TRPG General Chat

Zachiel

10:00 PM

Ok guys. The first one who asks if it's my usual game gets a punch in his/her face. (XD hello guys!)

Were you the DM

LitheOhm

@Zachiel eh?

Simon Gill

@Zachiel Why don;t you just tell us which game you were talking about first so we have some context, and we don't need to ask?

Zachiel

because I don't think the game is relevant in this specific case, but it looks like everyone tries to say "if it's that whacky game of yours logic can't apply"

D&D 3.5. What would happen if I managed to cast scry + message to get in touch with a NPC with indifferent attitude?

Simon Gill

@Zachiel A PNG? I assume you don't mean Portable Network Graphic? :P

Ah, interesting.

Anyway, I don't think anything special happens. He recieves the message and acts on it with all his current knowledge.

Zachiel

Think Evil NPC with something to hide and many personal private affairs

LitheOhm

10:06 PM

their attitude is not relevant.

Zachiel

well maybe if it was friendly or hostile things would have been different

Simon Gill

@LitheOhm Assuming that you sign your message - or your identity is revealed - then attitude is relevant.

LitheOhm

@SimonGill true.

Zachiel

My identity was clear from the content of the message

LitheOhm

@Zachiel did the message pertain to their "something to hide" or "many personal private affairs"?

Zachiel

10:07 PM

no

Simon Gill

@Zachiel "I don't think anything special happens. He recieves the message and acts on it with all his current knowledge."

Zachiel

I just want to see how many people actually could see what happened later

LitheOhm

yeah. If it continues and is annoying, then an evil and particularly powerful NPC might become annoyed and seek retribution.

Simon Gill

@Zachiel Anybody who is scrying and anybody in visual range with line of sight... I can't think of anything that would change that.

LitheOhm

or at the very least, misdirection

@SimonGill yep

Zachiel

10:09 PM

@SimonGill how many of you could foresee the npc reaction I mean

LitheOhm

@Zachiel it'd depend on the NPC and their motivations, as well as what inclines them toward evil

Zachiel

bipolar paranoid npc

LitheOhm

lol. Not specific at all, are you :P

Simon Gill

@Zachiel It depends entirely on the NPC and message in question.

Zachiel

with affairs with a dragon cult cell

LitheOhm

10:11 PM

@Zachiel I'd say the bipolarity would give you a randomness factor of whether they were up/down during the receipt of the message.

Simon Gill

@Zachiel Why does he not have scry-blocking of some kind up already? A lead lined room for starters.

Zachiel

ok my question was more general. Did any of you thought that someone could be offended if I took a peek into their lives without any advice?

LitheOhm

the paranoid part, probably seek to find out who. However, if identity was revealed: might seek out that person

@Zachiel how do you mean, "without any advice?"

Zachiel

like

suddenly

I decide I have to tell you something

and I scry on you

LitheOhm

any previous involvement? Were we friends once? Those factors would come into play, I bet

especially if said NPC was once nonevil

Zachiel

10:13 PM

We had previus professional contact

I told the NPC I had to get in touch with him but I didn't tell him how

And he didn't expect privacy violation

LitheOhm

@Zachiel does scrying count as privacy violation in your world?

Simon Gill

@Zachiel He wouldn't be happy.

Zachiel

I think it counts.

Simon Gill

@LitheOhm Why wouldn't it? Who would like being seen without having control of the camera?

LitheOhm

@Zachiel k. In my games it doesn't. People who don't want it can have spells or magic items.

Zachiel

10:15 PM

I think a leaden chamber would do

you don't have a parley with a dragon in a leaden chamber

LitheOhm

@SimonGill not sure. I just never figured to limit it in DnD context. If there's wizards, then there's crystal balls and that's something people would accept

@Zachiel lead and a few other things block scrying, true. Nondetection, misdirection and some other stuff also

Zachiel

So a wizard can see me when I make out?

Popular revolt!

LitheOhm

@Zachiel sadly, yes.

Zachiel

lvl 1 npc

popular fireball too

Simon Gill

@LitheOhm Sounds dystopian to me. But if it works, then that's fine.

LitheOhm

10:17 PM

any wizard with that spell would hopefully have better things to do, but maybe that's the only reason they became a wizard

Zachiel

I wasn't talking about on-purpose

LitheOhm

@SimonGill most of the books I've read contain less-than-famous wizards, like Stephen King's Eyes of the Dragon

Zachiel

So it's 0 on 3 figuring it out before I had the solution out

let's say 0/2 because of @LitheOhm's assumptions

LitheOhm

Flagg has more important things to do then care about who is making out with who. However, if someone mentions his name then he is aware, it's his business as far as he is concerned (very evil megalomaniac, and yes dystopian)

Zachiel

Thank you guys

I feel a little bit less stupid now. (And sorry if some of that got attached to you)

LitheOhm

10:19 PM

@Zachiel glad to help :P still not sure I understand the question, admittedly

Simon Gill

@LitheOhm same

Zachiel

Since I did that to a PC

and the PC reported me to my guild leader expecting it never happens again

And I'm leaving the guild to save my leader's reputation

I was wondering if it really was so easy to foresee the consequences as everybody tells me

LitheOhm

@Zachiel no way, not easy to foresee said consequences. There are so many different factors and choices and paths.

Zachiel

admittedly it might have been tied to the social context of my game if you still were unconvinced of the solution but I got at least one positive here

LitheOhm

some factors would heavily influence it, but I wouldn't call that simple.

@Zachiel well that's good.

Zachiel

10:22 PM

let's say foresee the possible consequences

Simon Gill

You see, this is another one of those times that being in an online forum game changes the assumptions we need to make.

Zachiel

@SimonGill Maybe a DM's NPC would have made less of a fuss because NPCs don't really have unchangeable agendas

LitheOhm

@SimonGill yeah, if this were a Ravenloft, Eberron or Faerun game my answers would have differed at least slightly. And that's still in just the one system lol

Simon Gill

@Zachiel Probably.

LitheOhm

@Zachiel depends on how much your DM gets into it and what that NPCs agendas are, I'd say

Zachiel

10:25 PM

the (N)PCs agenda here seems to be OH GOD THEY SCRIED ON US LET'S SCARE EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO TRY THAT

Simon Gill

There's also the consideration that you're dealing with another player who doesn't have access to your tone and non-verbal signals.

Zachiel

@SimonGill sending message while he can't see me?

The content of the message wasn't really that important.

LitheOhm

@Zachiel lol. Well, if the person scried often enough and disrupted their life, then it's well within that NPCs rights to react. Doesn't make it correct, but how would you feel if you were a captive audience to someone you barely knew?

Zachiel

It might have been forgiven if it was urgent

Simon Gill

@Zachiel If complaining to the authorities has worked often in the past, then people will do that because they've been trained to.

@Zachiel No, you're dealing with a player sitting in some other room and interacting entirely through text.

LitheOhm

10:27 PM

@SimonGill yeah, I agree. Complaining to a guild leader isn't a scare tactic, it's called chain of command

Zachiel

Yes but I mean I didn't have to mimick anything

LitheOhm

if the guild leader doesn't approve, then the NPC is doing something wrong.

most of the time* qualifier lol

and depending on the game, perhaps even some of the time

Simon Gill

@Zachiel Sorry, don't understand.

Zachiel

the guid leader needed to approve because it's a politician (yes, this might be an issue)

LitheOhm

@SimonGill same. It appears context is important, @Zachiel

Zachiel

10:28 PM

@LitheOhm context, yes, which game, I still think no

LitheOhm

@Zachiel the system is 3.5, yes?

Zachiel

the system is free roleplay by chat using 3.5 rules for combat, and checks. No diplomacy or intimidate rolls out of combat

LitheOhm

@Zachiel odd, k.

maybe not, I don't do online forums much

Zachiel

really fun, If i could play a charactre who didn't take the wrong decisions at every step

LitheOhm

maybe that PC just wants to give you a hard time? I've had games like that.

Zachiel

10:30 PM

her guild leader wants to give everyone hard time

LitheOhm

@Zachiel nice.

Simon Gill

@Zachiel The fact that it is an online forum game with many players and DMs that are easily swayed by flattering their egos does matter in this case as well. It changes how things will happen from the usual idea of a few players around a table. We don't have enough experience of how your game works to understand what's really going on.

Zachiel

What I'm saying is that it could have been predictable here as it was there that there was something undesirable about being scried

the consequences are dependant of the peculiar game

LitheOhm

@SimonGill agreed

Zachiel

no DM involved here except for rolling the scry save

LitheOhm

10:32 PM

@Zachiel k

Simon Gill

Yeah, knowing you are being scried is unpleasant for characters. If the character had no way to know there was scrying happening - then the player is metagaming.

Zachiel

It had, for I was scrying the character to talk to her

while we were talking she didn't know I could see her

LitheOhm

@Zachiel not a character familiar with the message spell?

that one requires line of sight

Zachiel

that character maybe not (I don't know). Her guild leader, who was involved in the message, lvl 16 wizard

so she also knew which spells can be used to send message to long distances

LitheOhm

did she know for sure you weren't within a hundred feet or so?

Zachiel

10:36 PM

different city

and she was in her bedroom

Simon Gill

So the complaining character knew that you scried on her in a private location?

Zachiel

yes

Simon Gill

And she took OOC action or IC action against you?

Zachiel

IC

Simon Gill

Yeah, that all seems reasonable to me.

Zachiel

10:37 PM

If someone was wondering, it is my decision to leave the guild

not my guild leader's

LitheOhm

@SimonGill same here

@Zachiel right, to save face for the leader

Zachiel

the only thing I can say against that is that she chose where she was when I scried her

LitheOhm

@Zachiel was it prearranged?

Zachiel

but I don't think it's relevant since I wasn't floating invisible near to her

pre-arranged in the sense that I told her "I'm gonna scry on you to send you a message, here's the text, tell me your reply"

LitheOhm

@Zachiel I'm not sure I follow this part, then.

Zachiel

10:40 PM

the previous day I sent her a different message

25 words

there's this guy coming to your town, pretends he's a cartographer, keep an eye on him he might be a liar for he sells treasure maps too cheap

please don't tell anyone

I'll call you tomorrow with more details

(paraphrasing)

instead of telling (in italian it's like "saying") that to anyone

she wrote it

LitheOhm

@Zachiel k

Zachiel

and her guild leader was pissed I gave orders to her subordinate

and she also was pissed I didn't want her to be informed

She teleported at me yesterday

LitheOhm

@Zachiel this was after she told her guild leader that she was messaged by your character, and scried upon by the same?

Simon Gill

So it's nothing to do with sending a message, more to do with what you said.

Zachiel

I'm getting to it in chronological order

LitheOhm

10:44 PM

@Zachiel k

Zachiel

and I had an hard time telling her guild leader I intended to explain today that she could tell that to anyone except the cartographer and the ones who were incapable of acting

LitheOhm

bbl

Zachiel

I got some hard looks for my choice to send a message to the most absent from town guild member also

Since my guild leader had the idea on who to call I declined my responsabilities for that

maybe my guild leader is angry at me too

yesterdey evening i used scry+message to tell the other guild member that everything was fine and that I solved the issue with her leader in person.

since she was expecting a message from me

I didn't think about using sending to tell her "I'm gonna scry on you"

plus several other things that happened meanwhile

like a sergeant in my guild being the message-receiver's magic mentor, which had me get punched in the face and grabbed by the neck by a ghaele-morphed character

because I tried to spy on her pupil (the sergeant is really possessive)

Simon Gill

Frankly - there's too many details to be sure what's going on and what you could do, or have done, differently.

Zachiel

I think I'm done with telling you the funny story

I could have lied on "yes I used message, why?"

but the low level PC made the questions in the best order

like "I'm impressed, what spells did you use?"

Simon Gill

10:54 PM

Maybe. Dunno.

Zachiel

I think I could have told them I use a personal variant of message

and trick her into believing that by casting scry with the hidden cast trick

mmmh I guess scry is too much visible when you cast it

you need a mirror

and someone appears there

lies are not so useful when spells can detect them

Simon Gill

:shrug:

Zachiel

I'm pumping up bluff only to feign a different alignment after a dispel

BESW

Given the astonishing variety of available spells, and the ability of prestige classes, feats, and magic items to modify them further, I have no problem with a 3.5 caster being able to snowball anybody not trained in spellcraft.

@Zachiel Pretty sure the DC for that is 60 or higher.

Zachiel

@BESW That's why I need a chocker of eloquence

BESW

10:58 PM

Display False Alignment: DC 70.

Zachiel

mmmh I guess my guild leader made a really sound choice deciding to raise charisma on his chamaleon

BESW

I had an epic doppelganger who could change alignment at a moment's notice, and could also make detect thoughts pick up whatever he wanted it to and nothing else.

I usually had him thinking about the Knight2King theory.

Zachiel

rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/16198/…

XD

BESW

Zachiel

+1

Simon Gill

11:04 PM

@BESW haha, love it.

BESW

11:22 PM

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Dai.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@BESW Dai stihó

Arrrrgh, this is a horrible case of jetlag.

BESW

11:34 PM

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Where are you now?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@BESW Sydney.

Zachiel

I think I'm playing something online now, bye

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@Zachiel good luck storming the castle.

Simon Gill

@Zachiel Shouldn't you know what you're doing? :P

BESW

@SimonGill I've taken the gnome and expanded his stats to be more transparent so I can run him without constantly looking things up.

Would you mind taking a look and making sure I didn't misunderstand anything?

Simon Gill

11:46 PM

@BESW Sure

BESW

Incoming textblock!

GARDEN GNOME
- Feisty Garden Ornament
Alertness: Average (+1) or Good (+3) to notice small things
Athletics: Mediocre (0) or Average (+1) to dodge
Fists: Fair (+2)
Investigation: Average (+1) or Good (+3) to notice small things
Stealth: Good (+3) or Epic (+7) to remain hidden
- Diminutive Size [-1], Inhuman Toughness [-2] (catch: smashing [+1]), Claws (Venomous) [-2] (flavored as bite), Glamours (seemings, can use Stealth for opposed efforts) [-2]
- Physical O O O O
- Venom: Fists maneouver to inflict "Poisoned" aspect: each subsequent exchange, target rolls Endurance to defend against an a…

Simon Gill

Is Dim. Size included in your stats?

BESW

Stealth up to Epic when hiding, Alertness/Investigation Good when looking for small things, Athletics +1 to dodge, penalties to Might, and limit 1 physical stress (but Fists:1 from Claws helps mitigate).

Simon Gill

I take it that Might ends up at 0 rather than in negatives? And is weapon damage after the limited stress damage?

BESW

(Which means you need a roll of 3 or higher with a Great Alertness to notice them when they want to hide.)

@SimonGill Might is assumed to be Mediocre, with penalties from -2 to -4 and flat-out inability as appropriate for situation.

Simon Gill

11:52 PM

@BESW And with the Glamour Seeming - they can hide right in front of you too :) I still love that idea.

BESW

I'm not sure if the Diminutive stress cap is applied before or after the weapon damage.

I assume it is.

@SimonGill Yes. This pleases me. And with FATE points you can find 'em if you know they're there.

Simon Gill

@BESW Works for me :) So long as you can see everything you need.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

urgh

Simon Gill

@BrianBallsun-Stanton More coffee?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

a time turner would be ... optimal.

Simon Gill

11:59 PM

Sorry, don't have one of those to spare.

BESW

@SimonGill Some idiot broke most of them.

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