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12:10 AM
\o bobble reporting for duty
 
Ben
[radio static] send for more caffeine! I [static] --eat, we n-- [static] --ore caffeine!
I'm in that weird state of "Brain going hyper, but making no sense, body still not awake - more caffeine needed to stabilize the situation"
 
Eventually, adding more caffeine won't help
As an analogy, the way to make a dead phone work is not to continuously force more and more electricity into it
 
Ben
Shhh! Don't let my body know that... I'm still living that lie
My body still believes that caffeine works.
For now
 
whispers hey, Ben's body, the caffeine is a lie
3
 
Ben
Noooooo!
 
12:20 AM
This was a triumph! I'm making a note here: Huge success.
3
 
Ben
[Chugs the coffee anyway]
 
@bobble hands the Glados voice processor
 
Ben
How were people's weekends?
 
tiring but overall good
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, messaging number in answer, pattern-matching email in answer, +1 more (443): What is a "spellcaster" for the purpose of magic item attunement? by Justinah Anne PHILIPS on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose @ThomasMarkov)
 
Ben
12:25 AM
@bobble maybe you need more caffeine.......
 
@bobble Smelling salts.
 
Ben
@ThomasMarkov [Adds salt to coffee] I'm not sure about this
 
12:40 AM
@Ben pretty sure you can die this way.
 
Ben
TIL
 
But I haven’t checked.
 
@Ben (table) salt can remove bitterness from coffee!
 
Ben
Iiiinteresting....
 
@bobble good point
 
1:05 AM
@AncientSwordRage, the context you're missing here due to your rep can be seen here (you ain't pingable in the Reading Room, sorry for posting here)
 
@bobble oh I'm aware of that
 
oh sorry
 
We get the lit feed in TREU, and I saw the original answer which was frankly anaemic
 
ah, I remember chatting with you there
 
Unsorry yourself 🙃
Yeah! I'm a big fan of self-answers and cribbing from reviews is smart
 
1:10 AM
my other ID answer cribbed from the Fandom wiki because those got all the spoilers :)
 
There are ID questions here too, yes? I don't see them often
 
No not really
Sci-Fi and Fantasy love them
 
1:36 AM
Can I kill a vampire by putting it too close to any star, or just its own sun?
 
Most creatures die if they get too close to a star.
 
Yeah but only vampires have 1AU = too close
 
Lord Ruthven, Dracula, Edward, and Carmilla all disagree.
 
20 damage per turn is nothing to sneeze at roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Vampire#content
 
Sunlight as an extinction-level event for a vampire was invented for the silent films because it looks dramatic. Vampires aren't a coherent concept, they're a widely varigated and loosely collected grouping of ideas. So you gotta define your context first.
 
1:42 AM
May 19 at 3:33, by MikeQ
Obviously they are looking for answers that cite historical and scientific facts about real-world vampires.
 
thing is, I could give them some. They'd be disappointed.
There's an old genetic disease that disfigures the face in a way that looks like it's whitening and decaying and weakens the body, that is held at bay by extra iron intake, most conveniently from blood.
 
As I understand it, D&D's vampire is mostly drawing from the creature's depiction in Hammer Film Productions horror movies.
 
@Ben I got to play with a new toy. Pole Saw. Was was outraged at what people were charging to trim trees, so I got a new pole saw. And thankfully, my son is a good spotter ... but there are some trees that are old that I may get the professionals to come and do. We'll see...
 
But D&D's approach to worldbuilding has always been as a mix-and-match kitchen sink of things the creators think are cool, more recently combined with things previous creators thought were cool which the current creators consider mandatory to include whether they want to or not.
 
@Joshua short story I read years ago in a science fiction anthology, called "Something In The Blood" that is about something similar to that
 
Ben
1:47 AM
@KorvinStarmast Ohh that sounds cool
 
The lizard folk question is hilarious, when seen from outside. All kinds of things like that happen at some of my tables.
 
@Joshua If your setting is a D&D one, your question first assumes the cosmology of the Prime/Material Plane is physically approximate to our own; that the physical world is a planet, that its sun is a star, that other solar systems exist and can be reached, etc.
 
You mean you haven't set up a teleportation circle between star systems yet?
 
And by the point we've nailed down all that, I think the question of "does the word sunlight in this line of text based on 1960s Gothic horror films have astronomical specificity" is no longer a useful one.
It's a decision for the campaign, not the text.
@Joshua No, because the last time I played D&D (almost ten years ago) the world was a convex disk at the center of the multiverse, which was itself simply a bubble of order floating in an unfathomable sea of chaos, and the stars were the malevolent gaze of chaos beings seeking to destroy or exploit that order.
 
Just like in real life!
 
1:55 AM
Yes, you all know I strive for realism in my games.
 
Sarcastic statement is sarcastic.
 
Vampires are caused by aristocrats wearing ancient mesoamerican ritual masks, and they are susceptible to sunlight-themed punches if the attacker is performing proper breathing exercises
 
I did really enjoy the Points of Light setting and a lot of its cosmological choices/implications. They really leaned into the world being fantastical beyond the bounds of definition prescribed by magic-as-rules concepts like Vancian schools.
 
@BESW OTOH, see the Iron Giant comic book. (Predates the movie.) Similar themes, but has Iron Giant dealing with a space-bat-angel-dragon-devil that flies out of our sun rather than nuclear war. (Spoiler: s-b-a-d-d has a bad day on earth, presumably would have been fine if it'd just stayed home on the sun.)
It's a great chapter-readaloud for toddlers, though, because the artwork is very stylized and the story's fun to follow. And, you know, a sentence per page makes a 100-pp. book doable for a tot over the course of a week.
 
William Shatner wrote a SyFy Original Movie about a snake made out of fire traveling from the sun to the earth on a solar flare. It committed the worst sin a SyFy Original Movie by William Shatner could make, and was boring.
 
2:02 AM
Is it time to worry when you try to read a spell from a spellbook and it slips from your mind?
 
Might mean your brain needs to do something else for a while.
 
Random fire resistant scroll might get players' attention.
 
Or a sign that says "Fire resistant scrolls! Try one!" and the scrolls aren't actually fire resistant
 
More like one completely intact scroll found in the ash of a library whose contents were burnt to a crisp.
 
@BESW lol
 
2:14 AM
@trogdor They defeated it with a military-grade fire extinguisher.
 
wow that is really anticlimactic
 
Bad writing is bad.
 
(To be fair, Shatner didn't actually write the script; he was the concept guy and one of the producers. But yeah, given the way it was advertised, I think they were coasting on Shatner's name to get people to watch it and shifted a lot of the time and budget to another of the films in their pipeline.)
But there's definitely an important place in the industry for fast and cheap films that aren't made with high expectations. That's the kind of industry space where great talent gets its training because the restrictions force innovation. (Now can we please also make those spaces less dangerous and toxic.)
 
13
Q: Can you use your bonus action while under the effects of the Fear spell?

ChebiFear states: While frightened by this spell, a creature must take the Dash action and move away from you by the safest available route on each of its turns, unless there is nowhere to move. The player's handbook states: anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents y...

 
2:30 AM
Tenbear asks on Twitter "What kinds of stock/royalty free graphics are needed by the indie TTRPG scenes today?"
mv lists on twitter Lux Collective projects to back.
Raquel Vasquez Gilliland wrote a thread on twitter explaining "If you are a writer whose ancestors were colonized & if you are writing magic, I’m going to go ahead and say what a lot of writing-magic guides advise against, and that’s- you don’t have to explain your magic."
Cos'île Été by GAËL SACRÉ. Créez un village mignon sur une île et des petits personnages pour y résider aux côtés d'animaux choupis !
"Not some kind of Grognard Tribune: the creator of Wyrd Science talks creating an TTRPG magazine for all" interview by Chase Carter for Dicebreaker. “Games are changing, and those people are bringing so much good stuff to the table."
Kolax, The Flatterer by timhutchings. Experimental freeform/larp, let's rediscover a lost Menander play in the least best way
Sean Nittner wrote a twitter thread about "the structure of Blades in the Dark, and why there is no part of it that I don't love"
Huzaifa wrote a twitter thread about "Dragon folklore in North Pak"
Levi Kornelsen wrote a twitter thread reviewing Hark! Says the Frog Magus by Diwata ng Manila.
Eric Lang is looking on twitter "to signal boost and platform First Nations artists, game designers and writers"
Not TRPG-related, but James Gurney's blog post about pollarding and coppicing in art got me thinking about whether there are TRPG engines or worlds which could run on similar principles.
"Spectactulars and “Anything Else”" blog post by Bankuei on "Deeper in the Game."
Winner of the Freeplay Award for Non-Digital Game: The Lighthouse at the Edge of the Universe by lostwaysclub. you are the current lighthouse keeper in the lighthouse in space
 
2:47 AM
BESW has stopped a feed from being posted into this room
BESW has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
BESW has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
 
let's see if those work. I can never tell how the chat's going to respond to a feed link.
 
BESW has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
BESW has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
BESW has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
BESW has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
 
3:11 AM
Well, one of them works.
 
Ben
@BESW It's like Minecraft Mod questions - "remove them all, then add them one by one and see which one makes it break"
Just in reverse :P
 
Yeah, the problem is the feed updates on its own whim so I have to sit around until I think it's not generating feed items because I didn't do it right, and not just because I haven't waited long enough.
 
3:38 AM
Bah, I'm quite sure I don't have the Dicebreaker feed right but I'm running out of things to try.
.com/feed is the rss for the whole site, but I can't figure out what link will give me access to just the /category/roleplaying-game articles.
Anyway, added a couple of blogs to the feed. A historical blog that explores original documents and primary sources for the early days of D&D, and blows up a lot of myths about that era; a blog by a designer for Fate and other systems who does reviews and design breakdowns; and a blog that re-imagines Doctor Who as a long-running RPG campaign, complete with character sheets and campaign notes.
They all post less than once a week (often much less), so they won't clutter the feed.
 
Ben
4:23 AM
@BESW Yeah, that's the other downside :P
 
@AlexF Hi!
 
Oh hey bud
Didn't think I was noticeable when I entered
 
Aye, the desktop interface has an animation when someone enters, and orders its user list by how recently a person spoke or entered the room.
 
Duly noted, thanks. I'm just poking around to see if anything exciting is happening
Hope you're having a good day and/or evening
 
It's still the weekend for some parts of the world so the chat isn't as hopping as it often is during the week. You're welcome to lurk and/or participate as you like!
Myself, I'm noodling on what design principles I want to use for a game prop.
 
4:38 AM
Much appreciated!
Ooh, what kind of prop?
 
I've got this idea for a series of printable game props that are diegetic materials for a roadside attraction: brochure, kid's coloring menu, explanatory plaques, etc. And the props contain suggestions towards the kinds of stories you might play with them, but I won't have a specific adventure written up.
 
I love that kind of thing at my tables, your players are lucky
 
Oh, I'm unlikely to use it in one of my own games, though maybe. I'd put it on my itch.io page for other groups to use as inspiration and spice for their adventures.
It's been a VERY long time since I've used that kind of prop at one of my tables, but I like the idea of them even if they don't fit my playstyle much lately.
 
Kind of a funny situation to be in, eh?
 
But if I did use a prop, it'd be this sort of thing: throw it on the table and ask the players to tell me what kind of fiction we're gonna be making today.
 
4:45 AM
I'm going to pop off to bed, but best of luck in your designs!
 
ttfn!
 
 
3 hours later…
7:20 AM
HEARTOUT, Issue 2 by Secession Cycles. A CC zine of original poetry and prose, released once every 4 months.
 
7:35 AM
@BESW sounds like the stuff you would gather on a 1970-90 road trip across the US... heh... would be nice to use some real that era style.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:04 AM
2
Q: Speeding up combat inside a Darkness spell

3C273So I'm a bit of a jerk when playing 5e. Last game, I was the warlock who cast darkness on the battlefield. I can see in the dark obviously, no one else could. It did help us survive, but it dragged on the fight for a long, long time. In another game where I am GM, I know one of my player could pu...

 
9:16 AM
@Trish Not sure what you mean by the last bit.
 
@BESW Like... take a look at 1990 McD placemats and imitate that style for a prop. pinterest.de/pin/317714948682235004
it's surprising what the internet stores: we can get these disposable paper layouts from collectors!
 
Ah, by "real" you mean imitation?
 
9:36 AM
@BESW kinda. Real-ish imitation. As in... picking the Zetgeist/Style of such items gives a huge impact on what story it tells.
I could put the words of a poem here or the actual look of it in a calligraphy: the impact changes a lot!
 
Yes, I'm familiar with the concept. I was just confused by calling it "real."
 
the real was referencing to "that era style"
the that seems too much now that I reread
pinterest.de/pin/2462974785582909 vs just the plaintext tell such a different story, even if the design is rather minimal.
 
Yes. I'm a graphic designer by trade. Which is one reason I'm considering this project in the first place, it's in my wheelhouse.
 
10:02 AM
Hell yea! I kinda love how simple marketing material was till the 70s in times.
 
10:27 AM
I'm inclined to go for a more self/local published look, maybe draw inspiration from zines of the period.
But I also don't want to nail the material down too much to a specific time/place, I'd like it to be comfortable in a lot of different campaign settings.
 
11:21 AM
@BESW were you feeding the chatroom after midnight...? D:
 
Early afternoon.
 
It's after midnight somewhere in the world ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I forgot you were part of the Tomorrow Agency along with Ben and Troggy
@Trish authentic? Seems like a better word
@BESW I love the idea btw
 
@AncientSwordRage authentic has the wrong ring: it means something very specific in reenactment. As in this is not only provable to have existed, but the parts existed in this one combination.
 
Faithful reproduction?
 
11:41 AM
kinda. Authentic means a faithful reproduction in combination with others that make an ensemble that is provable for one specific time, date and person-group.
 
 
1 hour later…
12:44 PM
One month left to submit community ads. Got a banner or sidebar ad? A post you want to highlight here or elsewhere?
 
 
1 hour later…
2:04 PM
1
Q: Can dim light be used to activate Mask of the Wild

Sam LacrumbBecause of a dispute with our DM, I'd like to confirm the following. The wood elf racial feature: Mask of the wild Says: You can attempt to hide even when you are only lightly obscured by foliage, heavy rain, falling snow, mist, and other natural phenomena. Dim light Says: Dim light, also call...

 
 
2 hours later…
4:29 PM
@AncientSwordRage Yesterday's midnight is long gone always.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:56 PM
Bringing my concern back to my home stack.

I found myself looking for an Antonym to "dense" and invariably wound up in the English stack.
 
@goodguy5 Sparse?
 
There are a number of different questions without links to each other and the best answers I found were Tenuous and the madeup word undense
 
In what context/sense?
 
@ThomasMarkov sparse is ungratifying to use for singular objects.
@bobble my usage is for picking something up that I was surprised at how low its density was
 
@goodguy5 Do you mean dense in the sense of mass per unit volume?
 
5:58 PM
yes
 
"light"?
 
@bobble light works technically, but something can be heavy without being dense. In American English, anyway, it is a clumsy fix.
 
3
Q: Single word for "less mass per unit volume" (the complement of "dense")

EizoozI've been looking for the antonym of dense. I'm looking for an exact opposite: a single word the means, precisely, "having less mass per unit volume than another object". That is, I'm seeking a scientific word which could be put into this sentence, and have it make sense: Wood is more _____ ...

? Unless you already found it
 
There are quite a few over there, actually. Rare is very dissatisfying.
Tenuous is the only one that feels sufficiently distinct from other words.
 
Eh, I think sparse works.
 
6:02 PM
You want to describe something that lacks density but is heavy?
 
@Axoren Something that lacks density, regardless of whether or not it is heavy or not
 
Because if it's small and not as dense as you expect, then it would be lighter than you expect.
 
@goodguy5 The problem here is outlined in one of the answers there. Nothing lacks density.
 
@ThomasMarkov I believe that sparse works, but it doesn't fit how we generally use it, here anyway. "That ball is surprisingly sparse" would confuse most Americans.
@ThomasMarkov that's true and I was hoping no one would point out that syntactical error
 
@goodguy5 Ah. In this context we would use "light" as a proxy for an assessment of density.
 
6:05 PM
Is there a reason why the sentence can't be restructured around the contrapositive? Instead of "the object is unexpectedly not-dense", why not "the object isn't as dense as expected"? Is it needed for a word puzzle?
 
nope lol. Just a thought I often have.
 
We were expecting the ball to be heavier based on our estimation of density, but it is quite light. So we would say light, despite our expectation being about density.
 
Today, I took the garbage out and all three bins were less dense than I expected.
They weren't quite light, perse, because they were still large rubbish bins.
and thus I conjectured.
 
@goodguy5 Were they full, yet light?
 
@Axoren full yet not quite as heavy as I expected.
 
6:06 PM
@goodguy5 Im not sure density is what your after here
 
@goodguy5 That's quite literally it, then. You don't assess the density at face value. You infer it from your first sensory interaction: by its weight and knowledge of its volume.
 
Yeah, we would use the weight as a proxy for the density there. Since the can has a fixed volume, the density and the weight scale linearly.
 
"this trash is dense" would have certainly been my thought had it been the opposite event.
@ThomasMarkov not so, not all cans are full
@Axoren but now you've got me thinking. perhaps there's something there.
 
@NautArch Can we move this conversation to Trash where it is on topic?
 
lmao
I'll agree because the joke is too good
 
6:10 PM
These things are big. I expect them to be heavy. I was wrong about them being so heavy. I can, from this point on, infer that they are less dense.
 
I still think I'm going to start using "tenuous" for things that are less dense.
 
It would be unnatural to jump to second order conclusions when describing your initial response to something
 
Right, but if I bring this information to my wife "the trash was less dense than usual this week", she will say "yeah, I bet you didn't break down those boxes before trashing them like I asked you to".
 
I think the association of tenuous to the opposite of density might be tenuous at best.
 
@Axoren Yeah, the evidence in favor of that relationship is sparse, at best.
 
6:12 PM
@ThomasMarkov that hits too close to my recycling bin
 
I'm confused at the length of this conversation
 
@goodguy5 We dont have recycling, but my county's landfill got an award from the EPA for being the most efficient and well maintained landfill in the state.
 
The other thing that probably makes this confusing, is that if you were to eat a food that has literally been filled with compressed air to make it puffier and fluffier (or otherwise even just hollow), we call that light even though it's no lighter or heavier than the same food before this process, all that's changed its its density per unit volume.
 
@ThomasMarkov huzzah? I guess. How many counties over there. AU right?
 
@Axoren I think most people inappropriately use volume as a proxy for daily energy intake. It's one of the primary dietary mistakes people make that prevent them from having success implementing weight loss interventions.
@goodguy5 Georgia, USA
 
6:16 PM
@ThomasMarkov I thought you were in AU for some reason....
oh derp. I know who I was thinking of. my bad
 
@ThomasMarkov On an unrelated note, have you ever made a spellcaster and developed signature spells? If so, here's a freebie if you didn't already do it: Markov's Chains. Chains that rap around one target at a time, where no target can be more than 30 ft. from the previous target.
Hidden Markov Chains: The chains are invisible and the targets must only be close in an abstract unknown sense.
A Markov chain is a stochastic model describing a sequence of possible events in which the probability of each event depends only on the state attained in the previous event. A countably infinite sequence, in which the chain moves state at discrete time steps, gives a discrete-time Markov chain (DTMC). A continuous-time process is called a continuous-time Markov chain (CTMC). It is named after the Russian mathematician Andrey Markov. Markov chains have many applications as statistical models of real-world processes, such as studying cruise control systems in motor vehicles, queues or lines ...
Math pun, probably enough to be banished to the Plane of Math, but just got it in my head and had to share
 
I've playtested a spell called law of averages that makes all damage rolls deal the average rounded up for the duration.
@Axoren Yeah, so when I started playing EVE Online in 2012(?) I was studying Markov chains, so I named my character Thomas Markov
 
Somehow make a central limit theorem spell where for the duration, as many crazy and ridiculous things can happen, but afterwards things always go back to normal.
 
I refused to believe the Central Limit Theorem until I had worked through the proof myself.
It is one of those too-good-to-be-true results in math.
 
My username's an old one, and being a 6-letter one, I don't know how long it'll be uniquely mine. I lost a twitter handle to some kid in Venezuela (who I really hope isn't actually named Axoren). It's also an alternate name for a medication that I think definitely came after I first started using it.
I think Stack is one of the only places that I still use this handle.
I've had it so long, friends from my childhood still call me Ax.
And when they call me by my first name, everyone feels gross.
Like something's so wrong.
 
6:31 PM
I just checked my home sites & SO - didn't find any exact username twins, but there are "Bobble"s, for example
I also found some "custom bobblehead" profile spammers
 
7:28 PM
5
Q: 'Advantage' or 'Disadvantage' on damage rolls

SeriousBriI am looking at creating a few new categories of weapons just to add a bit more reason to spend money on mundane equipment in the early game. Poor, and Masterwork. My initial idea is that poor weapons will use the disadvantage mechanic on damage rolls, that is rolling twice and taking the lower, ...

 
GcL
7:38 PM
@Axoren I think I would assign the state of the previous event as damage. Modifying chain lighting as a lower power spell with a chance of jumping. E.g. two states: (high) above 8 damage, and (low) 8 or lower damage. Jump if to next target if damage state is low. Call it a Marcov's Static Chain.
2d8 lightning, dex save for half. A save would ensure it jumps.
Material components: a bit of wool from a sock and a piece of shag carpet.
 
8:03 PM
I think both my names on here are pretty unique?
 
GcL
@AncientSwordRage Ancient is a pretty rare given name. Rage is a very common surname. So many drivers out there from that family.
 
@GcL Cause of death: Road Rage. "He can't keep getting away with this!"
 
@Axoren Road was always the blacksheep of the family...
in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, Jun 14 at 17:23, by AncientSwordRage
@DavidW Please, Mr. Rage was my father's name.
 
8:26 PM
Any Pathfinder experts know about some way to get +5d6 Sneak Attack as a full-caster?
By level 9 or a little over?
There's a VERY specific build I'm going for, but asking for these pieces is a bit inappropriate for the main site as it's very much "Scour over 100 source books"
 
@Axoren impossible by lvl 9.
 
@Trish Vivisectionist is sooooo close, but I need a Caster, not an Extract-er
How close can we get?
Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat gives 2 levels of multiclass leeway if I need to multiclass into Rogue.
 
rougue classes get 1d6 sneak attack per odd level. So you need to be 9 levels rogue/rogue alternative levels to get to 5d6 sneak attack, or 7 with the accomplished feat.
 
Vivisectionist 7/Wizard 5 really limits the build I'm trying to go for.
 
eh, pf 1 or 2?
 
8:33 PM
PF 1
 
ah, gotcha. hmmm... lemme think...
 
Dastardly Finish + Throat Slicer + Stunning Barrier + Contingency
Planning to make a character for a Westmarch group that has PvP
If possible, this build would allow me to, upon being attacked in Melee, immediately spend my following turn Coup De Grace-ing whoever thought they had the drop on me.
Within reason, I can expect to immediately retaliate with a DC 43 Fort Save or they die.
 
@Axoren to go CDG, I'd actually try and go Ninja Rogue alternative, due to ki points and turning invisible...
that however only leaves 2 levels of full caster using the accomplished sneak attack
 
I know there are better throat-slicer builds, like Monk/Fighter
 
Ninja is the rogue/Monk mix class that is classed as Rogue alternative.
 
8:38 PM
It's enough levels to get the ability to cast Stunning Barrier, but not enough levels for me to be enough of a Full Caster for my regular combat complement
 
Ultimate fighter
 
Well, Stunning Fist would allow for applying Stun.
Fighter would have the option of applying Pinned for Throat Slicer
Because I'd have Greater Grapple and be good enough with CMB
 
GcL
The sheer volume of options reminds me of 3.5
 
It's like if 3.5 had an Anime Adaptation
 
GcL
Bigger eyes and a lot of re-used animation?
 
8:40 PM
3.5e/Stay Night
 
@Axoren this sounds impressive
 
@AncientSwordRage Probably one of the only reasons I would get an Elemental Burst enchantment
If you can reliably Coup de Grace, Flaming Burst swords are worth the extra +1 enhancement equivalence
 
GcL
Does PF1 keep the mechanic about multiple attacks at decreasing attack bonuses?
 
If I was greedier and used a x4 crit weapon, it would be even more, I think
@GcL Yeah, and most of min-maxing is about avoiding needing to care about iteratives.
Strongest builds in Pathfinder involved abusing Natural Attack rules to attack with Two Weapon fighting, a Horn, 2 Wings, Your Teeth, some tentacles, and a tail.
 
GcL
I recall a bunch of 3.5 builds that were exploiting the critical threat range due to the multiple attacks.
 
8:46 PM
Natural Attacks are all considered secondary when combined with Manufactured Attacks, so you get 7 attacks from TWF with normal iteratives. All attacks in the above example from Full Bab:
-2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -7, -7, -12, -12, -17
That's 8 attacks at essentially Full-ish BAB and then 5 attacks that will probably miss.
Your body is like a shotgun in those builds.
And Paizo has never really touched these rules because it means they have to overhaul a lot of their bestiaries.
 
9:26 PM
hey, i've got a question: the Forgotten Realms tends to reference the lands of Abeir-Toril. Is that a 1-to-1, or are there parts we can definitively say are part of the Forgotten Realm and definitely not Abeir-Toril?
 
9:37 PM
Going by the FR fandom wiki, Abeir-Toril was one place before it was split into Abeir and Toril, the latter containing Faerûn which is at least the focus of recent FR stuff
 
 
1 hour later…
10:54 PM
@Someone_Evil right, and other planes like the shadowfell and whatnot seem to be not Forgotten Realms but ... planes in the cosmos outside forgotten realms entirely, which we might call part of planechase or something
but abeir-toril does have the underdark, because it's actually in abeir-toril, under the surface
 
11:22 PM
I guess I'm not sure what you mean by of the FR. Conceived by Ed Greenwood? Accessible (canonically) from undisputedly FR places? The setting of a novel branded FR by TSR/WotC? I feel like they're all a little squidgy around the edges.
 
@doppelgreener "Forgotten Realms" is the name for the campaign setting that takes place mostly on Abeir-Toril as its material plane and mainly Faerun (a continent on Abeir-Toril) as the focus of its stories. Abeir-Toril and Faerun are in-universe names, "forgotten realms" is not
there is a notion of "shadowfell" and other planes tied to FR as such, and there are more general notions of these planes not tied to specific settings or material planes. The books generally aren't particularly careful about distinguishing "Forgotten Realms" cosmology from generic cosmology
that's one of the reasons one of the main reasons one of the authors of the Eberron settings keeps insisting "Everything from D&D has a place in Eberron but not in the way you're used to" - many sources aren't written specifically for Forgotten Realms but kinda assume it as their default
(and there's also an in-universe explanation for how Abeir-Toril split into two separate worlds Abeir and Toril during 4e and then they merged again in 5e but I'm not sure anyone thinks that's canon)
 
11:43 PM
@ACuriousMind I'm amused that many people, including some WotC writers of the time, treated PoL as if it were FR. Which is technically wrong but I feel like it enforced the anticanon attitude of PoL so was thematically very right.
 
@BESW FR always felt like the kind of setting you just throw anything into to me. I've never played anything more than a oneshot in it because I felt I'd just borrow more baggage than it's worth
 
Yeah, treating it as a form of canon always sat strangely with me, because it's the kitchen sink state of the setting.
 
The reason I'm asking is that the Scryfall tagger project is now confronting how it might, taxonomically, sort the upcoming Forgotten Realms Magic: the Gathering set. We identify planes; is Abeir-Toril something we'd categorise as a plane? And are cards with art set in the Forgotten Realm necessarily taking place somewhere in Abeir-Toril?
 
just today I had to "disappoint" one of my players that my version of stuff wasn't in fact the "canon" version of things, but they just found it cool because it meant they couldn't spoil themselves by reading "official" sources
 
"How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Indie RPGs (& How You Can Too)" article on Līber Lūdōrum. Where do you turn when D&D isn’t enough … or becomes too much?
TRUNK by World Champ Game Co. interactive fiction zine for a driving player and a passenger facilitator
 
11:50 PM
@doppelgreener 1. Abeir-Toril is definitely a plane in the M:tG sense. 2. there are many things in the FR canon that are not native to the plane of Abeir-Toril
I don't know enough about the cards in the M:tG set to say how relevant this general statement is to the set as such
 
@ACuriousMind I once ran a 3.5 campaign where everything in the world was re-skinned or templated so that from "I know what that monster's weakness is" to "I know what this nation is like" everything was new to discover.
 
yeah, I try to do that, too - it's often pretty funny because there's only one player who really has encyclopedic knowledge of the "standard lore" and while everyone else just accepts different takes on it, he always goes "Wait, what???" :P
 

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