The Hangar

Or maybe it was the other way around, I don't remember. The pilot is the one who hits the button, but the commander is the one who's supposed to call for the gear.

Lnafziger

4:04 AM

Yeah, I can see that. Putting the gear down at an airspeed is not something that a pilot would be used to doing... Especially considering that it was that low too.

Steve V.

5:44 AM

Does this sound like something that can be answered, or should it be closed?

0

Q: Is Aerotoxic Syndrome a Myth?

I have recently become aware of aerotoxic syndrome and been advised I should wear a mask when travelling on commercial airlines except maybe on the 787 which does not use a bleed air system. Airlines refuse to install air quality detection systems but are they setting themselves up for massive i...

safety

I'm thinking the first part ("Is this a myth") is fine but the second part about "insurance claims" is not.

(not in and of itself, but because it assumes the answer to the first question is "yes")

Bret Copeland

6:55 AM

@SteveV. that's not a good fit at all for this site... or probably any SE site. I closed it and explained why in the comments. Besides being off topic, his question was essentially circular to begin with - "Since aerotoxic syndrome exists, and it kills people, and there has already been legal action, are the airlines setting themselves up for legal action?"

Steve V.

@BretCopeland Good call.

"Circular", that's the word i was looking for.

Bret Copeland

@SteveV. thanks for pointing it out.

Steve V.

aw, shucks, sir, t'wern't nothin.

Bret Copeland

@SteveV. I saw your answer about the go-around. Interestingly, my examiner didn't make me do a go-around.

Steve V.

On which ride?

Bret Copeland

7:03 AM

I think they have some flexibility in what they consider passing for certain tasks. Like, no rectangular pattern because you fly the traffic pattern instead. And they can count the emergency landing (where you don't actually land) as a go-around.

@SteveV. Private

Steve V.

Ah, never mind. I'm a Private Pilot working on my instrument rating, and general aviation enthusiast.

And yeah, that's what i was just about to say. "Did you do an engine failure to an off-airport approach?" followed by "Did you do a go-around from that approach?"

The rectangular course is different, though.

Bret Copeland

why do you say that?

It serves the same purpose.

Steve V.

Er...let me expand on that. The examiner does not need to see the rectangular course. This has nothing to do with the traffic pattern substituting for the R. Course, it has everything to do with the fact that the examiner needs to select at least one task from Section VI of the PTS.

(ground reference maneuvers)

Of which there are three - turns around a point, rect course, and S-turns.

If you did one of those other two, you don't have to do the rectangular course.

Bret Copeland

@SteveV. oh, yeah I guess that's true.

I think I did both of the other two.

Steve V.

:]

How long ago did you go on your ride?

Bret Copeland

7:09 AM

12-22-2012

Steve V.

Nice. How goes progress on the instrument?

Bret Copeland

Slow. I'm just really busy and it's a rather long hike to the airport.

Steve V.

In case I forget to mention it later, I just clicked on your profile and I'm very impressed. If I hadn't gone into aviation / education, I think I'd like to be doing what you're doing right now.

Bret Copeland

@SteveV. huh... I'm just a software developer. What's so impressive?

Steve V.

@BretCopeland Huh, i'm just an ATP. What's so impressive?
You're really good at doing something that I want to be really good at. Simple as that.

:)

Bret Copeland

7:21 AM

Yeah, I think you always tend to be less impressed by your our own expertise.

Happens a lot with software development. Everything is magic until you actually dig in and see how it works, then it's generally not as impressive as you were expecting.

Steve V.

I can believe that.

Bret Copeland

@SteveV. by the way, have you planned your lawsuit against the airlines for being poisoned by aerotoxic syndrome yet?

Steve V.

HA

Assuming everything in the linked articles were true, (of course they are, everything on the internet is true), the only place where there's legal precedent for aerotoxic syndrome is Australia.

Bret Copeland

It looks like very sketchy evidence at best.

Steve V.

Besides, I'm male and American, if I live long enough my chances of cancer are 100% anyway.

All the avgas and other excellent chemicals i'm exposed to are just changing the source, not the result.

Bret Copeland

7:31 AM

I mean, we have A LOT of examples of people who fly everyday, and have for decades. You'd think there'd be a little more correlation established by now.

Steve V.

Agreed.

Bret Copeland

My favorite is how some of the "evidence" which is used to support the claim is that they bet some of the plane crashes are a result of it.

Steve V.

I've kind of given up correcting people in situations like that. There are always going to be people who watch Fight Club and think that airline seats are designed to kill passengers in a crash to avoid lawsuits for medical treatment.

Or whatever. I forget what the urban legend in Fight Club was.

Bret Copeland

You've never read Airframe by Michael Crichton by chance have you?

Steve V.

Sure have.

Bret Copeland

7:37 AM

I thought that was a great fictionalized story which represented how much the general public doesn't understand about aviation accidents.

Steve V.

It really was. And also how incompatible the process of accident investigation is with the way the modern news media works.

Bret Copeland

For sure.

Steve V.

"A plane crashed today! We'll tell you the reasons why on the 6 'o clock news tonight!"

Bret Copeland

When I was having a recent discussion with someone about why we spend so much money investigating crashes, I used the example of the first jets with square windows, and people weren't sure why they kept mysteriously crashing.

Steve V.

Good example!

Steve V.

8:00 AM

I'm out. G'night @BretCopeland!

Bret Copeland

night

Bret Copeland

9:19 AM

@SteveV. by the way, that guy pretty significantly tamed down his question. I still don't think it's that great of a question, but it's perhaps answerable, so I reopened it.

Stack Exchange

9:34 AM

This Day in Aviation: 19–20 January 1915

posted on January 19, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

19–20 January 1915: The Kaiserliche Marine (Imperial Germany Navy) airship L3, under command of Kapitänleutnant Hans Fritz and Leutnant zur See v. Lynckner, departed Fuhlsbüttel at 11:00 a.m., in company with L4 and L6, on a reconnaissance flight over the North Sea, then continued on to Britain, planning to attack during darkness. L3 reached the British coast at 8:50 p.m. and proceeded to [R…

Stack Exchange

11:43 AM

This Day in Aviation: 19 January 1937

posted on January 19, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

19 January 1937: Howard Robard Hughes, Jr., departed Union Air Terminal, Burbank, California, at 2:14 a.m., Pacific Standard Time (10:14 UTC) aboard his Hughes Aircraft Company H-1 Racer, NR258Y. He flew non-stop across the continent to Newark Metropolitan Airport, Newark, New Jersey, and arrived at 12:43:27 p.m., Eastern Standard Time (17:43:27 UTC). Hughes completed the 2,490-mile (4,007.3 […

egid

3:00 PM

Whoops. Didn't realize my vote to close was no longer a vote! Thinking a little longer on that one.

0

Q: Why is the wrong explanation of "air travels a longer distance and creates a lift" so popular?

When I was learning for my license, one of the first diagrams I remember was about the wing profile. The air going around the wing and on the upper side it has to travel a longer way, thus generating lower pressure and bang, plane is flying. Same explanation already back at school. See my other ...

aerodynamics wing

I do think this needs rewriting or to be spun off into something else.

It's a great question with no single answer IMO

Stack Exchange

3:32 PM

This Day in Aviation: 19 January 1975

posted on January 19, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

19 January 1975: Major Roger J. Smith, United States Air Force, a test pilot assigned to the F-15 Joint Test Force at Edwards AFB, California, flew the McDonnell Douglas F-15A-6-MC 72-0119, Streak Eagle, to its seventh Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI) world time-to-altitude record. From brake release at Grand Forks Air Force Base, North Dakota, the F-15 […] The post 19 Januar…

Steve V.

4:40 PM

Is there a practical-test-standards tag? I think that's what's really needed here: aviation.stackexchange.com/q/1150/167

egid

5:12 PM

hmmm

well, there's nothing in the PTS about the applicant choosing to go around on a landing task so this is technically more of an examiner question than a PTS question ;)

but maybe that's why it's a PTS question :D

Steve V.

Examiner would be the more correct tag, but pts would be the better tag, i think, for reasons of discoverability.

egid

yeah

might as well

done!

nice answer to that by the way

i tried going all hardcore and quoting the PTS, once you brought it up in here :D

Steve V.

5:36 PM

:)

With enough pilots, sooner or later someone whips out the regs.

It's like Hitler on the Internet.

egid

haha

my teaching style is honestly mostly "well, where do you think you'd find the answer to that?"

Lnafziger

@egid I considered the same thing earlier and decided that the PTS is already covered by the "flight-training" tag because it also covers testing.

egid

@Lnafziger fair enough... let's see how it goes, and we can synonym it later

Lnafziger

(if you look at the tag wiki that is)

egid

hmm, we can synonym it now then

Steve V.

5:38 PM

@Lnafziger - Also, there's no such thing as turbocharging, they just give the hamster meth.

egid

aviation.stackexchange.com/tags/practical-test-standards/…

Lnafziger

Up to you, I don't know that they are "exactly the same" though... Just not needed since it is already covered by another tag.

egid

we'll see what people think!

checkride vs flight-training

Steve V.

Hold on...i don't know anything about tags but to me it looks like you want to make "practical test standards" the master and "flight training" the pointer?

Do i have that backwards?

egid

crap. um, that's a good question

i don't know how this works

Lnafziger

5:40 PM

@egid When I was cleaning up the regulation tag, I actually removed one "checkride" tag (it was only one question) and put flight-training on it.

yeah, it's backwards

egid

maybe you should downvote these

that's not what i expected

@Lnafziger i can see it being useful to separate training from the exam

but i'm not sure

Steve V.

I don't think it should be synonym'd at all. The two concepts aren't close enough. I can think of flight training questions that have nothing to do with the PTS.

And i could probably come up with a PTS question that didn't have anything to do with flight training...maybe.

egid

'what must i bring to a checkride'

that's pretty much pts exclusive

Lnafziger

@egid Yeah, I went through the same line of thinking... The "checking" part is such a relatively small part of the overall training part though that I don't know that it warrants its own tag.

egid

i think we should be willing to accept a bit of tag jungle for now

and if there are one-offs after 90 days, we can merge them or whatever later

Lnafziger

5:43 PM

@egid But, if "flight-training" includes testing/checkride (by the definition of the tag wiki) then that question would also fall under it.

egid

true, but now you've merged two pretty distinct concepts just because the definition says so

Steve V.

Maybe it shouldn't - the checkride is evaluation, not training.

egid

if people are trending towards separate tags

we shouldn't force them into one

Lnafziger

@egid Yeah, but we are also setting an example now too... If the tag keeps coming up on it's own then great. We should do what we think is best on our own posts (and those that we edit) though! :)

I think that there was a discussion on meta about that... i originally had a flight-certification tag or something like that, and some people didn't like it... Lemme look.

@SteveV. I agree that they shouldn't be synonym'd as they are different concepts.

egid

random question... what's the thought on the sportys.com/Pilotshop/product/9337 fuel level gauges?

i've seen them slide into tanks before... the school's shop haaaated them

Lnafziger

5:46 PM

@egid I love them! I used to always carry one.

egid

yeah, me too. on at least one occasion it was mine that a student launched into the tank :(

i don't really get how they were holding it to let that happen but hey

oh! i wanted to bring up the aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/1157/… question

i think that 'bad aviation/aerodynamics myths' could be a good topic of the week

but i think that the way this question is written is pretty problematic

Lnafziger

yeah, it would be a good topic of the week.

Steve V.

@egid Where I teach we use a T-shaped aluminum fuel dipstick. Same thing but you can't drop it in because the T part is too big to fit down the collar.

egid

nice. that makes a lot more sense. are those harder to read, though?

Lnafziger

@SteveV. Good idea, too bad it takes up more room though. Maybe we can get one with a spring loaded T that folds up?

Steve V.

5:49 PM

These aren't the right terms but there's matte aluminum and glossy aluminum...the glossy ones are almost impossible to read. The matte ones are super easy.

Lnafziger

@egid I hear ya, but think it's a good question. The "why" part is hard to answer definitively, though we can make some reasonably good guesses.

egid

@SteveV. these? cessna150152.com/shop/viewitem.php?productid=29

Steve V.

Well, our mx shop fabricates them in-house but yes, that same thing.

HEY NEAT

There's a picture right there.

Thanks google!

egid

haha

/me peers at the area51 stats

so i don't think visits/day is going to be a problem

we're already showing up in google results for things that have been asked here

Steve V.

@egid - If you look, you can actually see the fuel level even in the video.

►

egid

5:56 PM

yeah, that looks pretty nice

Steve V.

I wonder if this video was someone's senior project.

I've never seen it before.

egid

haha

I'm in at least one UND video, shooting an ILS to minimums

►

my MEI was the guy who started the Aerocast stuff, he's still doing the production work

I'm at :33 and a couple other spots :D youtube.com/watch?v=iMT7DRSyybI#t=178

trying to find my approach now, actually

Steve V.

aarrrgghh....UND videos are just so freakin good.

I wish we could produce videos of this quality.

egid

yeah, Bottini is a pro

literally!

tonywoodproductions.com

Lnafziger

So Pondlife's answer here:

3

A: Tags airman-certification and flight-training are inconsistent

First, does "airman certification" really include mechanics, ATC etc.? The FAA's airmen certification page refers to pilots only and mechanics - for example - have a separate page. So I think the current definition of that tag may be incorrect or at least somewhat misleading. And EASA refers most...

egid

6:03 PM

he is taking time off as a pilot at Pinnacle (he's ex-Mesaba) and doing this full time

Lnafziger

says that he didn't think that the two tags were big enough subjects to stand on their own (and so far he has the most upvotes).

@egid Oh, hey. For now there is still the airman-certification for certification/testing questions.

egid

@SteveV. youtube.com/watch?v=iMT7DRSyybI#t=829 :D

i think this is where the actual ILS breaks out

yay seminole

Steve V.

heh...UND seminoles always make me think of the time UND brought a Seminole to WMU and parked it on our ramp

Our maintenance guys pasted WMU decals over all of the UND logos on the plane.

egid

hahaha

Steve V.

We later learned the UND dean was here for a meeting

oops

egid

6:10 PM

that's awesome

Steve V.

:]

egid

how long have you been teaching there?

or are you also a grad?

Steve V.

Both. Graduated 07, teaching there since then. CFI for the first several years, only just recently became a member of the teaching faculty.

(which means i'm still in the plane, yay!, but i'm also doing lecture hall instruction)

(hey, neat, we're the same age, as long as you're not lying in your profile)

egid

ah nice

and yep

i transfered in... 04? and wound up graduating as a super senior

taught for about 3.5 years full time, now i freelance once in a while and develop the webs

Steve V.

Was that flight instruction during the 08-09 hiring wasteland?

egid

6:15 PM

mostly i do instrument proficiency work with couple of former students

yeah, i taught 07-11

a bunch of classmates did graduate and get hired

but i wanted to spend a little more time before deciding if i wanted to go regional

(and the answer was no, i do not want to go to regionals)

Steve V.

Same. Almost word for word my feelings.

egid

I think I already mentioned this, but an old roommate now teaches at The OSU, he does intro to aviation and some management classes if I have it right

and my other roommate is a tower supervisor :D

only one or two of my close friends wound up flying out of our class

Steve V.

That's about the same as my experience....maybe a few more.

egid

i'd say of the graduating batch at least 25-30 did go to the airlines

but i haven't stayed in touch with any and most of the folks i knew well were a year ahead of me graduation wise

Steve V.

Here's hoping they're doing well. The <strike>airlines</strike> regionals are certainly giving the impression that they're getting desperate for pilots. (or at least desperate to guarantee their pipeline)

egid

6:28 PM

the ones I talk to (a couple of coworkers went on to regionals) are ehh about it

one guy ahead of me is an FO at Alaska, but his dad is a senior captain, so... nepotism anybody? :)

egid

6:59 PM

that was exhausting... just filled out the Global Entry application

Steve V.

Never heard of it.

egid

it's the DHS skip-customs-and-lines program

i think it's formally like the pre-approved traveler program or something

globalentry.gov

Steve V.

oh neat

egid

you also automatically become part of TSA Pre✓™

http://tsa.gov/tsa-pre✓™

haha markdown strips the characters from the link

egid

7:21 PM

!!taf KPAE

Otto the Autopilot

TAF
  AMD KPAE 191907Z 1919/2018 36005KT 1SM BR OVC002
 FM192200 33003KT 2SM BR OVC004
 FM192300 33003KT 5SM BR BKN011
 FM200500 03004KT 6SM BR OVC006
 FM200600 03004KT 1/2SM FG VV002

egid

8:58 PM

anybody know how chatroom tags are supposed to work

egid

9:59 PM

Is it me, or has AOPA sort of gone off the rails lately? I mean, for the last year or more it's "AOPA PILOT TURBINE EDITION" according to the magazine cover. Which aircraft owners are they representing? :)

probably oughta switch to Flight Training

egid

10:39 PM

@Lnafziger land slower, huh? :P

Lnafziger

@egid There are two versions of the magazine that you can get. Sounds like you are getting the wrong one.

@egid And yeah, it's relative. :-)

@egid What chatroom tags are you asking about?

egid

11:03 PM

I've got the digital edition, no idea why I'm getting turbine edition then. There's no option to switch.

If you look at the topic panel, you can set tags that appear to match the qa tags.

room topic changed to The Hangar: Heckle the new moderators. [general-aviation]

There, take a look.

Lnafziger

hmmm

0

Q: How do chat room tags work?

I can't seem to find any documentation on the mechanics of tagging a chat room. What is the benefit of tagging a room? Based on how they're used in the Teachers' Lounge, I used to think it dictated what questions were fed into the room, but that's based on the room's feeds, not its tags. So wha...

support tags chat

Doesn't seem to do a lot, lol.

egid

11:25 PM

Haha interesting

It's kind of funny how often answers wind up with more votes than questions.

Lnafziger

Yeah, I know. In my mind, if the question is good enough to get an answer that I upvote, then the question deserves an upvote too.

What's even funnier is that the one up-vote is the one that I just gave it.

(help him out and give him another since you had the same question, lol.)

egid

Yeah, it's strange.

so i'm inspecting the desktop version of chat's behavior on an iPad

i really don't get the weird scroll behavior

the only potentially crazy js in here is probably the scroll on new message stuff

27

Q: How to get height of entire document with JavaScript?

Some documents I can't get the height of the document (to position something absolutely at the very bottom). Additionally, a padding-bottom on seems to do nothing on these pages, but do on the pages where height will return. Case(s) in point: http://fandango.com http://paperbackswap.com On Fan...

javascript height

question: 27 up; 20 favs. accepted answer: 85 up what the hell

Lnafziger

11:41 PM

Yeah right?

egid

11:53 PM

i thought carbon brakes were carbon-carbon

not carbon fiber

Reinforced carbon–carbon

Pieces of reinforced carbon–carbon including a panel removed from the wing of [[Space Shuttle Atlantis, showing brittle failure of C/C due to foam impact reproducing a possible event during Columbias final launch.]] Carbon fibre-reinforced carbon (aka carbon–carbon, abbreviated C/C) is a composite material consisting of carbon fiber reinforcement in a matrix of graphite. It was developed for the nose cones of intercontinental ballistic missiles, and is most widely known as the material for the nose cone and wing leading edges of the Space Shuttle orbiter. It has been used in the brake syst...

ah ok never mind that's just a naming thing, still carbon fiber

Lnafziger

Yeah, I've always heard them called carbon-fiber...

egid

i mostly know about them from automotive stuff, especially racing

everything i have read, they just call 'em carbon-carbon

Lnafziger

By the way, how do you call up the wikipedia articles like that? Post the link?

egid

yeah.

seems like most of the one box things are a matter of just the link

images, etc

Lnafziger

Is there a list somewhere of what works?

egid

11:56 PM

haha, probably! :)

have you seen pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-514065.html by the way?

Lnafziger

Nah, I got to watch a really cool video about carbon fiber brakes on airplanes when I went to school for the Falcon 900 (first airplane that I flew with them). Figured I'm not the only one who didn't have experience with them before then though. :)

Transcript for