The Hangar - 2014-01-20

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12:00 AM

haha, yeah. i'm doing some research for the heat angle, and that's the first link that popped up for my query

i just realized that i've never seen a choke diagrammed in aviation carburetors

ah, aircraft engines mostly use updraft carbs

12:38 AM

@egid Good question.

12:54 AM

@Lnafziger thanks!

i'm assuming that most aviation carbs do have a choke, but that it isn't the automotive butterfly style

or something to that effect

Yeah, I don't have any idea on that one, lol.

10 hours later…

11:04 AM

This Day in Aviation: 20 January 1930

posted on January 20, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

20 January 1930: Colonel Edwin E. Aldrin, Jr., Sc.D., United States Air Force (Retired), was born at Glen Ridge, New Jersey. After high school, he turned down a full scholarship to attend the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (M.I.T.) and instead went to the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, graduating in 1951. He accepted a […] The post 20 January 1930 appeared …

11:17 AM

This Day in Aviation: 20 January 1932

posted on January 20, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

20 January 1932: Imperial Airways’ Handley Page HP.42, G-AAXF, named Helena, departed Croydon Aerodrome, South London, England, on the first leg of the airline’s new transcontinental mail service to South Africa. The flights would leave Croydon at 12:30 p.m. on Wednesday and arrive at Cape Town on Friday, ten days later. The route was London, Cairo, Khartoum, Juba, […] The pos…

12:13 PM

@egid The Rotax engines use a choke for cold starts. Runs on unleaded autogas too. But i suppose it has some other tricks as well, for example, it has no mixture and somehow manages that automatically (or so I've been told)

3 hours later…

2:55 PM

@roe They have altitude compensating carburetors in them.

yeah, something like that

don't know how they work.. maybe I'll post that as a question. :)

Yeah, I searched a little (I was told that they have an aneroid which adjusts it based on altitude when I flew a Katana years ago, but I haven't been able to verify that.)

3:26 PM

Found something for ya. :)

@Lnafziger Cool thanks :)

3:46 PM

No problem.

1 hour later…

5:02 PM

@roe yeah I actually saw that in my googles but felt leaving it out made the question a bit clearer :)

At least some Rotax versions seem to have dual carbs too

5:16 PM

@egid Rotax does all sorts of interesting things with their engines

they do indeed

(and I can't make fun of them because 4GPH fuel burn!)

too bad they're not getting much traction in the US

@voretaq7 how about a 3GPH? ;)

@roe I think a lot of that has to do with them being geared engines which freaks a lot of mechanics out

@roe stop taunting me with your miserly fuel burn!

I loved the Katana

5:17 PM

@voretaq7 ;) yeah, 3.9, but it's still a 3! ;)

@Lnafziger I still fly it regularly

Hey, I get about the same numbers.... just in the reverse order :P

you need that kind of fuel burn to be able to finance a hobby like this over here...

The castering nose-wheel is a bit odd though....

@Lnafziger @egid deals with one of those on a regular basis :)

Oh, and the over-temp warning disc in between the seats.... That's kind of scary actually.

5:18 PM

I feel like they've made pretty good inroads in the states considering how stupid expensive new airplanes are

@Lnafziger not tying the nosewheel to the rudder-pedals has the benefit of allowing you to actually test the movement of the rudder before starting to move.. :)

I looooove cantering nose wheels

Yay autocorrect

@roe So do bungees. :)

6

Q: Does a Second In Command have to be landing and instrument current like a Pilot In Command does?

When flying an airplane that requires more than one crew member, does the SIC need to be landing current and instrument current, or is this a requirement only for the PIC? Does it matter which regulations that you are operating under (Part 91, 121, or 135)?

faa-regulations currency sic

@egid If I could re-engine with a rotax legally I'd do it at overhaul - they're (generally) good engines. The whole "burp the engine before checking the oil level" thing you have to do on some of them freaks me out though

I fly a DA40 occasionally but I've never flown a DA20. On my list though.

5:20 PM

Is it really that hard? I even offered a bounty since it is a more involved answer, lol.

Since there's not much out there talking about SIC rules yeah I guess so :P

@voretaq7 I didn't realize they made anything powerful enough for a cherokee

It's also why I asked it I guess. I figured people would jump on the 50 rep though.

@Lnafziger Hmm, how so?

@roe By allowing you to move the rudder without moving the nose-wheel (they just stretch).

@egid I don't think they do yet - but you could get more horsepower out of those engines if they gave up the "runs on autogas" bit :)

5:23 PM

@voretaq7 yeah, turning the prop by hand waiting for that blubbering noise is 1) hard work, and 2) frickin scary, I always double check that the mags are off before touching that thing.. :)

@Lnafziger oh I see, don't know enough about that.

@roe "Just don't wrap your fingers around the blade" :-)

@voretaq7 how about, dont stick your head in there trying to leverage your body weight... :)

@roe "What's the worst that can happen?" -- Um, you could be decapitated and then the shop is going to have to dress the prop to get the nicks out of the edge that chopped your head off?

Minor details....

"Observe proper propeller safety procedures. Don't make more work for the mechanics. They're busy enough."

5:28 PM

@egid do the DA20s in the US ever come with a constant speed prop? I've seen a couple on youtube and they all seemed to have a fixed pitch one.

5:40 PM

@Lnafziger [regarding crash landing counting towards currency](http://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/1169/can-a-crash-landing-be-used-for-far-61-57-currency?noredirect=1#comment1811_1169) yeah, I know, you didn't mention why it would end up in a tree (engine failure, structural failure, reeeeeaaaallly fast growing trees, etc), i just noticed that the discussion got skewed towards talking about the problems you'd have instead of whether it counts as a landing or not.
Having the landing gear collapse is technically just as much a crash as a putting it in a tree (or maybe it isn't?), but…

now what did I do wrong with the link? :P

Wait, which direction do you pull the prop on a Rotax?

on cold days I often pull the prop through by hand, backwards

never ever backwards

whaaaaat

okay, yeah, that is terrifying

The link has to be on it's own message

@egid I have a certified rotax ... repair .. guy .. :) at my local field, he's made it very clear that you may never ever turn a rotax engine backwards.

5:53 PM

interesting. he say why?

@roe And I wrote the answer the way that I did because of the last sentence of his question (which asks about whether or not he can still fly after the accident)

@Lnafziger only to have it get special treatment right? I only wanted to do a [link-text](url) link, that didn't seem to work

@Lnafziger oh, yeah, I didn't mean to say there was anything wrong with either question or answer, just that people jumped on the fact that wrecking the plane completely is going to give you more to think about than currency, and merely suggested using a different example to clarify.

@egid no details, only that there's a very real risk of damage.

@roe Oh, you forgot the opening bracket

@Lnafziger humm, no, it's right there, right at the start? maybe the link text is too long?

@egid By the way, it's apparently called "Heavy Maintenance Partner" (not "certified repair guy", imagine that).. don't know what the "heavy maintenance" implies in terms of qualifications, but he seems to know what he's doing. :)

hahahah

is he thin, by any chance? :)

nice fuel system question btw

I wish I could find a more authoritative source than f-15e.info

I'll keep poking around

6:09 PM

@roe Hmm, good question

Does this work: Wikipedia

yes

might be the hash?

@egid Thanks! One question, what does 'baffled' mean in this context?

@roe What about now

hrmm

odd

baffles are a way to prevent fuel slosh while allowing it to flow

@Lnafziger yeah, I've used it before too

6:10 PM

i'll get a link in there

@roe Baffles are basically metal plates with holes in them... It keeps fuel "calmer" by not being able to create waves and all run to one side, but still allows it to flow through the holes (more slowly).

user image

baffles are the bits with square holes

so it sounds like, in the case of the F-15, inverted flight is possible for what is perhaps a non-infinite period of time :)

I'm baffled about baffles.

they are quite baffling

5

Q: To a pilot, does turbocharging differ from supercharging?

When it comes to operating an aircraft, what are the practical differences between a turbocharged engine and a supercharged engine? I'm aware of the mechanics - turbochargers being exhaust-driven, while superchargers are mechanically driven - so I'm looking for the differences in how pilots need ...

piston-engine turbocharged supercharged forced-induction

still not really happy with either answer :(

Skip's is close but doesn't really talk about the maintenance side

i imagine superchargers require more as they're mechanical but I can't find any info

6:37 PM

!!taf KPAE

Otto the Autopilot

TAF KPAE 201731Z 2018/2118 01004KT 1/2SM FG OVC001
  TEMPO 2018/2022 1/4SM FG VV001
 FM202200 01005KT 2SM BR OVC003
 FM210600 VRB04KT 1/2SM FG OVC001

blergh

yesterday was forecasting VFR after noon, this is pretty lame

!!taf KDCA

Otto the Autopilot

TAF KDCA 201733Z 2018/2118 26012G20KT P6SM FEW200
 FM202300 30009KT P6SM SCT200
 FM210300 33005KT P6SM SCT200
 FM211100 03009KT P6SM BKN130
 FM211200 03009KT P6SM OVC030
 FM211400 03010KT 2SM -SN OVC008

light snow huh

7:20 PM

@egid don't say that word

;\

the worst of it is that it's sunny with blue skies out my window

but Paine is gonna be socked in all day

@egid its probably a tossup, perhaps a bit more on the supercharger side. The primary differences are the direct drive on the super to spin the turbine and the hot section and gaskets on the turbo to accommodate exhaust flow. MX differences probably come down to how often the mechanical drive in a super breaks vs the gaskets in a turbo

@casey yeah that's more or less what I figured, but the prevalence of turbos over superchargers makes me sort of assume that there's a cost reason

either installed cost, or ongoing, or replacement seems like it must be higher on a supercharger

because the failure mode of a turbo strikes me as a lot worse

@egid don't superchargers eat up an accessory mount (or equivalent) to get their power?

i suppose so... i've only ever flown turbos

my knowledge of supercharging comes from cars and books :)

7:35 PM

With the exception of diesel engines I prefer my engines normally aspirated

I quite liked flying a turbo:

user image

yeah but then I need a pressurization system (or oxygen bottle) - I'm lazy man!

7:50 PM

-3

Q: PHP cURL: yahoo curl service - The service has been shut down?

I tried to test php_curl on yahoo curl service but I get an error back from yahoo. // create a new cURL resource $handle = curl_init(); // set URL and other appropriate options // http://search.yahooapis.com/WebSearchService/V1/webSearch?appid=YahooDemo&query=persimmon&results=10 curl_setopt_ar...

php curl twitter

@egid I'm sorry, this is why I don't visit Stack Overflow (and why I'm migrating away from Server Fault more and more)

haha

"If you can't read the @*&#*^&* message you shouldn't have a @&*^%&*#^&*#@ computer."

If bad programmers were pilots: <stall horn squealing> "I pull back on the stick but the plane doesn't go up.... what could possibly be wrong?"

And the best part is that he has 5,600+ reputation.

HOW?!?!?!?

@Lnafziger Stack Overflow

They'll upvote anything

8:18 PM

heh

anybody know of a website that will let you dump in a list of departure cities and destinations and see which one is the most cost-effective hub? :)

like say you wanted to pick a spot to live in the US partly based on its cost of access to the rest of the world

@egid Da Google? :)

or a place to stay in Europe for a couple of months based on how much it would cost to get to other cities

yeah, i am currently doing flights.google + a spreadsheet

but it's pretty manual

If you punch in the round-trip or one-way for a city it gives you that map -- presumably that data is passed forward to the client somehow?

Ah: stackoverflow.com/questions/10210903/…

that looks promising

hmm that's a good point

i'll file this away for a future weekend project

2 hours later…

10:03 PM

@Lnafziger I have you a half-answer on your brakes question. We'd need another jet guy to talk about things like whether reverse thrust on landing appreciably saves your brake linings (my assumption is it does)

!!tell voretaq7 distance lpl jfk

Otto the Autopilot

@voretaq7 Liverpool John Lennon Airport - John F Kennedy International Airport • 5,326km / 3,309mi / 2,876nm • About x hours by jet

@DannyBeckett what are you using for the speed for "about X hours"? and are you factoring in winds? :)

glad you asked ;)

I was gonna ask you..

it's as the crow flies anyway

I would avoid the subject by simply removing that part :)

10:12 PM

I think it could be interesting

otherwise you need to know airspeed, altitude, and winds aloft

could use like 200kts average speed

or another average

"About 8 hours @ 200kts"

200kts at sea level < 200 kts at 30,000 feet

then with altitude

and no winds :p

well actually to be accurate 200KIAS @ 30,000ft != 200kts groundspeed :-)

10:15 PM

btw, I've switched over from screenscraping ourairports.com (to convert IATA -> ICAO, and to get airport names) to using their CSV dump, which I've written a script to port to SQL and keep itself up-to-date. So now lookups on the whole should be a bit faster

they also have data of frequencies for airports which I'm gonna import and get running tonight

they have a runways file too - files are here: ourairports.com/data

10:40 PM

@voretaq7 Like I commented on your answer, I'm sure that all of those will help. It's just a matter of how much and whether or not it is worth it.

If it extends brake life by 1%, then I'm not so sure. 10% or 25% then absolutely! That's why I asked if any studies had been done on the subject or anything like that.

The "about x hours by jet" would need to factor in current winds aloft. You could use 39,000 ft as a "typical" cruising altitude for a jet (unless it is less than about 250-300 miles then it would be lower).

@Lnafziger the only one I know would be a help is not standing on the brakes during taxi (I saw trainers come back from 100 hour inspections with new brakes and go back in for new brakes 5-10 hours later because whoever was flying them apparently never moved their feet off the top of the pedals)

I'd imagine using thrust reversers probably saves an appreciable amount of brake wear though

Off to the movies, talk to you guys later!

11:01 PM

!!tell voretaq7 distance lpl jfk

Otto the Autopilot

@voretaq7 Liverpool John Lennon Airport - John F Kennedy International Airport • 5,326km / 3,309mi / 2,876nm • 23 hours by Cessna Skyhawk • 6 hours by Airbus A380

that's based on cruise speed (230 & 902 km/h)

that doesn't sound completely wrong for a 182 (125kts cruise, give or take)

ok cool, well there's a new command you can mess with anyway: !!distance JFK MIA

open to feedback on the timing from people!

great circle distance?

11:06 PM

haversine

I guess that's the same

....yeah

@DannyBeckett close enough.

!!distance EWR YYT

Otto the Autopilot

Newark Liberty International Airport - St. John's International Airport • 1,866km / 1,160mi / 1,008nm • 8 hours by Cessna Skyhawk • 2 hours by Airbus A380

!!distance kfrg kash

Otto the Autopilot

@voretaq7 No matching airport could be found for the code KFRG! Check you typed the correct 3-letter IATA code or 4-letter ICAO code.

11:07 PM

. . . i promise you that airport exists Otto

It always was lonely flying out there, with every one else on freq heading out to atlantic control while we descended and hoped the weather wouldnt force us to gander

!!distance frg ash

Otto the Autopilot

@voretaq7 No matching airport could be found for the code FRG! Check you typed the correct 3-letter IATA code or 4-letter ICAO code.

otto's drunk @DannyBeckett :)

!!distance ISP BOS

Otto the Autopilot

Long Island Mac Arthur Airport - General Edward Lawrence Logan International Airport • 247km / 153mi / 133nm • 1 hour by Cessna Skyhawk • <1 hour by Airbus A380

11:09 PM

reasonably close to correct and about the same distance/direction

@voretaq7 huh, both KFRG and KASH are in the database. I'll have a look at it after I've had something to eat

	id	ident	iata	type	name	location	elevation
	3539	KFRG		medium_airport	Republic Airport	POINT	82
	19310	KASH	ASH	small_airport	Boire Field	POINT	199

@DannyBeckett CLEARLY. DRUNK.

ah there's no IATA for KFRG in the db

10

Q: What to do when the captain smells like alcohol?

Suppose you're the co-pilot on a flight and during pre-flight, talking to the captain, you smell alcohol. Although you didn't see him drinking and the smell isn't strong, what does regulation stipulate you should do?

faa-regulations safety

s/captain/autopilot/

:D

will fix it soon

11:14 PM

<screams "BROKEN" and pounds on keyboard>

USER MODE ON! :)

11:37 PM

!!tell voretaq7 distance kfrg kash

Otto the Autopilot

@voretaq7 Republic Airport - Boire Field • 277km / 172mi / 150nm • 1 hour by Cessna Skyhawk • <1 hour by Airbus A380

accidentally limited the records being searched; fixed now!

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Jan '1420

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