TRPG General Chat

V2Blast

00:01

Yeah... I'm skeptical it'll be done well, but I'll give it a chance. It's a hard series to adapt.

BESW

Aye, and while I don't think it needs the Starship Troopers treatment where the theme and message are completely changed, it does need more than just "adapting material to a new medium" changes. The source material doesn't communicate its themes and messages effectively, and in some fundamental ways it actively undermines its own goals.

V2Blast

I've never actually read the original series, to be fair... though I've read Wikipedia pages. I first got into the franchise via the computer game Dune 2000 (an RTS by Westwood Studios)

BESW

I think my first exposure to the franchise was the 1992 Dune video game (the CD port with full voice acting and clips from the Lynch film).

Read the series in early college.

I think Herbert succeeded too well at making his books a stealthy takedown of contemporary popular scifi ethics, and wound up with satire indistinguishable from what it is satirising.

BESW

00:27

(By his own account, he thought that if he wrote a "space fascism is bad, actually" novel it wouldn't get any traction and nobody would be convinced by it; so he had to write a novel tricking readers into thinking he's pro-space-fascism, and then expose the real theme in the sequels. This... may not have worked as well as he'd hoped, for a variety of reasons.)

V2Blast

00:37

@BESW Ah, ok

BESW

One thing I'm hopeful about with the new film, is that based on the trailer maybe they're giving more priority to the Fremen perspective.

NautArch

00:49

@V2Blast I couldn't get through the full series :(

But last time I tried, I think I was 15 or so.

V2Blast

@BESW Apparently the Dune II video game by Westwood Studios also came out the same year - I know Dune 2000 (released in 1998, also by Westwood Studios) was a remake of that game. Wikipedia describes Dune II as follows:

> Often considered to be the first "mainstream modern real-time strategy game", Dune II established many conventions of the genre. Only loosely connected to the plot of the novels or films, the game pits three interplanetary houses — the Atreides, the Harkonnens, and the Ordos — against each other for control of the planet Arrakis and its valuable spice, all while fending off the destructive natural forces of the harsh desert planet itself.

Hot RPG Questions

5

Q: Rotate between multiple Rods of the Pact Keeper?

I know you can't attune to 2 items of the same name. This question is more about the other effect of Rod of the Pact Keeper that lets you restore a spell slot once per long rest. If I have 2 Rods of the Pact Keeper, could I cast 2 buff spells, use my Rod of the Pact Keeper to recover a spell slot...

V2Blast

I know Dune 2000 had live-action cutscenes, which was pretty unique at the time

Though I barely remember what little lore there was... The Wikipedia quote above basically summarizes all I remember of it :P

BESW

@V2Blast I rather enjoy FMV, it marked a lot of very interesting experimentation and branching-out in the medium.

V2Blast

Yeah, some games definitely used it better than others

BESW

00:59

Myst, of course, was a major keystone in the genre.

I always thought JP3 should get more credit as a maturation of the Myst concept.

And it's nice to see creators like Remedy still embracing it not just as a branding gimmick but as a really powerful tool.

Could somebody please poke around my itch.io page and tell me what games you see associated with me? There's a... thing... that I'm trying to avoid endorsing.

I'm pretty sure it's off my front page but I don't know if it'll appear somewhere else in the interface.

nitsua60

01:46

@Ben Elated. I'm a bad person to ask, though, because I'll spend money on it no matter what. If it's good, I want to reward it. And if it's bad, I want to send the signal to moviemakers that there's an incentive to keep trying.

Ben

Well, at the very least I like the positivity :D

nitsua60

@BESW Hounds of God, Walkies with Grim, Puppy Day, Goblin Court, Traveling Librarians, Toward Better Tables.

Even knowing what Goblin Court is (and liking it), I find myself wanting Goblin Court to be a goblin version of Night Court.

BESW

Thank you!

There doesn't seem to be any other place to see a list of games associated with me, does there?

Ben

02:03

just did a quick google for "besw games". The only links outside of here, itch.io and twitter are all broken

BESW

Heh.

There's a couple itch.io games I collaborated on a while back, which I do not want to endorse now because of things coming to light about a collaborator.

(well, "coming to light." I distanced myself from them shortly after the collabs but just want to double-check now)

Hot RPG Questions

8

Q: Spread out AC or consolidate?

Imagine a Party with 4 characters. Each one has different AC: 14 AC/48 HP (squishy caster) 15 AC/50 HP 16 AC/50 HP 17 AC/54 HP (the tank) The Party picks up a Ring of Protection +1. Who "should" get it for Party survivability? The squishy caster to even things out? The tank to make them tankie...

dnd-5e magic-items armor-class party tactics

KorvinStarmast

02:26

@nitsua60 did you send me that discord ping?

I am watching Secrets of Blackmoor, and it's reviving some deep memory of miniatures games I played as a teenager

Best line so far was Arneson's dad's observation of what they were doing in the basement: "Those guys are nuts" 😛

Hot RPG Questions

07:35

8

Q: How can I limit crafting and material-searching without limiting player agency?

I'm a new GM. Several of my PCs really enjoy crafting/potion-making/resource-farming and have builds that are well-suited to it. In the past I wanted to reward their enthusiasm for searching for new materials and cool uses for them, so I supplied a lot of interesting materials on the map and in t...

dnd-5e gm-techniques special-materials player-agency resource-consumption

AncientSwordRage

10:05

@Ben I feel like I should read at least one of the books first

BESW

@AncientSwordRage The trick, as I said above, is that the first book is even more incomplete than most "first of a trilogy" novels, because it's setting up its anti-fascist message by first pretending to make a case for fascism which the later books take apart.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW I caught that but I only just pieced together that means I either need to read two of the series or I need to pick the right book

BESW

10:21

I kinda feel like the best version of a screen production of Dune would involve a team of Arab creators, and the second-best version would be led by Paul Verhoeven.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW I'd watch either of them

BESW

The first book is about the rise of a prophesied hero who will save civilization and usher in a golden age. It's classic Great Man Theory, Hero's Journey, epic fantasy stuff: the Return of the Divinely Anointed King who Heals The Land.

But it's a trick, engineered by societal puppetmasters on a scale of generations, and the next three books are dedicated to ripping apart and exposing the folly of such things in principle: not just that this particular instance is a false promise, but that all such narratives are empty and doomed. Beware heroes, for their judgement will come to supplant your own and their human failings will echo across civilizations.

The Fisher King will be trapped in his own golden cage, and while the land might temporarily prosper it will inevitably wither and decay under his unquestionable errors.

AncientSwordRage

10:41

@BESW I've picked up inklings of that from various wikipedia read throughs

@BESW and I've read that TV Tropes page

AncientSwordRage

12:03

Is this question about selling or not selling?

It seems like the asker is trying to ask about if they can resell the item because they can't re-use it

but the reason for doing so is limitation that I think is meant to stop you using the same jewel at the same time for a different instance of the spell

Thomas Markov

we have a question about gem to gem dust values

help me ifnd it if you got a second

nvm i found it

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov I remember that one

KorvinStarmast

I hate to say this, but if one is at a level where one can cast that spell, and one cannot afford that gem, one has been doing it wrong. (Or, one has spent all of their money on "carousing" in that game world's equivalent to Las Vegas). Too bad JCraw and the gang could not be bothered to write "which the spell consumes" as they finished the spell description; editing and proofreading fail.

Thomas Markov

"The sapphire is consumed when the spell ends" would have been so much better.

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov Yeah, but asking them to write a complete sentence might be a bridge too far. 😛

Trish

12:18

@KorvinStarmast Apparently Gygax was the better game developer, because he had the excuse of inventing his stuff in part on dope. Unlike the modern staff.

Thomas Markov

@KorvinStarmast "A Bridge too Far" seems like a good name for a spell.

But I dont know what it should do.

KorvinStarmast

@Trish He was good as a game publisher, that's for sure, since he figured out how to get stuff into print. When you are an indie, which TSR was at the time, that's half the battle.

As I watch through the Secrets of Blackmoor, I recognize some of those figures from napoleonics games we played in college, and medieval minis I played in High School and college. As I listen to Dave Wesley explain how Braunstein evolved, as game devs he and Arneson were "let's try this, and play it next week" game devs. That approach I don't think works in a corporate setting like Hasbro/WoTC.

Trish

@KorvinStarmast Iterative desing works best with a small group of core desingers. If your team gets beyond - let's say arbitrarilary 12 - then you need to include lead designers and can't just "bullshit" stuff together till it sounds good. What works at a gametable with 6 people (every player making up stuff as the adventure goes) doesn't work if you need to get cliffnotes to 4 writers that flesh out different areas, 4 GMs that need to test the monsters and a group of 16 playtesters.

KorvinStarmast

@Trish yep, but you also need players who are just players, not designers, or you get "too many cooks spoil the soup" syndrome. My one experience in play testing a game one of my college chums was creating (space game, not fantasy) was similar to what you describe. If the size of the group gets too big, the process can corrupt quickly.

I have researched his name on the internet quite a few times (he was two years ahead of me, math major) and never found the game so I am guessing that he never did get it published/finished.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov consumed is too vague a word for me? Like I'd assume it means the magical energies are consumed, not that you must ingest the crushed sapphire, or that it's materially consumed

Thomas Markov

12:31

@AncientSwordRage when it comes to spell components "consumed" is a game term, I think.

KorvinStarmast

@AncientSwordRage You get a mirror, a razor blade, and you snort the sapphire dust. That's old school spell components! And then you eat a live carp. 😂

AncientSwordRage

Maybe I'm leaning to much into idea for my system with no name, but then you could tag items as 'depleted', then it still exists but is unusable for magic

@ThomasMarkov we think.... 5e could do it self a favour and be less opaque

@KorvinStarmast that's the kind of thing I'd expect from Usidore the Blue

KorvinStarmast

@Trish I don't think he hit the cocaine until the California years, D&D TV show, which would be the 80's. But that's a guess.

@ThomasMarkov It was the name of a movie about the Arnhem operation in WW II, from the book by Ryan ...

Trish

@KorvinStarmast Each player invents stuff all the time. Like... in a recent L5R round, we encountered some Usagi Samurai. One of the players asked a silly question that was not answered in any sourceook, but another player just made up something about a historical even that sounded nice and the GM said "Ok, roll for that..." and he rolled quite nice, so the GM said "And what you just told was exactly how it happened all those years ago."

But in a playtest setting that is often discouraged, yet player will find places to break the game. Like... There's a door that is literally undestructible unpickable. "What is the wall made from?"

KorvinStarmast

@Trish Yes, Wesley's Barunstein games featured a lot of that.

@Trish In fact, we did that before. The Wall Door Frame Thing. Wow, that takes me back a long time. I think that was a rock to mud scroll someone had found on a previous raid ... he turned the stone around the door frame into mud and we dug it out, and the big, heavy, door fell onto the cleric and nearly killed him.

AncientSwordRage

12:43

@KorvinStarmast DM revenge for being too clever

KorvinStarmast

@AncientSwordRage Oh, no, he rolled even/odd for which way the door would fall.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov I asked it

@KorvinStarmast I mean the fact is was possible at all, unless the cleric decided to stand next to the door

KorvinStarmast

Cleric's figure was right next to the door on the map. Remembering that inches equals feet underground and yards above ground, here's the spell.
Transmute Rock to Mud: The spell takes effect in one turn, turning earth, sand,
and of course, rock to mud. The area affected is up to 30 square inches. Creatures
moving into the mud will become mired, possibly sinking if heavy enough or
losing 90% of movement otherwise, unless able to fly or levitate. The spell can
only be countered by reversing the incantation (requiring a Transmute Rock to

AncientSwordRage

@KorvinStarmast ahhh ok

KorvinStarmast

I also remember getting into intra party disagreements when we found scrolls of a higher level than the MU could cast. Most of us would want to use them 'at just the right time' and the MU was always kvetching that he wanted to copy them into his spell book. To get the reply "but you can't use it yet" ... happened with some frequency.

AncientSwordRage

12:54

good answer @ThomasMarkov

this question reminds me of the Big Mac Index... I'd have answered in reference to that, and different prices for Qurbani if it didn't already ahve plenty of answers

AncientSwordRage

13:58

@Medix2 thanks for adding that tag

Thomas Markov

can you put 500 point bounties on the sme question mltiple times?

Seems so

Medix2

14:14

Yes you can

IIRC, Each successive bounty (by the same user???) must double in size but it caps at 500

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 Cool, cuz Im gonna keep throwing points on Minimans answer to the unconscious short rest question until Im satisfied with the size of the bounty.

Trish

note that you can not distribute the bounty split, unless you disperse the bounty first

Thomas Markov

@Trish I dont know what you mean

I just want to keep rewarding the same answer cuz I have enough rep to be petty with the bounty system

Trish

if one user starts a bounty with 50 and raises it to 100, all those have to go to the same nswer in one go.

So to reward 2 answers, you'd need to bounty twice separately

Thomas Markov

@Trish still dont understand lol

Im also trying to become the most generous bounty giver on the stack

Medix2

14:25

You can raise a bounty??

Someone_Evil

I don't think so. Pretty sure bounties can't be offered on currently bountied questions

Medix2

> You can offer as many bounties on a question as you want. However, only one bounty can be active on a question at a time. Moreover, any user may have at most 3 concurrent bounties at a time.

Note that if you offer several bounties on the same question, you will have to double the amount each time (or more)

You cannot increase a bounty

NautArch

Leftover steak for a steak 'n eggs breakfast? don't mind if I do!

Thomas Markov

wheres the what counts as an attack question

bobble

21

Q: What counts as an attack?

I was looking over the class feature of the 'fiend' patron warlock in 5e. I'm a bit confused on what actions the player needs to take before they can use the 'Hurl Through Hell' ability on an enemy. The PHB states: Starting at 14th level, when you hit a creature with an attack, you can use th...

dnd-5e attack

Thomas Markov

14:30

found it, thanks bobble

Fun fact, the rules of 5e contain a minimum damage rule, except JC wrote in the SAC that there is no minimum damage rule. Thanks JC!

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov I don't think the telekinetic is a good dupe

Someone_Evil

You mean a min of 0, right?

Medix2

Wow, i cannot type

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 Wow, that's...wow

Someone_Evil

@Medix2 I was about to ask whether you were ok

Medix2

14:36

But my reasoning is that the answer there states that grapples and shoves are attacks, and telekinetic is a shove, it's just... not the specific kind of shove that counts as an attack

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 Then it needs to be edited, I can see OP's problem being not-a-dupe, but the XY Problem its written as is technically a dupe

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov Reinforces my whole "ignore JC" mindset

Medix2

Welp, it got deleted

Someone_Evil

Ah, they found that big red delete button...

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 Then improve the answer on the what is an attack question

Medix2

14:38

@NautArch I do like that he's at least consistent when talking about spell targets XD

G. Moylan

@NautArch 🦀🦀🦀 Ignore JC. JC is powerless. 🦀🦀🦀

NautArch

@G.Moylan Never hoid of 'im.

AncientSwordRage

15:16

@ThomasMarkov Raj's answer quotes only from the basic rules...

rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/73522/…

Thomas Markov

@AncientSwordRage yes

AncientSwordRage

did that comment get deleted?

KorvinStarmast

@Medix2 It's a special kind of attack, so it's a case of "specific beats general"

SmokeDetector

15:32

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer (262): Is there any spell to bring back a disintegrated character? by Janae Willis on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose @ThomasMarkov)

Akixkisu

"The only reasonable conclusion we can draw" by wonky conjecture is quite the claim. That one made me chuckle - thanks for amusing me.

G. Moylan

15:53

I feel bad for the kind of people that fall for the things Smokey catches. I feel bad for whatever situation they're in that they think they're willing to turn to that kind of "help," and I feel bad that there are people out there trying to prey on folks who are already in a bad spot. I wish people would just let other people be

KorvinStarmast

@G.Moylan I feel bad that there are people out there trying to prey on folks who are already in a bad spot Since you aren't doing that, why do you feel bad? There have been people tricking others for a long, long time. Nothing new under the sun. I am glad Smokey catches a lot of that.

G. Moylan

@KorvinStarmast I know it's not new and it generally doesn't bother me, it's just sad that people prey on desperate people. If you're going to prey on someone/something, at least go for the megarich or megacorps or something like that :P

KorvinStarmast

@G.Moylan Like Bernie Madoff did? Is that OK? (I don't like fraudsters at any level)

G. Moylan

That part was mostly a joke, and those folks weren't "mega-rich". I'm not really looking to get into an argument about it, I was more remarking that Smokey seems to find the same old tired schemes, targeted at superstitious, desperate people, and that it's unfortunate that that's what seems to work enough that the scammers keep that up

so I do feel bad for the people targeted by those schemes and that they're clearly successful enough got the scammers to keep doing it

but there's nothing I can do about it

c'est la vie

Thomas Markov

@Akixkisu Im confused.

Why is my answer amusing to you?

Akixkisu

16:10

@ThomasMarkov relating to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/73522/… I never understand why you think that taking 0 dmg while concentrating doesn't inflict a concentration saving throw "mechanically equivalent to not dealing damage"

Thomas Markov

This "The only reasonable conclusion we can draw" is a quote from my answer about consuming material components, are you not referring to that answer?

Akixkisu

@ThomasMarkov the phrasing utters so much certainty which doesn't seem necessary at all. It invokes an image of one of my favourite quotes, see rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/9758/…

I didn't see your message, so they are out of order.

Thomas Markov

@Akixkisu I don't find your initial comment particularly friendly.

GcL

Taking 0 damage is still taking damage? Is that like getting paid $0 is still getting paid?

Thomas Markov

16:25

@GcL Fortunately Jeremy Crawford was not involved with drafting any labor laws.

Akixkisu

@GcL the latter is much more devastating.

GcL

@Akixkisu You'd be surprised about the conclusions I can draw! Most of them look like little gremlins. Sometimes, if I'm using water color, they look like bumble bees.

@ThomasMarkov Saying receiving 0 of something still counts as receiving something seems to be a misunderstanding of 0.

I think JC might be confused.

Akixkisu

@GcL I'm quite envious, even with water colours I draw gremlins.

Thomas Markov

@GcL That's an ice cold take if I've ever seen one.

GcL

@ThomasMarkov That can't be true, because it would mean I'm cooler than cool.

Akixkisu

16:30

@GcL ah, that is why they call it magic :)

GcL

@Akixkisu I concur. A fungible manipulable nothing is a kind of magic. Originally Sumerian magic? I feel a historical rabbit hole must be around here somewhere...

Akixkisu

@GcL someone funnier than me would make a joke about cuneiform tablets which confuse witchcraft and liminal magic.

GcL

Found a fluffy rabbit hole for that history. Apparently, ancient India was where zero was used as a number. Sumerian and Mayan had a concept of placeholder for a place where a number would be, apparently.

Akixkisu

@GcL if you are bored what Nāgārjuna has to say about 0 is an interesting read.

GcL

16:45

I'm not bored. I'm procrastinating. :-)

Akixkisu

Hajime Nakamura offers an interesting interpretation in that regard about the connection between the concept of sunyata and the mathematical zero.

NautArch

17:16

@Someone_Evil I think you forgot a not in this comment

Someone_Evil

@NautArch That rather changed the message didn't it

NautArch

@Someone_Evil lil bit.

Trish

@Someone_Evil I fail to see the difference between "let's not assasinate tyrants" and "let's assasinate not tyrants" - either case is bad ;)

Thomas Markov

@Trish let tyrants assassinate us?

Someone_Evil

In this case it would've been "let's assassinate tyrants", though there's a flip to examples here

Trish

17:21

@ThomasMarkov no, the wording is deliberate: both "don't kill tyrants" and "kill random people" are bad. "kill tyrants" is totally acceptable and wanted here.

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov "let tyrants assassinate not us" isn't great either

NautArch

@Someone_Evil Maybe not, but a fairly common worldview.

GcL

Let's try ants.

NautArch

@GcL That's my puppy's motto.

Someone_Evil

How do you assassinate someone with ants?

I suppose that should be using ants

Thomas Markov

17:34

I've gone with leave closed here.

GcL

18:12

@ThomasMarkov It's a funny question. Not well suited for here. I like the idea, they got wish a long time ago, and not only did they DM hose them on their wording, but they lost the ability to ever cast it again.

It matches up with the saying, "Once wished, twice shy"

KorvinStarmast

@GcL no, it isn't.

@GcL If you can't divide by it, is it a number? Math question, I guess.

@Someone_Evil a jar of honey and an ant hill and a means to restrain the victim. See various Amerind (reported) dispositions of some of their enemies; in D&D it would go faster with giant ants and more honey.

GcL

@KorvinStarmast Are you asking if 0 is a number? Yes. The result of dividing by zero is not a number though. I wonder if there's a good Numberphile or Mathologer or Stand Up Maths about that though.

KorvinStarmast

18:54

@GcL Obviously, it has to be a number if it is on the back of jerseys on your favorite sports team. Otherwise number 10, number 20 on your club's soccer team would have no jersey number, right? 😋

GcL

@KorvinStarmast Could just use double slash. Works for cuneiform and jerseys! "1//"

Numberphile delivers about problems with 0. And a TED ED video about defining a number for 1/0.

Hot RPG Questions

19:21

2

Q: Can the sapphire crushed in Drawmij's instant summons be mended and sold for the original price?

The spell Drawmij's Instant Summons states (emphasis mine) [...] Components: V, S, M (a sapphire worth 1,000 gp) Duration: Until dispelled You touch an object weighing 10 pounds or less whose longest dimension is 6 feet or less. The spell leaves an invisible mark on its surface and invisibly in...

dnd-5e spellcasting spell-components

GcL

20:06

Does anyone have a scan or copy of the 1975 print of Dungeon's & Dragons?

Thomas Markov

I just got an apple pie from Popeye's and it has a comedic amount of cinnamon sugar on it.

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov The real question is what sides did you get?

Thomas Markov

@NautArch I just got a pie.

NautArch

This neutral mummy lord question is a sticky wicket.

Medix2

20:28

Hub, mods look different in Meta now

Someone_Evil

20:45

18

Q: New Staff and Mod Labels on Meta Sites and MSE

In response to the request to Add an immediately visible indication that a user is a staff member or an employee of SE, we recently announced a new feature on Meta sites and MSE (which is live as of now): Mod diamonds are replaced by the new Mod badge (which includes a diamond). These badges wi...

discussion design moderators display-names stack-exchange-team

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 mobile view whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Ewwwwww it looks gross on regular view

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov Because I'm on my phone?

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 The desktop views are optimized for mobile mate

Medix2

Very much not on my phone

Thomas Markov

Really?

Mobile view on iOS safari is a trainwreck, and desktop view is quite good.

Medix2

20:49

Thomas Markov

Also go upvote this answer cuz the new mod and staff badges look terrible.

Medix2

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 I mean the main site, not chat. Desktop view doesnt work in chat for me either.

Maybe there's something in your settings?

Does mine look agreeable to you?

Medix2

Yours looks like my mobile screenshot I posted?

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 Yeah but like better

Ive used both extensively and they look similar, but to me they use much differently, with the desktop view (shown above) being far more user friendly

Medix2

20:52

Guess our devices just have very different versions of the desktop and mobile views

Thomas Markov

Weird.

I also have the app so I can get phone notifications

One time smokey woke me up at like 3 am and I flagged and deleted the post, but I didnt remember doing it in the morning. Only knew cuz I saw that I had done it that morning.

Hot RPG Questions

2

Q: What does it mean for a spell component to be consumed?

When the body of spell's description explicitly says a component is 'consumed' or it is implied by the material components description, what exactly happens to that component? In essence what does 'consumed' mean as a game term? The closest I've come to an explanation from DND Beyond is this from...

dnd-5e spell-components terminology

GcL

21:40

@AncientSwordRage I'm having trouble thinking of vernacular uses of "consumed" where the material being referenced is still intact afterwards.

Fuel, food, time, effort, and electricity are the most common examples that come to mind. All of those are no longer extant when we talk about them being consumed.

The one context I can think of doesn't relate to material goods. Media, like books, and information can be consumed without being destroyed, but when used in that sense, we're not talking about tangible materials. That's consuming ideas... which is an entirely different thing than consuming material goods.

KorvinStarmast

22:18

@GcL what are you referring to? A picture of three brown books?

@ThomasMarkov updoot duly executed and thanks for the heads up. 😮

GcL

@KorvinStarmast Yeah. I realized I only have a scan of the 1979 version, and it's likely the physical copy I could go retrieve is the same printing.

KorvinStarmast

@GcL which book? there were three of them and Greyhawk by that point

GcL

@KorvinStarmast All or any would work.

KorvinStarmast

@GcL my pdfs of those books are not here, but I can get my own books, are you trying to scan the whole thing or the cover art?

GcL

I'm actually looking for the original Balrog reference that was subsequently removed.

in regards to this comment

AncientSwordRage

23:02

@GcL I think I associate material components to the magic in them being consumed much more than is intended by the games wording

GcL

@AncientSwordRage What "magic in them" ?

Medix2

Yeah I think that is the crux, gems and the like don't have any magic inherent to them in 5e

AncientSwordRage

The one I am quickly realising was imagined by me

KorvinStarmast

@GcL I think that's in Eldritch Wizardry, let me check.

Medix2

I honestly have no idea how older D&D lore tries to explain why gems, of all things, are used for spells

AncientSwordRage

23:03

This is what I have been imagining

GcL

In this illustration, the fangy thing is the spell or the spell caster?

AncientSwordRage

Except a wizard instead if Marceline vampire queen, and a ruby gem not a ruby red strawb'

KorvinStarmast

@Medix2 They didn't have to explain why. They just did it.

Medix2

It's also worth noting that if using a gem did remove some sort of magical property we would have expected there to be two different items that can be sold: Gem and Gem (used)

KorvinStarmast

This whole demand for canon is a sick trend that I trace to WoTC era stuff ... but that's one perspective.

Medix2

23:05

@KorvinStarmast They don't have to, but they still can

AncientSwordRage

@Medix2 see my comment on TM's answer

GcL

@KorvinStarmast I don't like the addition of cannons either. Just use the tried and true "I cast fireball"

KorvinStarmast

@Medix2 How many kids have you raised?

Medix2

I'm just gonna step away

GcL

@KorvinStarmast Depends on how heavy they are. Usually I can get one in each arm, but sometimes they're squirmy!

KorvinStarmast

23:06

@Medix2 I ask that due to the "why" question. If you've raised kids, I think you'll get the reference. 😉

@GcL ten reps?

GcL

@KorvinStarmast None of the children I've lifted have gone on to politics thankfully.

KorvinStarmast

@GcL yet! there's always hope for them during the next election! 😁

Medix2

@KorvinStarmast Ah I missed the intent there, quite poorly, and am sorry to have assumed such a thing

GcL

No. They've got brain cells that connect, so very little chance of being elected.

KorvinStarmast

@Medix2 No worries, not my wittiest reply ever, sorry, I can see how the tone may have come across as being wrong

bobble

23:10

@KorvinStarmast I'm told my particular favorite question was "What's that?", applied liberally to every thing or word that came into my vicinity.

GcL

@Medix2 Intent is a very dodgy fellow. Dodges, ducks, dives, dips, and dodges! Very difficult to hit a wrench let alone a ball.

KorvinStarmast

@GcL I have the book out, taking a pick with camera, give me a minute

@bobble yep

@GcL 1976, TSR, Eldritch Wizardry, First Printing, Page IV. Demon, Type VI(Balrog)

bobble

I see pokey thingies

KorvinStarmast

It looks like he's using a feather duster to clean his private parts, which always struck me as strange.

GcL

All those early illustrations were low quality. Thanks.

KorvinStarmast

23:17

They sufficed. We didn't have the internet, and RPGs were on a tight budget. 😁 The art eventually got better.

off to my wednesday game I go, and again, @Medix2 sorry that came across all sideways.

BESW

ThinkingDM has a very apt explanation on twitter for why "I've been playing D&D for decades and never had [problem]" is so often a self-defeating anecdote.

Someone_Evil

Survivorship bias I believe is the general term

BESW

(For those unfamiliar, the image is one of the most famous examples of survivorship bias.)

Someone_Evil

Ah, well, yes. I'll be in my corner if anyone needs me

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