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12:37 AM
@KorvinStarmast apropos of nothing, I've had a little game-related thing bubbling in the back of my mind that makes me think of you. Should I drop a note in Discord?
1:32 AM
Congratulations to the Philippines on their first Olympic gold medal (ever)!
2:13 AM
@V2Blast I went "all in" on the 13th Age bundle. I've seen people here talking it up, and the full bundle of PDFs cost less than a single physical book. So I figured, why not.
1 hour later…
3:26 AM
@Adeptus Nice. I did the same :)
2 hours later…
5:13 AM
@nitsua60 please do, just saw this. Yes, go ahead
5:42 AM
Q: To what extent is a Dragonborn of Bahamut considered a dragon?

WatsonIn the Races of the Dragon book it says: Dragonborn Racial Traits [RotD, pg.8] Humanoid (dragonblood): Dragonborn are humanoids with the dragonblood subtype and any other subtypes they had before undergoing the Rite of Rebirth. For all effects related to race, a dragonborn is considered a drago...

3 hours later…
8:25 AM
@Adeptus That's quite the story
1 hour later…
9:41 AM
@trogdor in most professional kitchens they'll touch food, because they're also constantly washing their hands
2 hours later…
11:34 AM
@NautArch It helps a lot to communicate that it would interrupt concentration before players make their choice. In an organised game, I wouldn't rule it as interrupting concentration but at a home table? Sure, why not - it seems like an interesting way to increase stake by limiting resources.
11:52 AM
@doppelgreener I would ask myself - what happens if I act against the guideline? E. g. someone copies a text from a pirated source that has specific errors, and I can determine that source due to those errors (this happened recently), and I can thus determine the system, but someone else thinks that they could have come up with those errors individually and thus it would not signify the system.
They start rolling back my edits - I roll back their rollback, and we get into an argument, they roll back my edit again - I bring it to meta. Now the question is: AITA, NTA, ESH?
Who will people judge as being the trouble maker and bring that judgement into every future interaction? If we weren't reasonable, and would keep rolling back whose privileges would we limit? The difference always seems to come down to "what do we enforce?" - if we enforce anything, then it isn't a guideline - it is policy.
Disagreements like that come in the company of the looming threat of: "We will take away your privilege to participate, if you do not act the right way."
12:09 PM
@Akixkisu Blast from the past! I honestly don't remember what I did now :P
the difference lies in the consequences - Do I receive worse answers because I phrased a question poorly, or can I not ask a question because I don't meet the criteria?

Can I accept an edit that changes pronouns, or do I have to reject it because we enforce a policy, and I would be at risk of losing my privileges because I do it a few times?

These are some that we discussed recently.
@NautArch hm I would have been curious :)
@Akixkisu I'm pretty sure I did the concentration checks.
May be able to go back to the VTT and see what happened.
@NautArch uh, that sounds exciting - if it isn't too much work.
it is an interesting way to balance an encounter that includes "too many" characters.
I really should start taking notes when I run the games.
12:25 PM
@NautArch I agree - though I recently came across "outline of the Gargoyle lair, 2 tower figure a,b next to city." - and why oin earth did I not use the city name?
Took me thirty minutes to figure out that it was notes for a 2e campaogn that i hadn't securely tugged in the folder.
12:45 PM
(It was a Silver Marches location)
Telkoun’s Tower to be precise.
1:04 PM
Q: What is an "edit war" and is it ever appropriate?

Thomas MarkovI was recently involved in a series of back-and-forth edits to the tags of a question. In particular, the question lacked any explicit statement or tag designating the system, so it was closed in accordance with our don't guess the system policy. Another user (not the querent) added a system tag ...

1:16 PM
@Akixkisu It takes two to tango. Can't have an edit war if one side refuses to participate. Make the edit you think is appropriate and leave a comment, then leave it alone. Flag for moderator attention if you need to. Post here in chat if you want some other users to take a look at things. There are lots of things you can do that aren't edit warring, there's usually no reason to participate in one.
Q: Does the Brace maneuver work with Unarmed Strikes

The Zach ManThe brace maneuver from Tasha's reads: When a creature you can see moves into the reach you have with the melee weapon you're wielding, you can use your reaction to expend one superiority die and make one attack against the creature, using that weapon. If the attack hits, add the superiority die...

1:31 PM
@Akixkisu we already have solutions we practice for this
for literally every single other kind of problem we might run into
we do not need the level of enforcement the policy currently has, and it's that level of strict enforcement that is the source of our problems
@doppelgreener solutions to what?
ok, my bad, i misread
like, quite severe misreading on my part, nevermind
it has been A Day
@doppelgreener no worries, days are :)
1:56 PM
Learned something cool today. An estimated 60% of humans do not have a psoas minor muscle.
@ThomasMarkov my strategy is basically always to wine in chat about it :)
Hey folks, I know I've asked about this one before, but this (very old and early) answer of mine is bugging me and I'm trying to improve it. I'd really appreciate your feedback: rpg.stackexchange.com/a/139811/50702
@G.Moylan Honestly...it seems like idea generation.
You really should back up each of those suggestions with experience.
2:12 PM
@NautArch that's why it bothers me, but others have done the same with their answers and even praised my answer for that very thing
@bobble s/wine/whine
@G.Moylan Yep, and all of those are idea generation as well. I think Dale's answer is okay, though.
@NautArch That OR digging into the nitty gritty of the worst part of 5e: Spell targeting
But this is either "It's up to the DM" or "This is what I did/saw"
@NautArch Dale's answer is wrong
2:13 PM
@G.Moylan Yes, yes it is.
never mind :P
But yeah, all answers are currently opinion-based.
so I'm trying to fix mine and keep it within the bounds of accepted answer. Especially since OP directly commented on why they accepted my answer. But I know that it's problematic and needs change from that, so I don't know what to do
@G.Moylan I think if you lead with "it's up to the DM, but here are some considerations", it'd be better.
At least, for me.
@ThomasMarkov what does it do?
@NautArch I was thinking along those lines. My current draft includes a bit about that at the very top, then talks about the XGtE optional rule
@Medix2 Improved my answer.
2:17 PM
can you not reply to your own chat anymore?
@G.Moylan I think the key is separating your ideas from your answer if those are unsupported. They can be extra considerations, but shouldn't be the meat of your answer because you aren't actually recommending their use, but to help a DM in making a decision.
@G.Moylan you can, but you have to manually grab the number of your message - you could grab this one "58726349"
@G.Moylan you need an extension (it's never been possible without it)
Or do like @Akixkisu says
The number is always available in the permalink.
@AncientSwordRage oh gotcha. I had a script on my last setup that must have allowed me to do that. I haven't installed it here yet
2:19 PM
Takes two more clicks than necessary, but works.
@ThomasMarkov like this i think
@NautArch Ok, I'll work on my phrasing and see how I can very clearly indicate them as just options without suggesting they be used.
@G.Moylan It's your answer, but leaning into "it's up to the DM" will also separate those out.
It's a tricky question. I think I'd likely a give a clue to the players that the scrying sensor can't figure out where to go.
I wish there was a way to preview an edit without actually posting it. Shop for feedback first.
without just spamming chat
@G.Moylan go to Dragons?
2:23 PM
@NautArch probably NaB
Or meta even...I think that's an actual use of it.
@NautArch just dont accidentally post it
Q: Formatting Sandbox

Ólafur Waage Notes: Answers will occasionally be moved to the Sandbox archive when there are too many of them. When using them to report bugs, keep an eye on the post. This site, Meta Stack Exchange, is usually used as a "test bed" for pending changes happening to the way text is rendered on all network...

I can sandbox just fine, I wanted to get extra eyes on the answer before posting
@G.Moylan nab works, too.
We've got a meta on starting with ## and not # for headers, right? Can't find it :(
@NautArch it was a comment on the main headers meta I think
nvm im wrong
2:31 PM
A: Use real headers instead of fake headers

KevinBe careful with level 1 headers The title of the question is an H1 (source: I just checked), and the entire question should be subordinate to ("below") the title. If the question contains a separate H1 in its body text, then this semantic relationship will fail. Putting an H1 at the top of an ...

I don't think that's what I'm remembering.
that seems dubious
@ThomasMarkov Promptly updooted
Mar 17 at 6:30, by Xirema
@A.B. There's three levels of headers, prefixed with the pound (hash) sign (#). One gives you a 1st level header, which is the biggest. 2 gives you the 2nd level, and 3 gives you the 3rd level, the smallest. It has to be the first thing on the line, and there has to be a space between the pound sign(s) and the text that's supposed to be the header.
@G.Moylan Conversation continues there
There was a user explaining at one point their experiences using a screen reader and how having answers using single # headers made for a much worse experience
2:51 PM
someone saying it's an actual issue rather than someone speculating it might be is much better evidence
3:05 PM
is the movement halting ability of the Sentinel feat "always on"?
Q: If you have the Sentinel feat, can you choose not to reduce a creature's speed to zero when you hit with an opportunity attack?

DumpcatsAssuming you have the Sentinel feat, can you choose to not reduce an opponent's speed to zero when you hit them with an opportunity attack?

So yeah, at times, it's not a good thing to do.
I had to make that judgement call a few times.
wait a second, the warcaster feat says "you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack"
so even if the spell contains a melee attack (like booming blade or the smite spells), that would not count as an opportunity attack?
@Yuuki Right, so when someone leaves your reach, you may use your reaction to cast a spell rather than making an opportunity attack. Reaction still used, but different mechanic.
@Yuuki Correct.
Q: War caster feat and green flame blade, is it legit?

Derrek BertrandThe War Caster feat allows a single-target spell ("must target only that creature") to be cast instead of a melee strike for an opportunity attack. Green-Flame Blade appears to have a single target, and then some damage "leaps" onto a creature 5 feet away. The other creature is never referred to...

For the smite spells, you'll need to have teed them up first. No bonus action opportunity to cast that.
@Yuuki Hmm, those spells wouldn't work per Thomas' answer.
i'm trying to figure out if there's anti-synergy between sentinel and warcaster + booming blade. since sentinel stops all movement on a successful opportunity attack, it seems like it wouldn't work well with booming blade if that counts as an opportunity attack.
@Yuuki Right, they wouldn't keep moving.
3:14 PM
@NautArch that is predicated on a mistaken interpretation of Range vs Targeting
@G.Moylan Maybe?
I don't think it's clear, so ask your DM if you can do this.
@NautArch The spell calls out the target "On a hit, the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects"
If you're the target you're hitting yourself
Oh, that's right - they updated the language, right?
yeah but since the wording of warcaster says "rather than making an opportunity attack", does casting booming blade with warcaster count as an "opportunity attack"?
tl;dr legalese
OH! I see wher eyou're going.
3:16 PM
an opportunity attack is a specific thing, so anything that isn't that wouldn't be, by definition
Okay, so a creature still provokes the OA, but you opt to cast a spell rather than attack with an OA.
And when you do that, it's no longer an OA.
It's a warcaster attack instead
and so it won't halt someone in their tracks because it's not a sentinel OA?
WIth a strict ruling, yes.
I'm not sure I'd be strict with it - i'd have to consider.
that's an interesting case, nice find
hmm... i'll throw it up on the site
3:19 PM
Yeah, it's a good site question.
@Medix2 You're probably right about the feat/proficiency question on firearms/scimitar, but I'm going to wait on OP for before confirming that.
the top answer on that linked Q is a hot mess
arrggh, we have evidence that the lich we defeated has reformed. No, we don't know where the phylactery is. (We do have suspicions) Part of our last tactic was my bard (expertise in Athletics) grapples the lich, holds him there while the martials beat on him. But I think a lich would have teleport, and might try to use that to get out of this tactic. Does that mean the lich teleports out of my grasp, or, do I teleport with him to wherever he's doing? Thoughts?
@KorvinStarmast "This spell instantly transports you and up to eight willing creatures of your choice "
oh wait, this has been asked
Q: Is War Caster's spell still considered an Opportunity Attack?

Man_Over_GameThe feat War Caster allows you to cast a spell when an enemy provokes an Opportunity Attack from you. The spell must target only the provoking creature, and can only have a casting time of 1 Action. For the sake of abilities like Sentinel (which causes Opportunity Attacks to reduce a creature's...

The first time we fought the lich, we were confronted with it putting an antimagic field up and minions swarming us.
@G.Moylan My being not willing means I don't go? Also, if he uses plane shift, I have a charisma save proficiency, so he likely won't take me with him. If he does, however, I am hosed.
3:24 PM
@KorvinStarmast I'd say that you might be willing if you recognize the spell being cast but the lich would still have to choose you as a target in order for you to travel as well
@KorvinStarmast Yeah, he can't take you with him.
"There's our brave bard, on the demi plane of chili con queso, alone with the lich, grappling it, and realizing that the only phrase she can utter is 'Aw sheeet!'
@KorvinStarmast I'd very much like to visit the demiplane of Chili Con Queso. Is there also a demiplane of just Queso? Asking for a friend.
I have to counterspell and succeed if he tries plane shift, or it's bye bye bardie ....
@NautArch sounds like those Minecraft mods where you generate demiplanes of reactor fuel
3:28 PM
@Yuuki There ya go.
@KorvinStarmast for a moment I misunderstood what you meant by reformed, and it had turned good
@Medix2 though, the entire document structure of our answers is messed up. If one answer uses ## headings, then every single part of the rest of the page is considered belonging to that section until the next ## or # heading is encountered.
@NautArch There is indeed. :) It is formally called plano formaggio since it was created by an Italian speaking deity ...
A while back I made a bunch of accessibility reports on MSE to the effect of "hey, your site just isn't accessible at all" and covered screen reader navigation of answers as part of it.
@AncientSwordRage If the lich had done that, we'd not be figuring out how to mess it up. Beyond that, does stuffing a lich into a bag of devouring end it, or will it reform again?
3:30 PM
@doppelgreener did anything come of that?
Yes indeed
@KorvinStarmast if the phylactery is around, it should reform, no?
@doppelgreener what'd they do?
@G.Moylan that's my guess, but the bag of devouring being something like an interdimensional beast has me puzzled ...
@G.Moylan Two keyboard-only feature requests were implemented not long after, and I know from speaking with staff members that a couple of those reports left people in the company kind of floored (“they can't even read users' reputation scores!?”) and they took this stuff on board for larger efforts.
Jul 22 '20 at 17:10, by Rubiksmoose
@AncientSwordRage Definitely different regions of the plane = different pasts. The best time is when the plane collides with the plane of cheese though.
3:32 PM
That said though, those reports were all in mid-2018, and it's now mid-2021, so I don't think those larger efforts are happening after all.
Here's the reports I made: meta.stackexchange.com/…
@G.Moylan yeah, true, here's Bag of Dev feature ... Any creature that starts its turn inside the bag is devoured, its body destroyed lich has get out of jail free card for that ...
@KorvinStarmast The Bag of Dev is a different bag. Fueled by coffee, it either speaks fluent C# or Java, and will probably argue with you about why its language is superior
@G.Moylan Achshually JavaScript is much better....
@AncientSwordRage screaming
Bag of Junior Dev will ask why their JavaScript code isn't working in the browser, and show you a file of Java code
3:36 PM
I feel like the JavaScript devs are probably Warlocks, C# are Sorcerers and Java is for Wizards only
@AncientSwordRage nah, java is for barbarians
Java is for the kind of wizards that created the owlbear
Meanwhile Bards are over here singing sweet nothings in our ears with Python
@G.Moylan I thought Python would be for Monks, what with PEP20 and all
Perhaps. At any rate, warforged probably run on Objective C because that's about as close to magic as you can get
I program in Siren. It looks really good and is fun once you start to learn it, but then it will destroy your spirit once you get further.
3:39 PM
What is Siren built for?
oh lol nm I'm slow
@G.Moylan i looked at some objective-c code once. i'm pretty sure that's why i had to get a new prescription for my glasses
@G.Moylan I just imagining a Warforged with spinning beachball eyes
@AncientSwordRage loading... loading... initiate savage beating protocol
@AncientSwordRage I bet they come with free upgrades
warforged running apple os lends a whole new perspective on "i'm a mac and i'm a pc"
@Yuuki definitely an eye-crosser
3:45 PM
@Yuuki fairly certain we already have it
Warlocks would def use an object-oriented language, since there's a heavy focus on inheritance
24 mins ago, by Yuuki
Q: Is War Caster's spell still considered an Opportunity Attack?

Man_Over_GameThe feat War Caster allows you to cast a spell when an enemy provokes an Opportunity Attack from you. The spell must target only the provoking creature, and can only have a casting time of 1 Action. For the sake of abilities like Sentinel (which causes Opportunity Attacks to reduce a creature's...

Oh, it was already linked. SO many messages XD
yeah, scroll down a bit
3:48 PM
You mean up. A lot XD
lol sorry that's partly my fault
well, scroll down from where you first replied
it's like five lines after "hmm... i'll throw it up on the site"
I need to get my script settings back out of my other browser profile.
Yeah, I perfectly skipped it in both directions XD
4:03 PM
Does the answer to this change if the balor has a creature grappled?
@KorvinStarmast Nope. Carrying is not wearing.
@NautArch Hmm; problem I have with that is if I grapple and move, I get half movement if I drag someone along with me. Isn't that teleport a kind of movement (the balor's kind?) hmmm.
But there is the "if it could it would mention it" based on how other, similar spells are worded
@KorvinStarmast Definitely not. I really don't see any way this can happen without language like teleport and dimension door's willing creature line.
Having said that...your DM may do it for story reasons.
@NautArch And, Misty Step also does not let you take a passenger, I think
Briefly surrounded by silvery mist, you teleport up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space that you can see
@KorvinStarmast Correct - it doesn't have that language.
It doesn't have the equipment carried language, either - but i'm willing to hand wave that to prevent nudity.
4:08 PM
OK, I see the consistency - if you can take creatures with you then it will add that provision. Makes much sense.
I may take Thunder step as a magical secret, then. Hmmm.
@KorvinStarmast Right, being able to take creatures with you is HUGE. Nearly all that do are for willing. To take an unwilling creature is a very strong ability.
@NautArch yep
Trying to think of one that can...
Plane shift, but there's a Cha save
Actually, you send them there, you don't take them with you, I am gonna go and check ...
@KorvinStarmast Just checked, you give them a one-way ticket.
Similar to banishment, except they have to find their own way back.
4:13 PM
the "a" was very excited and wanted to move to the front
@bobble I type too fast.
I get ahead of myself sometimes.
@NautArch Yeah, so my lich scenario with my 'bye bye' bardie isn't a concern. But he could send me to the demi plane of rancid cottage cheese and bean dip, and I'd have to find my own way home.
@NautArch there, the "a" is happy :)
Check my dupe closure here
4:47 PM
how does dissonant whispers work if movement speed is 0?
> On a failed save, it takes 3d6 psychic damage and must immediately use its reaction, if available, to move as far as its speed allows away from you.
do they still use their reaction if their movement is 0?
@Yuuki I think so yes
yeah. must use its reaction, if available, to move as far as its speed allows (which is zero)
I assume that if they're, say, grappled, then they just struggle without going anywhere (which is distracting enough that they lose their reaction)
Note that speed is not movement though, we have some complicated question on already used movement and dissonant whispers somewhere XD
5:08 PM
DiceTry explains how you might replace D&D Alignment with the Magic the Gathering colour pie.
47 mins ago, by Thomas Markov
Check my dupe closure here
@ThomasMarkov Sorry, I had a look but didn't know either way
been busy at work unfortunately
@AncientSwordRage color pie might be a better way to describe your own character but if there's one thing that alignment does manage to do competently, it's quick to figure out how other characters might react to your character's actions/alignment.
i don't like alignment myself, but i will admit that it's pretty easy to figure out that a lawful good character would, in broad strokes, not interact well with a chaotic evil character
@Yuuki I think that assumption loses nuance because not all Chaotic Evil characters are the same, likewise with LG
Be who you are, let the world sort it out.
5:15 PM
@NautArch that's a very Red/Green philosophy :D
well, deciding on a gut reaction is hardly a situation filled with nuance
@AncientSwordRage like.... the parts of that sentence are Red, then Green
@Yuuki well what if LG character killed some puppies because they knew they were possessed by demons, and the CE character LIKES PUPPIES!
@AncientSwordRage seems like the answer would be to wonder what kind of demons would compel someone to kill puppies
probably a contrived scenario, but the gut reaction will be off probably
kinda reminds me of those demon doors in fable
5:18 PM
@Yuuki I mean the puppies are demon possessed D:
"to prove you're evil, you must eat this chick"
Our DM put a bunch of kids in front of us that had intelligence devourerers inside them. We definitely killed more kids than we should have.
@NautArch hah
thats wild
I got to dash though
@NautArch they were already dead, tbf
they were just meat puppets at that point
@AncientSwordRage I seem to play Red/Green every time I can. This probably says something.
5:34 PM
If an edit made grammar changes that are actually unhelpful, I should just undo them, right?
@Medix2 yeah
@Medix2 if youve got an itch to remove some unsupported answers you might find some here.
I wonder if anybody already reported the edit bug with headers showing up despite not having been edited
Q: Revision histories of posts show headings being removed and re-added every single revision, even if they aren't changed

Sonic the Anonymous HedgehogIf a post has heading markup and has been edited, the revision histories' inline and side-by-side views seem to show them all changing on each and every edit, even though they aren't edited at all. (The side-by-side Markdown view isn't affected.) As an example, see https://meta.stackexchange.com/...

Oh good
@MarkWells that you're not color-blind?
5:45 PM
Can't rule that out. Maybe I'm really playing Green/Red.
@G.Moylan just occurred to me: the deprecation of mobile views might've been a technical debt issue blocking the implementation of better accessibility (whether in terms of technically preventing good implementation, or just taking up the hours that'd be put to work on accessibility)
@doppelgreener having to implement everything twice could indeed have been a blocker
6:06 PM
heh, I may have a question "how many creatures can go through an arcane gate in ten minutes" need to see if we have that yet ... brb
6:46 PM
@doppelgreener I was assuming that, but I may be imagining that I read it too
7:06 PM
@AaronShekey It's been a long, winding road to get here. Congrats on making it. People really don't understand the amount of work that went in to paying off this tech debt and getting to a sustainable platform. Great work team! — Joe Friend 2 hours ago
Joe Friend mentioned the technical debt
(what a name)
@G.Moylan or it could be that even if they had to just implement things once, they genuinely could not make the layout updates that would be required because of the mobile view being there and being tightly coupled to stuff and thus putting ancient constraints on what that stuff could be
7:26 PM
@KorvinStarmast We have similar things at least
Oh maybe not for that particular spell, it actually requires (maybe) that creatures enter an unoccupied space
I imagine the answer is have an infinitely high vertical column of creatures fall into the portal
@Medix2 Since people fall 500 feet per turn, t's not really infinite? But tall enough you would be getting in space so it doesn't matter?
I've flagged this NAA even VLQ is the proper flag, it's too old to flag VLQ.
Same question, I flagged this NAA because it's NAA.
7:43 PM
@Helwar They fall 500 per turn only when using a certain optional rule
@Medix2 fair enough, is it infinite fall speed without it?
I think it is, might be undefined though, so still could be
I need some advice about whether or not to post an answer.
@ThomasMarkov Oh?
I have an answer to this question, and as far as I can tell, no answer has incorporated my argument.
My argument is basically "Trance says you get the benefits of 8 hours of sleep, one of the benefits of 8 hours of sleep is a long rest, ergo you get a long rest"
I dont see that any answer has actually explained it that way
Ill just throw it out there and delete it if no one likes it lol
Here it is:
A: Is 4 hours long enough for a long rest for Elves?

Thomas MarkovA human benefits from a long rest after 8 hours of sleep, and an elf gets the same benefits as an 8-hours-sleeping human with 4 hours of Trance. Let's focus on this portion of Trance: After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep. The rules for lo...

I really dont see why Crawford even had to get involved.
Its a pretty obvious reading of the rules, and Im surprised no one has answered like this before.
I'd appreciate some feedback, it seems so obvious to me that I feel like I might be missing something here.
8:02 PM
Doesn't the SAC address this?
It does.
Im just confused about why the SAC or JC ever had to get involved.
Probably because errata happened a few times
And because people found it confusing even if it really wasn't
@ThomasMarkov Wizard's First Rule, that's why. 😉
@KorvinStarmast That was a good book, but its only one in the series I read. I heard the rest of the series is steaming poo.
@Helwar (Technically, only if one is using Xanathar's optional rule ..)
@ThomasMarkov I'll take a peak
@ThomasMarkov yes, you heard right, about 60 pages into book 2 I could not take it anymore.
@ThomasMarkov If a human rests, not a human sleeps. You even cited where the minimum sleep is six hours. Maybe instead of saying this Thus, if a human sleeps for 8 hours , you say this Thus, if a human sleeps for 6 hours ... per the rule you cited.
8:14 PM
@Medix2 I think the description of a long rest was only errataed once, but yes, once that errata happened, the SAC was updated accordingly.
@KorvinStarmast My point is that sleeping 8 hours is, in no uncertain terms, a sufficient condition for benefiting from a long rest.
I think before that errata, the SAC's answer was that elves still needed to sleep 8 hours
@ThomasMarkov Yes, that is true. They can get away with less, but 8 for sure takes care of it.
Here's the 2016 SAC, which was the pre-errata answer to the question of whether elves could finish a long rest in 4 hours: media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/SA-Compendium.pdf
> The intent is no. The Trance trait does let an elf meditate for 4 hours and then feel the way a human does after sleeping for 8 hours, but that isn’t intended to shorten an elf’s long rest. A long rest is a period of relaxation that is at least 8 hours long. It can contain sleep, reading, talking, eating, and other restful activity. Standing watch is even possible during it, but for no more than 2 hours; maintaining heightened vigilance any longer than that isn’t restful. In short, a long rest and sleep aren’t the same thing; you can sleep when you’re not taking a long rest, and you can t
@V2Blast Would the pre-errata wording affect my answer?
8:18 PM
@ThomasMarkov Not sure, I haven't looked at your answer yet :P
@ThomasMarkov be cause the general case didn't call out the specific case? Not that it needed to but JC ruled wrong and they had to fix it? That's my surface reading
Here's the pre-errata description of a long rest (the first paragraph, anyway):
> A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours. If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity—at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity—the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it.
confused thomas noises
So my answer would still apply pre-errata
@V2Blast why... Why does JC even need that last bit about being the dominant race?
@AncientSwordRage shrugs
I guess he was just thinking "what would the worldbuilding implications of this change be?"
Anyway, post-errata description, for comparison:
> A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch. If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity — at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity — the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it.
Anyway, I think it's only addressed in the SAC because Crawford got several questions about it, and because there was a different answer in the SAC pre-errata.
8:27 PM
My issue here is that I am worried I am overlooking something in my answer. It feels like someone should have thought of it 7 years ago because it seems so obvious to me, so surely there's a reason they didn't post it.
Maybe they just thought what the SAC used to say?
In particular: "a long rest and sleep aren’t the same thing"
@Medix2 lol even before the errata this wasnt even true
Also Trance doesn't explicitly call out shortening the rest time, which one might have expected it to do much more explicitly than it does
@ThomasMarkov doesn't mean people wouldn't think it was true
Compared to Aspect of the moon which removes your need for sleep entirely, but does call out the rest time
Like catnap states: "that target gains the benefit of a short rest" and Trance doesn't state it quite so explicitly
8:31 PM
@Medix2 Yeah, but it is only one obvious logical step removed from it
Well, it's also apparently a complicated wording since this answer doesn't notice what you've claimed is an obvious logical step XD
Like, it highlights the same rules as you, and comes to a different conclusion
You could argue that it's the result of a "bad" previous ruling (an illogical reading of the rules) causing confusion.
(Which, in my interpretation, is what happened with the original Shield Master ruling - even if it might be more fun, I don't think "If you do X, then you can do Y" lets you do Y first with the promise of doing X later.)
Big agree on the Shield Master thing
@Medix2 Thirdsded on the shield master thing
That pageantry screws up so many features if you apply it equivariantly.
@V2Blast that was my guess
I had forgotten about Shield Master
8:51 PM
@AncientSwordRage ugh I wish I didn't know that now XD
@AncientSwordRage lal, I mean lol
Crawford has recently tweeted this, which supports your answer: "Clarification about bonus actions: if a feature says you can do X as a bonus action if you do Y, you must do Y before you can do X. For Shield Master, that means the bonus action must come after the Attack action. You decide when it happens afterward that turn." — V2Blast ♦ May 12 '18 at 1:38
@trogdor is that or cyborg chefs
@AncientSwordRage I know that, I really do, but using the bonus action before the attack, so you can make the enemy fall flat and attack with advantage, makes sooooo much sense T_T
@Helwar That's how we play it. It's much more fun.
9:25 PM
Agreed for SM, less so for everything else XD
@V2Blast original bonus action rule did not say that but I think we've been over this before.
But if you read the entire text of shield master, the intent is that you are using the shield as a weapon! **You use shields not just for protection but also for offense**. You gain the following benefits while you are wielding a shield:
1. If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield.
It doesn't say "if/then" it says if, you can and bonus action rule says you can do it in any order.
That means that with SM, if you shove first you are committed to attack Action. (I have seen people argue that this l
9:42 PM
@KorvinStarmast This is how I would rule it, I think it's more fun like this :)
@Helwar My DM ruled it originally "bonus action whenever" and that worked, and when the Crawford waffle showed up, DM decided "OK, that was OP" and changed it to after. It made my job harder as a Fighter. Martial characters get screwed again, thanks WoTC. Their prime product is called Magic, the Gathering. Who'd have thought that they were biased towards spell casters? Anyone? Beuller? 😎 PS: thinking strongly of a Watcher Oath Paladin from Orsa. Or Garlebrandt
if i'm casting spells with a material component as an eldritch knight, i still need an empty hand, don't i? the eldritch knight doesn't have arcane foci mentioned in its spellcasting feature so it's either having the material component in hand or using a component pouch.
9:58 PM
Or another item which allows you to use it as a spellcasting focus in general (see eg. Ruby of the War mage)
it does help that a good number of spells i'd be using as an eldritch knight don't have material components
but since i managed to get some good stat rolls, my spell save DC actually isn't bad so i was venturing to adding some save DC spells (which usually have material components) to my book/list
10:21 PM
Q: If you change your Wizard subclass from Chronurgy Magic to something else, do you retain the subclass specific Dunamancy Spells?

Sam LacrumbFor reference, Changing your subclass is a new feature from TCoE. It allows you to change your subclass the next time you would gain a class feature.(With DM permission) Duanamancy spells Says: Dunamancy spells are readily available to the wizard subclasses in this chapter (Chronurgy Magic, Gra...

10:56 PM
@ThomasMarkov I would have said that four or five books were good (don't recall off the top of my head), and then there's clearly a summer where Goodkind read Ayn Rand and thought "that's what fantasy novels need more of!"
11:16 PM
Speaking of books, how do people feel about the new Dune movie coming out? (I've been listening to it recently to reacquaint myself)
my dad is cautiously excited
That seems to be the common consensus
He approved of the special effects seen so far
The main comparisons it seems to have is the (horrible - depending on your opinion) rendition from the 80s, and the (amazing - depending on your opinion) job they did with Bladerunner 2049
From what I've heard though, is that they're adapting the book into a series of movies
Which does allow for more detail
@Plucky54 hey :)
11:40 PM
@KorvinStarmast Not sure what you mean. I'm specifically saying I disagreed with Crawford's original ruling on Shield Master as an illogical reading of the rules. (The lack of the word "then" doesn't make it less of a conditional statement.) I'm not saying I think DMs shouldn't allow shield-bashing first anyway - I just don't think it's a logical reading of the rules as they currently stand. I wouldn't mind if Shield Master was errataed to explicitly allow the shield-bash anytime.
...But anyway, I'm not rehashing this argument in chat; I was just using it as a point of comparison.
Been a while @V2Blast
lol hi @Ben. Just poppin in randomly xP
@Ben Hello! I just haven't been all that active in chat here lately
I recently got a new job after 5 interviews, so I'm excited for that! It starts in about 3 weeks :)
@Plucky54 Feel free to hang around :)
@V2Blast Oooh very nice!
I too have only been active intermittently. A few hours in the morning every few days
@Ben From what little I've seen, it looks like they might have a better understanding of the intended politics of the book, compared to most adaptations (and most vocal fans of the books, sigh).
But on the other hand, that trailer had an almost comically outdated use of the Ethnic Wail, and that's not a great sign.
If they're really going to commit to a franchise that's trying to recreate the intended message of the original... there's gonna have to be some major adaptation in both content and structure, I think.
Herbert took a big risk making the first novel a thematic trap which he sprung in the sequels. I don't think it worked then and I think it'd be an even bigger mistake now.

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