TRPG General Chat

AncientSwordRage

00:24

Our in person group has been submitting character sheets and the last too are a wizard with no spells without a cantrip and a monk with 10 str and 8 dex

I may have expressed my concern to the GM

(these are all brand new players)

Someone_Evil

For the first of those sounds like they haven't chosen spells yet (or at least written them down), the other one sounds... interesting

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil I'm hoping the wizard is just unfinished

Someone_Evil

IIRC we had several players choosing their spells in the minutes before (and sometimes after) session start, so I wouldn't worry about it.

AncientSwordRage

The other is definitely interesting... 16 intelligence on a Monk. Good definitely work

Someone_Evil

I do generally recommend having spell cards though, and having those prepped is helpful

AncientSwordRage

00:38

@Someone_Evil I don't think we have those, but good idea...

@Someone_Evil I'm not to worried, just in case they've misunderstood how wizarding works in DnD

Someone_Evil

@AncientSwordRage I have a simple formfillable version I made that I like, fits with standard card sleeves which makes nice enough to handle

@AncientSwordRage That's a possibility. I haven't GM'd for new players before, but expecting to need some time for clarifications is kinda in the cards (not exclusive to new players either, really)

AncientSwordRage

00:57

@Someone_Evil a print your own type thingy?

Someone_Evil

Aye

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil fully agree on the last I part. I mentally ported over 3.5 disengagement rules in my first 5e combat without checking/thinking

Someone_Evil

Link to the spellcards if you (or anyone) is interested: drive.google.com/file/d/1cVssCZdUfuqeI3T24KhQPBaGQQ8PHuYY/…, print at 100% and cut down the middle of the lines make them fit normal sleeves (because I didn't quite math right and don't feel like redoing it)

AncientSwordRage

01:18

@Someone_Evil oooh thanks!

Ben

03:29

Morning all!

[rechecks watch]

Afternoon*

Hot RPG Questions

06:28

1

Q: When does the 'duration' of a delayed spell begin?

There are a few options in 5e to delay casting. For example, the Ready action allows one to ready a spell: When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs. In this case, the casting takes place on the PC's turn, but...

Hot RPG Questions

09:28

4

Q: Can Temple of the Gods be cast on a small floating area at sea?

Players want to cast Temple of the Gods on a small floating square at sea. (It involves the shape water cantrip, but I want to put that aside for this question). The spell says it requires to be cast on ground-- so right there is a solid argument against allowing this, but I can see the argument ...

dnd-5e spells targeting area-of-effect

AncientSwordRage

@BESW just reading this properly now

> Bissette expects the launch of D&D’s next iteration — codenamed “One D&D” — to sound the death knell for Dungeon Masters Guild as Hasbro consolidates digital toolset D&D Beyond and other assets closer to the corporate chest. They point to the shuttering of first the WotC forums and then the online content subscription service D&D Insider as proof that the company has a history of leaving scorched earth and marooned creators in the wake of D&D’s iterations.

That wouldn't surprise me in the least

@Ben greetings watch checker

BESW

10:01

One of the reasons that's Really Bad is that there's creators whose countries aren't supported by the payment options itch and DTRPG use, and their only access to an international digital marketplace for TRPGs is through the Dungeon Master's Guild. They're locked into a marketplace that's got planned obsolescence baked into its bones, and because it's a brand-walled garden their buyers are unlikely to follow them to new marketplaces that are available.

AncientSwordRage

10:31

Oooof

BESW

Kazumi Chin wrote on twitter about the value of "games that rely upon set characters."

Update: Lumen Ryder now has "a nigh-complete toolkit for combat"

Wild Duelist by Rat Wave Game House. A medieval action ttrpg about animalfolk warriors travelling to violent duels. Illuminated by LUMEN.

Meguey Baker wrote on twitter about TRPGs as a form of folk art.

Ghostboy by Nevyn Holmes. a 2-4 player RPG about the beauty of moving on

"Map Design and The Free Path" by bankuei

Unhaunt This House by yanahn. Explore the Distorted Emotional Nightmare of a Haunt as Investigators with Supernatural Powers

Gangs of Titan City by Soul Muppet Publishing. Grimdark Urban Roleplaying in a nightmare supercity. (itch.io), (DTRPG), (Soulmuppet store)

AncientSwordRage

@BESW I read this and didn't know how to respond constructively (not soliciting advice from anyone, or expecting a response from you BESW - just expressing my opinion and inability to articulate it)

BESW

"Line of Enquiry - The final stretch & looking at the system" on Toa Tabletop

Interview: "LINE OF ENQUIRY Kickstarter Interview with Liam Stevens #Zinequest" by Three Skulls Tavern on YouTube

Sean McCoy shared on twitter a draft of " the section on Safety in the Warden's Guide," describing how "safety tool are about hospitality."

Imaginary Worlds podcast "Episode 207: Postcolonial Worlds" The stories we tell about the past can determine the way we understand the present. But what happens when we combine tales of magic and fantasy with some of the most traumatic chapters in history?

DREAD REVOLVER by kay w. Load your Revolver. Travel the Wastes. Meet your Doom

Zedeck Siew wrote a twitter thread about "anxieties a non-Western creator faces when the bulk of their (intended) audience is Western" and ways of engaging with them.

RPG-Talk Jam: Ritual hosted by RPG Talk.

System Fictional Game Jam hosted by David H. K. Jackson, Rhea, W.H. Arthur. Create a game, adventure, setting, module, supplement, character option, house rules or anything else you can think of but they must be written for a fictional primary text.

@AncientSwordRage We aren't obligated to have takes and responses to everything, especially not in public!

I love making my own unique characters, and I also love having pre-made characters available to pick up and play. I especially like characters are that pick-up-and-playable but designed to slowly morph into something unique during play.

AncientSwordRage

11:15

@BESW oh fully agreed there's no obligation but in this instance my lack of ability to articulate is making me want to try to explain/understand more Kazumi Chin's POV

Eddymage

11:57

Hello everyone! After the interaction in this Q&A, I was wondering if it could be of some use having a question that collects all the past tweets in which JC, MM or other designer were explictly contraddicting the rules or being wrong. I tihnk that it may be useful (expecially for new users) provinding examples in which these tweets are not completely realiable, beside the SAC quote.

Or will be the answer too much opinion-based?

Someone_Evil

Too broad seems more like the first hurdle

NautArch

And what's the real question? Do the designers of 5e contradict themselves on social media?

Eddymage

@Someone_Evil You mean that there are too many tweets to search and analyse?

Someone_Evil

The space of twitter being wrong about something is unbounded

7

Eddymage

@NautArch I imagined something like "what are the times that the game designers were actually wrong in interpreting the rules?"

NautArch

12:04

The problem is, many people like knowing the tweets, but the tweets themselves aren't useful support for a strong answer here.

@Eddymage Who is to say they were 'wrong'? I mean, they're the designers. What they wanted, what we have, and what they think may all be separate items.

Eddymage

but before trying to write down the question I wanted to ask opinion here, since it sounded to me too close to be opinion-based

NautArch

I think it's more of a comment about the dangers of leaning too heavily on their commentary.

At least for D&D (may not be an issue for other designers/systems.)

Someone_Evil

In part as a lot of folks don't care for their tweets (or think as highly of them)

Matthieu

@Eddymage Maybe something like "Are tweets from game designers reliable for interpreting the rulebooks?". You could explain answers that go something like "No, because :insert example tweets:"

Eddymage

@NautArch Several times I've read here on RPG.SE that some times JC contradicted himself in commeintg the same rule in different tweets

Matthieu

12:06

Those examples are not opinion-based, since they would be based on those clear wrong readings you mention are looking for.

Someone_Evil

I'd still point out that this seems like a question asked to push an agenda/playstyle/mindset, not really and actual problem

Eddymage

@Matthieu Mmm, I think that in this case the right answer will be "no, because the sage advice compendium (which reports the official rulings) says so"

Matthieu

Good point

NautArch

@Matthieu That definitely seems opinion-based.

Someone_Evil

@Eddymage And I think we kinda have that Q&A already

Eddymage

12:08

@Someone_Evil True, there is no problem here, I thought just to a kind-of-list answer

Matthieu

@NautArch Is it opinion-based to take a tweet and compare it to existing rules or another tweet to show a contradiction?

NautArch

@Eddymage Asking what to do when the COmpendium doesn't match the rules might be an interesting question, but again I think it's opinion-based.

Eddymage

@Someone_Evil Really? I did not find it

Someone_Evil

54

Q: With the 2019 Sage Advice Compendium release, are Jeremy Crawford's tweets considered to be "official rulings"?

The 2019 Sage Advice Compendium has been released. Previously, the SAC has indicated that Jeremy Crawford's tweets were considered to be official rulings. Is this still true?

dnd-5e wizards-of-the-coast sage-advice

NautArch

@Matthieu Have you read the Q&As on this stack? Yes, we'd definitely make it opinion-based :P

Someone_Evil

12:08

And while searching I found:

92

Q: Why do Crawford's tweets seem to be treated on par with the actual rules?

I keep running into quoted tweets from this 'Jeremy Crawford' guy in 5e answers. My understanding is he's sort of in charge of the edition, like James Jacobs with Pathfinder. It makes sense that his opinion has a lot of weight, but people seem to take his tweets as sacrosanct-- using them to de...

dnd-5e wizards-of-the-coast sage-advice

NautArch

^that's a good one to link to in comments for someone.

Matthieu

@NautArch I think I need to refresh my memory on those, because in my mind it's doing simple math : source 1 says yes, source 2 says no, conclusion there is an issue here.

Point out the issue, objectivity 100%

I'll go check out those Q&As once more, I'm probably missing something

Eddymage

@Someone_Evil It is not what I had in mind, but actually the second link is very useful: it does not provide any example (at a first glance, I have to read it carefully), but provides a lot of explanation

it could be linked together with the SAC quote

thanks for the links!

Someone_Evil

The linked questions on that Q&A might include some examples (eg. cases where that Q&A has been linked on other question because it was relevant)

NautArch

@Matthieu I'm just saying that we all have the power to read something a different away and make a valid argument for it.

But seriously, if you're reading anyone anywhere and your first thought is "They are always right" and not being skeptical, then that's an issue that should be worked on first personally.

Matthieu

12:18

@NautArch do you mean that it's easier to reach those subjective interpretation when using this content, rather than something like the written rules for example? I'm having trouble understanding your point, since this phrase could apply to just about every question on this website.

@NautArch Fair point. Unaware people would usually put blind faith into what the devs say, since they did create the game itself, but it's true that this shouldn't be taken as true just because of that.

NautArch

@Matthieu Even aware people do, too. The authority figure looms large in all our lives.

Matthieu

@NautArch Oh yeah, I mostly meant "unaware" as "not aware that dev tweets don't dictate actual rules", but I agree

Thomas Markov

12:34

@NautArch To be fair, I wouldn't blame someone for thinking I'm always right. I can be really convincing, even when I'm wrong.

2

Regarding Jeremy Crawford tweets, the trouble for me is when an answer relies on them for support. An answer that says "JC tweeted [ruling], and here's the reason that ruling is correct [support from rules analysis]" is a perfectly good answer, generally speaking.

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov Right, it could be an ancillary support, but the answer should be supported without it.

In my perfect world, that is.

Thomas Markov

@NautArch For example:

21

A: Can I use Fabricate and a horse to create burger patties and/or sausages?

Probably, if you humanely euthanize the horse first. The fabricate spell calls for “raw materials”. A living horse is not raw materials. The spell description states: Creatures or magic items can't be created or transmuted by this spell. So while the horse is alive, it is a creature, and cannot...

Someone_Evil

I've never heard about horse burgers before

NautArch

@Someone_Evil If there's meat, it's got a burger.

Thomas Markov

@NautArch doesn't mean it's good.

NautArch

12:46

@ThomasMarkov I've never had horse. But I've had camel and it was tasty.

Someone_Evil

I'm not contesting the notion. I've had moose burger before, for instance. Just not heard of horse being used for anything other than cured sausage (and I suppose lasagna)

NautArch

@Someone_Evil I remember growing up with jokes(?) that mcdonalds and other chains used horsemeat.

Someone_Evil

In this case the sausage being horse is both tradition and fact, and the lasagna is in reference to a UK scandal some years back

Thomas Markov

13:17

So I just wrote an answer that seemed abundantly obvious, but none of the other answers even mentioned the rule

0

A: Can you affect multiple targets with multiple Warding Bond casts?

No. The "Combining Magical Effects" rule limits you to one active warding bond. The "Combining Magical Effects" rule states: The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don’t combine, however. Instead...

Please review and tell me if Ive missed something obvious.

And related to our earlier conversation, my answer there and Crawford's tweet about the question give a good example of Crawford just being totally wrong.

Matthieu

@ThomasMarkov seems valid to me. I guess a point against that could be that the question is whether the effect can be applied to multiple people at the same time, and even if some effects are suppressed on you, they wouldn't be suppressed on the multiple allies you targetted.

But outside of that issue, the rule is definitely relevant, at least for the caster.

Now that I think about it, I wonder how the spell would act if it was suppressed only on one of the two "targets".

As in, would it be suppressed in its entirety, or would some of its effects still trigger.

For something that affects all targets regardless of what happens to each of them, like a group bless effect or such, it seems obvious, but for an effect that depends on the other targets of the spell, the answer isn't that obvious to me.

Thomas Markov

@Matthieu Part of the effect is the connection to the caster.

Matthieu

Oh that's a good point.

Thomas Markov

Since multiple spells cannot combine for the caster, they cannot have multiple connections.

No connection, and none of the spell's other effects work either.

Matthieu

I'm guessing that if the dominant effect was discarded, the suppressed one would become available again though, right?

In other words, here's a scenario

Assuming you have one caster that has cast Warding bond on two different allies, the most recent one is active and the other one is suppressed

The ally affected by the most recent one removes their ring, thus ending the spell. The older cast should then resume and the connection work properly, correct?

(of course that's assuming that the caster isn't a target of their own spell, which would prevent this situation from happening at all)

Thomas Markov

13:33

@Matthieu The original caster is definitely a target of the spell.

Matthieu

@ThomasMarkov the text doesn't seem to make it obvious, since it mentions "creates a mystic connection between you and the target until the spell ends". Singular target and you, which is not "the" target. But I'm probably reading too deep into it.

Unrelated, but what's up with the wave of downvotes on this question?

-2

Q: Do I and the target have to wear the platinum rings at casting time of Warding Bond?

The material components of Warding Bond are (emphasis mine) *- (a pair of platinum rings worth at least 50 gp each, which you and the target must wear for the duration) Since the description clearly states that the two creatures must wear such rings for the duration, and the duration begins whe...

dnd-5e spells spell-components

Look away for 10 mins and it's suddenly gone from +1 to -2

Thomas Markov

@Matthieu I downvoted it because it asks about an extremely granular and impractical reading of the rules. The spell is obviously supposed to work, so just cast the spell and put your rings on and move on. There is no reason at all to worry about the precise timing of when the casting begins and ends, when you put your rings on, and when the caster holds the material components. Just do the spell move along.

Matthieu

13:53

Make sense

NautArch

14:34

And now I want to homebrew this.

Could be the weapon of choice for flavortown monk.

Glazius

Yes, it's a fine sword. finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Luso_Clemens?file=Luso.jpg

AncientSwordRage

@NautArch [ID: a screenshot of a blog post by trickstertime with the message 'Alright, hear me out' with an image of the definition of a sword, followed by a pizza cutter with a circular blade, and written below as a list 'Hilt?', 'Guard?', 'Used for cutting?' and 'Infinitely long blade?' each followed by the filled checkbox emoji]

@Glazius do they fight Pizzas?

Glazius

@AncientSwordRage Brother, they fight everything.

AncientSwordRage

@Glazius So yes :D

Glazius

after FFTA's existential nightmare, FFTA2 was just like "oh hey you got sucked into the magic book, now you've got a copy of the magic book that's empty I guess you gotta go have adventures to fill it up to go home when your story's over"

AncientSwordRage

14:40

that's a cool premise

Someone_Evil

14:56

@NautArch eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Ghiza%27s+Wheel

Eddymage

15:36

@ThomasMarkov Ok, understood: I wrote the question and prepared a selfanswer, which concluded that the spell does not require to wear the rings at casting, but the mechanics do.

It is actually the same given by @Matthieu

I never thought about it, but I started reasoning about this since the discussion on Warding Bond with @nonymus, who was talking about reading such spell, duration and so on

Thomas Markov

@Eddymage I think there is a better question there that focuses more of the action economy of the spell mid combat. Out of combat the question doesnt matter at all. But in combat the action economy might be weird if youre trying to stick to RAW for the purposes of combat.

Eddymage

@ThomasMarkov You think that the question could be more meaningful if it refers to action economy in fights?

@Matthieu I would appreciate if others may provide some feedback, it did not look so bad to me

Thomas Markov

Personally, yes, because that's when the granular details of the question have any stakes at all. If you and your friend are outside of combat the timing just doesn't matter (and this is when the spell will usually be cast). It is in combat that the details your question asks about actually matter.

NautArch

This is also the line where theory problems and practical problems cross. When a theory-question comes up that doesn't have a clear practical problem, it often receives downvotes.

Eddymage

@NautArch I don't see it particualrly as a theory problem, but I agree with @ThomasMarkov that outside of combat most DMs would say "ok, you did not specify it, but I assume that both of you are wearing the rings, right?"

Thomas Markov

15:48

@Eddymage I had written an answer, but didnt post it because I didnt want to address the in-combat action economy issues. The jist of it was "your character knows how to cast the spell, and the timing typically doesnt matter. So just narrate it however you like".

Eddymage

@ThomasMarkov I will try to depict a plausbile scenario in which this detail becomes important. To be fully honest, at my table noone has never used WB, so I will try to describe a situation

Thomas Markov

@Eddymage I mean, if we're trying to contrive of a situation to describe the interaction, isn't this a theory problem?

"not a theory problem" would be "last night I tried to cast warding bond on Eddymage, and our DM NautArch got all bent out of shape about the action economy of putting rings on and manipulating spell components in combat. How exactly does the action economy work if I am standing next to an ally, and attempt to cast warding bond on them on my turn, while I am holding both rings?"

If this actually happened to you, you can include details about what ruling DM NautArch provided, what reasoning he gave for that, and other relevant details about table discussion, how the other players felt about the ruling, etc.

Eddymage

@ThomasMarkov OK, I see you point. I thought that in this case is just an application of the rules, independent on being in combat or not, but that's fine, I'll come up with someting reliable

Thomas Markov

To be clear, I have asked plenty of theoretical questions myself. There’s nothing inherently wrong with theoretical questions. I just think this question in particular could benefit from some more context, Because given that the spells primary use case is out of combat, it isn’t immediately clear why you’re having a problem.

Eddymage

16:13

Done, see if it is good enough. I have to take the public transport, I can modify it later if something more is needed to be a more suitable questio nofr the stack

@Matthieu I tried to be the most general possible, in order to don't make you change (too much) your answer

Thomas Markov

17:08

@Eddymage That revision actually does a really good job of making it clear what you're asking and why. +2.

Hot RPG Questions

17:35

2

Q: Do I and the target have to wear the platinum rings at casting time of Warding Bond?

The material components of Warding Bond are (emphasis mine) *- (a pair of platinum rings worth at least 50 gp each, which you and the target must wear for the duration) Since the description clearly states that the two creatures must wear such rings for the duration, and the duration begins whe...

dnd-5e spells spell-components

KorvinStarmast

18:50

@AncientSwordRage yes, I think that will happen.

KorvinStarmast

19:02

@Someone_Evil horsemeat is fine, and I think McDonalds used to use it in their burgers some decades ago

Someone_Evil

@KorvinStarmast My sole point was that I hadn't heard of horse burgers specifically, no objection to horsemeat itself

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch best horse I had was 'alla spada' in Italy, near Vicenza.

@Someone_Evil McD's got caught up in some rather vacuous hate campaigns from the animal rights groups; I think that's when the horse meat went away, but I am reaching back some decades in memory so may have it confused with something else.

NautArch

19:22

Til that when the McDonalds McLean deluxe was a thing, I remembered everyone talking about the use of seaweed as filler in it instead of fat.

Turns out they just used carrageenan (which is from seaweed.)

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