TRPG General Chat

lisardggY

16:00

(Note, though, that I played very little 1e, and only really started to play seriously with 2e)

KorvinStarmast

It worked in our campaigns. And like you, nobody got all upset about it. Each class had its own "thing" and we were all cool with that.

I sometimes have the feeling that having more PC classes didn't improve anything ...

I am not sure if I can get away with this, but I'd love to have a game world with 5e rules where the only arcane pure casters are warlocks, and the only divine pure casters are druids.

lisardggY

I don't think it's the number of classes that's the problem. Unless we're talking about 3.5, and then yes, it's definitely a problem.

KorvinStarmast

You either get them spells from Mother Nature, or from some dubiously motivated "powerful being" who has its own reasons, or (like a GOO) no reasons at all ...

RevenantBacon

The thing that got me the most about 1e druids was that the loser lost exp

Like, how do you even rationalize that?

It just seemed so weird

KorvinStarmast

For sure 3.5 and prestige classes (gag!) @RevenantBacon In a game where one hit from a specter cost you two levels, nobody cared ...

lisardggY

16:03

I'm playing 5e right now with a party that, apart from me and the GM, knows very, very little of D&D. Not the rules, not the genre conventions, not the history. And it's been amazingly instructive for me to see them play.

doppelgreener

@KorvinStarmast was that a thing that was the case in some edition?

lisardggY

Wights. Vampires. Spectres. They all simply drained you a level, and that was that - you had to gain that XP right back up again.

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener The closest I can come to is Dark Sun, 2e AD&D, and the original classes of Wizard and Cleric in OD&D

doppelgreener

ahh, gotcha

Bardic Wizard

but my dad told me I wouldn’t like early editions which is why he wouldn’t let me borrow his books

KorvinStarmast

16:05

@doppelgreener But I really like that idea so that I can divorce the game from Wizards and their spell books, and all of the other casters. The game is caster happy, but that makes sense, since there are so many pages full of spells and magic is fun .....

lisardggY

@BardicWizard The more I play D&D (and I've played every edition, I think, from 1e and BECMI, through 2e, 3.5, a bit of 4 and now a bit of 5), the more I get the feeling that the better the rules are, from a purely game-design perspective - the more streamlined, balanced and easy to use, the more they serve to create the sort of game I don't really want to play.

doppelgreener

@lisardggY i'd venture that's correlation with other factors going on, more than direct causation

like, streamlined and easy to use rules aren't bad, right? but as the rules have developed, so has the environment they exist in and the way they've been used.

lisardggY

@doppelgreener Sure, there's some of that as well. But, see, the games I enjoy playing these days aren't really like the games I enjoyed back in the 90's either. I don't really go for OSR. I don't necessarily want to go back to that style - but I also don't enjoy these things in newer editions.

doppelgreener

the focus is different, the concept of what a PC is and what they should be doing and how the gae should handle them is changing, the concept of what the game system should support has been changing and expanding, etc

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast My group had a lot of fun in a game where rangers, moon druids, and WM sorcerers were the only casting (sub)classes available.

doppelgreener

16:09

(or compared to the earlier editions where a Fighter would eventually come to claim their own kingdom, the concept of what the game system should support has even shrunk in a few ways)

nitsua60

The idea was that the magical "civilization" wasn't advanced to the point of individual deities and praying for spells or writing down spells. Or writing at all, frankly.

lisardggY

@doppelgreener Yes, exactly. There was a question on the site a couple of days ago about how to give a dragon armor to up their AC. And I really appreciated @ThomasMarkov's frame-challenge answer of "just give them a higher AC. It's your monster and your encounter", but I really dislike the approach of treating the system as an immovable force that must be tweaked like a puzzle to get what you want. It's not the sort of game I want to play.

Bardic Wizard

One group I’m in banned wizards because they didn’t fit the setting, and everyone is called a sorcerer anyways, if we’re talking about bannning classes

nitsua60

@BardicWizard I never talk about banning classes. I talk about allowing them.

lisardggY

Incidentally, the game I've played the longest, I think, is Ars Magica, and there the magic system is totally geared towards tweaking the system by constructing magic spells out of tiny modifiers to balance power over cost until you can research them at a level you want - but it never bothered me there, because that system was properly integrated into the setting.

nitsua60

16:11

(But I've got to run to class in five min, so today's not the day for one of my repetitive rants on how to tackle what I see as bloat even in the PHB.)

AncientSwordRage

@lisardggY it's on my list of games I'd love to play

Bardic Wizard

@nitsua60 hah I’ve got “modified Mondays” now so we’re asynchronous today

lisardggY

@AncientSwordRage I love the setting dearly, at least the version of it we played for over 15 years, through three editions. I'll be the first to say that some parts of the mechanics really don't work well, but the core concept - both of the setting of magical mythic Europe, and of the group dynamic of rotating characters focused around a single location, works extremely well.

nitsua60

@BardicWizard Were "meatless Mondays" ever a thing in your school district? They were around here. And I feel like a school district with a sense of humor could have used that term for their asynchronous programming =P

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 that's cool, were there paladins?

Thomas Markov

16:17

@lisardggY As a player, you more or less are restricted to a pretty rigid set of rules for combat, so I can see that mindset carrying over into DMing after being just a player for a while.

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener heck, none of us were ever kings; we got to be a baron or a duke, king was always an NPC ...

lisardggY

@ThomasMarkov That's the point, that this concept of "I, as a DM, have the same set of rules at my disposal as the players" is a very 3e+ mindset.

KorvinStarmast

@lisardggY It's a 3x mindset, not a 5e mindset.

But some of that is bleedover from a wide variety of other RPGs where the DM/GM roll is quite different, or is vacant

Bardic Wizard

@nitsua60 nope, we have “fish friday” in lent but there’s always some kind of meat (this is why I, a vegetarian, pack lunches)

lisardggY

@KorvinStarmast I agree that 5e made a large change in mindset from 3e there, but I think the 3e mindset has been dominant in the D&D-sphere for the past 20 years, and many 5e questions on the site show that people try to approach their problems in 5e with the same mindset.

nitsua60

16:19

@KorvinStarmast Not that I recall. Rogues (thieves), Barbarians, WM Sorcerer, Ranger; no fighters (no organized warbands/armies to train people at that level), clerics, wizards, monks, bards. Maybe there were champion fighters? But we might have cut back the martial weapons and armor lists.

KorvinStarmast

For example, my cult fanatics are Charisma casters, not Wisdom casters ... with the same stats as in the book.

@lisardggY yeah, too true based on some of the garbage I see posted on GiTP. (And we fall into that trap here a lot too)

@nitsua60 sounds like a great campaign.

lisardggY

I remember following the 5e/vNext playtest announcements when they started coming out and being ridiculously thrilled about a lot of their contents. "Magic items should have individual character and justification, not be automatically calculated as part of a character's wealth-by-level expectations" was one of my favorite after my short 4e campaign.

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 I had Shalvenay run the Assassin in a test of my question about assassin NPCs a few weeks back. And yeah, they are that lethal.

lisardggY

4e, as I like to say, is a game that does what it wants to do very well, but that I hate what it wants to do with a passion.

KorvinStarmast

@lisardggY when my brother and nephew told me a new edition was out, and asked if I'd get it etc I just said "I already sold my 3.x books for beer money at half price. Not interested in a new edition" and it was six years later that the 5e basic free download came out that I finally tried the game again.

@lisardggY WBL was I think one of the things wrong with the 3x model ... though it built upon a shceme of play that AD&D 1 and 2 had made common (expecting to have lots of magic items as one got higher in level and needing stronger magic items to deal with stronger monsters/opponents/demons etc.

RevenantBacon

17:09

Well to be fair, wasn't there something in 1/2e about getting experience based on gold that was looted?

lisardggY

1e. I think 2e either made it optional or removed it altogether.

KorvinStarmast

17:26

@RevenantBacon That began in OD&D original and moved into AD&D 1e. IIRC, 2e changed it. It was also in Basic/BX.

Bardic Wizard

17:38

On an unrelated note, the club president of our d&d club asked the gms by email who’d be willing to help out with club leadership and I volunteered

he also asked if people had ideas for improving the club and I said I don’t want the club to be “d&d5e or 4e” club, I want to introduce people to indie rpgs or at least something not d&d (there’s a kid who sounds interested in shadowrun, which I want to run a game in, and a couple interested in Lady Blackbird which I mentioned in the email thread)

AncientSwordRage

17:56

@BardicWizard awesome

Bardic Wizard

I got at least one other person to agree with me so...

goodguy5

fyi, got a job offer

NautArch

@goodguy5 mazel tov!! Is it one you're interested in?

Bardic Wizard

@goodguy5 yay!!

goodguy5

@NautArch yes! I didn't quite get to the "applying for things that will make me sad so that I don't end up homeless" stage

nitsua60

18:01

@RevenantBacon In my (possibly Samaritan) recollection, in the old days it wasn't the gold being looted that gained one XP, it was the usage of the gold in non-advancement ways that got one XP.

In other words, if I loot 1Kgp that's not yet XP. If I spend it on healing potions and better armor and spell components, that's not XP.

RevenantBacon

@nitsua60 but if you spend it on hookers and blow, that's exp?

nitsua60

But if I donate it to the local library so they can establish a "nitsua collection," or throw a feast for the town, or build myself a manor, that's XP.

NautArch

@goodguy5 woohoo! That's great, though man. ANd don't have to move?

goodguy5

nah

nitsua60

Something that increases my reputation/renown in the world.

RevenantBacon

18:02

@goodguy5 nice

@nitsua60 what if it's a legendary amount of hookers and blow?

:p

nitsua60

@goodguy5 \o/

AncientSwordRage

@goodguy5 YAY

goodguy5

@RevenantBacon my kind of thinking

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 That's Arneson's original idea, which turned into XP recovered from the dungeon and successfully pulled out = XP in OD&D.

In AD&D 1e EGG threw in "and you have to spend this much of it over two weeks to actually level up" because, well, I think he realized that Dave was onto something there ...

@RevenantBacon I like the cut of your jib ...

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast But probably left out the influential reasoning behind it. And thus begins the process we're talking about, of superficial elements surviving long after their reasoning's been forgotten.

KorvinStarmast

18:14

@nitsua60 Yep, kind of like some traditions in the Navy 😉

nitsua60

(And I say I'm the Samaritan!)

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 Unlike the knights in (Clive Owen version) serving King Arthur, who were Sarmatians ...

RevenantBacon

Not to be confused with those guys from Area 51 that are Somemartians

KorvinStarmast

Those guys in Area 51 are frequently confused ...

nitsua60

18:30

@KorvinStarmast I feel like some day we should make a canonical "what some grognards liked about 0e/BX/1e" list. For me it'd be XP = gold spent not on character's possessions; Law-Chaos is a cosmic war; much simpler characters --> your character's what you do at the table rather than what you abilities you have; by L8 you're a national figure; encumbrance --> you need a home base --> you're connected to a place --> NPCs recur very naturally --> motives are natural and local.

2

(Though, I suppose at some point I've just described reinventing OSR....)

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 sort of; what I like most is the fear of death; and not getting too wrapped up emotionally in 1 character; having a stable of characters to play; having characters of diferent levels in each party, Exploration being so important "How do we get around this obstacle, anyway?" and hirelings/henchmen. Your point on "you have a stake in how {this place} fares" was a key to our fun.

(BTW that was becoming emergent as we ToA'd with our chatizen group, the sense of 'taking care of this place' but it took a while as our party changed)

Thomas Markov

@Carcer I've addressed your concerns re: dopplegangers.

Thomas Markov

18:51

@Axoren NautArch is going to say something about your question, just watch

Axoren

I expect this question to be an annoyance.

I had trouble asking it any other way

KorvinStarmast

@Axoren I dropped a comment for you, I think it needs a small increase in specificity

KorvinStarmast

19:13

@Axoren FWIW, and this is just my opinion, I think your edits did improve it.

Axoren

@KorvinStarmast @NautArch add a comment | show 10 more comments

10 more comments :O

@KorvinStarmast I don't know by how much. Asking that question was complicated.

KorvinStarmast

I got rid of my comments since you have answered them.

Axoren

It's a very specific thing I'm asking, so I don't expect there to be too many more options

KorvinStarmast

@Axoren Yep. As I said in a meta a few times, asking questions on this site is a bit of an art ...

OK, all my comments be gone.

Axoren

@KorvinStarmast Oh my god, there were even more than 10 comments before you started removing? :O

I feel like that's a record for my questions

KorvinStarmast

19:15

I wasn't counting, but I threw quite a few in there, and you responded ...

@Axoren ... which is what comments are for. Clarification. Which we did. :)

And I think that there's a small enough set of things in an answer that it is no way a list question ... are you trying to solve this from a DM perspective or a player perspective?

@Axoren It appears that the criteria include "Neither the PCs nor the NPCs expend the fancy and costly resources needed to cast this spell but the spell happens." Right?

Axoren

@KorvinStarmast In regards to Planar Ally, I assumed paying the Ally was seen as a Material Cost, I can update the question but I'm about to be away from the PC.

KorvinStarmast

heh, @guildbounty to the rescue, as usual ...

@Axoren looks like you and gb caught that ...

Axoren

19:48

A lot of unvoiced -1s on that question that have me wondering what else I'd need to meet standards.

This is a tough question to ask for me because it is so specific.

At the very least, @guildsbounty came up with some good. They're probably getting the accept at the end of the day. I'm just waiting to see if more options are posted before I accept.

NautArch

20:43

@Axoren I think the real issue is you led with your solutions rather than the problem. This is sort of an X-Y issue.

Your actual problem is you are travelling somewhere that you don't think will give you access to required material components.

You also didn't tell us what level you are, what magic items you have access to or that you have historically had access to.

But instead of talking to your DM about potential concerns so you can work on solutions, you jumped with a guess to the solution and asking others to parse the material to find it for you.

Axoren

@NautArch I'm somewhat confused, because while that is my expectation, I presented a fairly straight forward problem. Should we find gold and diamonds, then we can just have our Bard cast Revivify or Raise Dead. However, should we not, what other alternatives are there?

My problem is either X or Y, but we have a solution to X so that's why I'm asking about how to solve Y.

RevenantBacon

I'm disowning my boss. Apparently she doesn't like peanut butter

NautArch

@Axoren You presented a potential solution for your problem and asked for the ways to do it. It really is better to present the problem.

Axoren

X is access to Raise Dead when we have components. Y is access to Raise Dead when we don't have components.

@NautArch Where? I tried searching beforehand.

Also, the linked question did not answer that question.

NautArch

@Axoren Sorry, the linked question you had definitely is not a dupe.

But your question is also not the problem. It's asking how to do solution A for the problem. Asking for the problem is a much better path.

Axoren

20:48

Then the problem is that I have already broken my overall problem into sub-problems and am only asking for a solution to one sub-problem?

NautArch

No kthe problem is you didn't desribe the problem. YOu described a solution and asked for ways to do that.

Someone_Evil

Your dissection of the problem might not be optimal and masks what the core problem actually is

NautArch

But the solution is just a parsing of the text to find those things - something you could do, too.

And yes, @Someone_Evil Hits it on the head as well.

The core problem isn't "find me all the cases that fits this, even if they don't match my part makeup". It's the problem you clarified in the comments regarding your travel plans.

Axoren

@NautArch I've only come up with a couple on my own from doing my own search. guild and Please found others I couldn't find.

NautArch

@Axoren I'm just trying to explain my view and some of the community members who may agree with it by the closure.

Axoren

20:50

That's fair, of course.

NautArch

It remains your choice to keep as-is or to listen. If you don't want the input, don't ask for it by saying you're getting unvoiced downvotes.

That's actually the main reason why people don't provide that input.

Axoren

This is actually 100% what I wanted to hear from my statement about "unvoiced downvotes"

Thomas Markov

I'll add, I've historically had great success in improving my questions and answers by following NautArch's advice.

Axoren

Because otherwise, I wasn't sure what the take was

I don't want the downvotes gone, just wanted a why because it seemed straight forward.

NautArch

I mean, do you have anyone in your party that is a cleric for Divine Intervention? Or that can cast wish or the other spells? Or can use the Rod of Resurrection? Can you respec someone to be a zealot barbarian?

I didnt upvote that answer because I'm not sure it's actually applicable to your problem.

@Axoren Sure, but if you debate back and don't accept the input, then it's just a debate/argument. And that's what we don't want.

And why I did it here rather than in comments.

Axoren

20:53

We have a Bard that could eventually cast Wish. I'm a Rogue Thief and can eventually get Use Magic Device for the Rod and Scrolls.

Roughly around the same time.

Also, the Bard can learn Planar Ally, Conjure Celestial, etc.

Thomas Markov

@Axoren You're going to be away from diamond shops long enough for the Bard to reach 18th level?

The Oracle

0

Q: Preventing questions here causing spoilers for players

Several of my players also peruse this resource. Do any of the DMs who use this have any suggestions or advice to ensure questions I ask here regarding plot specific campaign details don’t spoil things for those players?

NautArch

That's a lot of eventually that sounds like it may not be applicable or available for when you need it.

Which makes that answer...not helpful.

Axoren

From what it sounds like, we'll be gone until they can learn Raise Dead from Magical Secrets

Err, Resurrection

NautArch

This is why it's important to describe the circumstance and the details necessary to make the answer useful.

Axoren

20:55

So, 6th and 7th level options are ideal.

NautArch

Put all that information in. But again, I'd describe the problem, not the potential solution. Let the community come up with solutions - you may be surprised.

Someone_Evil

Please include the details like the sitch in your comment reply to mine, party composition, presumed campaign spanning to your question.

Thomas Markov

@Axoren so 18th level options don't solve your problem at all, they're just trivia related to your proposed solution.

NautArch

But give us the party make up, level, spells currently known, and any other relevant detail tot he word you're in.

Do you get access to purchase magical items? Because if you can buy those, why can't you buy diamonds?

ANd if you can't, then those answers aren't useful.

Also, what happened to that original dragon question?

@Someone_Evil ^

Someone_Evil

I also like the assumption that you aren't going to find material components for spells

NautArch

20:57

Because we really should dupe the new one to it.

@Someone_Evil @Axoren That's a real concern. Any spell with a material component that is destroyed or has a cost sounds like it may be a problem.

Someone_Evil

@NautArch Self-deleted

NautArch

@Someone_Evil We really should open it and dupe the new one to itl

These workarounds to fixing questions are not good in my opinion.

2

Axoren

That's something we were worried about up-front. Before plane-hopping the first time, we made sure everyone had magic weapons, just in case.

There's some incense we can use in the Party Pack for Legend Lore, but we'd be lacking a couple of components for the Bard and Warlock

NautArch

@Someone_Evil It isn't an entirely new question. It's a clarification question of what was originally asked. It should be reopened and edited with the newer one duped to it, no?

Axoren

We plan to solve the Greater Restoration being off the table by Summoning a Couatl with Conjure Celestial when they get it.

Warlock is planning to take the invocation for Truesight instead of casting it.

NautArch

21:01

@Axoren First question - your DM allows you to pick the summoned creature?

Axoren

It's the only available option

Unless you upcast it

Oh, nvm. My mistake.

Pegasus is another option

NautArch

yep

or two new ones from Theros

Thomas Markov

It just says the GM has the celestial's statistics.

Doesnt say what it is.

Axoren

our tables doesn't play with Ravnica or Theros, generally.

NautArch

18

Q: How do you determine which beast appears during the Conjure Animals spell?

According to the spell "Conjure Animals" on P. 225 of the PHB, the description states: Choose one of the following options for what appears [...] Besides selecting one or more beasts based on the challenge rating, how do you determine exactly which beast appears? Is this a random roll by t...

dnd-5e spells summoning

Axoren

21:03

@ThomasMarkov I don't understand what you mean by that

NautArch

Basically, it's up to the DM. Most I think let the caster choose, but some just let the caster conjure and they as DM decides what appears.

Axoren

I know one of the DMs in our group allows picking, but for balance purposes, we have a Treaty of Paris that restricts combat usage of Conjure spells

Giant Centipedes were out-performing nearly every character.

NautArch

Does that treaty extend to out of combat as well?

for important stuff (like this)

Axoren

Two out of three DMs don't mind. The other (this one) hasn't had an opinion on it yet.

NautArch

That's an easy fix (Because again I think MOst DMs generally let caster pick)

But the other issues we've described are real.

Axoren

21:06

A lot of stuff was mixed along the discussions in chat that I couldn't keep up with simult. I need to scroll up and give everything a fair read before I do anything to the question.

NautArch

It's totally okay to delete a question while you work on it.

Someone_Evil

Bit tricky when there's an answer with upvotes on it

NautArch

@Someone_Evil Well, we're there now, but not earlier.

Someone_Evil

Meta what in particular?

NautArch

nevermind!

Bardic Wizard

21:15

Argh anyone know how to go back in time?

Axoren

@BardicWizard forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Time_conduit

Bardic Wizard

i’m gonna stab the entire Renaissance

2

Hot RPG Questions

7

Q: Can you stand up from prone while stunned?

If you are Stunned, your movement isn't reduced to 0 (unlike grappled.) Can you stand up from prone while Stunned? Can you also drop prone from standing? Stunned A stunned creature is incapacitated (see the condition), can’t move, and can speak only falteringly. The creature automatically fails...

dnd-5e conditions prone

Mark Wells

@BardicWizard You have my sword.

Axoren

@MarkWells If he goes back it time, doesn't look like you'll be getting it back.

Bardic Wizard

21:17

Oh, I’ve got swords

Mark Wells

@Axoren I'll look for it in the "Stabbing of the Entire Renaissance" wing at the Smithsonian.

Axoren

And when the security guards try to stop you: "That's my sword! I don't know you!"

Carcer

@ThomasMarkov so noted; I have counter-addressed your addressal

Bardic Wizard

@Axoren I appreciate the thought, but I’d really prefer if you used they/them for me in general i get misgendered enough IRL

@MarkWells except that wing might not exist if I get Cosmo de Medici early enough

Axoren

@BardicWizard My apologies. I still default to the default he from time to time and I should work on that.

Too late to edit.

Bardic Wizard

21:39

@Axoren don’t worry about it, I’m frustrated and it’s been a Day

Axoren

History class been giving you grief?

NautArch

@BardicWizard are you actually in live person school?

Bardic Wizard

@Axoren Gee, how could you ever guess?

Axoren

Just be glad it's over. Studying current events in later school years gets so much more complicated as the interpretations of those events may change before your exams as new information comes to light.

Bardic Wizard

@NautArch no, all virtual, thank Tiamat

Carcer

21:41

I go to the dead person school

NautArch

@BardicWizard ah, how's that going?

Bardic Wizard

@NautArch pain and suffering

Axoren

@Carcer RIP

NautArch

heh...so normal high school

Mark Wells

@KorvinStarmast :nod: The big sticking point I have with more recent D&D is the way it's made designing your character into the essential expressive activity. You're supposed to painstakingly sculpt your perfect jewel of a character, then bring it to the table to show it off.

Axoren

21:42

History only changes whenever some anthropologist/historian finds some rare dirt on some past historical figure.

Bardic Wizard

by which I mean I spend seven hours a day on various video calls if you count club meetings and still have homework

NautArch

@MarkWells Sounds like a TPK is needed

Axoren

@MarkWells Most of those personality/bond things are optional. They're tools for new players who are trying to get into the Roleplaying aspect.

NautArch

I honestly think that too much time is already spent in character backstory.

3

Mark Wells

@NautArch Under the game mechanics, a TPK is almost the only thing that can permanently change your character at all.

NautArch

21:46

True dat

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, bad phone number in answer, email in answer, messaging number in answer, +2 more (540): How do the Death Ward spell and the half-orc's Relentless Endurance racial trait interact? by Joan hardy on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)

NautArch

We also very rarely have utilized resurrection methods. Revivify yes, others, no.

When we die, we roll up new characters.

Axoren

@NautArch Backstories are always really tough for lower-level campaigns. As a DM, I used to have to remind some of our newest players that their characters couldn't have too many grand heroic deeds in there because they're level 1.

NautArch

I tend to make my characters, have a really simple reason why they are there, and then develop them as I play and interact with the other characters and story.

Axoren

What are you supposed to put in your backstory at Level 1? The names of potential kidnapping targets for the DM to leverage over you?

"Oh no! You've rolls dice killed my rolls dice aunt!"

That's a good approach and one I'm taking in Rime.

NautArch

21:51

It really works for Rime. I keep envisioning that as Alaska meets Antarctica. You get the reasons for why folks move to Alaska and/or work in North Sea fishing and the weather of antarctica.

Axoren

I'm a newly fledged acolyte with a grand goal and no reasonable expectation on how to achieve it as of yet. That goal and delusion of grandeur has me traveling all the way to Icewind Dale from Deeping Dale.

Once our Dungeon of the Upset Magic Dude ends, we're gonna switch gears to Rime.

Someone_Evil

I like to think of backstory as having two parts. One is what has happened to the character which is helpful for the player to (role)play them, the other is Personal story which has yet to happen, and is useful for the DM to help integrate them into the story/campaign. I found actually pointing this out (and asking for both parts) helped against players only producing the former, leaving little to work with

NautArch

And, of course, this all heavily relies on a DM that can integrate those stories. Which I haven't yet found in my area. I'm going to try and do it, but so far, I think that's one of the hardest things about DMing.

Axoren

A Call to Action of sorts?

Bardic Wizard

@Axoren my level 6 sorcerer, Fiametta Contadine, who I mention a lot about here, has about 2 sections in her backstory. 1: the people related to her who she cares about (3 that are currently alive), and 2, the false identities she has and their histories

NautArch

21:54

I can integrate and improvise players working in the world, but really hard to bring in their personal stuff on my own.

Bardic Wizard

nothing about her history...

Axoren

@BardicWizard False identities is always a huge part of Shadowrun for me. You might enjoy that system if you like that style of play.

Every time I take a job from a Johnson, I wear a different face and use a different fake sin.

If one gets burned, I sell it to some poor sap that needs a new identity.

The big thing I think new players have with making characters is they lack that second part, you're talking about, @Someone_Evil. Players' call to actions are either nonexistent (I live a really comfortable life in Whiterun as a farmer) or they have a really vague one that without any gravity or reckoning (I want to go on an adventure, take me anywhere).

Bardic Wizard

@Axoren our d&d game is slowly turning into “shadowrun in d&d”

NautArch

Mostly I try and ask my players "What does your character want to do or be?"

Axoren

@BardicWizard Sounds wonderful, lol.

NautArch

21:58

What is a large future goal

Mark Wells

@Axoren Again I recommend "You owe 20,000 gold pieces to Jabba the Hutt."

NautArch

@MarkWells trademark violation! I think you mean Habba the Jutt.

Axoren

@NautArch For my character? I want to find the Time Conduit rumored to be in a cave somewhere in the Spine of the World.

And I want to use it to visit Myth Drannor in its prime.

This gives me a reason for going to Icewind Dale for the long haul. A life's quest where the adventure with this group can be a side-quest.

Mark Wells

@NautArch Jabbi, King of the Danes

Axoren

For a normal player, a big goal would probably be to become a Royal Guard Captain to the king. For which they need a history of deeds that make them standout among their fellow soldiers.

Mark Wells

22:04

> Note: I am aware of a separate manuscript tradition wherein Hani throws his axe only after Gríðó throws his, but this appears to be a clumsy later emendation made by medieval editors who wished to present Hólmgǫngu-Hani in a more chivalric light. That same manuscript tradition has a scene where King Jabbi confronts Hani in Mósæsli.

Axoren

The adventure being a means to satisfy that goal.

Bardic Wizard

See, if I were playing through RotFM with Fiametta (unlikely but for this example), her goal in doing this would be different for each identity, but the true reason may well be “if I do this I learn about my magic and I don’t have to deal with Açaí for a few weeks”

(açaí is the magic dude who’s the reason other adventures started in her home timeline and also trying to kill the party a bit)

Axoren

@BardicWizard RotFM would actually be the best campaign for such a character because of the secret system. Everyone's paranoid. Everyone's got something to hide. But you'd have so many more things to hide. Especially even if all your identities have a different secret

Might feel oppressive or liberating.

Or anywhere in between.

Bardic Wizard

Her false identities (Gianetta, Tessa, and the rest) would claim other reasons (“for the h*ck of it/because money”, and “because I have a farm”, and “if I don’t deal with it someone else gets the glory”, respectively)

Axoren

We haven't even started playing and we're all already on edge, in a good way.

Bardic Wizard

22:14

@Axoren all my identities have at least one goal that disagrees with Fia’s main goal just to keep people guessing. Most of them are also hiding something

Axoren

My Warlock's current goal in Dungeon of the Angry Boi is that he wants to kill the Angry Boi because it will further the goal of the Sun of eventually consuming the planet. Halaster is seen by the Sun as a source of "darkness" that will stave off the Sun when the time comes.

This gives him a reason for wanting to travel with the party as far down as they'll go.

We actually had a new player try to join one of our games and he was not prepared for what we very accurately described as "grimdark murder nomads"

Eventually, he realized how hard it was to justify his character joining us when we started systematically beheading bandits after a skirmish and not letting a single one escape.

He was expecting a much more light-hearted game and had no character reason for why he would put up with how gritty we were.

Having a goal or a trajectory eventually helped him figure things out.

It would also help if maybe we sold ourselves better initially on just how dark the campaign already was as a result of us.

But many of the characters in our party had grown fond of the group because we had plenty of reasons initially to work together.

We have a new new player now finding themselves fitting in a lot better because they have that reason to cooperate with us.

We get results and he's been wanting some.

He's an investigator whos case involves our planehopping.

Bardic Wizard

22:31

That’s fair. Our group goes between “lets blow this up and make a nuclear reactor with the pieces” and “okay, lets do something else stupid now“

Axoren

I think long ago, we used someone as a battery? Never made a nuclear reactor before.

Bardic Wizard

So i get that cause the last time we had a new player they didn’t get why we weren’t going to follow the plot the GM had in the adventure module

@Axoren it was only 85% theoretical

Axoren

Oh boy... Dungeon of the Mad Mage has been a ride. We were actually playing Dragon Heist overlapping with Dungeon of the Mad Mage because when I joined, the group had decided that their ultimate goal would be to become a Criminal Enterprise centered around the branding of a Tiger they stole completely unrelated to the goal of the Dragon Heist.

Bardic Wizard

the plans looked like this: wall of water, daylight spell, a steady source of enriched uranium, boom

Axoren

We call ourselves Tiger Gang and pretend to be in a Trademark battle with a completely different Tiger Gang

@BardicWizard That sounds like a lot of spell slots. Fabricate to make a reactor works slightly easier.

Bardic Wizard

22:36

Yeah but fabricate doesn’t get it started

Axoren

Also, we solve most of our encounters with Battle of the Bands-type combat and making deals with encounters to go fight other encounters for us.

Bardic Wizard

the main problem was that we don’t have a basement to build it in and I got vetoed when I suggested the middle of the living room

Axoren

Can Fabricate Dig a basement?

I think in 5e, it can. Perfect for home extensions.

Bardic Wizard

The city zoning laws would like a word with us now

Axoren

Don't lose hope. Eventually, you'll get your DM to say "I'm not allowing Nuclear Fission in-universe" like every debate about Prestidigitation and Mage Hand

"I'm only applying 5 lbs. of force, just doing it really really specifically on this point right here points at electron microscope"

Bardic Wizard

22:41

Between us, our group has enough science/engineering/pure math knowledge to come up with these ideas and research them, just not do them IRL (except explosions. Only one party member has had more explosion-related incidents than me, IRL or in game)

Mine are 75% IRL and 22% in game

Don’t ask about the other 3%

Hot RPG Questions

23:09

3

Q: What is the year in Dale Reckoning for Rime of the Frostmaiden?

Various internet sources claim to set the new Icewind Dale adventure at 1450s Dale Reckoning time, and I'm trying to pin down when it actually takes place. From Rime of the Frostmaiden: Assuming a few years past before Auril returned, I'm assuming the intended setting for this is approximately 1...

dnd-5e forgotten-realms rime-of-the-frostmaiden

BESW

@nitsua60 Thanks! Though, my friend is specifically looking for ethical third-party publishers.

@lisardggY For "adventurers as social outcasts" I think of Sundown.

It's a queer/disability allegory about how being ostracized by spaces which demand you lie about yourself to be accepted, is actually an empowering opportunity.

Bardic Wizard

23:33

@BESW the entire description there, possibly excluding the “empowering opportunity” bit is high school.

BESW

@BardicWizard Yeah, but the "empowering opportunity" bit is the focus.

Bardic Wizard

I wish that was the case in high school

user15026

Yeah, it's about us being able to be our whole selves despite the world being itself.

user15026

And not wanting us at all.

BESW

It's set in a world with the usual marginalizations around atypical bodies/minds/attractions. Transhuman body modification is available but using it merits marginalization too. So people who modify themselves to be more true to themselves, AND people who don't modify themselves to conform to "normal" standards, are both cast to the edges of society. The game is about the people who live in those edges, and how it's better to make your own way in the edges and make your own center.

Bardic Wizard

23:38

That sounds nice

BESW

It's a very approachable game, even while its subject matter can get very intense.

It'd be easy to play it as survival horror, with the dominant society as the monsters.

Bardic Wizard

If I haven’t mentioned it, I can’t wait till I’m out of the Abyss that is high school (there’s too much chaos and layers to be the Nine H*lls)

BESW

I sympathize!

user15026

@BardicWizard I feel you - as someone who is very glad to be well beyond school as an institution and all it entails - I hope you make your way through it with a minimum of uglienss, and find your way to better things in the world :)

user15026

(I think anyone who tells you those are the best days of your life is super, super wrong.)

BESW

23:44

Yeeeah, I had a pretty decent time in school but I'd never claim it was a particular high-water mark for life.

user15026

HS was...not good for me, and I am much happier now, many moons past it. (15 years? Something like that. I am bad at math.)

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast I'd agree with all the things you mentioned, too. And I think ToA definitely had the elements to feel that way. (Both the written elements and the party elements.) The challenge, of course, with the hardcovers, is that the moment you mention a published title there's a narrative line already established that has a serious gravitational pull.

@BardicWizard Huey Lewis.

Hot RPG Questions

5

Q: What skill is used to recognise someone?

Consider for example a character hears a voice recording of someone, such as a recording that a journalist made of an interview. Later the character coincidentally meets someone who spoke in that recording. What should they be called to roll to see if they can recognise the character by the voice...

skills dresden-files

nitsua60

23:59

@NautArch When I ran it the whole table was very happy with the "you don't necessarily have a reason to be here, you just have bunches of reasons to not be other places" line.

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