TRPG General Chat

Ben

00:00

Some* are better than others

AncientSwordRage

But I mean, do any classes features in 5e rely on it?

Ben

Not really? Since the skills are universal there is no skill that a class "relies" on, it's more situational.

AncientSwordRage

@Ben that's true, I just like the idea of a character who has lots of acrobatics involved, and there doesn't seem to be that option?

Yuuki

@AncientSwordRage Not unless you want to go play Pathfinder. Canny Mongoose was one of the fun Rogue builds I liked.

Someone_Evil

@AncientSwordRage What form are you looking for the acrobatics in?

V2Blast

00:07

BTW:

Swen Vincke and the Baldur's Gate 3 team at Larian Studios did an AMA on Reddit earlier today.

AncientSwordRage

00:20

@Someone_Evil ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Adeptus

00:34

Monk & rogue are more acrobatic-ish than other classes, I think

Thief's Second-Story Work ability, for example

Uncanny Dodge, Evasion...

Shalvenay

01:54

hey there @Joshua

Joshua

I managed to misread this question as rpg.stackexchange.com/q/166199/22420 as what happens if the warlock manages to kill the otherworldly entity. With 17 wizard levels, ...

Hey Shalvenay ...

nitsua60

@Ben There might be a little exception there for rogues, since one of the qualifiers for SA is to have advantage, and one of the ways to get advantage is to be hidden, and a rogue (once they've Cunning Action) can Hide as a bonus action, and the Hide action explicitly calls for a Dexterity (Stealth) check....

→ 1 message moved to Not a bar, but plays one on TV

Joshua

@Shalvenay: A theorem. 1) The abyss has enough souls to hold their bodies together when whey would explode if planeshifted back to the material plane. 2) The finiteness of the material plane permits only a finite number of souls to exist. Therefore, the abyss does not fill its plane.

Shalvenay

@Joshua lol

@Joshua somehow, I'm not sure if 2) quite holds

Someone_Evil

There are a few other examples of class features using skill checks, but not many. Inquisitive (Rogue) uses Wisdom (Insight) to guaranty sneak attacks against a creature (if it fails to contest with Charisma (Deception))

Joshua

01:59

@Shalvenay: 2) holds because there is night.

Anyway, I prefer the model of each planet has its own abyss on the same plane. I'd call it the abyssal plane but that's already taken.

If you think D&D is unbalanced, try Harry Potter. They teach the most dangerous of all magics to first year students without a care.

Ben

03:32

@Joshua [cough] d4chan [cough... cough... coughing fit]

KorvinStarmast

03:52

@Axoren Oh yes they were. Beautiful Balloon was a big hit of theirs. Up Up and Away was very popular, by 5th dimension, when I was in junior high

@Axoren youtube.com/watch?v=HfxqQmWtGNM

V2Blast

04:30

D&D Beyond's player-focused app - including character management functionality - is currently in alpha testing for current subscribers (whether Hero or Master Tier).

3

Adeptus

@KorvinStarmast I remember a version of Up Up And Away was used in TAA airline ads in the 80s (and maybe earlier)

Hot RPG Questions

7

Q: Can you use an action/attack granted by a spell while in wildshape?

Some spells like Investiture of Flame, Investiture of Ice, Investiture of Wind, Investiture of Stone and Dragon's Breath have effects that grant a damaging spell-like Action. Is it possible to cast the spell on yourself and hold concentration then wildshape and use those Actions? I'm aware that t...

Adeptus

@V2Blast Yay! Something that's been asked for since launch...

V2Blast

They were originally planning on adding it to the current app, but decided to leave that as a compendium reader and instead develop separate apps focused on the DM experience and the player experience. This is the latter of those :)

Adeptus

I can see pro's & con's to separating it like that. I guess it lets you only install the parts you want.

I've got some Play Store credit (earned from Google Opinions) but I never have enough for a whole book in the Compendium app. If the character builder lets me buy piecemeal like the web version does... they may get a lot of my money, a little at a time...

V2Blast

04:50

will definitely make more sense to allow piecemeal content purchases once the player app is available for everyone

Hot RPG Questions

06:30

5

Q: How does AC scale with character level?

In D&D 3.5, I know that base attack bonus scales with level. How does AC increase over levels to meet it? I know saves do, so there should be some kind of AC thing? Is it done more with HP, or is there something I'm missing?

dnd-3.5e character-advancement armor-class defense

Hot RPG Questions

09:40

10

Q: How can you make character creation simpler?

I DM for some players who aren’t that into the game. My question is this: can I somehow make Character creation less writing heavy, and quicker and simpler for my beginning players? Each player has had to make at least three different characters, due to a new game being started or character death...

dnd-5e gm-techniques character-creation new-players

Akixkisu

10:20

might want to add one of the links in this answer to the blacklist

doppelgreener

11:33

@Akixkisu we don't actually have that blacklist anymore. :(

kviiri

Welp. Decided to buy the 13th Age sourcebook.

I seldom buy things on a whim, but now... well, the opportunity was there.

doppelgreener

in good news that is somehow also bad news: we reached a point of simply nobody hitting that blacklist for so long that the system decided it was no longer needed and deleted it

i'll see if i can reinstate it though

Hot RPG Questions

6

Q: How is the magic within a sorcerer different from the magic permeating everything else such that they naturally cast spells and most do not?

The Raw Magic section (PHB 99) for the sorcerer states: Magic is a part of every sorcerer, suffusing body, mind, and spirit with a latent power that waits to be tapped. while the Weave of Magic lore (PHB 205) states: All existence is infused with magical power, and potential energy lies...

dnd-5e lore sorcerer

trogdor

@doppelgreener it can just,.... do that?

"screw you fleshbags, I'm not needed anymore so I'm retired now"

@kviiri I think it's worth it, 13th Age was very fun when I played it, I will say I only played it once though

like one session

not even a full campaign, but I think it was pretty good

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Hey, AIs want vacations too! ^_^
Sometimes they get fed up with needing to hang around . . .*needlessly*.

kviiri

11:44

@trogdor I... hope it will be good even if I play it only zero times x) if you know what I mean

Inspirational reading and that jazz.

trogdor

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica XD lol

@kviiri that's fair too, use it for what you use it for XD

doppelgreener

11:57

@trogdor apparently yes!

trogdor

I was wrong all along! Skynet is upon us! XD

doppelgreener

it makes sense: blacklists are a little bit expensive to check against. it's easy for a human to know when a blacklist is needed, but hard for a human to know when it's unnecessary. so you might as well have the system look out for pointless blacklist items and drop them.

it doesn't make as much sense in this specific case since we know there will never be a legitimate use of those domains for the next decade even if nobody's hit them recently

kviiri

@trogdor My counselor once told me: when you do something that was hard for any reason, reward yourself with a kind thought or occasionally a thing you want or a treat.

The book was the thing I wanted.

:>

trogdor

@kviiri nice

@doppelgreener ah so it has like, systems it is supposed to have built in to go "ok this hasn't been used, so now we can stop taxing those resources on the blacklist" ?

doppelgreener

@trogdor yep. it keeps track of the last date that blacklist item was actually hit, and if it's long enough ago, it drops it.

trogdor

12:02

fair enough I guess

doppelgreener

which is a great thing! when we first created that blacklist it was being hit pretty regularly, but then eventually our site went so long with nobody attempting to link to piracy sites that the system just decided the blacklist was obsolete.

... except, er, then we didn't have a blacklist anymore for the next time

trogdor

but yeah also,... we have some pretty persistent particular addresses that probably aren't going to stop spamming us, IE the like, vampire offers and the voodoo seers and love potion people XD

doppelgreener

still, it's a nice kind of problem to have. "people are linking to piracy on our site so rarely we have to back up the blacklist just in case the system thinks it's useless now!"

@trogdor oh, yeah, absolutely. though, that's not something this particular blacklist handles.

trogdor

ah ok XD

kviiri

@trogdor They say the Finnish education system is great an that but how come I can't get a PhD but some vampire guy is a doctor

trogdor

12:06

lol

doppelgreener

stack exchange sites have a built-in blacklist utility: it's things you simply can't write in your post. if you try to submit a post with that content... you just can't. the system tells you, hey, your post contains this stuff we don't allow, change it.

trogdor

oooh so people haven't been trying to put that stuff in posts then

that is pretty nice

doppelgreener

smoke detector (our spam bot) is handled by Charcoal, a totally separate organisation that'll scan posts after the fact, and which is 100% focused just on spam. since piracy sites like dndtools just never get linked in spam, that's not Charcoal's problem.

kviiri

Just a hunch, but I would guess that DnDBeyond greatly reduced the appeal of casual piracy for DnD.

That would fit the similar pattern with Spotify vs music piracy and Netflix vs movie piracy.

doppelgreener

I agree

@trogdor yeah exactly :)

Charcoal keeps its blacklist items forever (FOREVER) so that's not a problem with them

trogdor

12:09

ah that's good XD

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil I'm guessing the question could be formulated as "Can I make use of acrobatics during combat?"

Someone_Evil

@AncientSwordRage Yes, creatively. Class features which adds additional skill checks on top of the normal combat buts up against some of the design ideas for 5e

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil that makes perfect sense

and yet I want to do something creative and mechanical with it still

RandomDudeWithAKnife

13:19

Hallo

Bye

goodguy5

okay

nitsua60

Since the CiViD19 pandemic is sensitive and stressful to many, and sparks a lot of discussion, kindly try to keep conversations about it in the Coronavirus chat room.

15

RandomDudeWithAKnife

13:52

Im back.

I finished session 2 of out of the abyss yesterday.

JohnP

14:09

@RandomDudeWithAKnife If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

RandomDudeWithAKnife

b@JohnP I am the abyss

goodguy5

What if the real abyss was the friends we made along the way

JohnP

@RandomDudeWithAKnife Oddly, I just changed the name/slogan of my self defense teaching business to something similar.

RandomDudeWithAKnife

14:24

What if the abyss is us, and we are the abyss

AncientSwordRage

14:35

@RandomDudeWithAKnife what if the abyss is the friends we met along the way?

RandomDudeWithAKnife

@AncientSwordRage what if we never made friends?

AncientSwordRage

@RandomDudeWithAKnife the thing is, if thats true we have a lack of friends... and abyss of negative friendship...that is the abyss

Yuuki

@nitsua60 what about poop coffee?

no wait, that's civet 19

goodguy5

14:56

What about those stealthy group of 20, after they lost one?
Or is that Covert 19?

Yuuki

They retired and started dressing up in bright colors, calling themselves Vivid 19.

nitsua60

@Yuuki Not going to lie: that was a pretty strange inbox notification.

=D

Yuuki

@nitsua60 Not any stranger than seeing a flock of ravens outside your window. No wait, that's 19 corvids.

goodguy5

It'll help out with those 19 groups of witches.

Wait, that's 19 Covins

doppelgreener

15:37

@nitsua60 Thank you

nitsua60

Thank @kviiri--I plagiarized it from them in the NAB =)

RandomDudeWithAKnife

hello btw

nitsua60

16:02

Ahoy. (sidles back from the knife nervously)

RandomDudeWithAKnife

Pulls out a whetstone and begins sharpening my dagger while glaring at nitsua60

*The sound of the knife running against the stone intensifies

Yuuki

@RandomDudeWithAKnife why does your knife have feet?

2

I suppose so it can compete in a footrace against a stone.

RandomDudeWithAKnife

16:21

@Yuuki the knife doesn't have feet, the stone does.

AncientSwordRage

@RandomDudeWithAKnife well that jokes got legs

RandomDudeWithAKnife

@AncientSwordRage no, the stone does

lol

My dnd character finding a revolver: the must be one of those fancy crossbows

goodguy5

Is there a way to make a revolver crossbow that's as good as or better than a repeating crossbow?

RandomDudeWithAKnife

@goodguy5 that is called an assault rifle

goodguy5

disagree

RandomDudeWithAKnife

16:26

bet lol

goodguy5

I bet you i internet points

RandomDudeWithAKnife

I bet you 300 robux

goodguy5

I'll bet you all my robux

RandomDudeWithAKnife

how much you got

goodguy5

0

RandomDudeWithAKnife

16:32

same

goodguy5

Great, so we're both all in

RandomDudeWithAKnife

yep

actually, I bet you double that

and a scroll of summon lesser demons 9th level

MikeQ

I bet you 2000 neopoints

RandomDudeWithAKnife

I bet you this stone with feet

*it has 4 of them

Carcer

@MikeQ a paltry sum

you couldn't even buy a half-decent sword with that

Akixkisu

16:50

I now almost have as many votes cast as helpful flags - feels weird.

goodguy5

are you on the parenting stack?

Are you a mother flagger?

btw, @Akixkisu how did that Vagabond game ever go?

@MikeQ What if it's a ghost cop?

Akixkisu

@goodguy5 I think I flag appropriately. It went great, your guide was very helpful (even if it was a once and done thing).

goodguy5

^_^

Akixkisu

@goodguy5 I don't know how people usually read answers/questions, but I always read the comments. So naturally I flag a lot of things that were edited into the a/q.

Though some comment sections are just a mess rpg.stackexchange.com/a/166149/44723

A nice feature would be if you could directly invite a user who is showing signs of prolonging the discussion into a chat that imports the previous messages.

Instead of only making that available after some threshold.

JohnP

17:08

@Akixkisu You can do that by pinging them and adding a link to chat directly. Otherwise the system will also prompt for it after a certain amount of messages, and you can always flag the comment thread for moderator attention and they can move it to a chat room.

Akixkisu

@JohnP yes, but I'd be really nice if instead I could click a button.

If you @ the user, then only their and your messages are moved.

The rest of the log isn't.

nitsua60

@Akixkisu (and we thank you for that!)

@Akixkisu Seconding @JohnP, a custom flag that says "from here on it's pretty chatty; I'd love to keep helping, can you chatify the thread?" is very useful and is very easy to act on.

The Oracle

0

Q: Is poorly balanced homebrew considered "low-effort"?

It's fairly well known that homebrew is a rather... contentious topic on this stack. From what I've noticed during my short time here, it looks like homebrew questions get a significantly higher number of downvotes compared to other questions. While I understand why people generally dislike home...

discussion

AncientSwordRage

@TheOracle that's a good question

Mathgeek

17:28

It's an awkward and scary question too - I homebrew content but only ever house-rule when the rules are either literally broken or if a think is obvious/should have a ruling but doesn't

AncientSwordRage

18:50

@Mathgeek hopefully not too scary. The asker seems in favour of keeping them

I need to write up my College of Tattoos subclass, I could then ask for feedback here

Axoren

My group still won't forgive me for the demon foot soldier pun I unleashed on them.

Nor have they forgiven me Isekai'ing them.

Mathgeek

I play Pathfinder, and I had the most wonderful stupid build sprung upon me the other day

Yuuki

@Mathgeek If it doesn't pick up the Spring Attack feat, you are legally required to change your verb usage.

Mathgeek

In the spectacularly broken Mythic Tier system (super late game stuff), there is a branch you can take that gives you excellent acrobatic abilities

So my player showed me a build

Yuuki

Ooo, is it the Canny Mongoose?

Mathgeek

19:02

"So, this ability has a few restrictions."

"You have to run for 1 continuous minute."

"Then take an acrobatics check."

"You jump off the ground and jump [your roll] miles, with a bit of inaccuracy."

"So I'm building a Mermaid."

Movespeed 5ft/move action means a total run speed of 20 feet per round

200 feet per minute, just about half a mile an hour of wind-up flopping

Until one pelvic thrust sends you SOARING. You travel, in the air, A MILE A ROUND. That's just short of the SPEED OF SOUND.

Half a mile an hour of flopping, less than the average human crawl speed

Followed by a little jump and BAM

Literally a flying fish zooming through the heavens at the speed of sound

Just imagine seeing a fish slap itself onto the concrete, slowly making progress towards a cliff

Axoren

My favorite Mythic build was always the Quicken Mythic Ill Omen and Misfortune Hex combo. Enemy rolls 4 times and takes the worst on d20 rolls, no save.

Mathgeek

Before the glint in its eye sends it barrelling at 600 miles per hour into the fucking yeetosphere

Oh, you're talking double disadvtange builds

About 90% of people get those interactions wrong

And it feels to make you might have as well?

Yuuki

@Mathgeek they failed their double disadvantage rolls

Mathgeek

Double disadvantage is actually 3 dice, not 4 in PF

You don't nest abilities, even if they say "roll 2 and take the best"

Did you have a third one?

Axoren

@Mathgeek No, this was covered in an errata. Mystic Ill Omen is roll 3 times and take the worst and Misfortune is a separate kind of ability so it applies to the result of Ill Omen

Mathgeek

19:08

OH

Ill Omen is 3

Axoren

MYTHIC is 3

Mathgeek

That explains it

Axoren

Normally, it's 2

Mathgeek

Yeyeye

Axoren

60% chance to get at most a 4.

With no save.

Mathgeek

19:09

Uh, hexes have saves?

Axoren

Misfortune doesn't, iirc

Mathgeek

time to aon this stuff

MikeQ

The witch's misfortune hex requires a will save. Ill Omen has no save.

Akixkisu

This conversation reminds me that I should recommend people to read Alcatraz Versus the Evil Librarians more than I do.

Mathgeek

Also, on the question @Powerdork asked about mythic parallelism; yes, it's a parallel system, but Mythic is OP busted as shit so are only ever introduced late-ish game. level 1 + 1 Mythic is about as powerful as a squishy Level 5 char

Axoren

19:10

Okay, that's what it was, Quicken Mythic Ill Omen first

So that they fail on the save for Misfortune

Mathgeek

>on the next roll

Powerdork

@Mathgeek Language.

Mathgeek

So you lose one

I'm sorry, is there a profanity rule in here?

MikeQ

Sometimes?

Powerdork

Not to my knowledge, but better safe than sorry?

Axoren

19:12

No, I guess it had to be in the other order.

There was a way to make Misfortune always hit, and I don't remember what

I had a very tight build for it.

Mathgeek

Removing the save on hexes is stupid

Axoren

I know Evil Eye works even on a save

Mathgeek

Because Misfortune is NOT the one to take if you can unsave it lol

Axoren

Normally, you'd use Evil Eye

Mathgeek

You take the sleep one

Axoren

19:13

Doesn't work on Elves

Mathgeek

Oh well?

Hexes dont work on Constructs at all!

Axoren

Kind of a big deal in some campaigns.

Also, on undead

Mathgeek

Depends

MikeQ

You sure? Misfortune isn't mind-affecting.

Mathgeek

Take a level in a certain necro bard

Axoren

19:14

@MikeQ Sleep

Mathgeek

Your mind effecting non-spell effects now work on undead!

Sleep we mean

Axoren

I feel like you're better off using that benefit on undead allies

You already went deep enough into Bard to be an AoE buff machine

Why not ditch being a Hex Witch and be a necromancer?

Mathgeek

Necromancer isn't a class - if you mean Necro Bard

then eh its ok I guess

Axoren

Necromancer as a role.

And I'm pretty sure Necromancer is an archetype for some class somewhere.

Mathgeek

I actually don't believe so - that and Warlock are suspiciously missing

Axoren

19:21

It's been a while since I played the inferior system. Now, being a necromancer is so easy, we have a Gentleman's rule that they're only allowed in small numbers or for large-scale manual labor.

Mathgeek

>inferior system

nani

Axoren

Been converted to 5e for a while.

Powerdork

Necromancer is the wizard that specializes in necromancy; in 3.5 it was more formal but Pathfinder decided it was better as "wizard (necromancer)" in the build stub than just "necromancer"

Axoren

Pathfinder has too much content bloat.

Powerdork

I find it has options.

Axoren

19:24

It got to the point where our in real life games were more like negotiating peace between countries rather than rolling dice.

There was so much time just figuring which +1s were available and it was always close.

MikeQ

I'm compiling some rules for PF1 games. There are 39 classes to account for, in addition to several billion archetypes.

Mathgeek

>too much bloat content

oh no, my game has too much game

;p

Axoren

You can literally make Madoka Magicka and King Arthur go on a quest for the One Piece on Alderaan. That's pretty neat, maybe, but needing to have 30 different books to take a single turn is not.

It got pretty bad.

Powerdork

Why 30 different books?

Axoren

Because each character was made from various bits and pieces across all content, none of which was balanced against each other and none-of-which was aware of funky interactions across eachother.

MikeQ

19:27

Well, resolving even baseline rules confusion usually involves hopping between the core rulebook, GM guide, and a few others. Then the prewritten campaign books draw from a bunch of other books, and often you need to pause gameplay to look up additional rules.

Axoren

We tried running straight core or Core+1

And it was a disaster.

Powerdork

Write things down on character sheets and quick references

Mathgeek

On the other hand, there's a handful of online compendia to make it easy

Axoren

@Powerdork Where's your 10-ft-long scroll you're using as a character sheet?

Mathgeek

Like, oh man, idk that spell, lemme check AON or the SRD

Powerdork

19:28

@Axoren Pastebin.com

Mathgeek

what lmfao, character sheets are two pages unless you're a spellcaster

Axoren

For an in-person game? Disruptive.

MikeQ

Sure, looking up one thing at a time is easy. The problem is when you have multiple interacting rulesets for a given situation, and have to look up how they resolve.

Mathgeek

What? No? I

Axoren

If turns take longer than a minute, it's pointless.

Mathgeek

19:29

>multiple interacting rulesets

The cool thing about PF is that it all operates on a very consistent ruleset

Axoren

We could be playing Gurps and it would be more streamlined

>_>

Mathgeek

DND has those kinds of layering issues, but PF is like MTG that if you know the rules (much easier than MTG, ofc) it's intuitive

MikeQ

There are tons of contradictions between rules in PF. And many places where it says "check some other book"

But it's not intuitive

Mathgeek

What's one contradiction?

Because all the "contradictions" I see are people who don't know the "specific > general" rule

Axoren

Let me go to my Paizo Forums bookmark folder for "things that still need eratas"

Give me a minute

MikeQ

19:30

Spell preparation, for one. It's defined in several places. There are times when someone mentions some rule that isn't in a class description, or the spellcasting rules, so a person who hasn't memorized every rule book won't know about it.

Powerdork

Unarmed strikes' interactions with natural weapons

Mathgeek

legit I'd love that bookmark folder lmao

Unarmed Strikes act as manufactured weapons for the purpose of natural attack count

Unarmed Strikes are not natural attacks if you have IUS, and are improvised simple weapons if not, still not a nat attack unless explicitly granted as so

Axoren

This is one of the pieces of the Bookmark folder

I had a subfolder for cavaliers

rpgbot.net/pathfinder/errata

Mathgeek

Oh yeah I lot RPG Bot, but like 80% of those are "this thing isn't as good as I want it to be"

Axoren

Paizo keeps logging me out while I look through my post history, lol

Mathgeek

19:37

And most of the other ones are typoes and minor level errata that make sense without it

Axoren

I'll get back to it in a second, but there was some crazy niche stuff about Attacks of Opportunities and being on a hill when bullrushed.

nitsua60

@Powerdork You were right--thanks for chiming in.

MikeQ

Errata aside, there's a bloat of additional content from expansion books, and it gets cumbersome to remember what everything does or how all the mechanics interact with each other. Most of that content doesn't even show up (such as bad archetypes or situational feats), but that just makes it harder to find other content.

Mathgeek

Also a lot of these are outdated with Unchained

But no - the books are no longer the go-to to play PF

the same way how reading the reference documents in Magic is not how you learn the rules, buying the books is not how you play PF

Reading the online compendia are the official way to

And is also where they issued a lot of their errata

MikeQ

The complete rules for MTG are worth several textbooks. That's not intuitive. If it was intuitive, players could learn from the text on their cards or from word of mouth.

Mathgeek

19:41

Which they can

That's the point

MTG is intuitive bcause you learn from text and WoM

Axoren

15

Q: Does Pathfinder FAQ share the same problems as 3.5e FAQ?

According to many answers in the related question, D&D 3.5e FAQ has many content problems. Even though it is possible to make a mistake and think of it as an official ruling, it isn't one, so 3.5e FAQ is not a big problem. However, Pathfinder FAQ is RAW. Does it have the same problems as 3.5e F...

pathfinder-1e

Mathgeek

Nobody reads the rules compendium

MikeQ

Anyway, from a GM's perspective, all of the PF expansions make it tricky to track what the players bring to the table, or to answer questions when something obscure comes up in game

Mathgeek

On the other hand, the big benefit of PF over DND is exhaustive rules

It's the "negative" but also the positive

Exact rules on every thing means DM Fiat is a lot less important

MikeQ

e.g. I'm currently playing the tech-themed Iron Gods path, with very experienced players, and we frequently interrupt gameplay to consult several different technology expansion books whenever we encounter new tech in game

Mathgeek

19:45

Tech is ridiculous and rare - it's not things people access often because it's an alternate rule system

Axoren

We had a player in an online game sneak in Path of War, which is 3rd party content. We honestly couldn't tell until the player was going off-legal until we saw what he was doing at level 3.

Not intentionally, just accidentally went onto the wrong part of d20pfsrd

Mathgeek

I have a 5e question on this same angle then, because if I'm not mistaken, as per official text, falling 200 feet into a net or water or snow is the same as landing on concrete

Because it doesn't specify

But like

PF has a specific ruling on abso-effing-lutely everything

MikeQ

Yes, having a more granular and comprehensive system can be useful at times. My point is that it's cumbersome long term.

Axoren

Luckily, you only fall 150 ft. per round, so you have 12 seconds to think about it.

Mathgeek

so you won't have contradictory rulings from different DMs about most rules

>150 feet per round

Someone_Evil

19:48

@Axoren That fall speed is from which system?

Mathgeek

Wait, what? I was like 90% sure 5e doesn't have rulings on that

nitsua60

@Mathgeek Have you had a DM rule that falling 200' into a net (designed to catch people falling 200', presumably?) is the same as hitting concrete?

Mathgeek

No - but I've had DMs tell me it's
- Half Damage
- No Damage
- A Dex check to avoid taking damage
- A dex check to avoid taking *most* of the damage
- Not necessarily possible, since your falling body would deal damage to the net and we need to roll damage for that first

nitsua60

So what's your question?

MikeQ

I believe the issue is that the system itself doesn't address it, thus the DM must make a ruling

Mathgeek

19:51

No question necessarily

That's the thing\

THAT is the issue

nitsua60

Oh, sorry. You said "I have a 5e question on the same angle."

Mathgeek

The point is that in Pathfinder, there's rulings for these specific things, but in 5e, it's a lot more "DM decides what happens, so your usefulness decides heavily on how your DM interprets a thing"

Yeah, I was providing a foil question about "things that are "contradictory" in 5e

related to the above discussion

nitsua60

I still don't see a question.

(Nor a contradiction, tbf.)

MikeQ

That's not really a foil. The contradictions are when PF's rules say that X works one way in one place, but in a different place (maybe a different book) the rules say that X works differently. And the player may not be aware of that.

Mathgeek

It was implied in the context - what is the rule?

The answer is "nobody knows, because there wasn't"

Phrased as a rhetorical question, but I guess I didn't exactly follow through on the rhetoric mb

For any "lmao rules contradict" one can point out for nine-year-old PF FAQs, there's three dozen situations Pathfinder explicitly covers that D&D has fiat written in for (at best)

So that is why it's not an "inferior" system. Different? 100%.

nitsua60

19:55

The rule is that the DM narrates the results, using dice if necessary. There are rules that form some boundaries to the situation, like it probably shouldn't be *more* than 20d6.
I just look at that list you made and think "yeah, any of those seem like the sort of thing that *could* happen if someone not a circus performer fell twenty stories. And which it is probably depends on a dozen interacting things that I, not a circus performer, don't (care to) know."

Mathgeek

And the fun thing is that that makes significant issues between player-DM-interaction

nitsua60

@Mathgeek I agree, without even knowing which you mean by "it." =D

Axoren

@Someone_Evil 5e.

Mathgeek

Pathfinder vs 5e

Axoren

And I was wrong about the amount, it's 500 ft.

MikeQ

19:57

Real campaign example: Player with a druid cast a long-duration spell before resting, and the GM and players couldn't agree on how they regained their spells. Druid class says they prepare spells, so the player thought they get all their spells back. But that's wrong. The actual rules for prepared spellcasting are defined in like 4 different places, and we had to consult all of them just to figure out this basic part of the character.

Axoren

"When you fall from a great height, you instantly descend up to 500 feet."

nitsua60

@Mathgeek "It" is singular. In that sentence I don't know which you're claiming is not inferior. But it doesn't matter, is my point =)

Someone_Evil

@Axoren Ahh, ok. Now we're on the same page

Mathgeek

In Pathfinder, that's explicitly outlines, Mike

Axoren

150, 500, same difference.

Mathgeek

19:57

Pathfinder is not inferior to 5e, not is it superior

They're different

Powerdork

Y'all play indie games some time.

nitsua60

@Axoren I reject this notion, and supplant it with my own

@Axoren Pretty close damage-wise, by rule =)

Mathgeek

In Pathfinder, you don't gain "spells", you gain "spell slots", which don't care about what spells are active unless explicitly stated otherwise.

Axoren

@nitsua60 I dare you to say Pythagorean Theorem at my table.

We use Square Fireballs

MikeQ

@Mathgeek I don't remember if that's true, but I do know that half of the table disagreed with that. Some said that spell slots cast before resting are not replenished. Either way, it wasn't what the player understood about their character.

Powerdork

19:59

@Mathgeek Wizards and other non-spontaneous casters prepare spells up to their daily limit; this is pivotal when distinguishing whether an option applies to wizards or sorcerers, based on whether it refers to "slots"

Mathgeek

Gimme a sec

nitsua60

@Axoren I'll do you one better:

29

A: A crossbowman fires three coloured bolts, then spends one minute searching the battlefield, which bolt(s) does he recover?

At the end of the battle, you can recover half your expended ammunition by taking a minute to search the battlefield. (PHB p.146) plus Whenever you divide a number in the game, round down if you end up with a fraction, even if the fraction is one-half or greater. (PHB p.7) equals one ...

Mathgeek

I can give you a provable ruling

nitsua60

> Which bolt? There are no rules covering this. Absent rules covering this I lean toward the boson vs. fermion model; my players don't want to hear me go on half-hour modern physics tangents, so they don't try to get sentimental with individual pieces of ammunition.

Mathgeek

50/50 odds on missed ones

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