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3:35 AM
@Farhan Universal Features Syndicate - the newspaper comic consortium. I think they distribute Far Side :)
 
 
4 hours later…
7:50 AM
@DanHulme a good start!
@voretaq7 I think you nailed it with your last comment, I get the feeling he's never seen a VOR receiver. :)
 
 
8 hours later…
4:18 PM
@falstro mumble mumble Children of the Magenta :)
 
4:44 PM
@voretaq7 I love flying with GPS as a backup, but there's something about watching the VOR needle dead in the center that puts a big smile on my face. :) Even better if it's tuned to a localizer.
 
I like the airspace awareness that comes from a moving map, but it's much easier (and IMHO more precise) to fly CDI needles than to try to track a (relatively) fat magenta line.
 
@voretaq7 I built my own app for moving map, I can switch it over to a HSI at the flick of a button. And I often do, at lot less clutter for the quick glance.
 
I was | |<-- that close to installing a vacuum-driven HSI when we replaced my DG
but that wouldn't be useful until I swap out Nav2 and they're hideously expensive so I punted and just got a DG with a heading bug.
 
5:14 PM
@voretaq7 so...about full deflection? ;)
 
@falstro 3 dots :)
it actually got serious consideration before I said "Dude, you're not installing a new nav system for at least another year, what are you smoking?!"
 
5:32 PM
Heh, cute:
6
Q: What happens when a pilot has no Instrument Rating and visibility drops?

Jon StoryNote: I'm not a pilot, so I don't have much basic knowledge of how the pilot licence ratings work If a pilot doesn't have an Instrument Rating, and the weather conditions drop below VMC; what do they do? Presumably you can't instantly land, but nor can you safely continue to fly without suffici...

"Im no pilot, but I would totally be able to fly IMC"
 
unless you can fully rely on the instruments that is a lie
 
i couldn't help myself
@JonStory looking at one instrument on its own is easy. Looking at 6 instruments at once is a bit more work. Crosschecking that they all agree to identify a failed instrument is yet more work. Ignoring the kinematic sensations your brain tells you that conflict with what the instruments are telling you is probably the hardest part. Doing all of this while remembering to fly is more work. Doing all of this while navigating is still more work. Doing all of this while talking to ATC, more work. Doing all of this while briefing and flying an approach, lots of work. Hope you brought charts. — casey 1 min ago
 
6:03 PM
@casey :) Granted, that's flying IFR, not inadvertent IMC
but I guess we've all been there, in the "how hard can it be?"-phase. I know I have. I kept telling myself that objectively speaking I'm probably wrong and actually can't, but you really need one of those events that catch you by surprise to let you actually know that you can't.
 
I did a lot of instrument training as a CFII (in twins no less), I've seen plenty of "how hard can it be?" turn into "ok, yea, that can be hard" :)
only had one student not follow through with it. His dad was a united captain and was really pressuring his kid to follow his path.
and the kid didn't really want to
oh the conversation I had to have with my boss after his dad called in....
 
@casey how so?
 
the kid didn't have the motivation to do the training. We (myself and other instructors) had the "if this isn't something you really want to do..." conversation and he did a few more flights and quit. His dad refused to interpret the situation any other way than we sucked as instructors (and the kid probably told his dad that to avoid saying he quit).
so the boss wanted to know what the hell was going on
 
@casey did he accept your version of the story?
 
@falstro he did, he was just doing his due diligence
 
6:32 PM
nice
@casey how's your research coming along?
 
6:48 PM
Question for the regulars: I learned to fly and I've always flown in Europe (Belgium) but I have a lot of (stupid) questions on differences between Europe and the U.S. I could ask an instructor here but I prefer multiple opinions (because there are). Are those (stupid) questions on-topic at Aviation SE ?
 
@PhilippeLeybaert Why would they be stupid? As long as they're factual and not opinion-based then they would be very valuable questions. If they are about opinions then chat is probably better. If you're not sure, just ask and see how people respond :-)
 
@PhilippeLeybaert I'd say differences are on topic, any special kind of stupid you're referring to? :)
 
The questions I have may seem so utterly obvious to U.S. pilots, that they may come across as stupid
 
@falstro slowly :) I presented 2 weeks ago at a conference.
 
@casey Cool, how'd it go?
 
6:52 PM
@falstro no "best student presentation" awards but I think it went we'll
I did my normal "talking way too fast" thing and got a good question I was well prepared to answer.
 
@PhilippeLeybaert Well, you could probably say the same thing to some US questions about flying in Europe :-) As they say, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers
 
For example, in Europe when you file a flight plan (VFR), you always get a full (IFR-like) clearance before you take off. That doesn't seem the case in the U.S.
Those things are hard to find in the "book" as it is considered "common knowledge" among pilots
 
@PhilippeLeybaert yep, our VFR plans are make-believe. Well, they are real but only the FSS knows they exist, not ATC. The exception are D-VFR flight plans which ATC does know about.
 
@PhilippeLeybaert Yes, that's correct: no flight plan is required for VFR in the US although it's recommended. But Canada is different: all VFR flights over 25nm (?) require a plan.
 
We have "flight following" which is more like VFR with IFR-like interaction with ATC without all of the rules that go with IFR
 
6:55 PM
@Pondlife but do you get a full clearance before departure?
 
personally I never filed a VFR plan, but always got flight following
 
@PhilippeLeybaert I've filed several VFR flight plans in Germany/Austria never given a clearance.
 
@falstro: the rule in Belgium is: you need a clearance when you intend to fly through non-CTR airspace
 
@PhilippeLeybaert No, unless you're departing from a controlled airport, of course
 
which is almost everywhere above 4500 feet
 
6:57 PM
in the US you only need a specific clearance in class B airspace, which are the "upside-down wedding cake" shaped things over the really busy airports
 
And note casey's comment: VFR flight plans in the US are for search and rescue only. ATC doesn't know or care if you have one.
 
@PhilippeLeybaert ah, you mean D, C, B or A airspace, sure, you need a clearance for that here as well
you're not given any clearance on departure though
you still have to pick up the actual clearance enroute.
 
@falstro in Belgium you need the clearance before you take off (from a towered airport that is). I find that a lot easier than requesting a clearance in the air
I guess flight following is the better choice in the U.S. (although I once asked for FF in Florida and was denied)
 
yea, FF is only available if the controller workload allows it
 
@PhilippeLeybaert in germany, you get a clearance to the edge of the control zone by the tower, after that you're on your own and have to pick it up from the next radar facility to get a clearance into the next D or C.
 
7:00 PM
of course, I always prodded if denied
"houston approach, censsa 12345, flight following request"
 
@casey prodded? (sorry, I'm not a native English speaker)
 
"cessna 12345, houston aprroach, unable, remain clear of class B airspace"
"houston approach, censsa 12345, request IFR to XYZ"
 
@PhilippeLeybaert prodded = pushed
 
@PhilippeLeybaert prod normally means poke
 
@falstro In Belgium you are handed over to the next facility, even VFR. Very easy
 
7:02 PM
in this case, it means @casey wanted to push their buttons and asked for IFR ;)
 
or If i didn't really want an IFR but just to transit the class B my response was
"houston approach, cessna 12345, roger, advise I'll be practicing holds over <ARRIVAL FIX outside the B airsapce> at 9500 ft"
 
@casey lol
 
"cessna 12345, houston approach, cleared into class B, maintain VFR at 5500 ft squawk 4123"
@falstro in the US you don't need clearances in class C or D but if you are VFR down low enough to be in that airspace you'll have to do the same thing. you'll have radar services terminated exiting C and you'll have to call up the next C or D facility yourself
flight following will coordinate those handoffs and give you to the center between surface facilities
 
@casey I know, just wanted to point out that it was not a universal european thing.
 
@casey problem is that they can terminate radar service any time they want. That's why I want to get my IR asap :)
 
7:09 PM
@PhilippeLeybaert true
plus an instrument clearance means you don't have to worry about cloud clearances
 
@PhilippeLeybaert to get back to the VFR flight plan, the main point of a VFR flight plan is to trigger search and rescue if you fail to report
 
This is the airspace environment where I did most of my flying: peter2000.co.uk/aviation/edcp/vfrchart2.jpg
Needless to say, complex class B airspace in the U.S. doesn't intimidate me ;)
@casey does it make sense to file IFR for every trip, even in perfect VMC, just to make your flight less stressful?
 
@PhilippeLeybaert i might not be the best to ask. The vast majority of my experience is in a part 121 cockpit (always IFR with the rare exception when we could cancel early before going into a non-towered airport)
in small planes I always went with FF but I knew the facilities and where I would and wouldnt get handoff service
 
@PhilippeLeybaert I always file IFR when I'm going somewhere specific, even in VMC. It's good practice and it avoids any airspace complications (if that's a concern). I don't know if it makes it less stressful, though :-)
 
7:25 PM
Thanks guys. very useful information. Guess I don't have to ask the question on the site :-)
 
@PhilippeLeybaert Nothing is obvious about FAA regulations. But they have lots of lawyers to explain to you why breathing is grounds to have your certificate yanked :)
 
@voretaq7 you can complain all you want. I still take the FAA over the LBA any day
 
@voretaq7 91.13 :)
 
@casey The FAA's favorite regulation :)
@falstro Actually all my dealings with the FAA have been pleasant. If you're not a screwup or an asshat they actually go out of their way to be helpful.
 
7:42 PM
exactly
 
@voretaq7 they've made themselves so helpful I don't even deal with them anymore. I can submit my CFI renewals via IACRA and never interact with an FAA employee at all
in fact, I don't even have to interact with any person
just my computer
 
As all government bureaucracies should be!
 
now if only the TSA were that way...
 
8:08 PM
@casey ah, the TSA. The definition of high caliber individuals ;)
 
8:57 PM
@Lnafziger Do you know offhand if JFK or LGA has relaxed the "no private vehicles airside" rule? I haven't really kept up since the chances of my needing to drive out onto the ramp at either of those airports is effectively nil :)
 
9:21 PM
I'd be surprised if they let you airside without a SIDA badge
even San Antonio (SAT) requires that BS
just to walk airside! on the GA ramp! across the field from the terminal
 
@casey I guess that would be directive SD-8G: nbaa.org/ops/security/airport-badges
"Due to the sensitive nature of the information included in the directive, the TSA has not made the full content of the document widely available." So you must comply, but we're not telling you with what...
 
Yeah, last I heard the policy was no private vehicles and authorized escorts for pedestrians airside at JFK. (At Islip they'll let you drive onto the GA ramp with an escort, but that's probably because the GA ramp is waaaaaay the hell away from the commercial terminal)
@Pondlife Welcome to America. Secret laws are the new black. As in black bar. As in redacted. As in you're under arrest for [REDACTED].
 
@voretaq7 I read an interesting article about the TSA searching a GA pilot before he took off. With several (legal) firearms, camping supplies etc. for his backcountry trip...
Don't the TSA guys themselves ever get struck by the pointlessness of it all?
 
Yeahhhh, my general policy on that is if you want to search me, my passengers, or my aircraft you better be serving me with a warrant (or be prepared to explain your probable cause to the local constabulary).
I'm pretty easygoing about most things, but literally THE reason I spent the time and money on a private pilot license and an airplane is so I could travel at least regionally without having to deal with that crap. (It's just a bonus that it's also fun :)
 
Unfortunately, there's a massive imbalance of power: they can make your life a lot harder than you can make theirs. They don't have to pay any lawyer fees, for a start, whether they're right or wrong.
 
9:38 PM
@Pondlife Retainer for at least one of the lawyers I could rely on in such a situation is "I let her drink my scotch", so I've got that going for me - but yes, they can make me far more miserable than I can make them.
Then again the existence of some of this crap makes my life pretty miserable to begin with, so if I'm going to be inconvenienced I may as well do it on my terms and make sure the letter of the law is being given at least casual lip service.
 
@voretaq7 I hope it's good Scotch :) I travel a lot internationally and I'm not a US citizen so I'm hoping to avoid picking a fight with the DHS
 
9:57 PM
Ready for another stupid question?
Just heard someone requesting to transition AUS class C airspace but was told to stand by. Isn't it a lot easier to just fly over the airspace without bothering Austin approach? (for example at 5,000 ft because the ceiling off class C is 4,500 at AUS). His destination was 100 nm away so he had no reason to stay low.
 
@PhilippeLeybaert Sure :-)
@PhilippeLeybaert Yes, he could have flown right over it like you said. And class C doesn't require a clearance, if the controller acknowleged his callsign he was allowing him to enter.
From the AIM: "If the controller responds to a radio call with, "(aircraft callsign) standby,"radio communications have been established and the pilot can enter the Class C airspace."
 
The controller was clever enough to say "station calling Austin approach", please stand by
 
@PhilippeLeybaert Mixed bag (especially if there's a headwind as they climb)
 
It seems odd that he wanted to transition when the ceiling of class C was only 4,500
 
@PhilippeLeybaert OK, then in that case the pilot has to remain clear, but of course he could have climbed over the airspace as you said
 
10:02 PM
but personally if they had 100NM to go and there's no headwind? Climb over it and try to get flight following (or at least listen to the frequency) as a courtesy.
For some reason there are a lot of pilots (and instructors) who are afraid of heights.
 
Another possibility is that the pilot was on his way to KEDC or another location close to or under the class C and going through would be easier
 
he was headed for San Antonio
 
One of the instructors my friend flies with actually said "these training planes don't much like climbing above 3000-4000 feet" - that got some interesting glances since he's flown with me and I'll routinely haul the Cherokee up to 7,500-8,500 on longer trips.
 
Or, since he was VFR it's possible that the cloud bases were too low to go over
 
clear blue skies here :-)
But that's indeed a valid reason
 
10:08 PM
OK, then I'm out of ideas :-)
 
I just thought that there's some rule in FAA-land that disallowed flying overhead without contacting approach.
Wanted to make sure
 
No, none at all. It's considered a good idea to at least monitor the frequency but there's no requirement to do it.
 
11:07 PM
@voretaq7 Last time that I was at LGA, we couldn't drive on the ramp.
 
@Lnafziger I'm sure that's just an insurance/liability thing - probably potholes there big enough to swallow an MD-80 :)
 
lol, yeah right?
Well, with where GA parks at LGA it would be impossible to stop someone who decided to go play with an airliner that was taxiing by.
 
@Lnafziger yeah but they have that nice WPA mural in the GA terminal :)
(which is why you occasionally have a bunch of art-history students descend on the northwest side of LGA to blather on about it)
 

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