@LitheOhm Good luck getting it sorted fast. I'll see you guys later :)

Wow. I think this is the first time I've ever seen the chat totally empty.

@BESW That's because my computer restarted and left Chrome closed :P

The Fairy Nuff shakes her minuscule fist at the tyranny of technology.

@BESW So she should.

Soooo. What's new?

My alarm actually poked me out of bed for the first time in weeks. What's old is watching a Tory politician dissemble about not building enough houses for the growing population of England.

That sounds depressing.

Which bit? Alarm not working or a growing problem of insufficient housing supply?

The latter, mostly.

Yeah. We're a country of NIMBYs, that's not helping much. More importantly, we have no money, no growth in our economy and a chancellor that is convinced that Keyes was wrong.

At least this guy isn't foolish enough to give a figure for the increase in Bulgarian and Romanian immigration which he thinks is probably wrong.

Huh.

I'm not especially up on modern British social politics, unfortunately.

@BESW No worries, we are a tiny country with delusions that we are important because of the banks headquartered in a square mile of the capital.

I did once hear that "diversity" means "each cultural group gets its own neighborhoods, because that means we respect their ways." Which.... boggled.

@SimonGill You also have some brilliant television. [grin]

@BESW Yeah. Despite being a country built up from repeated immigration and assimilation, we seem to have forgotten how to do that in the modern days.

@BESW Very true :)

(One reason I watched Primeval --aside from the astonishingly consistent so-bad-it's-good screen-shouting I could indulge in-- was watching them try to film like the BBC.)

Oh yeah - ITV are pretty bad. With the apparent exception of Downton Abbey.

I think the only non-BBC production I've ever seen rival the BBC for pure camerawork was Sapphire and Steel.

And that's probably because they knew full well they were working with a budget that made Doctor Who look like a royal wedding.

@BESW Never actually watched that... but it is supposed to be good.

@SimonGill It is! If you can meet it on its terms.

If you want action, or you know --things happening-- it might not appeal.

A good third of any given episode is closeups of the main actors' faces.

@BESW I heard that the ending is them falling into a time loop. Which sounds like a good description of a lack of action ;)

Are you familiar with the premise, such as it is?

@BESW Timecops, I think. But I'm not exactly confident on that.

@SimonGill Neither is anyone else.

@BESW Haha

Sapphire and Steel are two inter-dimensional agents of... something... who protect the Earth from... something.

It has to do with strange beings from outside time trying to get in and muck about, and S&S stop them.

Exactly what these things are, what they want, the limits of their abilities, or who the main characters are and what they can do is never fully --or in most cases at all-- explained.

Hmmm. Very strange sounding show.

S&S have limited telepathic abilities, Sapphire can know things' histories by touching them, Steel can cause massive temperature drops (which can slow down time, among other things), and they're both obviously and utterly inhuman.

Might have to dig out a copy sometime.

If you're going to watch just one, I suggest the second story. It's set in an abandoned railway station.

Most episodes are single-location shoots with no more special effects than fade transitions, but they use them to great effect.

And the actors carry it.

You weren't kidding with that budget crack!

It was ATV's attempt to counter Doctor Who.

@BESW Noble effort.... but Who just wins.

And yes, the budget was teensy. But where Doctor Who kept trying to do this its budget couldn't handle and wound up often being laughable instead of horrific as a result, S&S rarely tried to do something their budget couldn't cope with.

@SimonGill Of course. DW has built into its premise two of the greatest keys to longevity any TV program could ever have.

It can be set anywhere, about anything, and star anyone.

@BESW Like hire writers who can avoid plot holes and power creep? :P

While still having a strong backbone premise to provide consistency.

@SimonGill heh. If you never actually commit to anything, it's hard to have a plot hole about it.

Not in this current TV culture.

As a general rule we're more attached to our actors than our shows.

@BESW Certainly not in the American market...

(Look at all the hate Eleven got for not being Ten.)

@BESW Also true.

And I really can't wait for a proper Companion who isn't from modern-day Earth.

And maybe, just maybe, who isn't Special and/or In Love With the Doctor.

@BESW I was miffed about Clara... A non-modern companion would have been excellent.

Now she's modern AND Special.

@BESW Only one I can think of in New is Micky.

@SimonGill Rose, before she went all wonky.

@BESW mmmm, Donna didn't start out inherently special either...

I liked Rose with Nine. She was built in the model of Sarah Jane: her qualities came from within, from her personality. Rose was empathic and determined.

@BESW And then she went wonky.

@SimonGill I'm going to get flamed for this, but Donna was A Temp From Chiswick. That was her character note from day one.

@BESW Why are you going to get flamed for that?

That's not normal, that's flatter than Martha Smith, and Martha was A Black Doctor In Love With Him.

@SimonGill Because Donna is astonishingly popular.

Amy would've been good, but she Had A Crack In Her Bedroom.

(I actually cheered out loud when the Doctor went all "Ew! Human kissing me, do not want!" on her.)

@BESW And the hints were dropped early about her specialness. Unlike Donna who took a while to wind up to special.

Yeah.

@BESW Shame he didn't do the same with Clara though (considering he's married to River by this point in his timeline).

But every Companion has to be Special for some reason outside of themselves, except arguably Micky and Rory.

If they don't start out that way (Martha, Amy, Clara), they turn into it (Rose, Donna).

@BESW Rory the Roman... (Taking on a cyber-fleet by himself? Awesome yes, but wha!?)

@SimonGill He had determination and love, and the ability to roll with things. Those are personal, internal qualities. And yes, the cyber-fleet thing was bizarre and we're going to assume he had help.

@BESW I was about to say "He's a human made from plastic." But that's wrong after The Big Bang.

He also died more often than he changed his pants, but that was more of a running gag than a character note. (And totally destroyed the seriousness of the Farewell to Ponds.)

@SimonGill Yeah, that was not only temporary, it was a result of his personal qualities, and it was his personal qualities that led him to use it to his advantage.

@BESW I see your point, and agree with you now :)

@JonathanHobbs Yo.

Whereas Donna... could type really fast and use an index catalogue. Those aren't personality traits.

She was loud and off-putting. Those are personality traits! ....yes.

@BESW Yes... but she's an exaggerated version of the modern British lower middle class woman.

@SimonGill yes, and the audience thought that was clever and empowering instead of an offensive stereotype.

@BESW I thought the thing that destroyed the seriousness of the episode was that we were still busy grappling with a double-recreation of (a) every statue is now a weeping angel, not just the weeping angel ones and (b) Weeping angels now create time rifts which they now also feed off, whilst the writing being that of an episode that has them running around doing goofy stuff, with neither the writing nor the acting sufficient to draw us in on any emotional level

like "oh hey they're gone and this episode was bad"

The most three-dimensional Companions I can think of in New Who are Rory (the man who risks his life in sanity-bending experiences for love of a woman, without becoming blind to her foibles or the dangers they're being put in) and Micky "I'm the tin dog" Smith.

@JonathanHobbs That too.

I'm sorry but Leela the cavewoman had more depth to her character than most of the New Who companions. It saddens me that modern companions are reduced to "relevant to the plot in horrendously contrived ways."

@BESW That's an unfair comparison. A friend of mine who knows far more about the classic series than I do (even knows about the lost episodes) thinks she's the best companion ever.

But yes they could do with more incredible companions, and ones who aren't from any modern era

He does have all of time and space to choose from, after all, and there are humans everywhere throughout time and space

@JonathanHobbs So the question is really, "Which classic companion is just better than the best of the New Who companions?"

"I'm Perpugilliam Brown, and I can shout just as loud as you can!" was always a favorite moment for me, in an otherwise rather dull Companion.

@SimonGill Rory is a suitably challenging bar to beat

Is Sarah-Jane Smith cheating?

Also, relevant: youtube.com/watch?v=-XFhVEp1yNs

@BESW Nope, she's a classic companion, despite a cameo :P

Because of all the Companions she may have had the best character arc.

Ace was also good, but sadly didn't get a chance to finish her arc.

@BESW Although Ace started Special by being plucked out of her bedroom into a distant star system.

True.

Was it ever plot-relevant?

I was about to mention Cap'n Jack Harkness, but then I remembered most of his character development happens in Torchwood... and then I realised I'm still not sure if he is a better developed character than Leela.

I've only needed to hear a few things about her, and I've seen plenty of Jack.

@JonathanHobbs ...I think Captain Jack is an excellent example of the character being written for the actor.

@BESW For a short while. The Docs adversary pulled her across for some reason that I can't remember. Then he was defeated and it didn't really matter any more.

It totally derailed the character arc.

@SimonGill Fair enough.

And while I give massive props to Adric's actor, the Companion himself was not especially good.

Hmm. I'm fond of Jaime, but he was rather one-note.

Actually I guess Jack is fairly good.

@BESW That's brilliant

@JonathanHobbs In Doctor Who proper he's okay, but doesn't get much in the way of character.

Outside Doctor Who... they try so hard and fail so hard.

scutter2.tumblr.com/post/40319214238/…

this guy is like Jack Harkness but better

or like Jack Harkness but A Character

I look at Jack Harkness and I see Ben Carpenter from Shark Attack 3.

apparently he is sitting there being interviewed by the military super-computer for an exam, and instead of answering the questions, he's just ignoring them and flirting with the AI.

And eventually it errors out and destroys itself

Ace Rimmer is also a better Jack Harkness.

...which is sad.

(also that is not my blog)

@BESW That's true

But Ace Rimmer is Ace Rimmer.

What a guy!

Hahaha.

Hmm. Romana got a better arc in the audio stories, I think.

Also Romana II is seriously creepy.

Herp. I've written my campaign into a corner.

@BESW Oh dear. Maybe I could help you work that out tomorrow.

I must go to sleep! First day of my new job in the morning (late start thankfully)

Bye! :)

Ooh, have fun.

@JeorMMattan Ah, this has become too much for a comment; that was my mistake, I should have responded to you here. You are right about Hand Crossbow; it should probably just be added to the Crossbow group so you have to take the feat twice for both benefits. The Weapon Focus bonus is next-to-meaningless, so I don't care about giving that out.

@JeorMattin As for Knockout, yes it's a nat-20-or-lose at higher levels, quite intentionally so. It only works on targets that are unaware during a Surprise Round. If you manage a surprise round in every combat, it works once per combat. It allows stealthy types to actually do what they're supposed to at higher levels.

Where has the day gone :/

Anyone here looked at the FATE Core draft?

I have.

it seems that the PC's start out really low powered compared to other FATE games

Haven't run anything with it yet though

@C.Ross Certianly compared to DF with its 7 refresh.

The smaller number of aspects is an advantage - too many means lots of overlap.

@SimonGill or Diaspora's 5 Refresh + 3 Stunts

and I think SoC has a similar number

@C.Ross I think it is there to minimize overwhelming numbers of options in the core game - and to force people into compels sooner.

@SimonGill quite possible

oh, and SotC has 10 refresh + 5 stunts

I do like a smaller number of aspects. It's hard to come up with 10 good aspects for ever character

@C.Ross Yeah, SotC has a lot of Stunts.

The Extras concept in Core should fill in the interesting options, but those are going to be setting dependent.