TRPG General Chat

user15026

00:32

@BESW Oh, I like this. I like this a lot.

AncientSwordRage

01:14

@Ash same here

nitsua60

02:29

5 hours ago, by Rubiksmoose

Delete site. Problem solved!

^^ I'm away for, what, like two days!?

KorvinStarmast

02:47

@MikeQ which tasted like chicken, or rather, had an aftertaste like chicken

Joel Harmon

@AncientSwordRage This is one of my favourite youtube videos on that: youtube.com/watch?v=-8mzWkuOxz8

Adeptus

03:08

@kviiri Same with Egyptian hieroglyphics (or so Stargate tells me)

Bardic Wizard

04:46

Good evening!!

BESW

[wave]

kviiri

05:29

Good morning o/

kviiri

06:21

I got a message from one of my former RPG table mates that her GM had inserted one of our earlier DnD adventures in their current game as a legend, that was fun to hear

BESW

06:44

Oh, nice! I think there's still a set of Pathfinder campaigns somewhere out there based on the D&D worlds I ran in university.

kviiri

07:00

@Adeptus Hieroglyphs have some extra interesting things with them because the same symbols were used both as logograms and syllabulary-alphabet hybrid

I haven't watched any Stargåte yet

Using the å is a bit of an internet meme here because it's an actual letter in our alphabet and makes the word pronounce funnily

Adeptus

It's a plot point in the movie. The humans on the other world speak a language based on Ancient Egyptian, but the linguist doesn't recognise it at first because the vowels are different. He learns their dialect by reading hieroglyphics and being corrected on pronunciation by a local.

Yuuki

I thought the plot point was that the glyph was a depiction of a constellation from the viewpoint of a place that wasn't Earth?

Or am I thinking of a different Stargate?

BESW

07:17

Both are points from the same film.

(well, sort of.)

AncientSwordRage

10:25

\oo//

AncientSwordRage

10:38

Is there a good dupe target amongst these:
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/139940/what-counts-as-willing-movement
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/114650/would-a-frightened-fleeing-creature-be-considered-moving-willingly
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/60618/does-fear-induced-movement-count-as-moving-willingly
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/13481/is-teleporting-a-creature-considered-forced-movement-of-said-creature

Someone_Evil

10:51

Well the latter two are for 4e and thus not duplicates

AncientSwordRage

....

you passed the test (ughhh how did I miss that)

Someone_Evil

Don't worry, you can blame it on our terrible habit of only including that information as a tag

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil fair enough

I thought it was odd we had so many different questions and answers

Thomas Markov

11:57

ayyyyy

@Someone_Evil you around?

Someone_Evil

Yes, need anything?

Thomas Markov

Yeah can we start a room or move somewhere less public for a minute

The Oracle

12:57

1

Q: Pathfinder sources: aonprd vs d20pfsrd

We have already had a similar discussion years ago, when the official SRD was Paizo's own PRD. Now things have changed. Archives of Nethys (henceforth AON) is a community-mantained, errata-including SRD just as d20pfsrd.com (henceforth PFSRD) A question asking about preferences between AON and th...

RevenantBacon

13:19

I don't know why this is even a rule, we can obviously tell he's talking about 5e Warlock. Just add the 5e tag instead of voting to close. rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/174301/…

KorvinStarmast

@RevenantBacon Indeed. I was thinking of doing that since the direct quote from PHB is a contextual clue. Thanks for beating me to it. I just had not opened my SRD yet to make sure the words matched.

RevenantBacon

The fact that the name of the system was in the title should also have been a clue :p

KorvinStarmast

All it said was D&D, and wasn't Hexblade in a different edition?

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon Policy is still policy.

KorvinStarmast

I could have sworn that either 3 or 4 had a hexblade. Maybe my brain is misfiring.

@ThomasMarkov Contextual clues allow for adding the tag, blind adherence to a contested 'policy' is how we get arguments on meta that don't go anywhere. Five years RPGSE experience with that. :(

No harm was done to the site by doing this. The PHB text matches perfectly.

Thomas Markov

13:27

@KorvinStarmast I have been told time and time again that this doesnt matter and that we should not add the tag.

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov Let me offer you a link. Revenant Bacon had a clear contextual clue.

Thomas Markov

@KorvinStarmast That link agrees with me...

KorvinStarmast

See also doppelgreener's answer which was posted when doppel was a diamond mod and got more votes than mine

See also Seven Sided Die's answer further down in that thread.

Thomas Markov

@KorvinStarmast Yeah those are about when the question only specifies "5e", not when the question only specifies "D&D".

RevenantBacon

@ThomasMarkov If a policy is widely know to be a bad policy, it shouldn't be blindly followed. This policy needs to change, I have personally seen it be detrimantal in several situations

KorvinStarmast

13:34

@RevenantBacon +1 to RB. Also, for @ThomasMarkov I think this comment under my answer is worth pondering

RevenantBacon

@ThomasMarkov do you know of any other edition in which there is a Hexblade patron for the Warlock, or a Pact of the Blade class feature?

Thomas Markov

"If a policy is widely know to be a bad policy" the policy only exists because it is just as widely known to be a good policy so...

OP just added a tag - "d20-system"

RevenantBacon

@ThomasMarkov uuhhhhh..... if you say so...

kviiri

@RevenantBacon It is... not widely known to be a bad policy, That is, to my knowledge, every time it has been discussed in Meta it has gotten considerable support over alternatives offered.

3

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov and dnd-5e

Thomas Markov

13:36

@AncientSwordRage Yeah, retracted close vote.

kviiri

That said, it's obvious that it's nowhere near as uncontroversial as it has been and I predict something's going to change about it.

RevenantBacon

Oh, wow, it's almost like we could figure out the system by reading what the OP put in the question and using context to figure it out without guessing

kviiri

@RevenantBacon No need to be snarky.

RevenantBacon

@kviiri I respectfully disagree

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov The PHB text quotes word for word in the text of the question itself. I think that the windmill should be left on its own today; rather than calling for the lance. Not guessing, helping. That's how I see it.

RevenantBacon

13:38

I dislike being told I amwrong when there is solid evidence proving otherwise

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon I don't think you were wrong, I just think the policy should be followed until it is changed by consensus. I personally think its garbage.

kviiri

@RevenantBacon It's not about just that. (I advise you to read the Meta conversations about this because they bring forth solid points that might not be obvious)

AncientSwordRage

@RevenantBacon FWIW I think it's beneficial to teach users to properly tag their questions. Even when it's obvious to us 9/10 times, that 10th time is useful to catch. If we don't follow it those 9 times, we don't catch the 10th time

KorvinStarmast

I'll go and get a cuppa coffee, please let's not go after each other this morning. I got all cross and grumpy a few days ago while I was talking to Ben, and realized a day or so later that I helped nothing and nobody in so doing.

RevenantBacon

@kviiri I have read some of them. I still think they're bad

kviiri

13:41

The "solid evidence" case, for example, being countered by the fact that people by and large are not good at deciding when evidence is solid and when not.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov how does one do that?

RevenantBacon

@kviiri I dunno, a direct quote from a 5e book seems like pretty solid evidence

Thomas Markov

@AncientSwordRage Click the close button again, and there wil be a button for it.

KorvinStarmast

Something from a flight manual I used to have to remind other pilots of:"The procedures in this manual are not a substitute for sound judgment." I think the same can be said about the meta policy in question. @kviiri in this case, the evidence is a word for word quote from the system's PHB.

Please be good to each other, I'm off for that coffee.

kviiri

@RevenantBacon Yes, this case. But if we have a policy saying that "solid evidence" is enough to guess the system, we either have to have a very rigorous guideline on what counts as "solid" or leave it to the users' judgment, which is not fault-proof.

AncientSwordRage

13:43

@ThomasMarkov ah in the same place and same colour as the vote button before voting... ¬_¬

RevenantBacon

@kviiri But it can be done, and I expect it will be less ridiculous than the current policy.

kviiri

You should suggest an alternative on Meta.

RevenantBacon

We can even just add exceptions like "If the OP adds a quote from a one of a systems source books, then the system can be added"

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon I would mash upvote on that so hard.

kviiri

That's one way to do it, but it would only "fix" a small amount of cases, and would be prone to different faults (eg. editions of the same game having identical text as often happens). I personally would like to see something riding less on specific exceptions while still being clear-cut.

Which... might be an impossible goal.

RevenantBacon

13:49

@kviiri I don't know of many systems that do that, and of the few that I do know, the edition is likely to be irrelevant if it's something that got ported over between editions.

AncientSwordRage

@RevenantBacon I think thats a good start, but could be abused if the quotes are too small

kviiri

Also, please be courteous in your language. You're allowed to be critical of the policy but describing it as ridiculous comes off as an insult towards the people who worked on it.

RevenantBacon

@AncientSwordRage It could be, but can we really not trusst userrs to have at least somewhat sound judgement?

AncientSwordRage

5

Q: Can I get some examples of users assuming a question is asking about D&D 5e when it's explicitly tagged as being for another system/edition?

I know this is common, but my google-fu is failing me (particularly since the relevant search field would mostly be in the comment section of deleted answers). Does anyone have some helpful example questions where users posted an answer assuming a question was for D&D 5e when it was already appar...

discussion questions game-systems dnd-5e protected-questions

Thomas Markov

moving on, I took a stab at a month old question with no upvoted answers and id like some feedback.

kviiri

13:52

(and those who supported it – I reiterate that "Don't guess the system" has been consistently the most popular stance for system tagging for several years, and while it doesn't mean it's the best possible policy, it means you should at least try to respect the fact that it's been the community's choice)

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov go on

did it involve some stabbing?

Thomas Markov

protection from stabbin actually

Here's my new answer to "Can you cast tiny hut upside down?"

kviiri

@RevenantBacon Well. I've seen a system being assumed to be "clearly DnD 5e" because it mentioned... I think it was Flurry of Blows? People are generally not good at intuitive conditional probabilistics.

Whether that's a big problem is another matter, of course

AncientSwordRage

new favourite stack picture

3

kviiri

Is that Yoga stack or what?

Someone_Evil

13:58

@AncientSwordRage Now you're thinking with... portals?

Thomas Markov

@kviiri That what happens when you cast tiny hut while standing on your head.

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil Now you're thinking with tiny huts

@ThomasMarkov "Can I cast spells while doing a handstand?"

kviiri

@RevenantBacon Anyway, even though I might sound like I'm trying to oppose your idea, I'm mainly just trying to remind you that the policy, as it is implemented, has a point, possibly to a degree that you haven't considered. I'm not oblivious of the fact that things have changed though, both in terms of public opinion regarding the policy and the general layout of the wider RPG community that we seek to serve.

RevenantBacon

@AncientSwordRage So I looked through this, and it's about people answering questions while ignoring the system tags that were already there. Tangential, but not exactly what I'm talking about

kviiri

The latter meaning: when DnD 5e was new to the markets, it brought in a huge influx of new players that didn't know there were editions of DnD (remember that 5e is notoriously badly edition-labeled) and as fairly common among RPG players, assumed DnD is pretty much all there is to RPGs, or in a weaker form, that every RPG works more or less the same as DnD so it doesn't really matter which one you ask about.

That situation has stabilized now, I guess. People tend to know they're playing 5e, at least I think? Might be just my biased cognition at it.

Thomas Markov

14:02

@AncientSwordRage I'm glad someone appreciates my art.

kviiri

But remembering that the old policy has a point, I urge you to work towards a better solution. Make a proposal, put it in Meta, let the community discuss it.

RevenantBacon

@kviiri I was honestly surprised by how many new players 5e brought in to the game

AncientSwordRage

@kviiri I'm not sure... we just had a user tag with d20-system alongside dnd-5e...

kviiri

@AncientSwordRage Well... isolated incidents will continue to occur, no matter the policy x)

Because it's very likely that the current policy has lived past its prime in the changing landscape of the site and the hobby

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov long may it continue

RevenantBacon

14:05

@AncientSwordRage Well, 5e isn'i it technically a d20 system?

Someone_Evil

@AncientSwordRage Easy mistake to make when you're asked to add your "system" and all you really know is yours is d20 based

AncientSwordRage

@RevenantBacon no that tag is for a separate system that's an offshoot of dnd-3.5e

@Someone_Evil yup!

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon D20 system is a partiuclar thing. Not just "any system where you roll d20s".

RevenantBacon

@AncientSwordRage I thought it was the base system owned by Wizards that was then used to make 3.5e, 5e, PF, etc.

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon Here you can read the tag description.

AncientSwordRage

14:06

@RevenantBacon There's no base system AFAIK

at least not in the sense that it can be owned

RevenantBacon

@ThomasMarkov My understanding of the D20 System is that it was a framework, owned by Wizards (and I think licensed out in the OGL), that was used to make 3.5, PF 1e, 5e, D20 Modern, M&M, and so on.

Thomas Markov

14:21

@RevenantBacon I cant find anywhere that links d20 to 5e

RevenantBacon

@ThomasMarkov I may have been wrong. It's possible that it doesn't count as "d20" officially because they've changed so many mechanics

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov IS "What editions of D&D are covered by the d20 system?" a main or meta question?

RevenantBacon

@AncientSwordRage That feels like a main question, unless we're changing tags

Thomas Markov

Main for sure, and a good one, I think.

AncientSwordRage

I've had a stab at it

Thomas Markov

14:38

@AncientSwordRage I'm not sure "covered by" is the best way to ask it. created from or based on might be more what were looking for.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov derived from?

Thomas Markov

That seems better to me, at least.

AncientSwordRage

I'm happy to have it edited to pieces, and you can quote me on that

Rubiksmoose

Not to bring up a controversial topic again but I do feel this needs to be clarified. The most recent meta on "system guessing" very narrowly upheld the standing policy: "if OP doesn't tell us explicitly and unambiguously what system they are playing and it is necessary for the question we do not add that information for them". We expect people to continue to follow that until such time as meta consensus says that we should not.

And note that I say this as a person that has written answers in support of overturning or modifying the policy so I completely understand where dissenters are coming from.

We have a couple things in the oven that may help us move forward on this issue, but that's where it stands for now.

As always if a borderline case appears, bring it up on Meta and we can talk about it.

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose mmmmmmmmm ovened goods

Rubiksmoose

14:46

@AncientSwordRage Which reminds me I should go check on my bread!

To see if my emergancy fix actually fixed it...

Rubiksmoose

15:11

hmmmm maybe. Just have to wait and see if it rises now that it isn't a puddle XD

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose what needed fixing?

RevenantBacon

@Rubiksmoose And what was the fix applied?

GcL

@Rubiksmoose Is there a policy page somewhere? If so, provide a link to that from the tour? or somewhere I can get an unambiguous list of rules?

Someone_Evil

I think those things are all being worked on in various ways (though I don't think we can add links to the tour, but are adding to the main help center page)

AncientSwordRage

@GcL this is a bone of contention on meta.so

Rubiksmoose

15:25

@AncientSwordRage So, the recipe I was using was a high hydration dough which I've never really done before. It looked pretty liquidy but I figured it was just something that came with being high hydration and that after fermentation and folding it would have more structure and strength. Well I poured it out today and it was a puddle. No structure at all. And no structure means no gas capture -> no bread.

@RevenantBacon So I just added a bunch of flour, some commercial yeast (in addition to the sourdough I had started with) and kneaded it until it felt better.

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon I merged my two answers.

Rubiksmoose

So maybe I'll get some bread out of this yet lol

RevenantBacon

@ThomasMarkov Yup, just saw

AncientSwordRage

meta is a great way to discuss/vote on policy (so long as it doesn't come down from on high), but it's a poor way to catalogue and define exact policy

2

Rubiksmoose

^

Thomas Markov

15:26

@RevenantBacon Felt weird have two different answers like that.

GcL

We expect people to follow rules that are difficult to find, when you do find one (in ~~purgatory~~ meta), it might not be the most recent, and even if there you go with the highest voted answer, it's surrounded by dissent?

Rubiksmoose

@GcL In short: no. Various ways we try to fix that is that you can navigate faq for example to get a gist, but we have no landing page for all the rules and polices and guidelines.

GcL

So how do I find out what the current rules are?

Rubiksmoose

The easiest way would be to ask :-/

GcL

And I get to accept whatever answer I get?

I like this system.

Thomas Markov

15:28

@GcL unknowingly break one of them of course.

RevenantBacon

The Help Center ( rpg.stackexchange.com/help ) has some stuff. Maybe some work should be put in to making it more comprehensive?

GcL

Someone ask me what the rules are.

Thomas Markov

@GcL Hey bud, what are the rules round these parts?

Rubiksmoose

@GcL XD

RevenantBacon

@ThomasMarkov The first rule is: never talk about the rules

Oh no

We've already borked it

GcL

15:30

@ThomasMarkov O'Doyle Rules!

2

Someone_Evil

@AncientSwordRage I'd argue that we mostly operate on (best) practices, which are much harder to pin down. At current count we have two policies as far as I've found (never guess the system, and wait 72h for homebrew review iterations), I'd love additions though

Rubiksmoose

Well I guess we have to destroy @RevenantBacon's account now!

RevenantBacon

@Rubiksmoose Aww shucks. Guess this is the end for me chaps

Someone_Evil

7

Q: Main help center page: Question collection and voting

Coming from this question what to put on the main help center page, the suggestion is to have a (relativly short) list with important meta questions to help introduce new (and network) users to our site and our practises. This question is for determining which questions to put on, which may inclu...

discussion help-center

*cough*

Rubiksmoose

@RevenantBacon It was a good run lol

GcL

15:31

Do you need a lozenge?

Rubiksmoose

@Someone_Evil Agreed!

Someone_Evil

And I guess specifically this suggestion of mine which I'm working on the Q&A for

Rubiksmoose

@ThomasMarkov mentioned it earlier, but honestly the way we teach people in practice is to tell them when they've run afoul of something. To be honest, that would probably be the case no matter how well documented our guidelines were because generally, people don't read stuff before getting involved.

GcL

Sneaky links to meta! You're not going to ~~rickroll~~ catch me!

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil Who're you calling Dummy? :-p

Rubiksmoose

15:34

@Rubiksmoose It's certainly not ideal, but it's what we have and it works more-or-less.

GcL

@Rubiksmoose That's the whack on the nose training method. I think that works well for systems where the rules don't change. E.g. never pee on the carpet.

AncientSwordRage

@GcL Thats fine, our rules don't change much...until they do

Rubiksmoose

And I do tend to think that our approach to correction hopefully feels less like a nose-whack and more like a teacherly-correction. We try to only whack people when they do something so blatantly wrong that it is hurting the community (and should have been obvious) or when they repeatedly do stuff they have been told not to.

Someone_Evil

@GcL We don't punish, we talk with. As for rules changeing, we can't really do better than expect our engaged users to keep an eye on meta if they want to be on the top of things, at least any stuff that gets features (which would be anything important anyhow). It's the best tool we have for that

GcL

@Rubiksmoose That's making assumptions about how the recipients view the close/comment/revert/whatever actions. Also, some people don't like teacherly correction. Difficult to know the tone with which others read things.

Rubiksmoose

15:42

@GcL Sure, that is indeed why I couched it as "hopefully feels". Unfortunately as Someone_Evil said, we can only do the best we can given the tools we have. Undoubtedly, some users will perceive even the slightest correction to be aggressive. And some users will refuse to accept any correction even when hard action is taken.

RevenantBacon

I think that not having a both easy-to-access list and comprehensive list of policies is detrimental, especially to new users, who are unlikely to even be aware that we have what amounts to a second site that solely exists to have discussions about site rules

Rubiksmoose

If you can think of a way to do and maintain such a list in a useful way, I'm all ears :)

GcL

I suggest a web page that is linked to.

Preferably from someplace like the tour or help center or somewhere I could navigate without having to know the specific search term to punch in.

RevenantBacon

@Rubiksmoose YEAH! Like that one guy who always formats my posts properly! He's the worst! /s

Mark Wells

"Welcome to RPG.SE. Please take the tour, and also read the 10,000-word list of rules at (external site)."

AncientSwordRage

15:46

in theory collections/articles might work? But they're team only which is unhelpful

Rubiksmoose

@RevenantBacon But to be clear, I think it would be impossible to have a comprehensive list of stuff. Especially when you start to get into community norms. And as soon as you portray something as comprehensive, you'll get people fighting back when some niche thing isn't listed and thus wasn't incorrect because it wasn't in the "master list of all rules"

AncientSwordRage

@RevenantBacon there are people who genuinely feel that way.

GcL

@Rubiksmoose Doesn't have to be all of them. Just the ones you expect people to know about and follow.

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon I love waking up in the morning having already hit rep cap because V2Blast reformatted a bunch of my posts and bumped them to the top.

RevenantBacon

@AncientSwordRage I know, that's why I was trying to make sure I wasn't taken seriously

Rubiksmoose

15:48

@GcL That is essentially what our FAQ already is though.

GcL

@AncientSwordRage Sometimes me... when using a screen reader... and people are screwing with the headings so that jumping to content is a colossal pain in the butt.

RevenantBacon

@ThomasMarkov Ya, he fixed up one of mine yesterday. I wasn't aware that you could do some of the formatting he did, I thought the markdown would have been to restrictive.

AncientSwordRage

@RevenantBacon it's easy for people to conflate 'not being taken seriously' with mocking, unfortunately

GcL

@Rubiksmoose The faq is rpg.stackexchange.com/help ?

AncientSwordRage

@GcL sounds really painful

RevenantBacon

15:50

@AncientSwordRage Is that a PUN

GcL

@AncientSwordRage Actually, I highly recommend using a screen reader for browsing for a couple weeks. It will open your eyes to a lot of accessibility issues.

AncientSwordRage

@RevenantBacon Pretty Unambiguously Not

Rubiksmoose

30

Q: FAQ Index for Role-playing Games Stack Exchange

For frequently-asked questions common to all sites in the network, see FAQ for Stack Exchange sites. For official guidance from Stack Exchange, visit the Help Center. Asking questions How do we ask and answer subjective questions? What are the citation expectations of answers on RPG Stack Exch...

support faq

AncientSwordRage

@GcL I keep meaning to. I work on websites, so I'm aware of a few accessibility things

RevenantBacon

@AncientSwordRage No, cuz screen readers read the screen out loud... sound... sounds pretty...

AncientSwordRage

15:51

to be clear, I mean people messing with headers sounds painful

RevenantBacon

Wait, did I just get whooshed?

GcL

@Rubiksmoose Should probably link to that from the help page. I wouldn't think to go to a site, find a subdomain that is a weird shadow copy, and punch in "faq" into the search bar.

AncientSwordRage

Rubiksmoose

@GcL I think that may be in the works with @Someone_Evil's attempts to get something useful in our help section header :)

RevenantBacon

@AncientSwordRage That doesn't seem right...

Rubiksmoose

15:54

@RevenantBacon The search was in the help center FWIW

AncientSwordRage

@RevenantBacon what happened? Our obvious statements have engendered disillusion?

GcL

@Rubiksmoose Yeah. Just went to mea, searched "faq" and the one you linked to did not come up.

Rubiksmoose

@GcL Yup! Isn't it great? It's very hard to find.

GcL

@Rubiksmoose Maybe leave it permanently "featured on meta". At least that wouldn't require knowing about the specific page in order to find it.

Rubiksmoose

Could be an option, though we have limited slots for featured posts.

Someone_Evil

15:57

We'd also have to refeature it once a month

Rubiksmoose

And that

kviiri

The stack... doesn't exactly serve us again it seems x)

GcL

@Rubiksmoose If someone wanted to know what else is hot on meta, they could just ask ;/ /S

Rubiksmoose

@GcL hahaha

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon I think we can clean comments under my illusionists bacers answer.

AncientSwordRage

16:04

> these bracers [...] enabled her to create multiple minor illusions at once.

I don't think that means everyone can do that?

Thomas Markov

> It is up to the DM to determine if this particular text applies only to the legendary creator of the bracers, or to anyone that wears them.

I think we need a better title for this question, but Im not sure how to phrase it.

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov How 'bout that?

Thomas Markov

@Someone_Evil perfect.

Is there a way to locally make the site look like this on my machine?

Or similarly, why doesnt it always look that because its incredible.

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov Time travel, I think

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov I failed my comprehension check

GcL

16:19

@ThomasMarkov How much work do you want to do? You could grease monkey the page if you're running firefox.

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose thanks for the edit

I still remember me and a good friend singing that song, apropos of nothing at the same time together

I need to figure out which answer to accept here

Rubiksmoose

@AncientSwordRage No problem :)

@AncientSwordRage I had no idea he wrote it before hand. That's impressive.

Thomas Markov

@AncientSwordRage Personally, I'd go with smbailey's answer. I like the logic of it.

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose IT'S CRAZY

@ThomasMarkov same, but that feels like an oversight of the authors

I still can barely believe that disease is not a real thing

contagion says you become poisoned for crying out loud

@Rubiksmoose what made you look it up?

Mark Wells

16:53

@AncientSwordRage isn't contagion also not contagious?

AncientSwordRage

@MarkWells yes

and useless

Mark Wells

second worst spell in the game

AncientSwordRage

I was thinking of writing a question like "Would it step on the Undying's toes if there was a warlock invocation that granted 1/day or 1/rest use of contagion" but then when I read it I was like....eh.

Mark Wells

no, wait, I'm forgetting Goodberry

AncientSwordRage

@MarkWells Goodberry + Life domain (?) is epic

one of the subclasses grants extra healing per healing you do

Thomas Markov

16:55

@MarkWells Our druid has gotten lots of mileage out of goodberry.

AncientSwordRage

> Disciple of Life
> Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell’s level.

Thomas Markov

@AncientSwordRage combine with beacon of hope.

> For the duration, each target has advantage on Wisdom saving throws and death saving throws, and regains the maximum number of hit points possible from any healing.

GcL

@ThomasMarkov That is my experience as well. Very much cuts down on the weight of food they party would otherwise have to travel with.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov Goodberry is just 1hp though

Mark Wells

@GcL that's one of the problems with it, yes

Thomas Markov

16:58

@AncientSwordRage oops, I was thinking it was 1d4.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov that was a previous edition?

I only know that because Jaheira could cast Goodberry in Baldur's Gate

Also my only play through was with a druid...

GcL

@MarkWells I don't mind that. Most parties I played with or DM for end up with a cart, pack animals, and laborer henchmen. Paying a whopping 1 gp/day for 5 travel laborers is usually worth it just to not have to track overland encumbrance.

Rubiksmoose

@AncientSwordRage The song came up in my youtube feed and I saw a comment that said that so I searched for it on SE lol

GcL

Also, you can ask the players for a detail about the lives of the henchmen every session and they write themselves!

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose lol

RevenantBacon

17:31

@AncientSwordRage Definitely the one that states immunity to the spell. The entire spell is a disease effect, not just the max HP reduction. Damage type that causes the reduction is irrelevant

GcL

17:57

@AncientSwordRage I think linkassassin's answer is spot on.

The spell doesn't say creatures that are immune to disease are unaffected by this spell.

It does have a provision for them to not suffer the reduced max hp.

AncientSwordRage

@RevenantBacon there's nothing properly codified as a 'disease effect' though

RevenantBacon

@GcL That's because that's not how immunity works. Does fireball say that creatures that have immunity to fire are also immune to its damage? No

GcL

@RevenantBacon Does fireball do something other than fire damage?

RevenantBacon

I suppose "Disease Effect" is the wrong terminology

@GcL Does Harm do something other than "inflict the target with a virulent disease"?

GcL

If you were immune to piercing damage, thorn whip would still pull you.

Yes, it reduces the hit point max, and does necrotic damage.

RevenantBacon

18:02

@GcL because the pull isn't piercing damage.

GcL

Necrotic damage isn't disease.

RevenantBacon

@GcL which are both the direct result of the virulent disease it gives you

@GcL but it is the result of a disease

GcL

Then the pull is the result of the piercing damage.

Thomas Markov

...does the spell say something to that effect?

RevenantBacon

Negative, the pull is the result of the whip

AncientSwordRage

18:04

dndbeyond.com/spells/harm

GcL

Necrotic damage is a result of harm. So is disease.

AncientSwordRage

For reference

RevenantBacon

the piercing damage is the result of the thorns on the sire of the whip

@AncientSwordRage was just about to do that

GcL

@ThomasMarkov No. It's a list of effects. It does not say, "this disease causes necrotic damage."

@RevenantBacon what thorns?

RevenantBacon

@GcL isn't the spell called Thorn Whip? One would think that means it has both thorns and a whip

GcL

18:06

Oh thorn whip. derp

Keeping with everything in the spell follows as a result of the previous, the pull is a result of the thorns... which being piercing immune makes one immune to.

Thomas Markov

I dare one of you to ask this question about thorn whip on the main site.

RevenantBacon

@GcL Negative, as you are only immune to the damage not any other rider effects.

Thomas Markov

No, I double dog dare you

RevenantBacon

@ThomasMarkov Challenge accepted

GcL

It's just an analog for "are subsequent statements dependent on the previous?" I think if immunity to disease gives immunity to necrotic damage in harm then piercing immunity avoids the pull of thorn whip

Thomas Markov

18:10

@GcL That's gonna take some comparative analysis to actually confirm.

RevenantBacon

@GcL I think otherwise. This is how I see it. Immunities only make you immune to what they say they do eg immunity to piercing damage only gives you imunity to the damage. Immunity to disease gives you immunity to the disease and all effects therof, as in: you can't contract the disease in the first place, so you can't suffer any ill (or beneficial, theoretically) effects from it.

And as I see it, the entirety of the Harm spell is the result of giving someone a "virulent disease"

GcL

@RevenantBacon So being immune to piercing means you still get pierced, but don't take damage?

Like fire immune creatures get burned, but just don't take damage?

AncientSwordRage

@GcL is there a spell description that days you make fire, but it deals radiant damage?

smbailey

I would disagree on the thorn whip example being the same. The piercing damage is not the cause of the pull, it is a result of the whip, so immunity would only make you immune to the actual damage. In the case of harm, the damage and lasting effect are both results of the disease.

@GcL to be clear though, you think the spell causes "a virulent disease" and "necrotic damage" separately, not necrotic damage as a result of the virulent disease?

Rubiksmoose

Just a gentle note: stars in chat should really be used for noteworthy things (significant or funny) - something you'd want someone to see in the sidebar and would still be interesting enough to check out a couple days later. Try not to use starring to "like" too many minor things. :)

5

Thomas Markov

18:21

@Rubiksmoose Sorry bout that.

Rubiksmoose

No worries! I wasn't trying to call anybody out, just trying to keep the starboard moderately sane ;-)

RevenantBacon

@GcL Maybe. If the creature with immunity were a slime, say, then yes, it definitely gets pierced, but wouldn't take damage, because piercing it doesn't actually do anything that would harm it. If it were instead an adamantium turtle construct, that is immune just because its armor is impenetrable, then I don't think it would get pierced

@AncientSwordRage Sacred Flame?

"Flame-like radiance descends on a creature"

Why do people keep editing the Italics out of my title? rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/174328/…

Someone_Evil

Because markdown doesn't work in q titles

AncientSwordRage

@RevenantBacon not the clincher is that you get immunity to fire damage not 'flames*

So maybr not the best analogue

RevenantBacon

@Someone_Evil huh, it was displaying for me. is it messed up in other browsers?

Someone_Evil

18:32

What browser are you using (and are you using any userscripts)?

kviiri

Lol yeah my entire star board save for pins is from the last three hours

Someone_Evil

And I don't know why it should be browser specific as that should be handled server-side

Rubiksmoose

@RevenantBacon AFAIK this is not a browser thing. SE simply doesn't support it at all. So something strange is going on... might be a userscript as Someone_Evil suggested.

RevenantBacon

@Someone_Evil Chrome, and no

I think I know what it was though

It will show the markdown taking effect in the preview which is what i was going by. after taking a look at it, it wasn't utilizing the markdown once posted.

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon I dont even see titles in preview...

RevenantBacon

18:41

Hold on a minute, let me try something.

Before I do, will anyone likely be upset if I post something as testing and then take it down a few minutes later?

Like This is a test, please ignore

Rubiksmoose

@RevenantBacon Shouldn't be an issue. You could try on Meta if you wanted to be super non-disruptive

I've done tests there before

smbailey

2

This is how I see the Harm vs Thorn Whip question.

If you're immune to disease, you're immune to everything below it, but being immune to the piercing damage of Thorn Whip doesn't confer immunity to the pull.

Thomas Markov

That's perfect.

So many good diagrams in chat today.

And by so many, I mean two.

smbailey

My next character will be immune to whips

RevenantBacon

@smbailey This is also how I see it.

Maybe I'm going crazy. I just ran my test in Meta, markdown didn't work in title. Unfortunately, I'm also 100% positive I saw the words Thorn Whip in italics in the title of my post at least once, but now I can't seem to replicate.

Rubiksmoose

18:49

@RevenantBacon Weird!

RevenantBacon

RevenantBacon will remember that

smbailey

Is there a meta for how to reference spells in titles? Like always capitalize and precede with the word "spell"?

RevenantBacon

@smbailey I dunno, should probably always capitalize at least though, it is a proper name.

GcL

@smbailey Now do frostbite and cold immunity

Rubiksmoose

@smbailey Not really. We don't enforce any particular style here as long as it is widely understandible.

We do have some guidelines though digs

18

Q: Is there a style guide for posts?

I understand editing questions for clarity, but is there a style guide somewhere for Questions and Answers, detailing things like "These things should be italic, these should be bolded, capitalized these powers but not these in references, etc."? I'd like to have some reference so that I can form...

discussion faq formatting

Someone_Evil

18:56

Isn't there one specific to 5e stuff?

Well there's

6

Q: How should we format spell names?

Should spell names be capitalized and/or italicized? I've seen examples of both: An example of capitalizing a spell name (command -> Command) — How does the Staff of the Python work? An example of the opposite editing (Arcane Lock -> arcane lock) — What mundane means can overcome Arcane Lock? ...

discussion editing

and

53

Q: What is the proper way to style references to D&D game elements?

(Preface: I'm not looking to establish an official formatting style we, on this stack, must adhere to. This is for my own personal writing consistency when writing on the topic of 5e.) I've been doing some writing on the topic of 5th edition in my spare time, and have run into a few instances wh...

dnd-5e publishing

which a lot of users like to adhere to

Something about consistency of style helping clarity

smbailey

@GcL Frostbite would essentially be the same flowchart as thorn whip. The disadvantage is caused by the spell's "numbing frost". You are immune to the cold damage, but not all effects of the spell.

The reason it's different for harm is because the disease is the top-level effect.

RevenantBacon

19:16

So the general gist I get from those Meta posts are that styling is irrelevant unless there could be confusion on whether they are referring to a spell (as in, say light, or Light)

Someone_Evil

Or more commonly shield vs shield. It's not necessary, but is useful for legibility and there are certainly sentences where marking out the spell (and other) names help readability a lot and so often gets edited in if not there already

And ideally edited alongside other fixes. Just italicizing a spell name usually fall under Too Trivial (though there's a lot of human judgement in that term)

smbailey

To be clear, as a DM I would definitely rule that something like frostbite has no effect on a white dragon for example, but RAW the dragon would only be immune to the cold damage portion of the spell.

AncientSwordRage

@smbailey I think that's a fair ruling

@smbailey weekdays your personal take on Harm?

smbailey

19:35

@AncientSwordRage I would rule the same as the answer I wrote, it's explicitly called a disease so disease immunity would apply.

It's not like players with disease immunity get too many opportunities to flaunt that ability anyways.

AncientSwordRage

@smbailey I just put two and two together

Do you think your diagram would help in your answer?

smbailey

Maybe, maybe not. It's just a visualization of my bolded statement "Both the damage and the reduced hit point maximum are the result of this virulent disease..."

Thomas Markov

19:59

Hope you like reading about The Dark Eye

Transcript for