead." or "We're not sure what you're asking, take a few minutes and add more context so it's clear." the internet is not the place for you, Special Snowflake :)

@Lnafziger It's pretty hard to use up 30 votes in a day at our volume. I think I managed it once :)

I guess the simplest way to explain my voting is that I differentiate between
- "Yay, a good question"
- "Oh, a question"
- "That's dumb but it's on topic"
- "That doesnt' belong here"

but I do try to patrol older questions and look for content worth upvoting

or stuff that I can drop a useful comment on

@voretaq7 Yeah, I know. We need to get more questions! (and answers! :) )

or comments that should be scrubbed (what's the point of modlike powers if I never abuse them?)

@Lnafziger I need to spend a few minutes and dig up examples for my "this plane is too damn slow I can barely get into the yellow arc!" antennas/drag question :P

(not that my antennas are really my most significant source of profile drag at the moment -- DAMN YOU ROTATING BEACON!!!)

3:38 AM

@SteveV. So I'm guessing that means:
- +1
- <nothing>
- -1
- <close vote>
?

Yep.

@Lnafziger that's not a bad system

Case in point. Gate allocations. Clicked. Read. Interested. Starred. Upvoted.

I will say I hope we don't start seeing crap like what we see on SF (the "Do My Job For Me" question). The day someone posts a load sheet for a Learjet and asks us to work the weight and balance and tell them if they can legally take off I swear I will be the first person calling the FAA.

I must admit, I considered typing that out right now.

3:42 AM

haha, that question in my mind: Clicked. Read. That's what operations does every day so they are pretty good at it by now (probably a cool computer program that does it). Well written question though. Upvote. Hope someone has a better answer.

(which means, with the way tonight is going, @Lnafziger is halfway through typing it up right now) :]

Lemme go ask this one: "I'm trying to plan a flight from Nice, France to Bangor, Maine and CFMU keeps rejecting my route. Can someone give me the most efficient route between the two that is valid????"

(Trust me, I would have paid for an answer to that one more than once.)

@Lnafziger Outsmarting the *!#@% ATC Computer? :-)

"I failed my checkride on the oral and my instructor is in Mexico. Can someone do ground with me and sign me off? My Skype is...."

2

"No, really, my client wants to circle for 10 minutes over this empty patch of the atlantic to take photos of the waves."

user image

3:46 AM

@voretaq7 Haha, it's FAR worse in Europe. Lots of one way airways and time/altitude restrictions on the airways that you can't even fathom a guess from the chart.

@SteveV. lmao, oh I can't wait!

@Lnafziger Date someone at Eurocontrol - just long enough to get a copy of the central flow management unit's database.

@SteveV. At least you got the accept on the question. ;-)

(maybe longer if they have other attractive qualities, but remember to keep your priorities straight. It's all about efficient routing and outsmarting the *!#@% ATC Computer :-P)

Anyway, I'm off to walk the dog and head to bed.

I noticed that and was confused. Your answer is much more complete. I wonder if he was looking for simple.

g'night @Lnafziger

3:49 AM

Haha, well he asked you for a link to the chart too (which was in my answer) so I don't think that he even read my answer.

(until after he accepted yours)

@Lnafziger users can always move accepts :)

And it blows! I was counting on that rep so that i could downvote more babies!

(or something)

@voretaq7 Yeah, but he's a brand new user. I'm just glad that he got his answer. :)

Anyway, take care!

@SteveV. "This baby is ugly, soiled, or loud. It is not useful."

HAHAHA! Yesss!

3:53 AM

(And this ladies and gentlemen is why I should never father children.)

I think you'd be a really good father.

(says someone you've never met on the internet)

@SteveV. absolutely not. Everything I know about parenting I learned from my lizard.

("Oh look! It's a smaller version of me! I must kill it and eat it before it competes for the food supply!")

Intellectually I know that lizards can probably move and do things, but that doesn't really fit my mental model of them.

Like, in my brain, lizards, dry aquariums, and heat lamps all evolved simultaneously and in concert with each other.

2

7 hours later…

10:52 AM

http://aviationhumor.net/newspaper-highlights/
Aviation Humor
Newspaper Highlights
admin
1391597345

2 hours later…

1:12 PM

@Lnafziger now your comment makes sense

@Lnafziger Are you operating in Europe?

Hi @roe, I've discovered now that you EAD requires you to have any java >= 1.6 update 27 just to enter the first page. I don't know why, because it doesn't seem to load any applet.

But with the latest JAVA plugin I didn't have any problem logging on. Then change to plain HTML and it's ok.

@DeltaLima Yeah I've had it set to plain HTML ever since I registered

Ok, so you can access it now or do you still get stuck when you click "enter applications"

Never had a problem, just have to run it through a windows VM where I have a java plugin.

Its a pain, and I hate them for building a web page that was cool right around the time when the internet was born... :)

1:31 PM

Yeah, I agree. I've send them an email to stop recommending JAVA version 1.6. The update they require has now 166 vulnerabilities, most of them severe.

1:44 PM

@DeltaLima I do once in awhile.

2:07 PM

@Lnafziger The aircraft has to be equipped & certified ADS-B out by 7 December 2017. New aircraft have to be equipped & certified starting 8 January 2015. IIRC you fly the Falcon, so that shouldn't be a problem.

1 hour later…

3:10 PM

This Day in Aviation: 5 February 1958

posted on February 05, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

“The F-86L was the designation given to late-1950s conversions of existing USAF F-86Ds to use the Semi-Automatic Ground Environment (SAGE) datalink system…. Engine: One General Electric J47-GE-33, 5550 lb.st. dry, 7650 lb.st with afterburner. Performance: Maximum speed: 693 mph at sea level, 616 mph at 40,000 feet. Initial climb rate was 12,200 […] The pos…

3:23 PM

This Day in Aviation: 5 February 1962

posted on February 05, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

5 February 1962: A Sikorsky HSS-2 Sea King (later redesignated SH-3A) became the world’s fastest helicopter by establishing a Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI) world speed record for helicopters of 339 kilometers per hour (210.645 miles per hour) over a 19 kilometer (11.8 mile) course between Milford and New Haven, Connecticut. The pilots were Lieutenant Robert Wiley Crafton, […

This Day in Aviation: 5 February 1971, 09:18:11 UTC, T + 108:15:09.30

posted on February 05, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

5 February 1971, 09:18:11 UTC, T + 108:15:09.30: The Apollo 14 Lunar Module Antares (LM-8), with astronauts Alan B. Shepard and Edgar D. Mitchell aboard, landed at the Fra Mauro Highlands, The Moon. This was the third manned lunar landing. It was 9 years, 8 months, 30 days, 18 hours, 43 minutes, 58 seconds since Shepard had lifted […] The post 5 February 1971, 09:18:11 UTC, T + 108:15:09.…

2 hours later…

5:51 PM

@SteveV. you were asking in a flag about link answers, and whether there needs to be a meta post about it. That's already covered in the Help Center: "Links to external resources are encouraged, but please add context around the link so your fellow users will have some idea what it is and why it’s there. Always quote the most relevant part of an important link, in case the target site is unreachable or goes permanently offline."

In this case though, I'm not particularly worried about it because the question already has a good accepted answer which doesn't need to be restated, and adding the "relevant" quotes from that link would be difficult. I considered converting it to a comment on the question, but that has very little up-side, and the possible down-side of discouraging the user.

1 hour later…

7:05 PM

@BretCopeland I would agree that it should be a comment since it technically doesn't answer the question, but is a resource that could be added into the accepted answer.

@DeltaLima Thanks!

@Lnafziger if it was a new question, and that answer was going to clutter things, I would agree, but that's not going to happen here. I think leaving it to the votes is the correct thing here.

Anytime mod action is a grey area, we should lean towards taking no action.

Well, the one thing that it does though is to set an example of what is "acceptable" content and new people (which we will hopefully have a lot of) will thing that it is a normal thing to do. It's not about clutter, but about what kind of content that we want on the site.

And that's the type of answer that I would normally just down-vote with a comment asking them to improve it (but like you said, in this case it would be difficult to "quote the relevant sections", so I think that a comment would be more appropriate than an answer).

@Lnafziger and I think if you want to leave a comment on the answer saying link answers should generally be more than just a link, I think that's fine, but forcefully removing the upvote he/she got and turning it into a comment is going to evoke a negative reaction.

7:24 PM

Nah, I'm not planning on doing anything, just offering my opinion since you were talking about it. :)

7:38 PM

@Lnafziger informative NOTAMs you want? What heresy is this sir? :-)

@voretaq7 oh, yeah @Lnafziger I was wondering about that too. I feel like "see special notices" is basically the FAA's way of saying "you're on your own"

@BretCopeland I assumed that when I pulled the "Special Notices" NOTAMs I'd find at least some of the stuff you dug up in your research (great answer BTW)

Yeah, at least a NOTAM that covers it would be nice!

Instead I got "Oh if you're a foreign diplomatic flight stay the hell away, we think you're all Achmed The Dead Terrorist"

GG FAA. You stay useful.

Maybe the issue is that NOTAMs are FAA things, and the extra requirements are from TSA which the FAA has no control over.

7:43 PM

Yeah, well, the A/FD says to see "Special Notices" for info though.

So maybe the A/FD needs to be updated

@BretCopeland Yeah I think the TSA list is the equivalent of local airport procedures

@Lnafziger the A/FD definitely needs to be updated (if only to say SPECIAL TSA REQUIREMENTS APPLY)

@voretaq7 maybe we should send a message to the FAA saying the A/FD should be updated.

there's apparently a form for this

it seems only mildly convoluted and annoying

-1

Q: how can I set up an email server in ubuntu 10.04

i have postfix installed on my pc and need to create an email server for 1 bilion people. iam currently following this:postfix And how can I generate the the insecure key, without having to shuffle the key names as done in the link above.(the command to put in terminal)

Yeah you don't need to email a third of the entire world's population of Internet users, especially not from your home computer, and especially not on a single Ubuntu 10.04 server. — ceejayoz 7 mins ago

I really have nothing to add beyond that comment :)

7:54 PM

hahah

exactly

he's a friend of mine and the only reason i ever look at SF

well, maybe "You f$%@ing spammer!"

Haha, great question

8:10 PM

So the FAA finally issued a NOTAM covering that approach plate mis-print.

Well, I guess that 24 days isn't that bad, especially with the holidays (especially since it's been that way for years apparently).

@Lnafziger not bad for government help

I'm actually kinda surprised they issued the NOTAM rather than just fixing the chart in the next cycle since it's such an old error :)

that seems pretty decent

i'm honestly shocked it's not been reported before

it's an obvious error imo

@egid So am I

Most people probably just look at it and "mis-interpret" it the way that it was intended.

then again most GA pilots seem to be completely baffled by HILO PTs

There was even a nice debate when the question was asked about whether or not it was an error, lol.

8:14 PM

yeah i got a kick out of that

@egid It makes sense on the Jepp chart :)

heh yeah

well, Jepp continues to have some readability wins over naco

even with the addition of a briefing strip™ to the government format

Yeah, but it isn't as big of a difference since the government copied Jepp's briefing strip.

the bottom half of Jepp plates is miles better

I'm surprised that there wasn't a lawsuit over that

8:16 PM

yeah

minimums / IDing the FAF / descent rate vs GS are all way way better on Jepp

@egid Absolutely, and the fact that they include things that the government makes you refer to tables elsewhere in the book for instead of having it right there on the plate.

i only switched back to NACO because of Foreflight

right

@egid You had a Jepp subscription?

Naco is trying to save ink or cpu cycles or something

yeah, i had the NW region pack for a few years as a CFI

i did mostly instrument training the last two years, it was worth every penny

@egid I think it's just that changing the format requires changing the software that generates the charts, which is probably older than god.

8:17 PM

I read a regional jepp sub when I was instructing also

Oh, and the visibility minimums are calculated for you in accordance with OpSpecs on the Jeep airport diagram.

@egid Well, you can use the Jepp iPad app now.

then again, my one really, really bad close call was exacerbated by my Jepp charts :)

i made a bad go/no-go decision flying our grumman down to Oregon in the fall

@Lnafziger Foreflight still beats the Jepp app by miles even if it means I have to use the ugly ass NACO charts and plates :-)

spent way longer in weather than I intended to, got disoriented (no AP, twitchy two-seat Grumman) and wound up asking for vectors to the nearest ILS

@voretaq7 It does, but it still has Jepp's and at least you can have them on the iPad now. :)

8:20 PM

my wife was in the right seat half asleep and i sort of crazily asked her to find Hillsboro (KHIO) which was the closest airport

because i couldn't find it for the life of me

and i was having a hard enough time keeping the dirty side down

@egid I've only got about 0.5 hours in a Grumman - I wouldn't want to fly a long VFR cross country in that thing without an autopilot, forget IFR!

"Oh, you sneezed! That means aileron roll!"

she finally got it, but not before I had approach give me the ILS freq and inbound course... turns out in Jepp-land, Hillsboro is "Portland-Hillsboro Airport"

@egid Sounds like fun....

gotta love those airports

it was the single most stressful flight I have ever flown

8:21 PM

try finding KBDL in the jepps :)

Yeah, sometimes they can be hard to find.

But it's a lot easier on the iPad, lol.

I got to parking and just sat on the ground without opening the canopy staring straight ahead for about 15 minutes

@voretaq7 it's not bad, honestly, for VFR... my dad and I flew KPAE-KOSH-KPAE last year and it was great fun

but IFR it's awful. I now basically fly it IFR hood only. it's a great IFR trainer, but a terrible IFR platform.

@Lnafziger Indeed. Hell sometimes the NACO stuff is hard to search but the iPad makes it easy: Go to maps. Pan over to the general area. Tap on the airport. Tap on "More Info"

@voretaq7 even easier: ownship -> tap on airport

@casey lemme guess, Windsor Locks

Or type in the airport code (who would have ever thought to sort the paper jepps that way?? We are pilots after all and should know the *@## code!)

8:24 PM

@egid I'm feeling kinda the same way about the cherokee - I doubt I'd fly in hard IMC unless I really had to. Then again for me the instrument rating is more "Cut my insurance in half, and make it so I can climb over the occasional summer cloud layer and actually go places"

@Lnafziger yeah, that's honestly what almost did me in. I could get the GPS done immediately

@casey Yeah, doesn't bradley have like three names?

@Lnafziger Seriously, why aren't the charts in code order?!

@voretaq7 IATA or ICAO? :P

@voretaq7 Good question. Ask it and see if we can get a Jepp representative to answer that one, lol.

8:25 PM

@egid I had that reaction when I got back to my home airport from my private checkride. I had calculated earlier that I could do the whole round trip on one tank and didnt give it a second thought as I was on cloud 9 after passing the ride. About the time I saw my home airport I started totaling how much time I actually spent on the ride and realized I was a lot lower on fuel than I thought. Got a bit worried that I was going to have a fuel exhaustion incident on my first flight....

@egid yea, windsor locks/bradley/hartford

"Dear Jeppesen. I have one question: WTF?"

@casey heh, fun.

i wonder what percentage of pilots fly out to their checkride

@egid Neither. We'll make up our own coding scheme. With diamonds! and Horseshoes!

that'd be an interesting statistic

@egid around here a little over half

8:26 PM

I did! But aside from the other pilots at my FBO when I was training, @casey is the first person I'm aware of that did that.

@voretaq7 huh.

that's quite high

the DE most of us fly with lives closer to Islip than Republic so most of the students at Republic get endorsed to fly into Islip

(most students had that endorsement anyway because Republic charges $2.50 per landing and Islip used to not charge at all for light GA)

When I instructed out of Manassas, VA only 1 examiner would come to us, we flew to the others. When I instructed in TX, we had one on field we regularly used so no flying

yeah, when I was teaching we had a guy who was basically on the field.

he was technically at KAWO but it was a 20 minute drive for him either way

And that flight from Manasas to Gaithersburg, MD... it was .2 if you could go east of IAD between that and the FRZ and it was 1.0 or more if they sent you around the B to the west

sounds like good XC flight padding ;)

I freely admit that when I was still trying to hit ATP cross country minimums I would just do a crapload of touch and goes on return to my home airport after landing out

8:29 PM

@Lnafziger "Dear Louis, Because GyroKittens on Toast."

augh damn you java why is this email empty

dammit, jim, i'm a front end developer, not a gremlin

@egid Cheater :-P)

@egid Java brings its own gremlins.

Imported from Germany

@voretaq7 proudly. i perversely love the regs because of things like that.

@egid something something stop-and-go landings something something "hey I'm current on paper!"

you may be confusing currency with proficiency ;P

8:32 PM

@egid <FoghornLeghorn>Regs don't say nothin' bout pro-fish in-sea son!</FoghornLeghorn>

though I do wonder at the magic number "3" which seems to show up so often for currency

it's a prime number

Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times ~~is enemy action~~ he's probably proficient?

google.com/…

no one gets lucky three times trying to land :)

@casey Three is also the magic number of failed approaches according to my CFI (if you don't make it on the third try you're apparently WAY more likely to screw up and wind up a twisted pile on the runway on attempt #4?)

@egid Two is the difficult prime. Seven is the arbitrary prime...

8:35 PM

proficiency... that word always reminds of when I was a green captain and I got paired with an FO who was in the top 50 on the seniority list and just never wanted to upgrade and flew as little as possible.

does that make 3 the "proficient prime"? :)

That was the trip I learned that the 170 kt limitation on the wipers wasn't a hard limit of the aircraft...

@casey . . . Guy didn't like money? or was the pay scale straight seniority and not position+seniority?

@casey A good engineer always leaves a conservative buffer.

it was position and years of service, and the FO scale reached diminishing returns a long time ago for him. after flying with him though I figured out why he didnt upgrade, I doubt he'd have made it through

@voretaq7 yea, I just don't like to be the one testing at what airspeed the wipers will actually fail or separate from the aircraft :)

especially when the FO conducts the test without discussing it with me first!

yes I can see how that might be an issue....

8:38 PM

afterwords he told me it was OK, he hits that switch by accident regularly and its never been a problem...

nevermind none of the flows took your hand near that knob

"wait, what are flows?"

@casey Hopefully it wasn't on a three engine airplane... The wiper can really get into the wrong place in that case.

@Lnafziger thankfully (for him), just two engines

@egid if I head that in the airplane I would have flown down the training center and found the instructor and OE captain that signed him off :)

:)

Speaking of magic numbers I was looking for Piper SB 886 about Cherokee wing spar fatigue cycles (the one that requires you to magnaflux the spar). Aircraft in "normal service" are supposed to have that done at 65,535 hours or something ridiculous.

@egid "I use my feet. These size 12s hit all kinds of shit on the panel. Why are all the knobs so close together?!"

8:44 PM

INTMAX-1 hours of service

@casey yup.

thats funny

oh that totally makes sense. it's 97.522321429 weeks of continuous usage!

all of the magic numbers in our book for the EMB-145 were off, because the real magic numbers were all in SI units and then translated to imperial

Lawyer: "well how long should it go if they DON'T abuse the crap out of the airframe at 300 feet AGL bouncing around doing pipeline patrol?"
Engineer: "How the F&*$ should we know? Damn thing should last forever!"
Lawyer: "We can't say forever."
Engineer: "Fine. What's the biggest number this computer can spit out. Put that in the box and tell the lawyer to sod off!"

8:48 PM

@voretaq7 That SB is epic!

@voretaq7 I wonder if it is because that's the most that their computer system can track and they have a "cycles since last inspection" field or something.

maybe it's the smallest big number the FAA would allow

i mean, that's like 65 years of flying 20 hours a week

at which point, yeah, probably oughta take a peek at that there spar

@Lnafziger I know, and I can't find the frakin' PDF because some retarded crack-addled howler monkey at Piper mucked with the damn SB search and now it sucks.

(you used to be able to pull a list of every SB they ever published and click on them to get the PDF. Now you get this: piper.com/technical-publications-documents and the list of what you can download is woefully incomplete)

@egid How's whoever owns the Grumman type certificate about access to SBs?

(is it still American Aviation?)

technically Tiger Aircraft owns the tc

and they are out of business

i guess True Flight LLC owns the aa-* TCs actually

trueflightaerospace.com

apparently they were at AirVenture last year

would've been interesting to talk at them, wish I'd known that

9:07 PM

@egid tell them to buy some honeycomb panel and epoxy and start building airframes again? :)

basically ;|

actually that they should be focusing on increasing useful load to make up for the G1000 addition

@egid you know what a pain in the ass that is? The Warrior STC (that's literally just changing a page out of the POH) took forever to get approved :P

no, i know

The AA1s have a really low gross weight though I'm not sure what's up with that

but the thing is, they've done it with earlier models

@voretaq7 AA1s have laminated fiberglass main landing gear and relatively thin tube spars

the AA-1C upped the strength on both

and gained i think 100 lbs MGW

9:11 PM

@egid I'd be concerned about the spars. Gear can always be swapped :)

our engine+fuel STC added 79 lbs, but a lot of that got eaten up by the larger engine

the spars are strong being tube spars, but apparently the higher gross weight required even sturdier spars

the equivalent STC for an AA-1C: MTOW 1684

ours is 1579

What bugs me is I'm aerodynamically certain that my plane could haul 2450lbs (same as the -181), but I'm limited to 2400 per the TC. (Of course I also weigh about 200lbs less than the typical Warrior/Archer...)

@egid thicker walls I'm guessing

i want to dump half our radios for newer tech :(

I want to get rid of my entire avionics stack at some point

narco 12d is like 6 lbs on its own

no harness or anything

9:14 PM

well actually I want to keep one of the Narcos and the IDME-891

but I have to get the 891 looked at because it's starting to have "calibration issues" with the VOR half

(I think the resistor for the OBS is fucked)

@egid you starting to plan your ADS-B Out upgrades yet?

ehhhhh no not really

:|

there's a chance we won't own by then anyway

King KT 74 will probably be my new transponder

(since I want to move the current one anyway I may as well replace its ass now)

weird, KT-74 is heavier than our old Narco AT150

way lower amperage though

everything on, the AT150 draws like 2 amps

yeah I noticed that too it's like a half pound heavier

at least

9:19 PM

@egid Cavity tubes are power hungry beasts :-/

@egid The garmin (330ES) is even heavier - almost 2kg (4.2lb)

yikes

i guess only a grumman owner would be that terrified of avionics weight but hey

2 pounds is 2 pounds

nope, i'm not thrilled about it either :-{

not so much the weight but the balance

yeah, we had to move our battery box to the tail with the new engine

I'm losing about 2lb off the tail when I replace the actually-rotating-rotating-beacon, and my wingtips add a little but not really far enough back to offset that

and one of the CFIs I fly with semi-regularly is a bigger guy - with full fuel we're well inside the weight limit but right barely inside of the forward CG line.

(and seeing as how this plane has NEVER been weighed those numbers might change after all the paint is done)

yeah our STC work included a trip to the scales

9:23 PM

I'm actually happy my new towbar weighs 1lb more than the old one. Strap it to the back bulkhead of the baggage compartment :-P

I was debating weighing the plane when the avionics shop did my audio panel (because they pulled like 3lb of dead wires and zipties out of there)

dropbox.com/sc/0a7a3lb3sl7e53v/90toEkJvmX (two sob, full fuel, standard baggage load)

but it makes more sense to do it after paint and all the crap I'm going to be doing with new fairings and lighting

i have no idea why they bothered with the jog way up front of the envelope

you'd have to strip the entire thing and be on your own with half tanks

user image

I don't know why they bother with a Utility envelope. You're not supposed to spin the damn thing anyway.

if I replace my nose strut that bend in the green line goes away

but I think that adds another 2lb right on the nose. ::shakes fist::

1

Q: What do Ryanair do without Sick Bags?

Sorry for the slightly strange question, but Ryanair, Europe's Largest LLC (Low Cost Carrier) decided that seat back pockets took too much effort and got rid of them, and it appears the sick bags in the process. So the question comes up... What happens when Ryanair flights encounter turbulenc...

commercial-aviation

awesome

9:30 PM

lol, geez....

Oh Ryanair

I'm sure you've all seen that before?

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